Silk and wool

[St George]

Hi. As anyone who has read my previous couple of posts will know,i am currently in the process of becoming vegan.
To do that, i need all the info that i can get!
Excuse my ignorance,but what is the objection to the use of wool and silk? I am not asking that question because i think it is ok to use silk and wool,i just want to know what the official vegan standpoint is against it.

Also,as an add-on,what about honey? Is it simply because it is an animal product? Or is there specific cruelty involved?

Cheers

[TheFirstBus]

Everytime silk is obtained it is at the expense of a silkworm, who are boiled in the caccon to obtain the unborken silk. But wool sheep are not treated very well while shearing as time is a factor, they can often be cut while being sheared, while some will argue that shearing is doing a favor to the sheeep it has been shown that an unshaven sheep will grow just enough whool for his little wooly body that and I think they begin shearing at a very young age. Some people have debated wether insects are involved in our compasion for the animal kingdom, I myself don't much enjoy bugs at all though I see no reason to kill the poor things when there are other ways to deal with them. In a honey farm the queen bees wings are sometime clipped not to mention when a farmer has to remove the honey he must remove the bess and can crush quite a few of them in the process. So there it is, you may want to look up more on silk considering thats just a peice of it I looked up right now just for you. So there are your reasons.

[St George]

TheFirstBus,i thank you

I most certainly shall look up more on the subject.

Thanks.

[TheFirstBus]

No problem

[Veganmama]

Hi St George

If you look at Indian Vegans siite he has some pics of silk making http://www.indianvegan.com

[eve]

Honey info: http://www.vegansociety.com/html/ani...ation/bees.php

[eve]

Wool: http://www.vegansociety.com/search/s...gansociety.com

[eve]

Silk: http://www.vegansociety.com/search/s...gansociety.com

[gertvegan]

St George, check out www.woolisbaad.com , http://www.vegsource.com/jo/qa/qasilk.htm for your silk query, and http://www.vegsource.com/jo/qa/qahoney.htm for the honey query.

[indianvegan]

Silk is very cruel product. I have seen with my own eyes, Steam bath of Silk Worms, after that they put them for boiling, the silk manufacturing in my city here. Silk is very common in Indian Women's dresses,Neck Tie,Mens'Shirts,Lingerie,Curtain,Sofa Covers, Bed Covers,Linen .

I have recorded a video film on total Silk Manufacturing.However you can see some of pictures on my site as well.

Manish

[indianvegan]

Wool is very cruel product too:-

Recently , i been to a Angora breeding Farm house at Kullu(Himachal Pradesh) in India. I could find pains and fear in the eyes of Rabits inside cages. There were thousands white angora Rabits inside cages. They take birth inside cages and they do inside cages.They have no room for their own life. They are feeded like that in every 70 days their hair are plucked from them.They are so soft and delicate that slight pressure on their body or neck area can kill them. Farm owners really suck them to any extent.
Farm owner told me while talking to him,"without human intervention they would not have excess hair on their body.

any one of you need pictures of breeding farm can contact me.

Manish

[korova]

i view them as exploitation of animals, and so don't use/wear wool or silk.

[gertvegan]

What's Wrong with Wool? by Joanne Stepaniak, HERE.

Is Silk Vegan? by Joanne Stepaniak, HERE.

ps I ought be on commission for all these links to her site.

[indianvegan]

Here you can see images of one Silk Manufacturing unit. Silk is not Vegan.
http://www.indianvegan.com/Silk.htm

Manish

[eve]

gertvegan, your links to Stepaniak are great. Yes you deserve commission!

[Geoff]

On Australian TV show 'Sunrise' this morning presenter David Koch referred to PETA as being 'crackpots damaging our wool industry' because of their campaign against the horrific practice of mulesing.
Please let him know (sunrise@seven.com.au) why caring people would want mulesing abolished.
Thank you

[Liberate]

Does anyone know anything about this? I came in to see the end of the story on the news!

[TheFirstBus]

Though I don't support PETA I don't support the wool industry either. I have snet an email.

[Roxy]

I wonder what how bad a "crackpot" this David Koch would turn into, if we took a pair of blunt shears to his buttocks and sliced a nice crescent shaped piece of flesh off without giving him any anesthetic first. Then while we were at it we could castrate him as well. We could either just cut his scrotum off or we could apply a tight rubber ring so that his testes eventually drop off.

This is sadly how Australian sheep are treated. I wonder if this dickhead TV presenter knows this! If PETA are damaging the wool industry in Australia then I for one, am glad! What gives us humans the right to conduct such abhorent practices on those poor sheep. It makes me so sad and angry I don't know weather I want to cry or scream! That David Koch sounds like a right F*kin Idiot!

[Liberate]

Thank you!

[Geoff]

It's good to see that you haven't lost your command of the Aus. idiom Roxy!
Your assessment of David Koch is pretty right. I'll see if I can get a home address for him and send some info on mulesing.
Actually, mulesing doesn't sound so bad as one of the farmers representatives said it was 'just like going to the dentist' and that the farmers did it because they care about their animals. Yeah, right.

[eve]

The Australian RSPCA has distanced itself from a campaign against Australian wool being run by PETA. The group has pressured major American retailer Abercrombie and Fitch to boycott Aussie wool in its 749 US shops. RSPCA national president Dr Hugh Wirth says radical and extreme animal rights groups set back the work of his organisation.

"Well you can't sit down with animal rights people, ... they're irrational ... they claim to occupy the high moral ground. "And therefore, it is all or nothing in their view. There is no compromise position that is acceptable and if you give in to them once, you have to continue giving into them."

Dr Wirth says the RSPCA supports a modified mulesing practice, where the wool is left on the sheep's tail, where alternatives aren't available. Meanwhile, the South Australian Farmers Federation says producers would stop the practice of mulesing to prevent fly blown sheep if an alternative was found. Their president John Lush says until better methods of preventing fly strike are found, the practice will continue.

[Liberate]

Thank you for that! After i posted this thread i actually went and spoke to some friends and they explained everything

[Geoff]

I just heard that Aus wool growers have decided to stop the mulesing of sheep in the hope that the PETA / Abercrombie & Fitch ban will be lifted.
Unfortunately mulesing will continue for some years under their proposal.
I say stop it NOW - there are alternatives.

[veganblue]

Report in ABC news ABC in Australia that is

This is a great development. It is concerning that if the phase out is possible by 2010 why the head of the RSPCA and WISPA declared that mulesing was a necessary part of keeping sheep. One would have hoped that the RSPCA could at least have spoken out about it with a strong voice. It seems again that it is hobbled or compromised when it comes to protecting non-companion animals.

[veganblue]

PETA WOOL BOYCOTT IN FULL FORCE
GROUP DENOUNCES INDUSTRY'S TRANSPARENT ATTEMPT TO FORESTALL RETAILERS' ACTION

________________________________

PETA is pleased to have pushed the Australian wool industry to finally hold an emergency meeting last night from which a promise emerged that the crude and cruel practice of mulesing (in which slices of flesh are cut with a pair of shears from a lamb's hindquarters without any painkiller) would be ended by 2010. The announcement comes fifteen years after a Senate subcommittee called for its elimination. However, dissenting voices from within the wool industry say that mulesing can be eliminated now and PETA agrees, offering proven viable alternatives such as good animal husbandry practices-which have been abandoned by many farmers in favour of slovenly oversight of sheep flocks, flystrike preventative measures including fly trapping, regular worming, introducing smooth breech wool breeds, shaving (crutching) the sheep's hindquarters regularly, and more. PETA has condemned last night's announcement as a public relations move designed to ward off pending action by overseas retailers.

PETA's Asia-Pacific Director Jason Baker said today in Sydney, "Millions of sheep will experience the agony of mulesing between now and 2010 unless consumers and retailers apply pressure for an immediate switch to humane flystrike control methods. The wool industry has a history of broken promises when it comes to change and this new promise does not satisfy our demand for an immediate end to mulesing and live exports in which tens of thousands of sheep die badly each year. Our boycott still stands. As for accreditation of mulesing, you cannot accredite a mutilation and enforcement of petty rules over its conduct is impossible."

It is estimated that 20% of Australian sheep farmers do not practice mulesing.

For more information and to view mulesing video go to SaveTheSheep.com.

[tails4wagging]

How barbaric!. Why do they do that, slicing the flesh of lambs, for Gods sake?.

[PinkFluffyCloud]

God, things just get worse!
I didn't know about that one.
Lets just pray for instant Karma.

[Geoff]

60 Minutes on Sunday is doing an item on the 'foreign invader who is trying to wreck our wool industry' I imagine that it's about the PETA campaign to stop mulesing and should be worth a look, if only to get yourself fired up.

[Geoff]

Fired up is right! The 60 Minutes reporter was totally biased against Ingrid Newkirk who presented an excellent case. They insisted that she was trying to bring the Aus wool industry to its knees. Nothing to do with preventing shocking cruelty of course! As she said, if they sliced skin off a dog or cat with a pair of shears they'd be in jail.
The programme showed mulesing being performed, preceded by the warning that 'some viewers may find the images disturbing!!!' I've only just stopped shaking (with rage and shock) an hour after the item aired. Night time here and no-one to talk to about how I feel, except you lot.

[Geoff]

There's a lot of info about the campaign at 'savethesheep.com'

[Ben]

the South Australian Farmers Federation says producers would stop the practice of mulesing to prevent fly blown sheep if an alternative was found. Their president John Lush says until better methods of preventing fly strike are found, the practice will continue.

Here's an alternative: stop exploiting animals for clothing and start working for the cotton industry.

[PinkFluffyCloud]

I am happy to note that all the Sheep where I live are left 'au natural', complete with their tails on, but many are lame.

[jackrabbitfreedom]

If the product came from something with a face, it is not vegan. Almost all animal products must be takin' by force from the animal if not also taking the aniamal's life. As far as honey, I was a bee keeper's assistant in high school and, yes, the process of getting honey or transplanting queens does put a lot of stress on the hive.... Hope you find the info you are looking for.

[Stefania]

Hello everyone
What have you done with your old silk/wool clothes?

[Blueberries]

Hello everyone
What have you done with your old silk/wool clothes?

I'm sure there's a couple of threads around the forum about what to do with your old non-vegan stuff. There're generally two camps, either wear them until they wear out and get vegan replacements or give them away to friends/charity etc and get new stuff.

[Robinwomb]

I gave my silk, wool, leather, and other animal derived clothing/shoes/products to various charities. Most I was able to give away within a month of becoming vegan but the leather hiking boots and biking shoes took a little longer to replace with good quality vegan ones. I simply can not comfortably wear animal derived products anymore, but if someone else who is vegan is using up their old ones and cant afford to replace them I certainly wouldnt look down on them. I received inheritance money that helped me immensely in my transition. My toiletries and cleaning supplies that were animal derived I brought to a local waste disposal facility owned by the city to be properly disposed of. I have a bird cage left over from several birds I used to have as "pets" and that I plan to donate only to an animal rescue agency as i do not want some other unfortunate "pet" to be stuck in it for the duration of it's life. I also try to be mindful that some people who rely on charities to help them through hard times are also vegan and may not be comfortable eating or wearing animal derived products so I try to include vegan friendly foods and clothes to donate to charities as well. I have gotten most of my clothes from second hand stores too.

[Stefania]

Thank you Robinwomb and Blueberries,

I have really appreciated your comments and I fell the same sensation.
I have only some shirt (I have bought some shoes from Vegetarian Shoes, but they are for winter, now it's time for a new pair for spring/summer – not only from Veg Shoes of course), but different items in wool for the winter.

I can start now thinking in advance

[Katarzyna]

Hi. Please remember about lanolin as well, which is an ingredient in many cremes etc., it is derived from wool, exactly from ship's sweat and fat, obtained through shredding

[Aurore]

Good point !
Honestly, i keep my 3 cashmere pullovers, i have eczema so finding warm nice clothes for winter is hard enough i don't want to throw away those that don't itch me. Plus they're not top quality so they won't last much longer.

- - - Updated - - -

Good point !
Honestly, i keep my 3 cashmere pullovers, i have eczema so finding warm nice clothes for winter is hard enough i don't want to throw away those that don't itch me. Plus they're not top quality so they won't last much longer.

[monkeys mum]

I am just curious, what would you wear if you don't wear wool or other animal products? Just cotton? the cotton industry is pretty horrific, killing a lot of wildlife.
I have vegan shoes, but feel bad about them because I know they are made from petrochemicals, which I consider to be very damaging to the environment. (these are genuine questions that are playing in my mind, not meaning to be challenging to anyone's ideas)

I am not sure yet how I am going to deal with this. Luckily most of my jumpers are handspun (by me) from sheep shorn by me and my friends and kept by us. They are treated good. And I think that's where I draw the line, animal products from animals that are kept well, are ok, or at least better than supporting other unethical and horrid industries, such as cotton and petrochemicals.

I wish I had lots of money, then I'd buy good stuff only!