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Thread: Vegan protein

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    Default Vegan protein

    Katiebelle Posted: Nov 10 2003, 02:42 AM

    I'm a new vegan and my boyfriend swears that it's not healthy. He says that I'm not going to be getting "complete" protiens, but just "incomplete protiens" from beans, broccoli and so forth. I read a study that gave a precent of protien needed (based on weight) per day and I needed like 50 some grams... which is like three packages of tofu a day! I know this is a kind of controversial debate between vegans and omnivores, so I was just wondering what you all had to say... I know it's going to be biased, because you're all vegan :wub: but, what can I say? hehe.



    artbeat Posted: Nov 10 2003, 03:22 AM

    Hi Katiebelle,

    Just tell him that 293 members of VeganForum can't be wrong

    Some vegan protein links:

    http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm
    http://www.naturodoc.com/library/nutrition/protein.htm
    http://www.peta.org/mc/facts/fsveg1.html

    The issue with vegan food is B12, not protein. But you have to eat a varied diet to stay healthy when you're vegan, just like if you had been an omni. The difference is that a varied vegan diet is more healthy than a varied omni diet...






    Mad101daN Posted: Nov 10 2003, 11:06 AM

    Ask your boyfriend if he thinks this guy gets enough protein.

    http://www.kennethwilliams.org/

    One of many vegan bodybuilders.

    P.S. Im not one of the many :P

    Dan



    Herb Albert Posted: Nov 10 2003, 12:02 PM

    QUOTE (Katiebelle @ Nov 10 2003, 02:42 AM)
    I'm a new vegan and my boyfriend swears that it's not healthy.

    I have an idea. Try to set up a phone meeting/protein+health discussion between your bf and these vegans:

    Sally Eastall, marathon runner
    Keith Holmes, former world champion middleweight boxer
    Carl Lewis, winner of nine Olympic Gold Medals and one of the greatest athletes of the twentieth century
    Martina Navratilova, champion tennis player - one of the most successful tennis players in history
    Dave Scott, six-time Ironman Champion and first inductee into the Ironman Hall of Fame
    Lucy Stephens, triathlete

    ..and discuss the subject with with him after that meeting. Maybe he has stopped swearing by then!




    PS -I found the list here: http://www.vegansociety.com/html/peo...festyle/sport/



    mattd Posted: Nov 10 2003, 02:50 PM

    QUOTE (Mad101daN @ Nov 10 2003, 11:06 AM)
    Ask your boyfriend if he thinks this guy gets enough protein.

    http://www.kennethwilliams.org/

    One of many vegan bodybuilders.

    P.S. Im not one of the many :P

    Dan


    just curious, how much protien do you generally intake per day?



    Smiley Posted: Nov 10 2003, 07:39 PM

    QUOTE (Katiebelle @ Nov 10 2003, 02:42 AM)
    I read a study that gave a precent of protien needed (based on weight) per day and I needed like 50 some grams... which is like three packages of tofu a day!


    Tofu is a great source of protein. But it depends on what brand you buy! My gf and I buy Calco firm tofu. Each 1 lb package has 48 grams of protein! So if you would have to eat three packages a day, then I suggest you switch brands.



    Mad101daN Posted: Nov 11 2003, 11:11 AM

    QUOTE (mattd @ Nov 10 2003, 02:50 PM)
    just curious, how much protien do you generally intake per day?

    I have no idea.

    I do eat quite alot of fresh food, and I do love tofu, but to tell you how much protein I eat I really dont know.

    Im sure its enough though

    Dan



    Kim Posted: Nov 13 2003, 12:14 PM

    QUOTE (Katiebelle @ Nov 10 2003, 01:42 AM)
    I'm a new vegan and my boyfriend swears that it's not healthy.

    He still does?





    phillip888 Posted: Nov 13 2003, 10:20 PM

    Ditch 'em, he's not bright enough to be your boyfriend. No really strict vegetarianism of one sort or another has been around for thousands of years. If it's suddenly news to anyone on this planet that it's not only possible, but a superior diet, than they need to learn how to read, and get at it.



    Katiebelle Posted: Nov 17 2003, 01:07 AM

    Thanks everyone for the great resources! George hasn't eaten meat or dairy in two weeks.... who do you think won the argument? :P



    muiisal Posted: Nov 17 2003, 04:25 AM

    just another thought:

    i found an easy way to add protein to my diet was to make a smoothie and add soy protein powder. The powder itself doesn't taste very great but with the right smoothie combination it can easily be disguised



    Benalla Posted: Nov 23 2003, 11:11 AM

    It doesn't seem like you need anymore help, but here's a copy of my post to someone else regarding protein:

    QUOTE

    I've been vegan for 4 1/2 years and I'm fed up with people saying you can't be a muscly vegan. So a month ago I hit the gym and cranked up my protein intake.

    Check out: www.veganbodybuilder.com for some tips and encouragement.

    I get protein from: (the numbers in brackets are the percentage of the food (by weight) that is protein, not how much I rely on that food for protein)

    tofu (8-20%)
    peanuts (25%)
    other nuts (10-20%)
    very dense grainy bread (10-15%)
    hommus (9%)
    beans (6-10%)
    rice (5-10%?)
    corn(?%)


    To increase protein absorption, combine foods like most cultures do: eg, Japan: tofu & rice, Mexico: corn & beans, India: rice & chickpeas, Lebanon: Bread & hommus.

    Protein is not as simple as intake of some other nutrients. There are many amino acids and combining them increase your absorption by as much as 40%.

    PS. Great going with the bf. I'm impressed!

    PPS. I intake around 150-200grams of protein a day. For bodybuilding, 1gram/lb is the recommended intake while trying to build muscle. I don't always get there but I usually come close. It's paying off as well, over 4 weeks in the gym I have increased all my weights by about 5% and I am making steady gains.



    Katiebelle Posted: Nov 23 2003, 06:37 PM

    wow - maybe I should start working out... haha.... I mean, I know I need to, but I work with kids and when I get home, I'm lucky to get a shower I 'm so tired.

    I do need to work on building muscle though. The only thing the muscles in my arms do is connect my shoulders to my wrists... hahaha.

    Question- I was thinking the other night about protien shakes... wouldn't those work as well?



    muiisal Posted: Nov 23 2003, 11:46 PM

    Katiebelle

    "Question- I was thinking the other night about protien shakes... wouldn't those work as well? "

    I have a protein shake every day to increase my protein intake. In health food shops you can buy pure soy protein - it's with all the body building ones. It's not very cheap and not very tasty but only two tablespoons equal 30grams of protein. So it's very easy to get protein this way!

    As far as making a successful smoothie goes - to combat the flavour of the soy protein - it's trial and error. It took me a good few months of combinations to get it right - now i can't even taste the stuff!

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    Benalla Posted: Nov 24 2003, 12:58 AM

    QUOTE
    Question- I was thinking the other night about protien shakes... wouldn't those work as well?

    All the vegan protein shakes I have heard of use soy protein. At my local health food store soy protein is the cheapest!, despite only coming in 375g (a bit less than 1lb) jars. It works out at around $45/Kg.

    There is nothing wrong with using soy protein powder, but remember what I said about combining protein sources. You need to increase protein absorption, not just intake. When you eat/drink the protein powder, have some grain based food at the same time, eg. rice, corn, wheat etc. Consider the protein contents of the grains (should be written on the packet) and try to get as much protein from them as the powder. The more types of protein you eat at the same time, the higher percentage your body can use.

    All pro vegan bodybuilders use protein powder. Probably because all pro body builders use powder. I am trying to get the muscle mass gain, without the powder, mainly because I want to prove a vegan diet can include enough protein, even for body building. The powder would also work out at around $35-40 a week, if it was to make a big differenct to my protein intake, so cost is also an issue.

    If you only need 50grams a day, that shouldn't be too hard to get without the powder.

    For breakfast, try the following:
    A piece or two of fruit
    Two slices of grainy bread with hommus (+tomato, chives, olives etc)
    A handful of nuts, preferrably peanuts, or another high protein nut.

    This should give you around 25grams of protein (intake), and combination of sources should give a reasonably high absorption. Also, the fat content of the hommus and nuts, all the protein, and the low GI sugar found in fruit will help slow your appetite down (if you're trying to avoid eating too much).

    If you can't fit all that in for breakfast, then have the nuts with some crackers and sultanas for morning tea.

    QUOTE
    wow - maybe I should start working out... haha.... I mean, I know I need to, but I work with kids and when I get home, I'm lucky to get a shower I 'm so tired.

    I work with kids too, in after school care, around 3 or 4 days a week. I ride 150-200km a week (just commuting). I workout for 45-75mins 4-5 times a week. I'm also starting to go jogging with friends, cross country, 10km, twice a week. I'm looking for a job in swim teaching as well . While this isn't much of a load for an athlete, its a fairly big load for me and I need to look after my nutrition, to avoid being exhausted.

    I find if I am getting tired, energy from food is not usually the problem. I eat when I'm hungry, and I usually eat pretty good food. Low iron levels are the main reason I get tired. I will occaisionally boost iron levels with a tablet, but I prefer to use food, not supplements. Sultanas have a bit of iron in them, and eating them after some oranges, tomatoes or other vitamin C containing food, will help the absorption of iron.

    This page has some info about iron content (see the non-haem iron at the bottom)

    I also like to make sure my B12 levels are high enough if I'm feeling tired. Once my B12 and iron has been boosted, I don't often feel tired.

    I also like to avoid protein supps, and iron supps, because its hard to tell people that being a vegan healthy if they see you eating heaps of dietry supplements. The only supp I take on a regular basis is B12.

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    Aren't soy-foods complete proteins? Am i lost? ..I'm losing it
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    All fruits, vegtables, etc, ARE complete proteins. And protein is acually not as sucha big deal as many make it, especially those who do not know about it/are not vegan. You can actually get enough. Nuts have an extremely good amount of protein, seitan/ vegan imitation meat also has a lot, and you do not have to eat packages of tofu a day ^_^. For example:

    Tofurkey sausage (from Turtle Island, is vegan) has:

    One piece 3.5 oz, has 25 grams of protrein each, there are 4 in one package, and they taste very good, especially the sweet italian, that you will not torture yourself eating it. You can just eat it as it, or use in pastas or wherever else.

    Tofurkey Deli Slices: 16 grams protein in 2 slices, with 9 in a package. You can make sandwitches, salads, etc., whatever you like.

    Andmany others out there. The whole not enough protein gotten by vegans is a huge myth. Maybe with begginers that do not know about the subject enough or not actually vegan, just acting as though, or just to do for a phase, whatever, protein is not really a problem. B12 can be, but even that can be attained very well

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    Yea, it's impossible to not get enough protien as a vegan. If the diet is wide and varied, there should be no reason whatever for a lack of protien.

    Most people don't really know what complete (or perfect) protiens are. They use that word because it sounds cool. I once read an article from some chap who kept saying "superiour" and "inferiour" protiens and I was LOL because there's no such thing (unless an inferiour protien is one that's been picked on all its life and has no self-image because of it? )

    A perfect protien is one that has all 8 essential vitamins contained within it. If I remember right, soy is a perfect protien, so is quinoa grain and something else... sorry, brain's barely awake and quite fuzzy just now but it seems that there's other sources but I'm just not remembering them. Anyway, as I said earlier, as long as the diet is wide and varied, there should be no worries of protien problems.

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    Getting protein is no problem! Plus, most people get way too much which is no good. But it's very easy to get the protein you need and more.
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    Or this guy
    Auschwitz begins wherever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they're only animals.
    -Theodor Adorno (1903-1969), German Jewish philosopher forced into exile by the Nazis

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    Quote Kiva Dancer
    Yea, it's impossible to not get enough protien as a vegan. If the diet is wide and varied, there should be no reason whatever for a lack of protien.
    That's so true. Or if you don't wanna eat a "normal" diet you could only drink soymilk and get the proteins from it
    Auschwitz begins wherever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they're only animals.
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    Quote animalsvoice
    That's so true. Or if you don't wanna eat a "normal" diet you could only drink soymilk and get the proteins from it
    Hehe, true. But it's more fun to get your protiens from a normal (read: VEGAN ) diet.

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    Default Protein powders

    Hi.

    I lift weights and have thought that I could add some protein powder juiceshakes to my diet. Are the soy protein powders vegan? I know of a brand that has a "Vegefuel"- named product, but it`s much more expensive than the ordinary soy protein powders.

    Thanks.

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    most plain soy protein powders should be. if you read the ingredients, it should have very few ingredients. it may even say vegan or "no animal ingredients" right on the package. be careful of any added vitamins, though. my mom bought me some a while ago that has D3 in it, which is never vegan.

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    hey Malis,

    First of all, check the list of vegan supplements for bodybuilders.

    If you have some other questions on that matter, you can join www.veganfitness.net board where you will find dozens of vegans involved in bodybuliding, weightlifting and sports of all kind. It's a really great place for you, I think.

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    Thanks alot guys! This really helped.

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    Hi Malis, I have experience with body building, I gained so much muscle mass quickly that I ripped the tendons in both of my shoulders. They didn't have enough time to adjust to the stresses my new muscles were supplying. I gained over forty pound of muscle in just over three months. My primary source of protein was rice, beans, and green salads. I think that protein powder might help to supply excess protein, but in reality your muscles will grow fromt he stress you put on them no matter what you eat (as long as you're not just eating a small variety of foods), excessive protein isn't necessary. If you do want to eat foods with the right amino acids, please consider quinoa, mushrooms, eggplant, cabbage, asparigus, lentils, seaweed, and spirulina. They all have an ideal array of amino acids, and are a more natural and beneficial food compared to soy or rice protein powders.

  15. #15

    Question protein ideas

    hi everyone i am new here. i have been an on and off vegan or vegetarian since i was 13 (i'm now 21). i've been trying so hard to eat vegan for the last few months but i am having a hard time with protein. Here is what i have been having: tofu, soy milk, chickpeas and other beans, nuts/seeds, and quinoa. but they all seem so high cal! does anyone have any suggestions for low cal or low fat sources? any ideas would be helpful

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    Oily nuts and oil seeds such as sesame or sunflower are high in calorie, chik peas and most (but not all) beans are not. They contain protein and carbohydrates and only a small amount of oil. Peanuts and soybeans both have oil however. Soybeans are low in carbs. Peanuts are the only legume I can think of that has lots of all 3. Lentils are low in oil, as are whole peas, fresh or dry, and split peas. Both are high in protein.

    Oats are the grain with the most protein. Rice is very low in protein.
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    you should be getting enough protein through veggies, beans and grains - if you are a serious athlete with extra protein needs, then you can supplement with a protein shake or something like that you can find at health food stores.

    I think lentils are a good choice and black eyed peas - I also don´t eat alot of grains - just brown rice, occasional whole grain bread ( also good protein sources) Seitan is also a rich protein source that doesn´t have alot of calories.

    I have never had to worry about protein - I look more at calcium, vitamin D and omega 3`s .


    A healthy vegan diet should not have a problem with calories ( based on fruits and veggies, legumes and grains) - unless you eat lots of peanut butter, oils, avocados and coconut, the calorie count takes care of itself.

    Of course, processed junk food will put on the calories!


    all the best,
    globesetter

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    I've heard your body only needs a fraction of the standard recommended calories from protein... something like a third of what is recommended. I like to believe that it's true. I kind of stopped freaking out about getting enough protein a few months after I switched to a vegan diet. And healthwise I'm doing fine as far as I can tell.

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    Quote Sabster
    I've heard your body only needs a fraction of the standard recommended calories from protein... something like a third of what is recommended. I like to believe that it's true. I kind of stopped freaking out about getting enough protein a few months after I switched to a vegan diet. And healthwise I'm doing fine as far as I can tell.
    same here. i heard that as long as you're eating enough calories (& not just eating crap ) that you're getting enough protein unless you're doing intense athletic training.

    also there's worry about getting "complete" protein but i also stopped worying about that once i realized that most combinations of grains & stuff that are eaten together anyway are complete proteins: beans & wheat, beans & rice, lentils & rice, beans & corn....

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    Talking What is your favourite vegan protein?

    What is your favourite vegan source of protein and what do you do with them? I like legumes, especially red lentils, chickpeas (whole and split), split peas and split mung beans.

    I make Indian and North African style dishes with it (curries and dhals and stews) and have it with brown rice or wholewheat couscous.

    In sandwiches I like tahini (sesame seed butter)

    Tempeh is yum but I never know what to do with it!!!!

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    My favourite is all of them, except the last two! I'm not very inventive, Banana, so although I do buy tempeh, I usually end up cutting it into little cubes to heat under the grill - then sprinkle with tamari and eat with vegies. With chick peas, which I buy canned, I make delicious homus.
    Eve

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    I'd have to say that nuts, nut butters and nut sauces are my favourite sorces of vegan protein. Tempeh runs a close second. I cut it into cubes, fry it in a little olive oil and eat it with a home-made satay sauce. Mmmmmm!

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    Mine is whole grains, but there wasn't a choice. Definitely oatmeal and whole wheat!

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    I can't choose between that lot! They are all good (except for the last two which, like eve, I'm not as keen on).

    I sometimes get tempeh that's already seasoned with garlic and coriander. It's rather salty but good chopped up and mixed with lightly-cooked cabbage and mushrooms, with a smidgeon of something spicy like veggie Worcester sauce and/or mustard.

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    Sprouts! Sunflower Seed Sprouts, to be exact!

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    i voted beans and legumes as i love lentils and chick peas, like you Banana

    tofu would have to be my second choice i think as i love it if it's filled with flavour such as satay sauce, smoked, sweet and sour etc. it's a close one though between nuts and tofu, i love to snack on raw nuts and i'm quite partial to a nut roast now and again. i've tried tempeh but didn't like it - perhaps it was just a one-off bad experience.

    i'm not keen on mock meats really, i used to eat them occasionally as a veggie but most of the ones i liked had eggs and/or milk in, and the vegan ones i've had weren't that nice so i haven't eaten any for ages.
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    Quote ConsciousCuisine
    Sprouts! Sunflower Seed Sprouts, to be exact!
    I suppose that would come under the nuts/seeds category coz it is still a seed (in a more vegetably form )

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    I voted for beans, but I love nuts and nut butters, too.

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    Quote Gorilla
    i've tried tempeh but didn't like it - perhaps it was just a one-off bad experience.
    If you like spicy food, try the tempeh chili I posted in the recipes forum - tempeh is absolutely perfect for this. I was very unsure about this when I first made it. After about my fifth mouthful, I was completely sold on the awesomeness of tempeh.

    And I can't vote in this, because I love tempeh, garbanzo beans, and black beans equally.
    And fake meats always satisfy my rare meat-like-flavour cravings.
    Last edited by mysh; Oct 7th, 2004 at 02:22 AM. Reason: Made pertinent
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    Default protein

    how do i know if im meeting my protein requirements?
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

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    Do you feel sick?
    Eve

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    well currently yes LOL i have the flu because everyone in my house got it! other then that, normally i feel good.
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

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    i read somewhere (i believe it was diet for a new america) that as long as you're geting enough calories, you're probably getting enough protein. unless you're eating all junk food or have some special condition, you don't need to worry. i used to worry about protein because that's what non-vegans & the media make a big deal about. but it;s blown way out of proportion.

    also, it's easier than you'd think to get 'complete' protein. combinations of food that you probably already eat are 'complete' proteins: beans & rice, lentils & rice, beans & wheat, beans & corn & tons of others. also soy has 'complete' protein by itself.

  34. #34

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    Yeah, it's not necessary to combine any proteins; that's just a myth. As long as you eat three meals a day, you're fine.

    Perhaps you could work in more whole grains and legumes, Tina?

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    well i eat alot of brown rice products, like pasta and bread, and ive bin eating more nuts and seeds, lots of soymilk and tofu and beans.
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

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    foxy and everyone else, HERES a "BUT HOW DO I GET ENOUGH PROTEIN?" article found on eatveg.com . Hope that helps.

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    If you need to be SURE you're getting enough, just moniter one day of normal eating, and read the label or find food info online to count the grams of protein. You really only need about 20-40 grams a day. However, the optimum government recomended amount is 1 gram per 2 pounds of body weight. Once you count it up, you'll see that you are probably already getting enough. If not, work in a few more protein foods.
    I hope that help!

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    Default Beans/Peas/Legumes

    Well, only to mean that is the main source. Nuts and seed butters like tahini are a real favorite but shouldn't be the basis of one's protein. Then there is brown rice which wasn't listed but would be the core of my diet, with legumes, nuts, and seeds bringing up the balance. I also use soy drink a lot, tempeh, and tofurky. Some veggie burgers but try to keep it as natural as I reasonably can.

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    Question Textured protein

    There is an Indian restaurant in my city that makes an excellent dish made with textured protein balls, peas, and a semi-spicey brown sauce. It's so good - and I didn't realize that textured protein even existed before having it.

    Does anyone have any good recipes using textured protein? Or how do YOU use it?

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    I think people use it like they would mince meat - like spaghetti bolognese or chili con carne

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    Careful - most of that TVP is a GM product.
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    Really? Because the restaurant labels the dish as "vegan."

  43. #43

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    A genetically-modified product CAN be vegan.
    utopiankitchen.wordpress.com

  44. #44
    I eve's Avatar
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    TVP contains quite a few unpleasant ingredients. The Sanitarium TVP also contains milk and gluten, and *may* contain egg. Importantly, soyflour is used, and the soyflour in the US is made from GM soybeans.

    Artichoke47 is quite right, a GM product can be vegan. IMO, a can of cooked lentils does a better job in making protein balls.
    Eve

  45. #45

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    Eve, do you have a recipe?

  46. #46
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    I don't like TVP much myself. I do keep a packet in the cupboard in case of emergencies (running out of food) because it is cheap and lasts a long while. I use it as you would "mince". Not that I've ever cooked mince, but you know what I mean.

  47. #47
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    Thanks for the info... I'll be careful
    Follow the smoke to the riff-filled land

  48. #48
    I eve's Avatar
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    Quote Marie
    Eve, do you have a recipe?
    Sorry, Marie, no I don't. When I cook (which is not very often these days as I'm mostly raw), I make it up as I go along, according to whatever happens to be in my cupboard. But I certainly keep a can of lentils in my cupboard for the odd occasion if someone calls!
    Eve

  49. #49
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Animal Protein and Cancer: Milk Causes Cancer in Rats

    From http://www.vegsource.com/articles/veg_definition.htm:

    "For example, in rats exposed to a known liver carcinogen and then fed levels of casein representing excess protein intake (20% of calories from animal-source protein), precancerous levels increased dramatically. Rats fed low animal-protein diets (5% of calories from animal-source protein) experienced a reduction in precancerous growths by over 90%. Similar studies with rats consuming excess vegetable protein (20% of calories from plant-source protein) also showed a dramatic reduction in precancerous growths -- the opposite of excess animal-source protein intake. When the "missing" amino acide, lysene, was added to the plant-source protein, making it a "complete" protein like animal protein, it had the same impact as feeding animal protein -- increasing cancer growth. 7 The take home message from these studies was that eating more than a very minimal amount of protein from animal sources promoted cancer growth while consuming excess protein levels from plant sources did not, but in fact reduced precancerous growth"
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  50. #50
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    I don't really trust rat research, but I do find that post very interesting, Korn.

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