Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 59

Thread: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

  1. #1
    amosharper
    Guest

    Default What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Hi,

    I'm not a vegan. I'm not a vegetarian. I do, however, refuse to eat the meat of an animal that has been kept in unsatisfactory conditions, i.e. factory farmed.

    I'd like to ask what, specifically, do you have against the killing - that is, quick, momentary killing - of animals?

    Thanks,

    Amos

  2. #2
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Winchester, England
    Posts
    3,265

    Default Re: Killing animals

    If I picked a random person off the street and killed them quickly what would you have against that?
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

  3. #3
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: Killing animals

    Some people think that vegans are only concerned with suffering, pain an animal cruelty, but that's a misunderstanding. You won't find a vegan meal anywhere containing meat from an animal that had a quick, momentary death.

    Why? For the same reason that you are against being killed - even if your death would be 'quick' and 'momentary'...

    Would you eat a cat or a dog - if it had not (using your words here... 'been kept in unsatisfactory conditions, i.e. factory farmed'. If not, why not? If yes, would you eat 'your own' dog under these conditions? If yes (I hope I won't get a yes...), would you eat a human under these conditions?

    You don't want to die, and you wouldn't accept being killed for food. The life of an animal as 'important' for itself, and maybe for other animals and humans, as your life is for you.

    Why do you eat meat? You are probably used to eating meat, and therefore like the taste. But there are hundreds of delicious meals in this world that you may like, but that in itself isn't a very valid reason to eat them, is it?
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  4. #4
    amosharper
    Guest

    Default Re: Killing animals

    [Edit: Text removed by moderator, because it's not relevant at a vegan forum].

    Quote Korn View Post
    You don't want to die, and you wouldn't accept being killed for food. The life of an animal as important for itself, and maybe for other animals and humans, as your life is for you.
    But is an animal really capable, past instinct, of making that decision? I realise the implications of making the decision for it are just as bad if not worse, but if you (and I'm not suggesting this would happen) took a baseball bat to an animal until it was within an inch of its life, it would still try to avoid death. Do the same to a human, and he/she'd probebly beg for you to kill him/her quickly.

    Quote Korn View Post
    Why do you eat meat? You are probably used to eating meat, and therefore like the taste. But there are hundreds of delicious meals in this world that you may like, but that in itself isn't a very valid reason to eat them, is it?
    Um... yes, I'd say it was!

  5. #5
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    But is an animal really capable, past instinct, of making that decision?
    That's not even relevant... unlike plants, animals show that they don't want to become food, be killed... and just like us, they normally have a belonging to other animals, their children. There's nothing reasonable that suggests that they are here to provide is with 'food' we we don't need... on the contrary, they are equipped with wings, speed and senses (sight, hearing, smell) perfectly fit for escaping a silly human trying to kill them. Sure, we can make tools to kill them (we are not physically equipped from nature to fly after birds, swim after fish or run after deer), but even if we can make tools, that doesn't mean that we need to make weapons. If they 'decide' to escape your gun by logic or intution makes no difference. And by the way, humans aren't know to eat other humans in a coma, even if they are not capable of making decisions or feeling pain.


    But there are hundreds of delicious meals in this world that you may like, but that in itself isn't a very valid reason to eat them, is it?
    Um... yes, I'd say it was!
    Well, if it is, there are hundreds of meals you can try without harming anyone else, yourself and the environment, and since you can't try them all, why not go for the non-authoritarian solutions - the meals you can get without making decisions about others' lives - first?

    We'll deactivate your membership now, because this is a site for vegans and people who want to go vegan, and you don't belong to that group. Good luck in finding out what feels right for you, and the more you at some point include what 'feels right' from an animal and environmental (and human health) perspective, the better!

    Hasta la vista!
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  6. #6
    amosharper
    Guest

    Smile Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    I'd better add that this is not a challenge to what you believe about how we should treat animals, it's just a question.

    Well, you're on one of two levels:

    1) You think we are on the same level as animals. We are animals, allbeit we can make decisions on a moral standpoint. If this is where you stand, then surely it is just as bad for, say, a leopard to kill a deer to eat as it is for a human to shoot and eat a duck? What about a lion which kills and eats a man?

    2) We are above, by means of placement or just intelligence, the animals. In this case, as superiors it is our decision whether to eat that plant or this cow, neither of which can really make a decision based on anything other than instinct. The cow eats grass not because it doesn't like the idea of stomping on the rabbit playing between its feet, but because it's fit for chewing and digesting grass.

    With that, and my respect, I bid thee adieu.

  7. #7
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote amosharper View Post
    Well, you're on one of two levels:

    1) You think we are on the same level as animals.
    I'm not talking about levels at all. I'm not thinking that a human on a 'higher level' (intellectually, a more loving person, a human more capable of making decisions or whatever) should make decisions about other humans' lives either. What you do is to create a hierarchy, were someone possibly can kill and eat others based on t heir levels or roles - I'm not.


    We are animals, allbeit we can make decisions on a moral standpoint.
    Whether we actually can, or if our decision is a sum of all our present and past influences isn't relevant for me either.... sorry.

    If this is where you stand, then surely it is just as bad for, say, a leopard to kill a deer to eat as it is for a human to shoot and eat a duck? What about a lion which kills and eats a man?
    The term 'vegan' doesn't cover what we/I think about animals eating animals or animals eating humans, but if you ask me, I'd prefer not to be eaten by anyone, and definitely don't enjoy seeing an animal harming another. You have to ask an animal or yourself... but using the fact the animal X kills animal Y as an excuse for another animal being killed for human food doesn't make sense at all. Some animals kill for food, some don't, we don't need to copy the behavior of animals, and definitely not kill because others (animals or humans) kill.



    2) We are above, by means of placement or just intelligence, the animals.
    See above. These levels of decision making exist in your head - and if you ask me, they'll disappear if you want them to...

    In this case, as superiors it is our decision whether to eat that plant or this cow, neither of which can really make a decision based on anything other than instinct.
    Who have the right to give a human the right to kill another animal or another human? And why would he want to when the victim don't want it and he doesn't need to, and least, but not last, because it feels wrong?

    The cow eats grass not because it doesn't like the idea of stomping on the rabbit playing between its feet, but because it's fit for chewing and digesting grass.
    That's your opinion... humans are fit for chewing and digesting thousands of plants, and of course, you can decide (or at least feel that you decide) to kill and eat another sentient being, but my humble advice is to try something else than eating dead corpses (read: gourmet vegan food) for a few weeks and see how it feels.

    Most meat eaters have never decided to become meat eaters, they are trained to eat meat, and are trained to ignore the fact that they are chewing on the muscles of a calf or the wings of a bird, and trained to think that we are 'above' other species in the sense that 'someone' has given us the right to kill them, just because they happen to like the taste of meat.

    Now, even if I would have agreed with you that we have the right or capacity to make a decision to kill another being for food (I disagree), there still wouldn't be a reason to do it. Remember that most vegans (unless raised as veggies) have tried both a traditional meat based and a vegan lifestyle, and ended up as vegans. Unfortunately, most meat eaters not only did never decide to become meat eaters, but also, they've never tried something else, and lots of them may never try it unless they become 40-50 and their doctor tells them to cut down on animal products due to health problems - still, they have lots of opinions about what feels most right (of the two lifestyles). Why not give it a try?

    Again, good luck, and good bye.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  8. #8

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    i try to live in a way that causes the least amount of harm to the world around me. cutting off another creature's life is destructive, selfish, and unnecessary - therefore i refuse to do it or support it.

    even if the creature feels no pain, that animal was born onto the earth with a precious number of years, and that's just been taken away because somebody thought a piece of venison would taste nice today. i don't think fleeting enjoyment justifies taking something from another creature that can never be given back.

    that's my philosophy.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    It is scary and horrifying to have one's life taken away-there is no "quick and momentary" about it. The physical body fights against destruction.

  10. #10
    Squirrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    I know there's dispute over labeling oneself vegan, but there are people out there who call themselves vegan but would eat an animal (or its products) who spent its life running and playing. That is, people have different motivations for being vegan--health, environment, ethics--and for some people it's the factory farming and not the life-taking that's the issue, correct? Similar to the author of the OP, I suppose. But since it's basically impossible, unaffordable, and perhaps a little weird to track down such an animal for personal consumption, vegans with this philosophy live their lives as the other vegans do.

    I know this website defines vegan as someone who is against, among other things, killing animals, but other definitions are out there. Do the members here feel that potential meat-eaters are not really vegans?

  11. #11
    New Jack sp00ki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Out of curiosity, what's quick or momentary about spending four to five years in unsanitary, cramped, poorly ventilated living conditions, suffering through infections due to excessive poorly administered injections, lack of exercise, horrible medical care (if any, as most "organic" animals aren't allowed even the most basic medicine), sore body parts due to over milking...
    Surely you can't be so clueless as to believe the animal industry picks happy farm animals on sunny, comfy farms and quickly and momentarily (whatever the f that means anyway) chops their heads off.

    Are people getting dumber, or do the arguments make less sense as time goes on?

  12. #12
    greenspex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Worcestershire
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: Killing animals

    Quote amosharper View Post
    [Edit: Text removed by moderator, because it's not relevant at a vegan forum].


    If you took a baseball bat to an animal until it was within an inch of its life, it would still try to avoid death.
    Which tells me it doesn't want to die, so for me to then kill it is cruel and selfish beyond measure. I don't want to be a cruel and selfish person. I find it strange to enjoy feasting on the flesh of another being whose life was taken from it forceably and unwillingly. Personally I have no desire to open a fridge and select body parts to put in my mouth and chew and swallow. I could not eat a human thigh, finger or tongue. To eat an animal's seems to me as strange. But it wasn't always that way, I just woke up one day to what I was doing. If you haven't, what I've just written it won't mean anything to you and that's the way it is.
    Last edited by greenspex; Jan 12th, 2007 at 07:02 AM. Reason: Bad grammar

  13. #13
    greenspex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Worcestershire
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote Korn View Post
    Most meat eaters have never decided to become meat eaters, they are trained to eat meat, and are trained to ignore the fact that they are chewing on the muscles of a calf or the wings of a bird, and trained to think that we are 'above' other species in the sense that 'someone' has given us the right to kill them, just because they happen to like the taste of meat.

    Again, good luck, and good bye.
    Perfectly put Korn. Re last sentence, have you terminated their membership?

  14. #14
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote GreenSpecs View Post
    Perfectly put Korn. Re last sentence, have you terminated their membership?
    It was actually never activated, but is changed from Awaiting Membership Approval to 'Not Active' now...
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  15. #15
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default

    Quote Squirrel View Post
    I know there's dispute over labeling oneself vegan
    Hi Squirrel... the term vegan is pretty clear, and has always been: You won't find meat, eggs, dairy products or honey in a vegan meal anywhere, and it's always been like that.

    there are people out there who call themselves vegan but would eat an animal (or its products) who spent its life running and playing.
    Again, you won't find meat from an animal that has 'spent its life running and playing' anywhere. If people who eat meat call themselves vegans or vegetarians, they just don't know what the word means. Maybe you mix up the terms here - there may be some animal welfare activists or GreenPeace-members who eat meat. but no vegans. Nada.

    That is, people have different motivations for being vegan--health, environment, ethics--and for some people it's the factory farming and not the life-taking that's the issue, correct?
    No, that's a huge misunderstanding. You can't be vegan for health reasons alone, because vegans are against wearing eg. fur, and fur as you know isn't known to create health problems. There are no vegans who eat meat from animals that are not factory farmed - if you want to take a test, check out all the vegan cookbooks out there and call all the vegan cafes in the world and check if they have meat from non-factory farmed animals: they don't. If you read a little about the term 'vegan' and it's roots, and you'll see what I mean. The word 'vegan' never covered eating meat from certain animals, like wild deer, while not eating meat from others, and there are no other sites, books or forums that suggests that meat from certain animals is part of the vegan diet: if they would have done that, I'd see it as an attempt of 'hijacking' the term vegan, just like some people eat fish and chicken and what not and claim to be vegetarians. They are not, but for some reason, there's always a very small minority who for some reason want to use a certain term about themselves, and don't really match the definition of that word, and try to change the term instead of changing themselves...

    Quote Squirrel View Post
    Do the members here feel that potential meat-eaters are not really vegans?
    As a final comment about eating meat and being vegan, I should probably also add that regarding what is covered by the definitions of words like 'red' or 'vegan' or 'water', feelings are pretty much relevant - for a change. If you look at a stone, it's a stone even if you find two people who feel that it's not a stone, but a librarian from Texas. A stone is a stone, blue isn't red, and vegans don't eat meat. 'Vegan' isn't a religion, it's a description, and although feelings and compassion definitely is a part of being vegan, and even if there are situations where two vegans may disagree in what is right and what is wrong, or about 'how vegan' a certain action is, eating meat from certain animals has never been part of that term.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    .
    Posts
    1,996

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote Korn View Post
    A stone is a stone, blue isn't red, and vegans don't eat meat.
    That sounds like a signature in the making.

  17. #17
    Squirrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote Korn View Post
    'Vegan' isn't a religion, it's a description, and although feelings and compassion definitely is a part of being vegan, and even if there are situations where two vegans may disagree in what is right and what is wrong, or about 'how vegan' a certain action is, eating meat from certain animals has never been part of that term.
    Right, I agree with you. The person who found a happy-living chicken (or roadkill) to eat, and ate it, would not be a vegan. But if they spent their entire life avoiding animals products yet still would have eaten that hypothetical chicken, would you call them vegan? Splitting hairs here because I think many people convert out of opposition to factory farming, not out of opposition to consuming other creatures. For example, I got some print materials from Vegan Outreach in the mail today. They clearly stress the problems with factory farming, as does Meet Your Meat. What would you say to these materials? Are they giving people (maybe me) a false idea of what veganism is? Or are they doing good by reaching people who would not be influenced by an animals-are-our-equals argument, getting them to take the first of several steps?

  18. #18
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote Squirrel View Post
    Right, I agree with you. The person who found a happy-living chicken (or roadkill) to eat, and ate it, would not be a vegan. But if they spent their entire life avoiding animals products yet still would have eaten that hypothetical chicken, would you call them vegan?
    Since you don't harm or kill an animal (or human) by eating someone killed by a car, you could theoretically be vegan and eat meat from someone killed in a car accident, but I'd say that it's just as likely that you'll ever come across a vegan picking up and eating a rabbit killed by a that it is that you'll find a non-vegan eating meat from a human killed in a car crash - for reasons that go beyond logic and ethics. I wouldn't want a dead human or animal in my food, even if it was killed in a car accident (would you?).

    If someone put meat in a meal on a vegan cafe and afterwards said (when vegans complained) 'what's the problem, it was roadkill!', I'd make sure other vegans would know that these people put meat in vegan meals, and boycott the place.

    Please don't forget that the word vegan has at least two functions, one of them is describing that there is no meat, eggs, milk etc. in a meal, for people who (for various reasons) won't eat these products. Maybe there's nothing 'wrong' - as such - in eating an animal/human that died in a car crash (which btw. is very different from being killed by a hunter), but I still wouldn't put the blood and muscles of these poor beings in my mouth, for reasons that you may or may not understand.

    Personally, I don't think I have more to say about this. We have discussed roadkill etc. in earlier threads, in case you want to have a look at earlier, similar discussions.

    Splitting hairs here because I think many people convert out of opposition to factory farming, not out of opposition to consuming other creatures.
    Convert to... veganism? If they avoid meat from factory farms, and go hunting for animals 'who spent their life running and playing' in the weekends, they have not converted to veganism, and if they would register here to promote the ethicalness of hunting, we'll ban them (we've done that a couple of times already).

    Please read a little about the history of veganism. By the way, did you find any vegan cookbooks with meat in it's recipes, meat from 'happy animals'?

    For example, I got some print materials from Vegan Outreach in the mail today. They clearly stress the problems with factory farming, as does Meet Your Meat. What would you say to these materials?
    I won't say anything, because I haven't seen these materials, but if someone from V.O. wants to stress factory farming, let them do it, but if they try to claim that a meat eating, fur wearing group of people going hunting in their holidays (but avoiding meat from factory farms) still could call themselves vegans, I'll assume it that they are paid by someone to post this nonsense, and put veganoutreach back on our list of censored words (which currently only contains one other word... )


    Are they giving people (maybe me) a false idea of what veganism is?
    I've read some unbelievably silly stuff on V.O. before, but I haven't seen them claim that meat from certain animals is 'vegan meat'.... have you? One can stress the horrible stuff going on in lots of factory farms and still not claim that killing animals running in the woods is a 'vegan act'.

    Veganism is going further than vegetarianism, and remember that when vegetarianism was born, factory farming didn't exist. Look here: What's in a name (definition of 'vegetarian')?
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  19. #19
    Squirrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote Korn View Post
    Since you don't harm or kill an animal (or human) by eating someone killed by a car, you could theoretically be vegan and eat 'meat from a car accident', but I'd say that it's just as unlikely that you'll ever come across a vegan picking up a rabbit killed by a car and eat it that it is that you'll find a non-vegan eating meat from a human killed in a car crash - for reasons that go beyond logic and ethics.

    On one side that is an interesting topic, because I wouldn't want a dead human or animal in my food, even if it was killed in a car accident (would you?), on the other hand, the animal wouldn't be harmed by being eaten (it was already killed in an accident), but I would personally still not eat it.
    Do those reasons that go beyond logic and ethics include culture? Americans don't eat dogs or people because it's how they were raised. Some cultures do. If "it's how I was raised" isn't a good enough excuse to eat meat, maybe it's not a good enough excuse not to eat people. I'd eat a person or a dog if I had to, but I don't have to. I recognize that that logically extends to not eating animals because I don't have to. Roadkill too, for that matter, but again I'll probably never have a real reason to. What I mean to say is that drawing connections between humans and animals does not always work for me. But I think we may be getting far too tangled in hypothetical situations. I will look into the roadkill thread.

    Convert to... veganism? If they avoid meat from factory farms, and go hunting for animals 'who spent their life running and playing' in the weekends, they haven't converted to veganism, and if they register here to promote the ethicalness of hunting, we'll ban them (we've done that a couple of times already).
    Please don't misunderstand me. I wasn't thinking of hunting at all; I think hunting is a sport for most people in the world (those who've ever been exposed to the concept of veganism anyway), not a method for survival, and I am opposed to killing for the fun of it. Again, "I don't have to hunt so I don't" extends to include "I don't have to eat animals so I don't." I'm really not trying to find a loophole for meat-eating, I'm just trying to figure out my personal feelings on the matter, without straying too far from the topic of the thread.

    By the way, did you find any vegan cookbooks with meat in it's recipes, meat from 'happy animals'?
    No, and I didn't bother, either!

    I won't say anything, because I haven't seen these materials, but if someone want to stress factory farming, let them do it. If they try to claim that a meat eating, fur wearing group of people going hunting in their holidays (but avoiding meat from factory farms) still could call themselves vegans, I'll assume it that they are paid by someone to post this nonsense, and put veganoutreach back on our list of censored words (which currently only contains one other word... )
    I think I get your point. Thanks for the link. Do you think we can keep this up in private message? I'd like to keep going but it's not so relevant to the thread.

  20. #20

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    I have to agree that there can be different motivations for becomming vegan...even if you're doing it to impress somebody and you couldn't care less about animals, you're still vegan! but seriously, i think there's a difference between a vegan diet and a vegan lifestyle. afterall, what do you call a person who doesn't eat any animal products but will wear silk clothes? they fall somewhere in the spectrum between vegetarian and vegan, and since they fall closer to the vegan side of things it makes more sense they be considered vegan rather than vegetarian. and what about those who adhere to a vegan diet and lifestyle, but still wear leather/wool/silk that was purchased prior to their diet decision? according to the traditional definition, they wouldnt' be vegan. should we have a much more detailed spectrum of definitions for every possible variation in diet and lifestyle? perhaps...but why are we so hell bent on labeling everything anyway? it feels like just another way to separate us from one another.

    i guess i just don't see why we have to be so possessive of the term. it's just a silly label afterall. with or without it we are going to continue living how we feel is best...i think we should be secure enough in our identities not to feel compelled to ban other ethical human beings from this self-perceived clique.

    (and, for the record, i can find validity in almost everyone's arguments here...though personally i feel a part of veganism is respecting life by not ending it needlessly. i do, however, accept that some may disagree)

  21. #21
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The Emerald Isle
    Posts
    2,506

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Hi Squirrel, I think the point is that even if I 'had to eat a person or a dog' I wouldn't! I would rather starve to death! The fact is if you are vegan you find it alien to want to consume another living being for any reason.
    If I found myself, let's say, on a deserted island with nothing but another human or animal with me, I would sooner die from starvation than put their dead flesh, cooked or otherwise into my mouth and chew it, then swallow it (I'm going to be sick as I type).
    That's the point! Don't you get it? Please tell me you get it?! o.k Squirrel let me know what you think.

  22. #22
    Squirrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Sandra, I think I understand your point of view, and you seem to also be saying you wouldn't eat flesh of any animal/human, dead by your doing or accidentally, even if the living creature offered itself to you. Is that correct?

    (And a human could conceivably offer her/himself to you--I watched a documentary about some whalers lost at sea, and starving, who eventually drew lots on which one would sacrifice himself so they didn't every single one of them starve. He took the bullet without a struggle, and they ate him.)

    See, I don't think eating meat is automatically disgusting, but I think I agree that is is wrong to kill and eat animals when you don't have to.

  23. #23
    satirecafe
    Guest

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    I would do the same Sandra, but i'd like to add that if a person was stranded on a deserted island with nothing to eat but a dog, and he ate the dog, i wouldn't necessarily find that morally wrong because in the end, humans are still animals and it is in our nature to do whatever is necessary for survival.

  24. #24
    kriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    at home
    Posts
    768

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote sandra View Post
    The fact is if you are vegan you find it alien to want to consume another living being for any reason.
    Agree with you, Sandra - it's ALIEN to me to even think about consuming meat. It will NEVER be an option for me no matter what "logic" someone is trying to put into my head. Flesh, muscles, bones is no more food to me than dirt (actually I'd rather eat dirt!). Some meat eaters would probably do the same if they had to choose between eating dirt and a puppy or a kitten.... so maybe we can all understand each other after all.
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

  25. #25
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The Emerald Isle
    Posts
    2,506

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Thanks Kriz, you and I think very much alike!
    If I had been on the ship with those 'whaler's (perish the thought that I would even be on a 'whaling' ship) I still wouldn't eat flesh even if the person 'took the bullet without a struggle'. That whole scenario is like a scene from some kind of twisted Hell!
    Nor would I think it is ok to eat a dog to survive. To give you an idea of how strongly I feel about this, it would be like someone very close to you dying and you eating their dead body! Would you do that? I really don't think you would, and if there are humans out there that would do that, I think they need some sort of counselling.
    I think what I'm trying to convey here is that to me living off another being in any way is not food, and I know I would die if it came down to that.

  26. #26
    greenspex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Worcestershire
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote karmadust View Post
    why are we so hell bent on labeling everything anyway? it feels like just another way to separate us from one another.

    i guess i just don't see why we have to be so possessive of the term. it's just a silly label afterall. with or without it we are going to continue living how we feel is best...i think we should be secure enough in our identities not to feel compelled to ban other ethical human beings from this self-perceived clique.
    Interesting that you should say that as I was beginning to wonder why this debate was getting so "technical". Is it because Vegans feel sometimes that part of being Vegan is being prepared to continue to discuss a topic past the point of usefulness, in case we manage to enable others to see things a little differently, maybe reduce/stop meat consumption, and contributed to reducing suffering?

    For me, being Vegan is about reducing suffering, having as little impact on the planet as possible. This means the planet itself which is suffering, and those that live on it. I do this out of respect for life. I would no more eat roadkill than my own grandmother. If she died naturally, then I could in theory eat her. She wouldn't know, she can hardly care because she's dead, she will serve no other function than to decay, one could even argue that not to eat her is a waste in the current lack of food this planet suffers. But I wouldn't out of respect. I think it's unusual to respect animals to this extent but Vegans do.

    There is also now for me a squeamishness about putting a body part in my mouth and masticating, swallowing and adding it to my body make-up. That's often the sticking point for some meat eaters, who (in my experience) will tease a veg*an for not being "hard enough" to eat meat. Which does suggest that you do have to have fewer feelings to eat it, contradicting another meat eater argument that animals don't have feelings and souls so it doesn't matter.

    But then I do find meat eaters often contradict themselves. Whereas Vegans don't feel the same need to talk about it because they are comfortable with what they're doing. Which suggests that perhaps meat eaters aren't? Why else do they keep trying to subscribe to forums like this and, genuinely or not, try to engage us in debate?

    FYI some of the above has been touched on in the Since When Did Vegans Eat Chicken And Fish (or something) thread.

    Sorry, that was along one but I could't seem to make it any shorter.

  27. #27
    John's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    NJ USA
    Posts
    714

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Has Vegan Forum become a place where non-vegans come to debate--and we debate them?

    It basically comes down to: Animals have rights vs Animals have no rights. It's something that's either in your heart or not, and arguing will never make anyone change their mind unless they want to.

    Please exuse me that I'm posting without reading the thread.

  28. #28
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote John View Post
    Has Vegan Forum become a place where non-vegans come to debate--and we debate them?
    Not the forum itself, but in this area - the Not A Vegan-section - non-vegans can post questions (but of course not promote meat eating/killing of animals). We have banned a few people who pretend to want to ask questions, but instead show that they only want a debate, but have no interest in anything vegan.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  29. #29
    John's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    NJ USA
    Posts
    714

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    I see. Maybe it's selfish of me to want this site to be only for vegans and people who earnestly want to go vegan.

    I guess I can see explaining to someone the basics of veganism but I just say, be careful not to get sucked into debates with people who do not even accept the basic premises of your point. Maybe I'm wrong and these ideas will brew in people's minds but that's what I think.

  30. #30
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Selfish or not, I see your point. The only reason we have this section is that it seems that there are no (or few) other places for curios non-vegans who a drawn towards a vegan lifestyle to ask questions, but maybe offering this section here is a bad idea?
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  31. #31
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Herefordshire, England
    Posts
    1,564

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    I agree with John and I think it is a bit selfish of us. As Korn says, someone might read these threads and start thinking. I hate reading these threads but I do from time to time in case I can help. Urgh! Why can't I just be selfish???
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  32. #32
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    I think it's OK to have these debates as long as they're confined to this one section, so that people can avoid reading them if they want. They can be a bit repetitive though can't they?

  33. #33
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Yes, they can!
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  34. #34
    greenspex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Worcestershire
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Have you developed a little cut and paste library Korn for those sorts of enquiries?

  35. #35
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    No - I'm capable of repeating myself without technological help... . I have pasted in excerpts from earlier replies a couple of times, but in most cases, posting a link to already existing threads do the trick. In the case of momentary killing of animals, I don't think we have a thread dedicated to that topic - but with 7-8000 threads, who knows...

    Re. discussing with non-vegans in this section, we could probably change some settings, and make the Not A Vegan-section invisible for people who don't want to see it, but still leave it visible for newbies, occasional visitors and search engines.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  36. #36
    Purple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Guildford
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Re: Vegans eating roadkill.

    Some friends of a friend of a friend (yes, I know, bare with me) live (I think) in France, and are self sufficient. I don't know if they call themselves vegan, or vegetarian, but they were travelling some place and found a dead deer. It had just died (they probably saw the car accident), and decided that 'morally' it was okay to eat it (for various reasons).

    I was asked on my stance on this, and I said for 1, that it was bloody disgusting. Point 2, that by removing that dead deer, you've taken it out of the food chain, so birds, maggots, flies, other mammals etc would have eaten that, but now can't. (I know you can argue the same thing with eating an apple).

    Anyway, the took it home, cooked it, ate it...

    ...AND GOT REALLY, REALLY ILL!!!

  37. #37
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Herefordshire, England
    Posts
    1,564

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote Korn View Post
    make the Not A Vegan-section invisible for people who don't want to see it, but still leave it visible for newbies, occasional visitors and search engines.
    That would be good. Then I can pop in to see what's going on if I feel strong, otherwise I won't have to.

    Purple, that last sentence made me laugh, even though the story was not so nice.
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  38. #38
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The Emerald Isle
    Posts
    2,506

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Serve them right Purple! There was someone on This Morning yesterday, he was a chef who ate roadkill! He was cooking some poor unfortunate squirrel he found dead. He said he was a vegetarian because he didn't eat anything deliberately killed to be eaten!
    He's definitely not vegetarian if he eats any animal, but it just made me think, if a meat eater found a dead pig lying on the road they would probably be disgusted by it and not want to eat it. Why then is it any different from one that is killed somewhere else where they can't see it?

  39. #39
    Purple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Guildford
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    A chef who ate road kill?? OMFG! That's really disgusting Sandra Don't think I'll be eating in his restaurant

    You're right about the omni's though - the majority (seriously I'd have to say over 98% of meat eaters) only eat meat because they're disassociated from the act of raising it and killing it.

    Ask a meat eater to kill a cow and they won't have the guts. I know I wouldn't have when I ate meat.


    -sigh-

  40. #40
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The Emerald Isle
    Posts
    2,506

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    That is so right Purple! Omni's just bury their heads in the sand, they don't want to confront what they are doing!

  41. #41
    Purple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Guildford
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    It's weird isn't it. Were you a meat eater at any phase of your life? For me, I tried to come up with the same arguments until my vegan friend politely told me the reasons why he's vegan. Admittedly, I didn't (want to?) believe him, so I looked on the internet and was proved utterly that he was right.

    So I went veggie.

    Then vegan a bit later.


    I think for a lot of human beings they'll go veggie or vegan, when it's easier to change their lifestyle, than it is to live with the guilt of their actions. They'll only feel guilty if they have looked into the truth and not buried their head in the sand.

    I've started using reverse psychology - "Why don't you eat chicken?" - "I had a look on the internet about chicken farms, but you don't really want to know. It's too awful for words. If I told you you'd be horrified, so best not to look".

    Curiosity gets the better of them every time

  42. #42
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The Emerald Isle
    Posts
    2,506

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    That's a good approach Purple!
    Yes, I was a meat eater up until the age of 16, and I certainly 'buried my head in the sand' about the reality of it. Then one day, I had to confront who I really was.

  43. #43
    xcoresince'84! veganavenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Keele, UK
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Hm. It seems a little futile carrying on this discussion as the initiator is no longer here, but there are a few interesting points I'd like to throw my two cents in on.

    Firstly, the age-old "argument" of being stranded on a desert island, with nothing to eat. Would you kill an animal to eat it?

    There isn't too much logic in the question to begin with - every animal needs sustenance that somewhere down the line comes from plant matter. If a pig/rat/bird/tiger can survive - then there is certainly more than enough plant matter in the form of seeds/nuts/leaves/fruits to sustain one human being.

    However, the point I'd like to make is that in this very hypothetical scenario where one must kill an animal and eat if to survive, of course I would. I'd like to think that my life and actions are making a positive impact on the world, albeit in perhaps small ways. If I was to die a pointless death of starvation for the sake of my morals, what use would that be to the world? I'd like to think I could kill, repent, then continue to live and strive to make positive changes in society. No, I wouldn't enjoy the process, and yes, it probably would make me feel sick with guilt. But I'd make up for it and make that little piggy's death worthwhile by raising awareness to animal rights issues, and doing my bit to try to help stop factory farming and the like.

    The second point I'd like to make re: eating roadkill. It is a little icky, but who are we to judge someone who wants to try and make something positive out of the tragic death of a deer? I certainly wouldn't eat it, but I don't think we can fault those who do, or wish them any harm. They didn't hurt the deer or wish it dead, so as far as I can see, they didn't commit any sort of injustice. If I was to die in a nasty way, I'd hope that someone would benefit in some way from it, whether it be from obtaining a tasty nutritious meal, or receiving my organs in order to live.

  44. #44
    Good sperm
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sarf Lahndn
    Posts
    851

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    The 'stuck on an island with a chicken' argument is pure crap. If the chicken can eat, so can I. If he can't, what's the point in me eating him and prolonging my death on that biological wasteland?
    Dumb omnis. There is no justification for a non-vegan diet. Their excuses reek of guilt.

  45. #45
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Hi veganavenger!

    You may not find many vegans that considers eating the remains of a dead, sentient being 'something positive' - even if it's it killed in a car accident - but I agree that continuing this thread is a bit futile (both because the original poster isn't here and because the thread has gone a little off topic), so I'll close the thread soon - just start a new thread about the other topics in one of the other subforums if you want to...
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  46. #46
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Quote Korn View Post
    Re. discussing with non-vegans in this section, we could probably change some settings, and make the Not A Vegan-section invisible for people who don't want to see it, but still leave it visible for newbies, occasional visitors and search engines.
    I have done this now. If you go to your User Control Panel, and look for Group Memberships (here), you'll see an option called 'View Not A Vegan Yet-subforums' with a button next to it.

    By clicking on Leave Group (and then, Leave Group once again, below that section), the Not A Vegan/New Vegan-section will not be visible anymore, and be listed as 'Private' instead. Go back to Group Memberships again later if you want to join the group (and thereby see the Not A Vegan-area) again...
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  47. #47
    Lilac Hamster
    Guest

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    I think the forum is very good in this respect, keeping most of it a safe and supportive place for true vegans, with just a small section for debate with non-vegans. I think you get the balance just right Korn by keeping them out of the main areas.
    I've been on AR boards where you get lots of trolls who say they support AR but then go on to say they will not even go veggie, let alone vegan, and yet these fake AR ppl are not even confined to a special section of the forum!

  48. #48
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    The suggestion that meat eaters could hunt for their own food - as an alternative to factory farming - came up in another thread recently (in the section where non-vegans can post).

    I also, again, came across some links showing how many animals which actually are killed for food every year:
    http://animalrights.about.com/od/ani...Are-Killed.htm
    http://animaldeathcount.blogspot.com/

    The idea that non-vegans should go hunting for their own food is rather bizarre. There aren't that many wild animals out there, and the number would be reduced drastically very soon if meat eaters should hunt for their own food. Also, forests and jungles would become 'war zones'. It wouldn't only be the end of taking a walk 'in nature' due to all the noise from the guns (imagine eg. 300 million Americans being regularly fed by wild animals), it would be really dangerous to spend time in such areas, and more accidents would happen with humans as well.

    Wild animals are afraid of humans (for a good reason), and would of course try to escape. They are usually faster than us, and often have eyes/ears and a sense of smell which is way more developed than ours. Still, many would animals would be killed, but *not* killed momentary. Many would suffer, and many of the wild animals' children/parents would be left alone.

    Besides - aren't there hunting seasons in most Western countries? If eg. almost the 300 million meat eaters in US should live off wild animals throughout the year, would hunting have to be something which happened all year long?

    The most ridiculous thing is of course that the numbers don't match. There are too many humans/too few animals out there to satiisfy humans' desire for meat by hunting wild animals. One of the reasons factory farms do exist, is that they use all kinds of methods (like eg. mechanical mass killing of chicken) to make the production of animal products more efficient. Hunting wouldn't even be remotely close to that level of efficiency.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  49. #49
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    Here are some other arguments against the idea that humans should start go hunting instead of buying meat from the meat industry:


    HUNTING ACCIDENTS

    2011

    October
    CA: Sheriff: Fresno hunter accidentally killed nephew
    LA: Father and son shot while hunting, ruled accidental
    OR: Gresham man hurt on solo bow-hunting trip rescued at Columbia River Gorge
    ID: Idaho Elk Hunter Attacked by Bear Near Yellowstone Park
    AK: Injured hunter rescued in Delta Junction area
    AK: Body of missing Chalkyitsik hunter found
    MI: Hunter, 49, dies of gunshot wound underneath hunting platform

    September
    WI: Appleton man was shot in face while hunting
    FL: Hunter shoots himself in foot with crossbow, becomes pinned to ATV
    MI: Mackinac County Michigan Bear Hunter Injured by Black Bear
    KY: Missing Hunter Found Dead in Woods
    HI: Pig-hunting teen hurt in fall grateful for help
    FL: Man shot in foot during Blue Sprig squirrel hunt
    AK: James Monroe Suffers Fatal Fall While Hunting in Halibut Bay
    SD: 13-year-old girl dies from hunting accident
    AK: Donald Sanford Hospitalized After Alaska Bear Mauling
    AK: Hunter missing near Port Dick
    UT: 9-year-old shot in hunting accident up Logan Canyon
    AK: Nushagak River search finds no sign of missing hunting guide
    AK: Fairbanks woman dies when ATV flips on rutted trail, machine lands on top of her
    PA: Woman, dog shot while walking near Mt. Gretna
    MT: Steve Stevenson, Hunter, Dies In Montana After Wounded Grizzly Bear Attacks

    August
    MS: Hunter shoots another hunter and keeps hunting...Low birds: A little salty about getting peppered
    FL: Larry Leonard, popular Mason Elementary staffer, dies falling from hunting tree stand
    NY: Area teen accidentally shot while hunting woodchucks
    TX: Women air-lifted after accidental shooting
    MN: Woman shot by teen squirrel hunter
    CA: Sonoma hunter hospitalized after wild pig attack

    July
    TN: Holcomb recovery from hunting accident 'a blessing'
    NH: Teen shot in throat hunting coyotes
    Hunter critically wounded in accidental shooting of self

    June

    OK: Teen shot while hunting
    NY: Rattlesnake bites Morris man during roundup
    FL: Trapper bitten by caged bear in Franklin County
    NC: Amputation after hunting accident
    May
    Man Shot in Hunting Accident
    Rusk County TX man killed in 4-wheeler accident while hunting
    Nine-year-old Texas girl fatally shot in hunting accident
    Pennsylvania hunter accidentally kills himself in Westmoreland
    Buffalo Township deer hunter pleads no contest in injury
    Canajoharie NY man charged after accidental turkey hunting shooting injures two hunters
    Two charged after New York turkey hunting accident
    Hunting accident claims Butte MT boy
    Firsthand account: Turkey hunter shot by a trespasser
    17 Kansas Hunting Incidents in 2010
    AK: 9-year old kills 11-year-old while hunting
    Grizzly Severely Mauls Alaska Bear Hunter
    IN: Man shot during turkey hunting
    Maine turkey hunter wounded in Hollis on opening day
    ME: Hunter shot on opening day of turkey season
    MO: Hunter Shot In The Head
    NY: Hunter hurt while turkey hunting
    VA: 10-year-old shot by uncle while hunting in Alleghany County
    WV: Boone Hunter Released From Hospital

    April
    5-year-old Boy shot while hunting with dad in Wisconsin
    AR: Hunter accidentally kills himself in Conway County
    AR: Missing hunter found dead
    IN: Missing hunter from Pendleton found dead
    IL: Cat Recovering After Being Shot With An Arrow
    IL: Hunter sues tree stand manufacturer
    IL: One hunter accidentally shoots second outside Alton
    Iowa DNR investigates possible shooting in Woodbury County
    Man dies in Florida fishing accident
    Man Shot While Turkey Hunting in Gallia County, Ohio
    MO: 16-year-old killed while hunting
    MT: Teen's death while hunting remains open case
    ND: The bodies of two missing beaver hunters have been found
    TN: turkey hunter accidentally shot, then abandoned by a fellow hunter
    TX: Kleberg County sheriff: Shooting was a hunting accident
    VA: Officers investigating shooting of teen hunter near Fincastle
    WA: Milton-Freewater man wounded in hunting accident
    WI: Hunter dies while hunting coyotes

    February
    CO: Man shoots himself while hunting
    FL: Hunter suffers fatal fall from tree stand in Wesley Chapel
    FL: Hog Hunter Shot by Fellow Hunter at Green Swamp West WMA
    KS: Man Dies In Crash While Hunting
    LA: Arrest made after police find body
    MS: 18-Year-Old Shot While Hunting In Copiah County
    MS: Five rescued after boat sinks during hunting trip
    MS: Man Accidentally Shoots Partner During Hunting Trip
    NC: Two NC Boys Killed In Separate Squirrel-Hunting Accidents
    NC: Teenager fatally shot after gun goes off in hunting accident
    NJ: hunter shot in face, but not seriously injured
    Oh Deer: Hunting Accident Dings Trib Reporter
    TX: Kerrville pastor dies on hunting trip

    January
    Alabama deaths from tree stand falls reach all-time high
    AL: Hunter Injured In 30-Foot Fall From Tree Stand
    AL: Hunter dies after 20-foot fall in New Market
    AL: Prattville man dies in hunting accident
    Army Captain killed by hunter in NC
    Boating accident injures two men on Belle River
    CA: When Hunting Gets Too Dangerous For Your Dog
    CO: 8-year-old boy killed in hunting accident
    FL: Man and dog shot by hunter
    GA: Hunter missing in Lowndes Co. pond
    GA: Man Killed in Hunting Accident in Bulloch County
    HI: Police search for missing hunter
    IA: Retired Muscatine Police officer falls from deer stand
    Iowa hunter injured Saturday in Ringgold County
    KY: Hunting accident kills Casey man
    Louisiana man dies hunting with friends in Copiah County
    MD: ASSATEAGUE: Wild horse shot during deer hunt
    MS: Hunter rescued after stand collapses
    MS: Man dies in hunting accident
    NC: Hunter, 17, Accidentally Shoots Self in Davidson County
    NC: Hunter clings to kayak, survives
    NC Trapper bitten by trapped red wolf
    NE: 8 Hunting-Related Incidents Reported in 2010
    NM: Hunter hospitalized after shooting himself
    PA: 2 hunters cited in shooting
    PA: Exton hunter found dead in West Vincent woods
    PA: Woman Shot By Hunter In Lancaster County
    Reverend dies in apparent hunting accident
    South Ga. man dies after fall from deer stand in rural Ala.; incident is 3rd this season
    TX: One man dead after Rusk County hunting accident
    UT: Utah County man shot while hunting pheasants
    VA: A deadly season for area hunters
    VA: Duck hunter who drowned identified
    VA: Man falls on hunt
    VA: Man Killed in Louisa Hunting Accident
    VA: Vinton Man Injured in Hunting Accident
    VA: Virginia Military Institute Cadet died in a hunting accident
    WI: Glenwood City man shot by brother during coyote hunt
    WI: Hunting accidents
    WI: Hunter Shot in Glenwood Township

    How Many People are Killed or Injured in Hunting Accidents?



    According to the International Hunter Education Association, approximately 1,000 people in the US and Canada are accidentally shot by hunters every year, and just under a hundred of those accidents are fatalities. Most victims are hunters, but non-hunters are also sometimes killed or injured. Although some other forms of recreation cause more fatalities, hunting is one of the few activities that endangers the entire community, and not just the willing participants.

    The Committee to Abolish Sport Hunting maintains the Hunting Accidents Center site, which collects news stories about hunting accidents throughout the United States. Although the list is long, it's not comprehensive, and not every hunting accident is reported in the news. If you've seen a newspaper article about a hunting accident that is not included in the site, you can submit a report.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  50. #50

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Rye, East Sussex
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: What do vegans have against quick, momentary killing of animals?

    HUNTING ACCIDENTS

    I probably shouldn't even think 'good' should I? Much less say it....

Similar Threads

  1. PETA killing animals?
    By Pilaf in forum VEGANISM - THE MAIN TOPICS
    Replies: 215
    Last Post: Aug 1st, 2012, 12:30 AM
  2. Animals Like Vegans Better?
    By seasideD in forum Animals
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: Nov 20th, 2007, 06:43 AM
  3. Vegans and carnivorous animals
    By grail in forum QUESTIONS FROM NON-VEGANS
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Nov 30th, 2005, 01:35 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •