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Vegans and eggs - Page 11
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Thread: Vegans and eggs

  1. #501
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    gotta say, i agree with you zan - it's just idealism to think that animals can all instantly be set free, or that they can or should be treated exactly like humans.

    i would like to see an end to all animal exploitation, including the keeping of 'pets' (our fettered friends) but i don't see them as mini humans either.

    if people were to treat all animals (not just the cute ones!) with respect, and all 'farm' animals were truly free ranging, it would still be wrong that they were being 'kept' against their will, and it would still be wrong that they were killed. it would, however, be an improvement on factory farming, and it might well be the first step to people really thinking about animals as sentient beings. thinking about animals this way would hopefully make people go a little further with their thoughts until they arrive at veganism.

    however, i also see your point Korn in that veganism as a movement, needs to hammer home the message that it is morally unnacceptable to use/restrain/incarcerate animals for food or entertainment, or science.

  2. #502
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    btw, i had a similar argument once with another vegan that i knew in 'real life' who accused me of being a 'welfarist'. ironically, he had been involved in the 'liberation' of many animals who then found themselves needing the care and attention of 'welfarists' like me .

  3. #503
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    i just had a thought on this - for me it's a bit like my feeling on 'pet' keeping. i am no longer happy with the notion, however, i accept that people keep pets and for that reason i would always campaign for greater 'rights' for pets, eg right to be exercised and not kept on chains, etc, even though, ultimately, i would like to see the end of captivity for all animals.

    yes, we should not be afraid to have 'extreme' views but also, with respect, if you alienate the majority of the population instead of trying to find some ground to start from then you risk a totall lack of respect for the vegan movement which could be harmful for animals in the short term, if not the long term, too.

  4. #504
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Quote Zan View Post

    I did say right at the very beginning "truly" free range. I am not talking about keeping animals in slightly larger cages. I don't know why you have labelled me as "welfarist" because that is not where I am coming from.
    I didn't label you welfarist or suggested that you talk about slightly larger cages, but I'm asking two questions: Is it realistic to assume that converting commercial farming into a model that hardly is profitable will be realized? What does your potentially different viewpoint mean in real life terms? My viewpoint is that opinions more or less have no value unless they are converted into actions, which is why I'm (still) curious about your answer...

    Birds and animals have feelings, just like humans, and I don't think a life in a concentration camp, where you regularly see your mates disappear in large amounts belongs to the same sentence as 'good quality life'.
    Yes they certainly have feelings, but not exactly like humans---that verges on anthropomorphism.
    Not exactly like us, but (sorry, a third question) is that really relevant? They don't want to be killed for food or overproduce eggs or be milked constantly, so - do we need more about how close their feelings are to humans' feelings?

  5. #505
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Quote cobweb View Post
    gotta say, i agree with you zan - it's just idealism to think that animals can all instantly be set free
    I think everyone will agree that it's totally unrealistic, but since I think of idealism as a generally good thing, I'll skip commenting if it's idealistic or not.

    it would, however, be an improvement on factory farming, and it might well be the first step to people really thinking about animals as sentient beings.
    It wouldn't be a first step, and that's where I may disagree with some of you (or not). Before animals are treated with more respect, a change of attitude, a different (human) view on animals has to exist first. Most people are lazy, and don't want to change lifestyle or viewpoints, even if they know it would make them happier and healthier. If someone is going to do anything to change how they look at animals, we should IMO promote the right thing - right from the start - the effect of what environmentalists or vegans or fair trade promoters will in most cases only be received with reduced effect anyway.

  6. #506
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Quote Korn View Post
    I think everyone will agree that it's totally unrealistic, but since I think of idealism as a generally good thing, I'll skip commenting if it's idealistic or not.

    actually i like that - so many people are critical of idealism, but if you haven't got any ideals then what have you got?

  7. #507
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    True. In my ideal world, Zippy wouldn't exist.
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  8. #508
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    Default Re: What do you think of Organic/free range meat?

    Quote Billy View Post
    Using marginally better living conditions as an excuse to keep eating animals is totally lame. And as has been said, there are no real regulations for it anyway. That's how an RSPCA "Freedom Foods affiliated chicken farm turned out as being a battery farm without wire between the chickens! As far as I'm concerned, unless the animal involved is a cute, cuddly "pet", that cannot be gained from financially, who is on death's door because of abuse, they do not have to count on the RSPCA for any sympathy, let alone action. And Compassion in World Farming to me is a contradiction in terms.
    Is recycling an excuse to use plastic carrier bags rather than re-usable ones?
    I understand that this example is not a life or death issue; and I realize that is the whole point of being opposed to ethical meat. Thing is I rather doubt that the thought process of "its okay because they animal is treated better" comes into play with most people. I doubt most people ever questioned whether or not it is okay to kill animals.
    I would never ear meat, unless to save my own life...but for the people that I love who still eat meat.., for them I would rather they were not eating hormones and for my peace of mind I'd rather that they at least think they are eating *happy meat*.
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

  9. #509
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Quote RedWellies View Post
    True. In my ideal world, Zippy wouldn't exist.

    are you Bungle using the alias 'Red Wellies'?

  10. #510
    littlewinker
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Simple: the egg/dairy industries couldn't exist without the chicken and beef ones.

    Imagine if all meat were to be banned, but not milk and eggs.

    There would be too many males, specially for chickens as 60% of fertilized eggs become males. They would have to be slaughtered.

    My veggie mum keeps trying to tell herself that they would use artificial insemination and filter the sprem to only produce females. This wouldn't happen, it's too expensive. And fucking weird and unethical in itself in my opinion.

    So many many many males would have to be slaughtered.

    Even if you have a rescued happy pet chicken and eat its eggs, just think, that could not have happened without the egg/chicken industry.

    Currently, if you eat eggs, remember that they are slaughtered at 16-18 months as after this age their eggs are less likely to be perfect.

    nd as for dairy, remember that cows are slaughtered after they finish making milk, and are kept milking continually and have their babies taken away so humans can have the milk instead, and dairy cows are the mothers for all the meat cows, bulls and calves.

    Not forgetting greenness reasons.

    there are simply not enough resources in the world to feed the unnatural amount of livestock. So why hasn't anything happened then? It has - global warming. The Govenments likes to hide this for fear of scaring people off being green but the meat industry is a MAJOR cause of global warming. I'm going to find out the statistics soon but livestock is resonsible for at least 25% of greenhouse gases, I'l find out the true figures soon which are definately higher than 25%.

  11. #511
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Quote littlewinker View Post
    Not forgetting greenness reasons.

    there are simply not enough resources in the world to feed the unnatural amount of livestock. So why hasn't anything happened then? It has - global warming. The Govenments likes to hide this for fear of scaring people off being green but the meat industry is a MAJOR cause of global warming. I'm going to find out the statistics soon but livestock is resonsible for at least 25% of greenhouse gases, I'l find out the true figures soon which are definately higher than 25%.
    the statistics are here:

    http://www.fao.org/ag/magazine/0612sp1.htm
    http://www.activeg.org/articles/437.html

    and you can also download the full report: livestock long shadow

  12. #512
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Where is the post by Karmacake?!?!?!


  13. #513
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    It really comes down to this concept of "Happy Meat" that a lot of companies are pushing, where they have simply divised a niche for those people don't want to go vegetarian and feel ok about eating animal products as long as the animal was treated well before slaughter.

    To me, it makes no difference ethically, it is still needless slaughter and as long as animals are kept and raised by us for food they are still being expolited in some way, even if this exploitation is to a lesser extent I still don't feel it is justified.

    Some of the manufacturers of these "Happy Meat" products, believe they are "meeting vegans half way", I don't think they are personally, however Peta often seem to be supporting the concept, another example of where I don't agree with them.

    I guess if this is the first step toward relieving animal cruelty then it's a good first step, although a very small one.

    In should be noted however that the only way organic free range meat production is sustainable across the board is if mass amounts of people stop eating meat, the reason that modern agriculture is profitable is because of the horrific processes involved with factory farming because it can be done quickly.

    Free range farming cannot be carried out on the same scale as factory farming is performed now, it would not be able to cope with present demand and would be unprofitable unless prices were greatly increased.

    The ethical choice is clear, end human imposed animal suffering.

  14. #514
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Quote Manzana View Post
    Where is the post by Karmacake?!?!?!

    Hi,
    two posts were recently removed from this thread; one about 'not having a problem with meat' and not supporting 'the industry' until it changes, and another one about loving eggs/dairy/yoghurt combined with statements like "I would eat very differently if I had access to my own chickens and cows".
    After all - this is a forum for vegans - and vegans do 'have a problem' with meat - and vegans don't use eggs or milk from 'their own' chickens and cows...

  15. #515
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Thanks Korn
    You were too quick for me to get an angry reply in!

  16. #516
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs / meat unethical?

    Eli, I'm with Eve on that one. Even if you drink 'organic' milk (which, I imagine, simply means the cow wasn't fed steroids and growth hormone, not that it lived any sort of natural life) and only eat free-range eggs (which, are in fact, doubtfully truly free-range), you're still doing one thing that most vegans refuse to do.

    That is, putting cash in the pockets of people that kill animals.

    As Eve pointed out, as soon as the cow stops producing enough milk, she's sent to slaughter. Likewise for chickens and eggs, free range or not.

    I'm not going to touch on honey - but only because I'm currently somewhat uneducated on the subject.


    As for the original topic, well, I think that my response above covers eggs..

    However, even 'organic' meat is unethical, because 1) it's not a natural life, and 'organic' used in that sense basically just means it wasn't fed steroids, growth hormone, ecetera. Plus, how ethical can it truly be to have an innocent slaughtered for ten minutes of sensory pleasure? I mean, really. You can't say that a good tasting meal is worth a life. That's pure selfishness - and yet another reason I find meat-eaters that refuse to even consider changing absolutely despicable.

    Meh.

  17. #517
    Dylan Mulenburg
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs / meat unethical?

    Of course factory farmed meat is worse, however there are nearly no regulations for "free range." Let's say there are 10,000 chickens and they are given 100 square feet outside that is cleaned barely once every few months. Their meat/eggs can be considered "free range." And even if you know it is free range, the animals are still killed. Is it okay if I kill a human just because they have had a good life up until that point? No. So it's not okay to kill a cow, chicken, pig, fish, or any other animal even if they had a good life up until that point.

    Edit: Add to this, free range animals, even if raised on small family farms, are generally killed at the same slaughterhouses where they are ripped apart, scaulded, shot, have their skin torn off, are electrecuted, have their heads ripped off, and much more while still alive, which sometimes kills them and sometimes doesn't (of course, ripping their heads off does--and yes, slaughterhouse workers have been seen by secret investegators ripping off the heads of live chickens and writing graffiti with their blood)

  18. #518
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  19. #519

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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs / meat unethical?

    organic eggs and meat are unethical because the animals are still killed needlessly and buying them makes you complicit in that

  20. #520
    Keane
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs / meat unethical?

    Quote RhegHimself View Post
    organic eggs and meat are unethical because the animals are still killed needlessly and buying them makes you complicit in that
    Agreed, it is largely a 'feelgood' factor that is at work; those who eat 'organic' meat like to believe that it is 'friendly' meat as though the animals have voluntarily given up their lives for humans to eat them.

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  21. #521
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs/meat unethical?

    Ditto response below.

    Quote Zero View Post
    It really comes down to this concept of "Happy Meat" that a lot of companies are pushing, where they have simply divised a niche for those people don't want to go vegetarian and feel ok about eating animal products as long as the animal was treated well before slaughter.

    To me, it makes no difference ethically, it is still needless slaughter and as long as animals are kept and raised by us for food they are still being expolited in some way, even if this exploitation is to a lesser extent I still don't feel it is justified.

    Some of the manufacturers of these "Happy Meat" products, believe they are "meeting vegans half way", I don't think they are personally, however Peta often seem to be supporting the concept, another example of where I don't agree with them.

    I guess if this is the first step toward relieving animal cruelty then it's a good first step, although a very small one.

    In should be noted however that the only way organic free range meat production is sustainable across the board is if mass amounts of people stop eating meat, the reason that modern agriculture is profitable is because of the horrific processes involved with factory farming because it can be done quickly.

    Free range farming cannot be carried out on the same scale as factory farming is performed now, it would not be able to cope with present demand and would be unprofitable unless prices were greatly increased.

    The ethical choice is clear, end human imposed animal suffering.

  22. #522
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs / meat unethical?

    ^ I agree. I may have a dilema soon in that my boss is considering stocking free-range/organic meat in the shop where I work (a health food shop which has always been meat-free). I'm really not sure that I can handle it. If an animal must be kept for 'food' purposes then yes it's better the animal is reared free-range and well looked after, but the point is that we know that animals don't have to be used like this atall as there is no need for them to figure in the modern human food chain.

  23. #523
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs / meat unethical?

    Viva! managed to get their pictures of male chicks being disposed of into today's Independent as part of an article about poultry welfare standards. I think that's an important achievement as a lot of people don't think about this side-effect of their egg eating (which unfortunately applies to even the more "humane" forms of egg production if they are to be economically viable). A lot of people will be more shocked by it than by the stuff about stocking densities etc although that's bad enough.

    Warning: upsetting material and images http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...n-2124580.html

  24. #524
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs / meat unethical?

    ^^

    Well said harpy.

    lv

  25. #525
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs / meat unethical?

    One reason to oppose organic/'happy'/whatever meat ...

    In the muddied waters of the meat eaters mind so long as just one 'humanely' produced chicken fillet/rump steak/sausage has ever existed then every chicken fillet/rump steak/sausage that THEY ever eat is that particular chicken fillet/rump steak/sausage.

    In every meat eaters mind it is always the OTHER muddy-b'stard who eats the unnaceptably produced stuff. Like the bloke at the table next to them in the local Kentucky Fried Cruelty may be eating a chook that suffered awfully but the chicken in their own bargain bucket had a wonderfull life (university education, fullfilling career, house with a pool, nice car, travelled widely .. etc) and then sacrificed itself, in a final act of gratitude, to repay humanity for our kindness to it.

    Point being that, in a world full of idiots, you give ground that there is any acceptable way of producing meat and all meat THEY will ever eat could not possibly have been produced any other way.

    It's kinda like for as long as the illusion is maintained that any animal has lived and died in happy-farm-heaven then NO animal will ever be acknowledged as having lived and died in hell.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  26. #526
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    Default Re: Why are organic eggs / meat unethical?

    What "proves" meat-eaters that the corpse they're eating is the one of an animal that lived a 'happy' life is beyond me. They know nothing about what happened to the animal. And it's highly unlikely that it was 'happy'.
    "The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men." ~Alice Walker.

  27. #527
    littlemiss
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    Default Vegan friendly eggs?

    I stumbled across this website yesterday. They sell rescue hen eggs. My personal objection to eggs is the unnatural treatment in this country and slaughter of unwanted male chicks, however this site claims not to do any of that and uses rescue hens, so claiming they are vegan friendly and that some vegans buy the eggs.

    Just open for discussion. Don't go getting scary vegan on us though...
    Ps sorry if the link doesn't work, I tried!

  28. #528

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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    Personally I would still not touch them with a barge pole.
    I appreciate that they are not being treated cruelly (allegedly), but I don't think we have any right to take eggs that belong to another animal, I also see eggs as still being animals (albeit undeveloped), and I dont like the idea of eating anything which comes out of another animals backside.

  29. #529
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    I totally agree Firestorm. Don't see how the people who eat these, or any other eggs, can call themselves vegans. As far as I can understand, they are vegetarians.

    Leedsveg

  30. #530
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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    Quote Firestorm View Post
    I also see eggs as still being animals (albeit undeveloped), .
    Just out of curiosity, are you pro choice? Not that it really matters, eating eggs is still wrong to me, but this is something I have a really hard time explaining to non-vegans, the idea that eating non fertilized rescue eggs is wrong. I generally go down the path of, its just not right to take something that doesn't belong to us.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

  31. #531

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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    What happens if you don't take the eggs from chickens? If I understand birds right they will lay a full nest and start breeding. These eggs aren't fertile, so if I understand chickens right they end up eating them theirselfs.

    So by taking the eggs away, wouldn't you prevent a full nest and thus putting a strain on the body of the chicken to keep producing eggs. By all means rescue chicken (as long as you don't buy them from batteries, because then you just create demand) but let them do their own thing. Feed them, love them, interact with them if they are up for it, but just let them be.

  32. #532
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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    good argument, I think i will start using that one. Thanks CoolCat. I've never really researched that before.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

  33. #533

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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    Very good point coolcat!

    Quote missbettie View Post
    Just out of curiosity, are you pro choice?
    I don't really know ( I have spent hours thinking about it but can never come to a conclusion) - its such a sensitive and difficult subject, I would rather not discuss it.

  34. #534
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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    ya, I kind of feel the same way...you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

  35. #535
    CuddlyChicken
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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    .............
    Last edited by CuddlyChicken; Jun 26th, 2012 at 10:33 AM.

  36. #536
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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    but by definition if you eat eggs, regardless of where they came from, you wouldn't be Vegan.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

  37. #537
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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    ^ what she said
    Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk

  38. #538
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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    I agree its a difficult one to explain if the chickens just lay the egss anyway but in nature they lay far fewer eggs, and sometimes none, especially winter. I don't think its good idea to encourage eggs consumption, or we end up with industrialisation of animals all over again. I still feel this feeds the business that kills the male chicks far down the line.
    I tried ackee last year which was supposed to taste eggy. It was disgusting so I think i've adjusted to no eggs.
    I'm pleased the ex-batt's have somewhere nice to go.

  39. #539
    Crusty Rat
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    Default Re: Vegan friendly eggs?

    Q) Vegan Friendly eggs?
    A) Vegan's don't eat eggs.

    I agree with the above that it's promoting eating eggs which is clearly a slippery slope. I don't have much experience with chickens but I've heard from friends that if you drop the eggs on the floor the chickens peck them right up, so I figure they'd enjoy them more than I would. Personally I'm not rushing to eat anything that came out a rescue bird's back end any quicker than I am to eat anything that came out the back end of my rescue rabbit.

  40. #540
    splodge
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    Default Re: Vegan friendly eggs?

    The hens are rescue hens and the eggs are incidental but eating eggs would not have been possible without the death of some males, even if it was nothing to do with you. Vegans catergorically don't eat animal products.

    Plus chickens have one hole for everything so the eggs come out of the same place as their shit. And it's basically a chickens period.

  41. #541
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegan Friendly eggs?

    Quote missbettie View Post
    but by definition if you eat eggs, regardless of where they came from, you wouldn't be Vegan.
    That's true - you wouldn't be a vegan if you ate eggs from any chicken... I've merged this thread with a couple of other threads about eggs - with many posts explaining why vegans don'teat eggs at all.

    For other reasons (valid for non-vegans as well) to stop using eggs, look eg. here:
    20-30 types of cancer and animal products (eggs, fish, milk, meat)

    ETA: More here.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  42. #542
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    Default Re: Vegans and eggs

    Humans don't even need eggs. Plus, eggs have high cholesterol and fat causing some serious health problems.

  43. #543

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    Default Re: Vegans and eggs: here's the short, one-paragraph version!

    If there is a supply and demand of ANYTHING, as humans, greed sets in and we do all we can possible to exploit it to the max. Chickens are stuffed in a cage and don't leave their whole lives...there are thousands in a warehouse with no windows so you can't see this in action...you can't see the birds laying in their own shit with cuts and bruises and broken bones TRYING to get out. Some are put with other hens so at some point their beaks were burned off with no form anesthesia so they won't peck at each other. If you ask for organic, and if enough people demand it, someone will supply it. I can't make anyone change their lifestyle... but geeze would it hurt you to get something "better" and go to a local farmers market?

  44. #544

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    Default Concerning Eggs

    Hello all. I am new here so forgive me if I've put this in the wrong section or if this has been asked. I am recently vegan and have a question about eggs. I realize many vegans don't condone eating eggs for the ethical reasons, or the means by which the eggs are harvested, and I completely understand.


    That being said, I'd like your opinions on the following matter:


    My family owns about 40 acres and we are situated somewhere near the center and I was thinking of buying a chicken from a local farmer. The farmer told me that the chickens will not stray very far from their roosting area/coop, and he just allows his chickens to roam freely. My plan was to set up a coop/roosting area and have the chicken get accustomed to it, and just let the chicken roam freely, but collect the eggs (and eat them)


    I was curious if it's "acceptable" in your opinions to eat eggs under these conditions, and still be considered "vegan"


    Thanks for any input.
    Last edited by Korn; Apr 1st, 2014 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Thread merged with other thread containing many reasons not to use eggs

  45. #545

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    Default

    Hi kalilkyo,
    Vegan is no animal products regardless of how raised or obtained. Not saying that your plan of obtaining a chicken and raising it, is wrong. Just that eating ANY animal products is not vegan.


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  46. #546
    tickled onion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerning Eggs

    what did the farmer do with the male chicks that don't lay eggs....? did he castrate them to fatten them for meat or did he kill them after sexing because they are no use to him... I cant imagine he has lots of roosters about the place, worrying the hens, fighting and crowing all the time. There is no such thing as an ethical egg, billions of male chicks are killed because they serve no purpose to the industry/farmer
    "when the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace" Jimi Hendrix

  47. #547
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerning Eggs

    Quote Kalikyo View Post
    Hello all. I am new here so forgive me if I've put this in the wrong section or if this has been asked. I am recently vegan and have a question about eggs. I realize many vegans don't condone eating eggs for the ethical reasons, or the means by which the eggs are harvested, and I completely understand.
    There is a further reason why vegans don't eat eggs, Kalikyo.

    Enough eggs for all is NOT ethicaly/moraly/whateverly sustainable.

    Eggs for me but no eggs for you is a double standard. One rule for one/some and another rule for others. A blatant hypocracy.

    It's a simple case of if a thing becomes wrong if everyone does it then no right minded person should do it.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  48. #548
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerning Eggs

    Another reason that I wouldn't do it myself is that it might give non-vegans the impression that we need to eat eggs, which obviously we don't.

    I like hens though - if I had room I'd get some rescue hens from an intensive farm (and not eat the eggs )

  49. #549
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans and eggs

    I think the vegan ethos of not using any animal products can seem rather simplistic and dogmatic but the universal truth is that whenever animals (or parts thereof) are 'used' it's never for their benefit.
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

  50. #550
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans and eggs

    Quote Risker View Post
    I think the vegan ethos of not using any animal products can seem rather simplistic and dogmatic but the universal truth is that whenever animals (or parts thereof) are 'used' it's never for their benefit.
    True. The 'argument' which sometimes pops up about eggs is that if one picks egg from "happy" hens, it won't harm anyone - but the fact is that whenever someone has access to animal products which they assume can be consumed without causing any harm, it would much better to hand these over (sell, give a way...) to someone who aren't vegans, with the result that these non-vegans would spend less money on supporting factory farms, commercial egg production etc.

    Veganism was never about looking for "happy" in order to use their milk, eggs etc. We don't need animal products, we don't want to take their feathers/milk/eggs etc from them, and they certainly don't need our use of animal products. And if a hen starts producing more eggs if we take their eggs from them, we end up an overproduction which harms the poor birds and which nobody needs.

    Quote Kalikyo
    I was thinking of buying a chicken from a local farmer.
    That action, even before you 'own' the chicken, is a non-vegan action, because it helps people who make a living out of "producing" animals (and animal products) make more money on it. The point isn't that it's "non-vegan" though - it's that buying animals/birds etc contributes to the production of commercial animal products... and the "production" of animals. The core idea behind veganism is that if we don't support those who try to make money on animals, directly or indirectly, we contribute to making it less profitable and therefore less attractive to earn a living on making animal product, selling animals etc.

    Eggs aren't really useful for humans the B12 in them is kind of problematic (only circa 30% is absorbed), and we don't need them for other nutrients. So - why keep using then year after year anyway? It only takes a few weeks to break a habit.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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