We made it to Brisbane!

[Jamie]

I haven't been able to look on here properly in a few weeks, but we have made it safely to Brisbane and are almost fully moved in.

The only vegan/veggie place we've eaten at so far was Rainforest, and we made a flying visit to Fundamentals shops when we first arrived. I'm looking forward to trying out more of them but we are so tired from running about all day, nearly every day for the past 2 weeks...

I'd love if any other Brisbane based vegans would email me (I think it's in my profile?), or if anyone has any tips or advice, ideas on where I should go for shopping or eating etc.

We are living in Upper Edward St, which is a block or two behind central station. It's not too far from the city but the hills are getting to me!! I'm sure it's healthy though.....

I've found it difficult trying to find vegan food when out & about - well, not really finding it per se, but that there is terrible contamination when they prepare the food, using impliments between different foods etc. But it seems to be the standard - I suppose there just isn't the rules about it like they try to enforce in the UK? I have no idea really. I just have to try to put it out of my mind and think to myself - well I'm not supporting the cruelty industries if the shop are using the same tongs to put together my salad as they just used in the cheese... but I'm not really very convinced. I try to just have the fresh juices etc instead and drinking lots of water, and eat properly when I'm at home, but sometimes my body does need something to eat to continue so I have to consider something like that. Chips too - but there's little chance it's cooked seperately to non-vegan stuff. I don't really know what to do besides permanently carrying a lunchbox with me! A lot of the time we don't know what we are doing in the day. When we are into a regular routine of working, it will be easier to just cater for myself and not have to buy things.

I'd be interested to know how other vegans manage!

I was going to join up to the Aussie veg*n society forums but it doesn't like hotmail addresses and I'm not sure I can be bothered to go sign up to another just for one forum!

I read something about Vegemite being vegan only half of the year though - what is that about?!

[Roxy]

Hi Jamie

I'm glad you made it back safe and sound! I was talking to my parents yesterday and they said it's been quite hot there. Are you surviving ok in the heat?

I'm sure as you settle in, finding vegan options will be easier. You'll have to let us know about where we can go for vegan eating (eg, restaurants etc) as my b/f and I will be visiting there for 2 or 3 weeks in October.

From memory - Eve knows something about the vegemite.....I can't quite remember what it was all about.

[Gorilla]

hey Jamie, glad to hear you made it over there ok! hope you settle in soon. good luck, keep us posted

[absentmindedfan]

Glad you made it over Jamie

[RedWellies]

As Roxy says, you'll soon settle back in to a routine, so don't panic! Just do the best you can for now. Glad you finished your mamouth journey safely!

[aubergine]

Congrats on the move

I hope you settle in well.

[fiamma]

Really glad you made it Jamie, hope you start feeling at home soon, I've been thinking about you!!! Take care and keep us posted

[harpy]

Well done, Jamie! I expect some Australians will be along to spill the beans on their survival techniques soon. Hope you have fun.

[Jamie]

awww bless, thanks everyone for your kind messages! I didn't expect to see so many of you over on the Aussie forum

I will definately come back when we've got some more time!

[eve]

I read something about Vegemite being vegan only half of the year though - what is that about?!

It's because for half the year, the manufacturers use all the huge bins and cooking utensils for meat spreads. During that period, Jewish people keeping kosher can't use the vegemite, so there is a code mark 'K' near the date on the jar. And that means it is the kosher half of the year!

As for dining out, here's a url from the vege/vegan Soc of Qld that gives info on restaurants. I don't know how current it is as restaurants frequently change hands. But at least, it gives a clue. http://www.vegsoc.org.au/restaurants.asp

[Jamie]

I don't understand how the meat gets mixed in with the vegimite - how does it work? do they have big vats and one has meat spread and the next has vegimite and there's a person going along with a big spoon to stir them and doesn't clean it off in between vegimite and meat spread?? It's very confusing - I need a tour of the vegimite factory to understand it!

[eve]

No Jamie, they use the same vat - half the year making the meat spread and half the year making the vegemite. Not everyone wants to eat vegemite that has been made in a vat that was previously used for meat, however thoroughly it has been cleaned. It is far better to eat Marmite that is always vegan in Australia.

[cedarblue]

excellent info - thanks eve - even if i don't live there!!

[Jamie]

But marmite is horrible! So why is only half of the vegimite vegan when they sell it all year??? Shouldn't it be technically vegan always? How do they make it Kosher???

Sorry for all the questions, I just can't get my head around it!!

[Jamie]

yeah, I think what I don't understand is - do they only make vegimite during half of the year, when the vats aren't used for meat spread, and therefor isn't the same 6-month batch of vegimite on the shelves all year around anyway? What is the difference in the kosher and non-kosher vegimite?

[Campbell]

This is why I have my toast with jam!

[Campbell]

But hey Jamie, welcome down under! Let us know if you're coming to Melbourne. At the risk of sounding parochial, we're way more cool than Queenslanders. Just kidding... It's probably not so bad up there if you like the beach.

[eve]

Hi Jamie - where do you come from? You ask: "What is the difference between kosher and non-kosher vegemite?" The difference is that non-kosher means there is meat used, so non-kosher for the Jewish people is also not kosher for us!

By the way, I used to eat Marmite, which tastes ok to me, but now I use a spread called "Vege Spread" which looks like vegemite, tastes like vegemite, is vegan, and has no yeast.

[Roxy]

Eve.....thanks for posting that list of restaurants. It'll be a nice help for me when I'm there in October. Maybe you and I could go to one!

[eve]

I sure hope so Roxy - I can take an early morning train to Brisbane, that arrives before 10am, then the 5pm train back home to Maryborough. That should give us plenty of time to explore!

[Roxy]

That Forest place in West End looks quite good! It's quite handy to the city centre too. I'm sure we'd be able to get a bus, or a ferry there......or failing that, I'm hoping to have a rental car for the duration of my visit.

Maybe Jamie can test all the restaurants out for us, and let us know which one is the best!

[puffin]

So pleased to hear your there safe. Wow, what a change of lifestyle for you. How are things going now? Are you feeling settled?

[Jamie]

So is there an animal product in the vegimite that doesn't have 'K' on the label?

I just don't understand the problem

Puffin I'm feeling crap right now but hopefully in a few weeks things will seem better!!!! I hate all the stress of it.

[eve]

Jamie, they use the same vat - half the year making the meat spread and half the year making the vegemite. Not everyone wants to eat vegemite that has been made in a vat that was previously used for meat, however thoroughly it has been cleaned.

No, there's no animal product in Vegemite - what is it that you don't understand? Am I not writing in plain English? Perhaps you're still suffering jet lag

[Jamie]

No, it's just that all this stuff about 'vegimite is only vegan for half the year' and that it's K for Kosher, but K is only half of the year, and then if it's not kosher, that probably means some sort of meat in it, but then you say that there's no animal product any time of the year...

do you see why I'm confused?? I think what I was mainly trying to ask is why the jars that do not have 'K' on them wouldn't be vegan. But you've just said they are always vegan, so does that mean the K doesn't matter at all??

Or did you mean K for Kosher as in a joke rather than litterally, and when you say there is no animal products, you refer to the half of the year when the K appears, but then I still don't know why there is other vegimite about that appears vegan but apparently isn't!!

I have been using some that had no K on it, because I had never heard about that, but am about to run out - so should I be looking for a jar with K on it or not be bothered?

[sandra]

Hi Jamie, I think it's like when you said about them using the same utensils to give you your salad that they used for non vegan food. It's because the vats at one time had meat in them and although they are probably cleaned to some extent, then have the vegemite in them.
So, maybe it's a case of you just don't know if on that particular day the vegemite might have been made in a vat that had earlier had meat spread in it. I think this is what Eve is saying.
It's good to hear from you again and that you are settling in over there. I hope I haven't confused you even more, maybe I've got the whole wrong end of the stick about the vegemite!

[Jamie]

Hmmm well I think I would be quite confident that they must have to clean them out properly or it would affect the product quality of the vegemite, as well as legal ramifications surely. But I'd like to see what Eve says because she's trying so hard to help me understand

Thanks for the reply Sandra

[sandra]

Yes, you would think they would clean them out properly. It would be interesting to know what the company that makes it has to say about it! I'm sure if we really looked into the background of things we eat, there are plenty of vegan products that are made alongside non vegan ones, sadly it's just the world we are living in.
I've never tried vegemite, is it nicer than marmite? I sort of like marmite but only in very small doses!

[eve]

Jamie. since you say that you'd like a word from me again, even though I thought it was clear, I'll give you a quote from my posting sometime in 2003 to a question on the Qld Veggie/Vegan forum:

Hi, this will be my last post on the subject, as the info will go into the Q&A section shortly. This post is to inform the vegemite users that Kraft Vegemite is affected by animal residue of a similar product for 6 months of the year. If you see a ′K′ beside the USE BY DATE, then it is OK. Otherwise it is not. Australian Marmite by Sanitarium is always free of meat.

Yes Jamie, I'm sure they wash their vats, but would you want to eat something that had been made in a vat, that had previously had a meat product in it? By the way, Kosher is not a joke, the K is there to reassure Jewish people that there is no animal product present. If you're eating from a jar of vegemite without a K, you're taking a risk. Why not go Marmite or Veggie Spread?

Good luck.

[Jamie]

even though I thought it was clear

no! sorry! but I think we may be talking slightly at crossed purposes and I may as well just buy the 'K' vegemite rather than try to keep questioning it.

I'm sure they wash their vats, but would you want to eat something that had been made in a vat, that had previously had a meat product in it?

I just find that that happens a lot anyway, that we probably just don't know about it. I'd just be concerned that it is properly cleaned & sanitised and that there shouldn't be a risk of cross-contamination.

By the way, Kosher is not a joke, the K is there to reassure Jewish people that there is no animal product present.

I didn't mean to offend, I just didn't understand if you meant Kosher, literally, as in the Jewish rules for food, or using it as a word for 'OK' as some people do. Because I imagine something could be Kosher (lit) but not vegan? I think they eat meat but not pork?

If you're eating from a jar of vegemite without a K, you're taking a risk. Why not go Marmite or Veggie Spread?

I'm not clear on what the risk is though - because vegemite should be technically vegan all year around, what do they do differently in the six months of making Kosher vegemite? I think this is the centre of my query which I haven't understood the answer to/answer hasn't been addressed.

I think Marmite is horrible, but I may try one of the vegemite-similar spreads in the future. But, to be honest, when there are so many issues finding vegan food as a new vegan (I'm not that new, but in a new country), there is something I like that has always been part of my life and turns out is vegan-ok, I'd quite like to keep eating it, rather than deny myself something I love when I've done that so many times over already. But I suppose each individual has to set up a point where they say 'I've done enough now' or you'll always be feeling guilty that you aren't doing enough, or spend all of your time searching out what is vegan/eco/welfare superior.

I didn't mean to start a 'discussion' (!) but I'm just trying to understand it fully so that I can make an informed decision on what is right for me. Thanks for trying though!

[aidan]

I think it's just better not to buy vegemite (owned by a multinational tobacco company)... and anyway sanitarium marmite (which tastes better in my opinion ) is a reliable source of B12 (which vegemite is not)

[eve]

You didn't mean to start a discussion, but perhaps it has ended now? By the way, you say that you "imagine something could be Kosher (lit) but not vegan? I think they eat meat but not pork?" Yes something could well be kosher but not vegan, and they do eat meat that they consider kosher (if the animal is also killed in some ritual way just as the muslims do). To me, killing is killing whether it is done ritualistically or not - it is all cruel.

[Jamie]

indeed In fact I think the ritualistic killing is usually worse for the animals.

[eve]

This is the final word on the subject of vegemite! Today I had a chat with the customer relations person, Barbara, at Kraft because I told them that our exchange of emails was not terribly satisfactory to me. So they gave me an 1800 number and invited me to ring. Which I did.

In the opinion of Kraft, ALL vegemite is suitable for vegans. As to the 'K' appearing on the 175g jars, it is to assure Jewish people that the product is kosher. As to why those jars are kosher and no others, Barbara said that to get kosher certification, the linings of pipes, machinery, etc, all had to be washed to the specifications set by the Board certifying kosher.

I asked if this means that other sized jars, and jars without the 'K' are not cleansed effectively? The answer is that they are, but not to those specific standards.

As to the 6 months, apparently this is something that has been said about the 'K' marking, but it applies all year round.

So, Jamie, if you are unfazed by vegemite that does not have the 'K' marking, that's fine. Hope this now satisfies you. Cheers