Vegan protein

[Mystic]

From what I know about low G-I diets, I think they encourage the eating of wholegrains rather than refined carbs (eg, wholegrain breads and pasta rather than white breads and pasta). Is this true banana?

It depends on which GI plan you look at - on those fad GI diets, they will tell you to eat white spaghetti instead of potatoes, just coz the GI is a lot lower. They disregard the nutritional properties of potatoes, and the fact that white spaghetti has no nutritional value as such. In a good GI plan, they do encourage the consumption of whole grains, instead of refined grains. Another example is rice. A good GI plan will tell you to have brown rice, but a fad one will tell you to have white basmati rice. It can get a little confusing!

[adam antichrist]

All right, I looked it up, and now I know even less!
Blood sugar is a feedback mechanism, meaning that there are steroid regulators which keep the concentration more or less regular (Insulin when too high, glucagon when too low). Glucagon induces the liver to release more glucose into the blood, so I would assume this would also induce hunger if there is not sufficient glucose in the liver.

I don't know much about GI foods, but my understanding is a low GI food release the glucose slowly and stays in the liver longer so you don't get hungry as fast because the glucose is able to be released when glucagon signals are received by the liver. Lupin may work in this way.

I can't see anything in my first year bio book that explains sensations of hunger! Perhaps the new one I need to buy before the end of the month will have something on it.

[Tombstone]

Just got done reading this thread, it's pretty interesting. I often find that there is no agreement on the amount of protein 'required' by your body. I do believe it also matters what you're doing each day, what you hope to achieve, and how much muscle you have that needs to be sustained with protein. Body builders that I've talked to seem to suggest that you should eat at least 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight - but they are talking about someone who is lifting heavy weights frequently who is trying to get larger. Someone who doesn't lift anything heavy, who sits around a lot, who doesn't want to get bigger muscles, surely they don't need 1 gram per pound?

When I first started weight-lifting, I decided to find out about protein, and I read somewhere (I forget where, it was a long time ago) that an adult male needs roughly 60g per day and an adult female needs 50g per day. I just accepted this, and then calculated how many peanuts I would need to eat to reach this. So I ate 200g of peanuts everyday, along with some bread and sometimes pasta. During this period, I gained much muscle, and I as able to lift heavier and heavier weights very rapidly. These days I don't pay as much attention, and I worry about eating 200g of peanuts a day because that is quite a lot of fat (around 85g?). I take soya protein shakes, soy milk, some nuts here and there, brown rice, and soy substitute meats. But I don't feel like I do as well as I did when I was mainly eating peanuts :s

[Roxy]

Thanks Banana!

I have never heard of that lupin. I wonder how long it will take for them to Genetically Modify it (if they haven't already)!

[Kumem]

My blood tests came back as negative for diabetes. Today I seemed to develop severe hayfever all of a sudden and have been put on steroids and antihistamines. The doctor seems to think that the hazy head and the shaky feelings I was getting could be a lead up to this.
Have never had symptoms before and had no idea hayfever could make you feel so bad.

Liz

[Wishin986]

My mom was reading an excerpt from a book shes reading that said that you shouldn't eat soy protein everyday because if you eat too much it can do more harm than good. Grant it the book has a copy right date of 1999 so I'm sure much more research has gone into it and the theories have changed, but has anyone heard anything about this and what up to date studies have said about consuming too much soy, if there is such a thing? I eat tofu and soy ant least once a day.

[adam antichrist]

My mom was reading an excerpt from a book shes reading that said that you shouldn't eat soy protein everyday because if you eat too much it can do more harm than good. Grant it the book has a copy right date of 1999 so I'm sure much more research has gone into it and the theories have changed, but has anyone heard anything about this and what up to date studies have said about consuming too much soy, if there is such a thing? I eat tofu and soy ant least once a day.

Yes I've heard that as well, don't know if there's much to it. In reality it's probably not good to eat too much of anything. I figure if it's true, there'll be whole threads here on the dangers of soy like there are about the other vegan danger foods with hydrogenated oils etc. There are enough intelligent, well researched members here for basically any info relating to things affecting vegans that is more than six months old to be posted somewhere.

That doesn't mean everything will be, but if soy is harmful in large amounts I guarantee there'll be a discussion here somewhere (haven't looked myself).

[Wishin986]

That doesn't mean everything will be, but if soy is harmful in large amounts I guarantee there'll be a discussion here somewhere (haven't looked myself).

Found it! Seems to have a bunch of mixed opinions.

http://veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=626

[ukahela]

at the moment, i eat a little too little protein. my main source is soy protein powder, but i don't want to eat that in excess, or rely on only soya for protein. i eat nuts and seeds, but at the end of the day, a normal portion of those won't give me many grams of protein... i eat quinoa/amaranth/millet regularly, and they all have lysine so that's sth at least. and lentils. but i'd need some more concentrated sources, i think. any tips of proteiny foods/dishes? i'm not all that fond of beans...

[Artichoke47]

whole-wheat pasta, brown rice, oatmeal, whole-grain couscous, nutritional yeast

[ConsciousCuisine]

I would suggest using hemp protein powder over soy any day.

[ukahela]

oh, i didn't even know that existed! i don't think i can find it around here, though... but i'll keep my eyes open. hope it tastes better than the seeds, though! i don't like them, and i really love the taste of the soy protein in my soy yoghurt - aaah, it makes the yog so smooth, thick, creamy, flavourful....!

pasta and other grain products aren't the best sources... they don't have all aminos. complete protein is better absorbed. for most people that's not a problem, as you tend to eat a variety of things throughout the day and so get all the aminos. but if eating very small quantities of protein, it might be important to get complete protein so it is more efficiently utilised by the body. that's why buckwheat, quinoa, millet and amaranth are good options for grain foods. and gluten-free!

[harpy]

There are so many different beans - don't you like any of them? What about lentils? I suspect these naturally-occurring foods may be better for us than powdered this and that.

[Artichoke47]

you don't have to combine proteins; that's a myth.

actually, whole grains are an excellent source of protein. 1 serving contains 8 grams. the average woman only needs 40-50 grams per day.

check out goji berries if you want amino acids.

[ukahela]

as I said, I know you don't have to combine protein. But complete protein is more easily absorbed by the body, so while it isn't an issue for most people, for someone who eats little protein, it is.

harpy: it's true, there are lots of different beans. I do like to chick peas,I just happen to burn them each time I boil some...:/ I guess I have also gotten used not to eat beans much, as I've tried to follow food combination suggestions and beans are both starch and protein rich, which is supposed to be bad. I don't even believe all that much in that, and mainly tried it in the hope that it would work (and in some ways it does make digestions better), so really I should just get used to eat beans again. Anyway many times you acquire a taste for something precisely because you eat it. sprouting beans should also make them more digestible, and sprouting is so fun! said and done. tomorrow I will buy some beans and start sprouting

[harpy]

I couldn't believe in any eating plan that outlaws beans and lentils, they are a great food that people have been eating for millennia (although they have always made the odd rude remark about them - the Romans used to anyway I think).

You could always buy the tinned chickpeas as a last resort...I agree dried ones make more sense from a lot of points of view though.

Sprouting is an excellent plan - things taste less bean-y when they're sprouted, don't they? I find raw sprouted chick peas a little indigestible, so I usually cook them for a minute or two. But raw sprouted mung beans, e.g., seem to be OK for me.

My favourite is flageolet beans. Don't think you could sprout them though as they're an immature version of something else that escapes me.

[Korn]

Hi Ukahela, have you seen this list...?

[RedWellies]

avocados apparently contain easily digestible protein and lots of other good things!

[ukahela]

harpy: food combining advocates don't usually suggest not to eat beans or lentils (lentils I really like, by the way!), just that you shouldn't combine them with other starch or protein rich foods, and as that is quite a bit of a hassle, I have simply ended up not eating much of them. Come to think of it, I really like green peas, too! I make sprouted pea soup regularly, it is so delicious! and yes, sprouted beans do tend to taste less "beany"! boiling them just a little makes them nicer still. and i love seeing the little thingies grow!

and redwellies - avocados are just splendid! I eat them everyday, mmm!

[harpy]

food combining advocates don't usually suggest not to eat beans or lentils (lentils I really like, by the way!), just that you shouldn't combine them with other starch or protein rich foods

I forgive them then

It doesn't sound as if you're doing too badly for protein sources really - was there a particular reason you thought you weren't having enough?

[Pilaf]

Protein deficiency is really very rare, especially in the developed world. Some vegans become borderline hypochondriac with their protein, thinking they're deficient when they're really not.

It all depends on your lifestyle, really.. a bodybuilder or martial artist would obviously need more protein than an accountant, etc.

[ConsciousCuisine]

I suspect these naturally-occurring foods may be better for us than powdered this and that.

Yes, in general I agree but hemp protein powder is simply ground hemp seed, much like ground flax (linseed).

[harpy]

Yes, in general I agree but hemp protein powder is simply ground hemp seed, much like ground flax (linseed).

Oh, OK. Probably no more unnatural than, say, tofu then

[ukahela]

harpy and pilaf: some days I might eat enough protein. but many days I don't. I've actually also calculated the amount for some "typical" days and my protein intake is often quite low. it is all good and well that protein needs are sometimes exaggerated, but when I get less than half of the recommended 0.8 per cent/bodyweight, I really feel it is a little too little. Especially as I would like to eat a higher radio of protein to carbs, as many people with fibromyalgia seem to benefit from that.

I've got a lot of sprouts underway now, though! Sesame seeds, mung beans, sunflower seeds, and then the regular, alfalfa. mmm! I tried with kidney beans as well, but they must have been old or something, because they went bad. next will be chickpeas!

[harpy]

I think I feel better if I eat plenty of protein-rich foods (more than the recommended minimum) but as I'm always eating beans, nuts etc that's not normally a problem.

Good luck with the sprouts. I know some people sprout kidney beans but I wouldn't because of the reports of toxins in the raw beans - I wouldn't be confident that sprouting got rid of those. I suppose one could cook the sprouts though...

[Pete]

It's quite hard work to actually suffer protein deficiency (some alcoholics/drug abusers manage it though). Pat Reeves managed to win the last couple of British & European Powerlifting championships on a diet of under 30 grams of protein a day (she's had kidney issues that meant that she's had to work hard keeping her protein down!). But she's suffered no ill effects.
Getting enough protein for health is a doddle, when aiming at serious hypertrophy (muscle growth), then you need to plan a little more carefully (just as a meat-eater or veggie would have to).

The best way to eat for anyone (training or not) is to split their eating down up into several feeds a day (5+ feeds), this is closer to how we'd feed in the wild, a style of eating called "grazing". As you're eating so often having to have complete proteins every feed is pretty much eliminated, as long as you vary your protein sources thoughout the day. The only issue might be your first feed, which should be a complete protein, otherwise having say a sandwich at 10, then some tofu at 12, then lentils at 2, then mixed nuts at 4 , then mixed sprouts at 6 etc will easily keep your protein "banks" stocked with all the amino acids you'd need for training (or sitting about watching TV if that's your thing).
The complete protein every meal was a fallacy created by the anti-veg brigade to make people worry about there diets unnecessarily, you have an amino acid pool, that is amino acids are saved wihtin the body just incase you eat a meal where the amino acid profile is less than perfect, as long as you keep this pool topped-up daily by eating from a variety of sources thoughout the day, then you will not fail to absorb the maximum protein from every meal you eat.
There are some issues I'd worry about. My overall protein intake (if I was aiming at maximum hypertrophy, or dieting while trying to hold maximum muscle only), my balance of omega 3 to omega 6 fatty acids, regular B12 intake & eliminating my intake of transfatty acids. The rest is pretty much taken care of if you eat a fair amount of raw/lightly steamed veggies (especially green veggies), mix your proteins during the day & don't eat a ton of junk.
Protein is really a non-issue for a non-training vegan & should be no more of a worry than a veggies or meat-eating trainers (eating out, planning trips etc being obvious differences).

[Michael Benis]

Glad you posted abou thte AA pooll Pete, you just saved me the effort! Just one point though, it's over at least 24 hours not 12, so the old falacy about having to eat pulses and grains at one meal was completely nonsense (not that there's anything wrong with it as a meal, though!).

Cheers

Mike

[Korn]

Some more info about protein levels in mushrooms:

To begin with, mushrooms have a fairly high protein content, typically 20-30% crude protein as a percentage of dry matter. However there is extreme variation among species (3.5% in Cantharellus cibarius, 44% in Agaricus bisporus). High protein content makes them an ideal food because they contain all the amino acids essential to human nutrition. There are about eight essential amino acids, that is, those which cannot be produced by the human body, and so must be consumed in the diet daily.

More here.

[Kirska]

Out of all sources of protein, I think my favorite has to be raw peanuts, raw seeds (pumpkin, especially), and avocados. I just listed some of my favorite foods! Avocado isn't popular for protein, but it has protein, and it's my favorite fruit...so it's on the list! : P

I betcha most of my diet is made up of bananas, avocados, spinach/greens, peanuts, cashews, seeds, cacao, and beans/lentils. Mhm, high-fat diet, but I feel great! Gotta love tea sweetened with stevia, organic vegan vegetable soups, apples and pomegranate, too. Oh, and don't forget a mango or two.

Simple and effective. Veganism is great for healthy living, and raw food veganism is even better. Though I eat mixed foods (cooked and raw), most of my diet consists of raw foods. Organic, too. : )

Does anyone else here eat a mostly-raw vegan diet, or am I the only one with enough will power? heh (I'm lying. I love the taste of fresh fruit more than anything.)

[Tigerlily]

I have the will power I just prefer my food cooked. Taste preference.

[Roxy]

Does anyone else here eat a mostly-raw vegan diet, or am I the only one with enough will power? heh (I'm lying. I love the taste of fresh fruit more than anything.)

I admire your committment to healthy living

Perhaps eating a mostly-raw vegan diet isn't about will-power for a lot of people. It can also be about convenience, taste preferences etc.

[Kirska]

I don't understand! D: Why would anyone trade taste for a well working body??

[Roxy]

People can have well working bodies by eating cooked food too. If you're suggesting that they don't - then you're suggesting that most people here, don't have well working bodies. I'm sure they'll disagree with that!

[Kirska]

Wow... people around here sure are serious. ._.

[Roxy]

Well I thought you were being serious! Sorry - I didn't realise you were joking around

[Kiran]

I read this brief article in a newspaper this morning..

The bean full of protien

A Super bean packed with healthy ingrediants is sweeping the country. The edamame bean is the only vegetable to contain all nine amino acids, making it a complete protien source. Marks and Spencer, which stocks the beans, said "Shoppers are becoming more health-conscious and so the edamame has become very popular".

From http://www.foodreference.com/html/artbeansfresh.html

Edamame is of Chinese origin and was developed in Japan especially for eating out of the pod. Edamame is a variation on the same yellow and black field soybean that is transformed into many popular soy products such as tofu, miso, and soymilk. However, because of its recent introduction into the U.S. market, only a small percentage of U.S. soybean fields are devoted to growing edamame.

Some call edamame the super or wonder vegetable because it is the only vegetable that contains all nine essential amino acids. This makes edamame a complete protein source. Edamame also contains isoflavonoids.

[harpy]

Think they're probably the same as other soy beans with respect to protein content etc? I quite like them; they serve them in Wagamama as a starter if I remember correctly.

They also sell shelled ones, frozen, in our local H&B (I think it is) although I can't say I was all that keen on those. I suspect the Wagamama ones go down better because they're salty.

[Campbell]

Does anyone else here eat a mostly-raw vegan diet, or am I the only one with enough will power? heh (I'm lying. I love the taste of fresh fruit more than anything.)

The funny thing is, I need willpower to cook... I eat mostly fruit and the occasional piece of toast with tahini because it's easier, and that's all I usually feel like. I have vegies maybe 3-4 times a week which is about as often as I eat out, usually thai curry.

[anula]

i have studied nutrition vocationally for the last year and according to some extremely reputable establishments/nutritionists TOO MUCH protein will always be more of a danger than too little. Too much causes acidity in the blood which neutralises itself to a stable pH by using sodium and when supplies run out LEACHING calcium from your bones to stablise ACID BLOOD, caused by excessive protein. Tell your b'friend he is urinating valuble calcium out of his bones each time he gets this protein from meat/dairy....

mayeb check out some websites on blood pH, acidity levels and he can find alot of info that acid blood contributes to strokes,heart disease, massive cause of cancer and obviously things like osteporosis and arthritis which is seen in a high animal protein diet. i'd rather be a tad on the anaemic side if needs must. (which im not after years of being largely vegan.)

[jonnie falafel]

I pay absolutely no attention to the question of how much protein is in my diet & don't micromanage my diet at all. I do eat some foods with added B12, but I don't take supplements (protein or vitamins). I make a point of not buying stuff with extravagant health claims or the latest novel berries or whatever. A few years ago I took part in a study of vegans which looked at bone density, iron & b12 etc.... Mine were all well within the normal range.

21st century, first world the problems are about excess of calories from all sources.

[Professor Physics]

Howdy all,

I'm new to The Vegan Forum so please excuse my n00b-ness until I get the hang of this place

I'm having an on going debate with a friend of mine about protein. He's a professional fighter, and a butcher, so to him protein = meat. He's always telling me that a) I need at least 100g of protein a day, and b) that the only decent source of protein you can get is from meat (ie. vegetables have no protein, or that it's useless). Can anyone point me in the direction of some good online *scientific* resources that have information on exactly how much protein you need, what food sources provide the best quality protein and how protein consumption depends on the amount of physical exercise you do?

Thanks guys

Wade

PS. How do you start a new thread?

[jonnie falafel]

Howdy all,

I'm new to The Vegan Forum so please excuse my n00b-ness until I get the hang of this place

I'm having an on going debate with a friend of mine about protein. He's a professional fighter, and a butcher, so to him protein = meat. He's always telling me that a) I need at least 100g of protein a day, and b) that the only decent source of protein you can get is from meat (ie. vegetables have no protein, or that it's useless). Can anyone point me in the direction of some good online *scientific* resources that have information on exactly how much protein you need, what food sources provide the best quality protein and how protein consumption depends on the amount of physical exercise you do?

Thanks guys

Wade

PS. How do you start a new thread?

This, from the UK vegan society is a good starting point.

http://www.vegansociety.com/food/nutrition/protein.php

Hope you find it helpful.

[Vegan0011]

Hemp seeds are 25%-35% complete protein, like soya beans, but they don't have the trypsin inhibitors and oligosaccharides which impair digestion like soy. Their protein is in a particularly digestible and useful form, 65% is edestin. They also have perfectly-balanced omega fatty acids.

Here's an article about the nutrtional value of hemp seeds:

http://www.hempoilcan.com/nutri.html

it's very interesting, I think!

hi is this the link http://www.hempoilcan.com/Pages/NutrnCmpstn.html , when i clicked this one http://www.hempoilcan.com/nutri.html nothing came up maybe they changed it ,can you check and maybe post back the correct link from the hempoilcan site thankyou for the link

[puca]

My friend really annoyed me the other day by saying I am not getting any protein in my diet.

I'm 25 ffs, I took it to be quite patronising, even though it was well intended.

[paul46]

Hi, professor physics,
"at least 100grams of protein a day"
the average healthy adult, average lifestyle, not body builders,should be aiming for 10% of energy intake to be from protein equating to @55grams/day for women, 68grams/day for men, these recommened intakes can easily be satisfied by a vegan diet based mainly on cereals, potatoes(yes they do contain protein) pulses, nuts and oil seeds, supplemented by fruits and veg. all info quoted from following source:
the best- the best because its concise, clear, and understandable- nutrition advice i have ever found is in a book "The Vegan Cookbook" by AlanWakeman and Gordon Baskerville,ISBN 0-571-13820-9, i am on my third copy as people(meat eaters) keep swiping them, got the most recent one from amazon.
Paul, and the supplier of his food-his wife.

[pat sommer]

I gave up worrying about grams of this or that years ago; eat a wide variety of plants and the body knows what to do with it.

Protein was the nutritional buzz in the 70's then everyone clambered after vitamin C then B then E. Next it was fiber, poly unsaturated fats on and on

A group of moms here are going hysterical about Hormone D at the moment (they call it a vitamin) and don't even get me started on fish oils.

My daughter is growing well with this strategy too

[shellymi2nv]

i recently discovered chocolate hemp milk, so i guess i'm over-doing my omega requirements. tee hee

[ümlaut]

how do you know if you're lacking protein? (sorry if someone already answered that)

[pat sommer]

Well, technically with a urinalysis. Unscientifically, muscles wasting away, thin skin? Able to heal, maintaining hair and nail growth?

Basically, if someone is lacking in protein they will also be lacking in other aspects of diet such as calories or micro nutrients and it will show in health.

The body can marvelously adapt to stingy amounts of aminos and other molecules over time so no panic about dipping a bit from recommendations.

Any experts out there confirm my lamen answer?

[ümlaut]

haha im definitely getting enough calories (im a grub monster). but my old chiropractor said that you can see darker arcs of skin under the nail at the end of your nail if you're lacking protein.. and i've got those, but i feel alright. i guess ill just pay more attention to my protein intake.