View Poll Results: Which of these statements about 'pets' do you agree in? (Multiple Choice Poll)

Voters
339. You may not vote on this poll
  • Veganism means not using animals for food, clothing, entertainment or any other purpose. Keeping a 'pet' = "other purpose"

    55 16.22%
  • I'm against puppy mills and commercial breeding of animals

    254 74.93%
  • I'm all for keeping rescued animals or animals that otherwise need me, but against keeping other 'pets'

    181 53.39%
  • I'm against keeping animals in captivity, which is why I prefer not to keep 'pets' captivated

    59 17.40%
  • I prefer not to make decisions about animals' social life, sex life, toilet habits, death date or or anything else.

    49 14.45%
  • As long as a 'pet' can freely roam around, but doesn't escape, I don't see anything wrong with keeping it

    93 27.43%
  • Keeping meat eating animals means either supporting the meat industry (when buying 'pet' food) or giving them plant food, which isn't natural for them

    86 25.37%
  • I'm not OK with keeping animals that needs to be caged

    140 41.30%
  • Unless we make all domesticated/institutionalized animals extinct (which I don't want), someone needs to take care of them

    144 42.48%
  • I would like to see the end of humans keeping all animals

    51 15.04%
  • I would like to see the end of humans keeping all animals, even if this means human extinction of certain animals

    36 10.62%
  • Regulations re. keeping animals need to be stricter than they are today

    193 56.93%
  • I disagree with selling animals for profit

    235 69.32%
  • Humans + 'pets' = non-obligatory mutualism

    54 15.93%
  • Non-obligatory mutualism? It's called The Stockholm syndrome!

    15 4.42%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 19 of 20 FirstFirst ... 9 17 18 19 20 LastLast
Results 901 to 950 of 994

Thread: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

  1. #901

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I am a pet owner. I have two cats that have been with me since I was very young, and I have a pet turtle. They are all three very happy and comfortable with me, and seeing as they are not being eaten or used for personal gain, I think this is a perfectly fine vegan situation.

  2. #902

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Is it right for a vegan to keep a 'pet'? Poll planned.

    I would like to see "poll results" as a "snapshot view" (this is how the answers look, or how our group's opinions look at this time).

    I entered this forum AFTER the poll was closed, and because I strongly believe in option #1 (meaning being vegan means using animals for NO purposes, including keeping pets), I wish I could have 'weighed in' here on this topic - even now...

    I think this is an ongoing topic, an important topic, and a topic through which both our community AND science's future possibilities ought to mature.

    I envision an emerging demand - as consciousness on this topic matures AND as what we do scientifically grows parallel to our living OUR own vegan lives - so that critical confluences (the various 'us' constituencies we represent AND all the 'them' constituencies other represent, come together wholeheartedly or halfheartedly to accomplish specific goals, which will 'flow together' in history towards some outcomes - hopefully, more desirable outcomes) will make possible a future where we can love nonvegetarian nonhumans without sacrificing the interests of other nonhumans (usually vegetarian nonhumans) while humans progressively become more and more nearly vegan (across the planet, which 'boasts' now nearly 7 billion humans, only a few of whom are vegan like us - or even vegetarian.

    The default (economic/agricultural/ecological) conditions may discourage some humans from eating large amounts of meat, but their 'ethic' around THEIR diets is hardly the 'stewardship' ethic many of us ethical vegans would advocate. Poverty as a REASON for plant=-based diets is ephemeral. It goes away when people cease being poor, and it leaves in its wake the ethic of insecure consumption characteristic (in developing nations) of 'the nouveau riche'.

    (Sorry for rambling)

  3. #903

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    280

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I think it depends on the animal and on how you are taking care of it. Growing up we used to take in cats, or rather, they just came to us and started sleeping in our shed and hung around for food. Some of them became really tame and others remained really wild, but we did take care of them when they were sick and had them all sterilized. I think it's fine to live alongside animals in harmony, but you have responsibility over them then and must make sure they have a good life and animals need love and care. Not sure about reptiles, I never looked after those. Oh yeah and I don't think cats can be vegan and just as healthy, they need meat or fish imo, I think dogs are fine on a vegan diet. I do think that when you keep the animal you should give it what it needs, there's always options to find products from better sources. You need to be able to afford it naturally and otherwise don't look after them.

  4. #904

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I don't agree with breeding animals or keeping pets, but while there are animals that need to be looked after I think that's ok.

    Breeding animals for pets is wrong in my opinion, because then you have to neuter certain animals and cage others, and cats contribute to the meat industry

  5. #905
    Off Duty Ninja RainInStarlight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Is it right for a vegan to keep a 'pet'? Poll planned.

    Quote Klutz View Post
    ... I prefer to have companions and right now, dogs are the best kind of companions for me as they do not have any nasty or disagreeable habits (eat meat, drink alcohol, smoke, do drugs, be cruel to animals, go to church, etc.) ...
    I LOL'd at what I've bolded. That was too cute.
    Ninja hug! You never saw it coming!

  6. #906
    imothepixie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: Is it right for a vegan to keep a 'pet'? Poll planned.

    I haven't read the whole thread but has it been pointed out that a Cat may turn up at your house, decide it's home and that you are the one that is to look after it. Meiow! It has happened and will while there are cats and people in the world!
    L'esprit de l'escargot

  7. #907
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: Is it right for a vegan to keep a 'pet'? Poll planned.

    Quote imothepixie View Post
    a Cat may turn up at your house, decide it's home and that you are the one that is to look after it.
    Yes, that's how we got one of ours. He was supposed to be living next door but the conditions weren't to his liking so he gradually moved his stuff in here.

  8. #908
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: Is it right for a vegan to keep a 'pet'? Poll planned.

    Quote imothepixie View Post
    I haven't read the whole thread but has it been pointed out that a Cat may turn up at your house, decide it's home and that you are the one that is to look after it. Meiow! It has happened and will while there are cats and people in the world!
    ha, yep, that sounds familiar to me too (see my avatar for cat in question lol)

  9. #909
    Maranne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Is it right for a vegan to keep a 'pet'? Poll planned.

    I'm a cat magnet. I've ended up making house room for many stray kitties that somehow found me including the little guy I live with now.

  10. #910
    Greyowl55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    WALES UK
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: Is it right for a vegan to keep a 'pet'? Poll planned.

    I don't 'do' pets myself for virtually all the reasons mentioned in the poll, but my wife likes a cat or two about the place. She has agreed with my request not to throw money after commercially bred and genetically sifted pedigrees (effectively mutants), but to give a home to strays from the local sanctuary. As for the two goldfish, what can I say? I personally would set them free in to our fish pond, but I doubt they would survive 10 minutes, so that would be cruel. They shouldn't, of course, have been purchased in the first place and then there would not be a market for them.

    In my humble opinion there is one, and only one, reasonable justification for capturing and caging animals; with endangered species, to protect them from humans.
    "Nostalgia is not what it used to be"

  11. #911
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    ^ I actually released a Goldfish that 'belonged' to our family, she went to a neighbours pond and she did survive a fair while and seemed really happy out there.

  12. #912
    Greyowl55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    WALES UK
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Quote cobweb View Post
    I actually released a Goldfish that 'belonged' to our family, she went to a neighbours pond and she did survive a fair while and seemed really happy out there.
    Might try that when it gets warmer, then, and get a couple of plastic ones and hope she doesn't notice
    "Nostalgia is not what it used to be"

  13. #913

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Is it right for a vegan to keep a 'pet'? Poll planned.

    Personally, and this is an issue close to my heart, I agree with keeping companion animals. I am not over-exagerrating here, but when we lost our last dog (who we had for 15 years) I almost commited suicide. I don't want that again. I cannot live without animals.
    I have bred animals - before I went vegan, the offspring I kept. I have brought animals. I have resuced more than most people would have done in a lifetime in the past two years also.

    The fact is, and I know I will come up against someone saying "but they aren't ours to mess with...." as I always encounter, I don't agree in stopping companion animals. Pure and simple - causing extinction is NOT vegan in any sence of the word. Most of us want to stop the hunting and extinction of the Panda and the Polar bear, and on the other part of the spectrum other people are quite happy to cause massive scale extinction of many species.

    I am a dog and rodent person. I couldn't keep a cat because I am sick of irresponsible people letting them out. Treat your cat like a dog. And give the "im letting him out because it's what cats do" attitude "neglecters" the same fines and punishments dog owners would get. Harsh I know, but over 2 MILLION unwanted cats in the UK...seriously. Three cars collided last year on the road I am on because of a cat running across the road - the cat "owner" won't get the bill for that. Nor do they get fined for their cat pooping and leaving it behind. Cats, I don't think are "pets" or "companion animals", I personally don't think cats like humans. Also I couldn't sleep knowing my cat is outside probably dying from being hit by a car or stolen. No thank you.

    Regarding Vegan pet diets - I'm not for it. I have seen animals die on vegan diets. Commercial Vegan dog food is mainly cerial - wtf? There's no nutrients in that. A dog in an omnivore - and when he can tell me he wants to be vegan, he will be, but since I don't talk dog, and he doesn't talk human, he is staying on what he is on.

    I've got more I could speak of, but I'd rather not at this moment in time.

    I know I am perfectly capable of putting peoples backs up, and I am pretty certain that I may have just done that by my views. I'm not quite sure I am willing to apologise if I have because it is an opinion poll.

  14. #914
    Greyowl55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    WALES UK
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: Is it right for a vegan to keep a 'pet'? Poll planned.

    Quote KayleighLouise View Post
    I know I am perfectly capable of putting peoples backs up, and I am pretty certain that I may have just done that by my views. I'm not quite sure I am willing to apologise if I have because it is an opinion poll.
    I don't think you will put anyone's back up, Kayleigh; we are all entitled to our opinions and to express them forcefully, as long as we understand that there are others who may have other points of view that they are entitled to argue equally as forcibly. If anyone's ownership of a pet gives it a better quality of life than otherwise it would have done, then (in my view) they are to be commended.
    "Nostalgia is not what it used to be"

  15. #915

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    The amount of times I am forced where I live to apologise to cat owners about my view on cats it's unreal! I do feel that not knowing where a companion animal is, is neglect.

    The reason I said that I would find it hard to apologise is only relating to opinion sections by the way - I posted late last night and didn't clarify what I meant. Sorry for not being clear!

    I also like hearing other people's thoughts and opinions even if I don't particuarly agree at times

  16. #916
    imothepixie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Quote KayleighLouise View Post
    I do feel that not knowing where a companion animal is, is neglect.
    I 'think' she may be hiding in the bushes stalking mice but I'm not sure! Is that neglect? I'm afraid you will be forever apologising to 'Cat owners' if you think you should 'Treat your cat like a dog' .... Horses for courses.... Dogs for walkies.... Catflaps for Cats....
    L'esprit de l'escargot

  17. #917

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Would you agree if I let my (theoretical) child of 5 out all night? No? Oh right, now where does that differ on the question of neglect?

    Oh and letting your cat kill animals too, thats lovely, I'll take my whippet coursing at the weekend then since its ok for cats to kill mice - its fine for whippets to do their breeding purpose. That is the majority of cat owners attitudes. I wouldn't take my dog coursing as I don't think it's right - but at least a whippet can kill quickly and doesn't "play" with their prey and torture it - like cats do.

    I think I will stop apologising to "cat owners" in future and show them the damage cats do to the environment and a lovely picture of a half eaten (endangered) Sparrow that a "perfect, independant, lovely" cat did.

  18. #918
    imothepixie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I think you're being a bit irrational... a cat is not a child of five, not a (cat haters!) great threat to the enviroment and I don't take pleasure if my cat kills mice but how can you stop it?... she caught one INSIDE my flat the other day! With a dog you can say 'NO' 'LEAVE'.... 'SIT' 'STAY'
    L'esprit de l'escargot

  19. #919

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Do you go outside and clean up your cats poo? Or do you let the EA blame a dog for it? Probably the latter as you only "think" where she "might" be. Cat owners should get fined 500 for not cleaning up a poo thats been done by a cat outside - even up the score, but then, because they bury it its classed as "out of sight, out of mind"...
    Cat owners should grow the balls that were cut off the cats. For the record, I tolerate cats, I don't love them, but there are a few I like. I don't like cat owners attitudes. It isn't dog owners that are irrational to speak up about the unfair deal we get from the EA and the reputation dogs get.

    No a cat isn't a 5 year old, but it is YOUR charge, just like a child is...and you wouldn't leave a child outside or any other (indoor type) animal.

  20. #920
    imothepixie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I'm going to leave you to stew.... Maybe you should write a letter to your local newspaper about it! The letters page thrives on this type of stuff!

    BTW a cat nor a child is any kind of '(indoor type) animal' (I shall get my cat to stay in if she likes watching CBeebies!)
    L'esprit de l'escargot

  21. #921
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Quote imothepixie View Post
    I'm going to leave you to stew.... Maybe you should write a letter to your local newspaper about it! The letters page thrives on this type of stuff!

    BTW a cat nor a child is any kind of '(indoor type) animal' (I shall get my cat to stay in if she likes watching CBeebies!)

    lol

    Blimey, seriously, where do I start?.............

    I don't 'own' my cat any more than I 'own' the local fox, and I don't clean up his poo, either .

    As for 'my' cat not liking humans, I can only assume that she does like at least *some* of them - the ones in my family for instance, who took her in and gave her food and shelter. She is free to leave any time but doesn't, unlike most dogs and rodents who don't have a choice. I wonder if you keep 'your' rodents caged?.

    There are millions of stray and unwanted dogs in the world aswell, by the way........

  22. #922
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Quote KayleighLouise View Post
    No a cat isn't a 5 year old, but it is YOUR charge, just like a child is...and you wouldn't leave a child outside or any other (indoor type) animal.
    ............and I wouldn't have kept my son indoors all the time, either, so he could never feel the sun or sniff the flowers or run across a field, that would be cruelty in my eyes.

  23. #923

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
    Posts
    772

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Same here. When I was still living with my parents, we always had lots of cats. We did not 'breed' them, they looked after that themselves. Of course, we sterilized them, but ever so often a new mother cat with a litter of kittens would find that our garden offers great living conditions and adopt us as her 'humans'.

    It has to be said, however, that we were living in the countryside, with miles of fields and a few small forests right behind our garden. The unfortunate side was, of course, that more often than not we found one of our cats killed by a car, a train, or even a hunter. I remember all too well the hours waiting for a cat to return home, then the call by somebody who knew us that s/he had seen a dead cat, and the gruesome task of collecting the animal and putting her to rest in our garden. However, the upside to that risk for the cat was to have a life of freedom which I believe is essential for a cat. Although my kids would love to have a cat as pet, I would not want to keep a cat where we live now (more urbanized conditions, also gardens and fields to go to, but not immediately adjacent to our garden. I certainly do not agree with keeping a cat confined in a small apartment any more than I agree with zoos keeping lions and tigers in small enclosures.

    Asking cat owners to clean up after their cats poop outdoors, IMO is misunderstanding both the size of the cat dropping (as opposed to a dog dropping) and the habit of the cat to bury it with grass.

    Best regards,
    Andy

  24. #924
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chile
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Hi Andy... so what happens when the cat dropping ends up in the neighbour's vegetable patch where they happen to grow their salad leaves? (and try to do so in a vegan way)...

    I think cat droppings are antisocial too. they might be fine in a field but certainly not in an urban or semi-urban environment - own experience... still a bit angry about it! grrrr

  25. #925
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    what happens if a Fox or other wild animal poos in your veg patch?

  26. #926
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chile
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    They don't. There are none around because this is an urban setting... birds i don't mind so much to be honest and it rarely happens.

    Also, foxes tend not to climb the trees outside the garden to jump over the fence...

  27. #927
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chile
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    btw... the problem, could be easily sorted if the cat owners provided adequate facilities in their own gardens or kitchens... there is nowhere for the cats to bury their crap except our vegetable plot, everything else is very heavy clay or asphalt (none of which can be dug)...

    it is your companion animal, so it is your poo too IMHO...

  28. #928
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I agree people with cats should provide loo facilities for them but you can take a horse to water etc. Two of ours do use our garden and/or a litter tray but I've no idea where the other one goes and I think the neighbours might get a bit ratty if I climbed over their fences to clear up after him.

    Out garden is also usually full of hedgehog droppings but I don't mind that, it comes with the hedgehogs so I just clear it up.

    ETA I do grow some veg in the garden but I just wash it thoroughly before eating and nothing has happened to me yet (aaaaaargh). Admittedly, most of it is in containers anyway which keeps slugs and snails out as well as things that might cr@p on it.

  29. #929
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    well (I'll ignore the sarcasm as I haven't seen your garden Manzana and anyway you do get urban foxes ) it's a tricky one. I agree with you that the 'owners' should provide somewhere for the cats to dig in their own gardens, but unfortunately you can't control cats, even with the best will in the world. If I knew my cat was pooping in the neighbours garden I would offer to pick it up, but there are several cats round here so it would be hard to say really (and 'my' cat has litter trays and my flowerbeds to dig but I suspect still goes elsewhere).

  30. #930
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chile
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Quote harpy View Post
    ETA I do grow some veg in the garden but I just wash it thoroughly before eating and nothing has happened to me yet (aaaaaargh). Admittedly, most of it is in containers anyway which keeps slugs and snails out as well as things that might cr@p on it.
    Believe it or not... they also crapped in the pots we had... unbelievable...

    we have now adapted the veg plot, it has 1m high fence and lots of forks and sticks pointing up from the ground so the cats dont feel it is an inviting place to jump into for an all bran moment... it may seem a bit extreme, but believe me, we started with easy deterrents like pepper powder, small fences, bigger fence (no pointy forks), and untill we displayed our full array of weapons they kept trying!

    PS. Cobweb... no sarcasm was intended...
    I admit that I have more of a problem with carnivore than herbivore poo as well!

  31. #931
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I poke long canes into the containers to make it difficult for cats to get in there - unfortunately it's freshly dug earth that they find irresistible so a nice newly planted pot of compost looks ideal to them :/ But fortunately (from my point of view) it is a very catty neighbourhood so people are fairly tolerant of one another's cats.

    There are a lot of urban foxes around here too but I think they must use someone else's garden - though there was a suspicious incident in our kitchen once (could a fox get through a catflap? ).

  32. #932
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    ok I apologise Manzana!.
    Carnivore poo IS worse than herbivore poo, I agree there!. Our cat uses one flowerbed in our garden as food and a toilet (don't ask!...........)

  33. #933

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    St Leonards on Sea
    Posts
    346

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I'm really surprised to find the views expressed here about cats. I've heard these sort of thing said before but not by Vegans. I agree that there are too many cats in the world but this is our fault for breeding them and not controlling the population. I volunteer at a cat rescue centre and it's heart breaking to see the cats there that are unwanted, I'm considering taking on a couple, something which I thought I wouldn't do as a Vegan. Even an indoor home is better than a small enclosed run. I personally think that cats do like humans, my cat liked me and my partner anyway. How do you know dogs like humans they behave in a way that they know will be rewarded with food, shelter and warmth?

  34. #934
    RubyDuby
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,294

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    oftentimes they won't eat when their people are away.
    Each snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty.

  35. #935

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
    Posts
    772

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Manzana,

    I agree, if the only place in the garden that is possible for cats to use as litter is your vegetable patch, then this is definitely not an environment where I would suggest to keep cats. I guess I simply (luckily) don't have the experiences you have. My parents home has 3,000 square meters of garden, and behind that, there's the fields. I never actively recall seeing a cat dropping in our garden. Dog turds on the other hand on sidewalks, well...

    Best regards,
    Andy

  36. #936
    Assaye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    York
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    We've got two kittens that were adopted from a friend. Our friend found a very thin mother cat and her newborn litter in his shed. He suspected that she was a stray and the vet agreed. He couldn't afford to keep them all so his housemate took one of the kittens and the rest were adopted out once the mother weaned the babies. We ended up with two because it was either that or have them sent to a shelter and possibly destroyed.

    They're utterly charming cats and live quite peacefully with our other adoptions (rodents, newts and a reptile). They are indoor cats for safety reasons - we're in a busy urban environment where cats are known to go missing or be stolen, and some of the people on our street are rather nasty. I wouldn't trust the local kids as far as I could thrown them. We see our job as to keep them safe and to keep other animals safe from them.

    Both my partner and I hate the 'pet trade' with a passion and would never condone breeding animals as pets or servants, even if it is 'compassionate' or 'ethical' breeding on a small scale. We believe it is wrong both from the perspective that animals are not property and from the perspective that there are so many animals that have been displaced, rejected or lost that need homes. Do right by the animals we already have in our lives and don't breed anymore.

    We do have our cats 'done' because we have one male and one female. Letting them choose to have sex/reproduce may be in accordance with their rights, but we can't look after their offspring and we believe that letting them breed through inaction is as bad as actively trying to breed them. Although I rarely talk about 'the greater good' or utilitarian aims, I do in this case.

  37. #937
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Quote Assaye View Post
    We do have our cats 'done' because we have one male and one female. Letting them choose to have sex/reproduce may be in accordance with their rights, but we can't look after their offspring and we believe that letting them breed through inaction is as bad as actively trying to breed them. Although I rarely talk about 'the greater good' or utilitarian aims, I do in this case.
    ^ hear hear!

    I do see that in some environments it's better to keep cats indoors, but I do feel that, wherever possible, cats should be allowed outdoors, even if that's in a large enclosure. I just think that most/all mammals need sunshine, fresh air, and stimulation. On the other hand, I worked for a shelter in Merseyside where we were frequently called out to attacks on cats by nasty kids .

  38. #938
    Assaye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    York
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I completely agree. We're not in a position to provide an outdoor run but as soon as we own our own property and can afford to do so, we will.

    And it will be AMAZING. I'd probably spend all my time lounging in the kitty-treehouse.

  39. #939
    LuvAllLife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Recently the town of Oakville here in Ontario has banned free roaming cats. There has been a lot of uproar from cat owners, but there is a lot to be considered here.
    In North America, domestic cats are killing over 1 million birds a year. They do not need to eat these birds to survive, of course, it's just what they do. But what the naysayers fail to awknowledge is the role the birds play: Eating insects. Nature NEEDS these birds to control insects, it does not need domestic cats.
    As well there is the free roaming aspect; I am sure cat owners would not enjoy it if I let my dog loose to deficate wherever and maybe just eat a cat if he felt like it. I feel the birds deserve as much respect and protection as they can get, and if that means putting a harness on Fluffy and tying him out to enjoy the outdoors, well it might just have to be that way, since Fluffy is the product of the domestication of man.
    I'm not trying to demonize cat owners, just saying that the needs of nature should be respected. The day my dog killed 2 groundhogs while running loose in the bush, needless death, she lost her off leash privledges and now gets to run beside me and my bicycle!
    Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends.

  40. #940
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Quote LuvAllLife View Post
    and if that means putting a harness on Fluffy and tying him out to enjoy the outdoors, well it might just have to be that way, since Fluffy is the product of the domestication of man.

    Only a clinically INSANE person would tie a cat up, it would simply break its own neck trying to get free .

    It's not nice that cats kill birds, and I think most vegans wouldn't want to prolong the breeding cycle of domestic cats, but feel an obligation to those who are already around.

    Incidentally, if humans didn't interfere by feeding birds in their gardens, possibly not half as many would be killed by cats. Humans are the cause of MOST problems, lets face it!.

  41. #941
    LuvAllLife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Oh of course humans are the cause of most problems! I agree.
    And a harness is easy for a cat to adjust to and does not put any pressure on the neck I know a few people who's previous cats have been hit by cars so they used this method.
    Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends.

  42. #942
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    I was interested to read that the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (main UK bird conservation organisation) doesn't think predation by cats is likely to be the cause of the decline of the bird population here http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/garden...ddeclines.aspx - though I expect most cat owners here would agree that they should take reasonable steps to try and stop their cats catching birds, like putting a suitable collar and bell on cats that go after birds.

    As regards whether cats should go outside or not there seems to be an unbridgeable cultural divide between the UK (where a lot of people think it's cruel not to let them out) and North America (where a lot of people think it's cruel to let them out). Cat welfare organisations here won't normally rehome a cat to a place where it won't be allowed out whereas I gather the reverse is true in North America. So I don't suppose we'll be able to settle the question here

  43. #943
    LuvAllLife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Haha, I was reading that and thought "Holy, my numbers must be off if UK cats are killing 55 million birds a year!" . I misquoted, NA cats kill about a million a day, not a year That makes more sense. Interesting article, harpy!
    Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends.

  44. #944
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Quote LuvAllLife View Post
    Oh of course humans are the cause of most problems! I agree.
    And a harness is easy for a cat to adjust to and does not put any pressure on the neck I know a few people who's previous cats have been hit by cars so they used this method.
    Yes, my cat has been out for walks on a harness and lead, but NEVER tied up on one!. I hope your friends don't do that, it's extremely cruel and dangerous!.

  45. #945
    LuvAllLife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Okay, I must be missing something here! How is it cruel and dangerous to tie a cat out on a securely fitted harness to enjoy the afternoon sunshine? The cats just seem to laze about. I don't see any danger once the animal has become used to the harness? I'm not trying to start a war here, I just don't get why it's such a negatively perceived thing. It's pretty common practise around here by owners that truly love their cats and just want them to be able to enjoy the outdoors without getting smucked by a transport. They are definitely not treated cruely and many cats would trade places with them in a minute I am sure, to have such a loving home.
    Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends.

  46. #946

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
    Posts
    772

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Very interesting - as I mentioned, my family had cats for ~ 20 years that were roaming the wilderness. I never once saw one of our cats actually catch a bird - and not for wont of trying. Possibly our birds were too smart, or our cats were not eager enough. They sometimes brought parts of pheasants, but that was only when the sunday hunters had been around and obviously killed some of those without collecting them. Right behind our garden, there was the part of the wilderness that was accessible by car, so it was the natural rallying point of said sunday hunters on the days when they chose to try to kill off some wild animals. Middle-aged, overweight men who obviously were out of breath from walking the hundred meters from the parking lot to the 'wilderness'. Always an interesting sight

    Best regards,
    Andy

  47. #947
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Quote LuvAllLife View Post
    Okay, I must be missing something here! How is it cruel and dangerous to tie a cat out on a securely fitted harness to enjoy the afternoon sunshine? The cats just seem to laze about. I don't see any danger once the animal has become used to the harness? I'm not trying to start a war here, I just don't get why it's such a negatively perceived thing. It's pretty common practise around here by owners that truly love their cats and just want them to be able to enjoy the outdoors without getting smucked by a transport. They are definitely not treated cruely and many cats would trade places with them in a minute I am sure, to have such a loving home.


    What if something spooks the cat, what if a dog gets into the yard?. The cat has no defences and as they're relatively small they could easily break a bone if left tied up. I just can't believe anyone would do that, bad enough any animal be tethered for extended periods let alone a cat! .

    Maybe I'm missing something aswell, though, are you talking about short periods of time where a human is always present?. I still wonder why people wouldn't want to enclose their yards/gardens if they cared that much, so the cat(s) would have some freedom in a safe area?.

  48. #948
    LuvAllLife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Yes, I am implying that their owner would be home and close by as there is of course always the risk of a dog entering the yard. I certainly don't think ANY animal should be tethered and left for extended periods unsupervised.

    I have a fenced in yard as I choose not to tie my dogs. I agree that a free-run enclosed area is ideal. I'm just saying that for some people it works to tether their cat on the deck or in the garden for a few hours so that they get some fresh air; and I don't think it's ALL bad, some cats do well with this, and since I am not a cat owner, I gather some don't. I just mean that in my personal experiance, the cats have seemed quite content in this situation. If I ever thought an animal was in a cruel situation, I wouldn't condone it at all!
    Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends.

  49. #949
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Fair enough then, sorry if I jumped on you, again I think this has to do with cultural differences, as Harpy says, it's still most common here to let cats roam freely outdoors.

  50. #950
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: "Pets" - Which of these statements do you agree with?

    Yes I think you would have to supervise the cat or other animal pretty closely if you did that - it reminds me of one of my mother's stories about some bright spark (my grandfather I think) who for some reason decided to tie a family cat up by its collar and after a while noticed that the rope was taut and found the cat dangling, having jumped over a fence and literally reached the end of its tether The cat was OK apparently but it's not something you'd want to risk.

    We have some friends in the US who let their cats out on a screened porch (mesh-enclosed veranda type of thing) which seems a reasonable compromise although not quite the same as going out - still the risks to outdoor cats from predators, poisoning etc do seem to be greater over there than here where outdoor cats quite often live to an advanced age.

Similar Threads

  1. "Veganic" does not equal "vegan"
    By bQ in forum Projects, companies & links
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Dec 21st, 2011, 09:28 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Mar 25th, 2011, 10:59 AM

Tags for this thread (If you see one or more tags below, click on them if you're looking for similar threads!)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •