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Thread: What next for Whole Foods Market?

  1. #1
    gertvegan's Avatar
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    Lightbulb What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Brief but interesting thoughts by the manager of Bristol's Better Food Company.

    Here at the Better Food Company we historically haven’t had much time for the big Supermarkets, mainly because of the complete lack of ethics involved in the way they do business. Because of this we’re often asked about our opinion on the expansion of what was once a little vegetarian ‘natural’ food company called Safer-way, now the juggernaut of the ‘health food’ industry that is Whole Foods Market.

    For those of you who have never heard of them, Whole Foods are a big American multinational company who have recently entered the UK under the guise of Fresh & Wild. Started many moons ago as a solution to the American supermarket Safeway, Safer-way couldn’t have had stronger principles. And because of this they became quite successful. I’m not sure anyone back then could have imagined how different it would all become though. They now have stores to match Tesco’s worst, and stock food from the four corners of the world, a claim which is only surprising in the fact that the world is actually round. And they recently just bought out the US’s other big health food chain, Wild Oats, giving them as much as is possible of a monopoly in the US market.

    So when asked what we think of them and the whole concept of the juxtaposition that is a huge ethical multinational company, we’re a bit stuck. Yes it’s better than a Wal-Mart (ASDA in British terms). But only in degrees. The food is better, though a lot of it is not organic or local. But its size is now making it into the Wal-Mart of the ‘natural’ food industry, and hence killing off the independent local traders in the process, whilst driving down prices for farmers in pretty much a similar fashion to the mainstream guys. This we unequivocally state is not healthy, for communities, farmers or the environment. As I stated earlier they now have entered the UK market through Fresh & Wild, and you may have spotted their logos and ‘Core Values’ all over their store in Clifton. And with the logo came the conventionally grown produce and move towards non-local and non-organic. This is what I’m worried about. I foresee that over the next 10 years Whole Foods Market will proliferate at the rate it has it the US, and not only kill of some of the oldest and most traditional independent organic and health food stores in the UK, but also add to the increased Americanisation of British culture, something equally as scary. So I think instead of asking us what do you think, the British public need to make up its mind what it wants. The choice is simple.

    Big and superficial or small and truly wholesome?

    As Fritz Schumacher once stated, “Small is beautiful.” What will the British public state?

  2. #2
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Is it not possible to be a large successful company unless you are evil? Since Whole Foods Market may be new to many of our readers, I thought I'd point out some observations of mine, having shopped there for some time, here in the US.

    Firstly, the store is clean, orderly, and the staff is friendly and helpful. Their suggestion box is not a box; it is a public bulletin board for all to see, showing an open dialog between customers and management.

    For veg*n shoppers, it's paradise! They have a vegan bakery section (absolutely unheard of, at least here in US stores). A large salad/hot-food bar with ingredients listings clearly marked for each food (also rare) including a selection of different tofus, tempeh, beans, and edamame dishes. They have the largest organic vegetable & fruit section of any store I've ever been to. They exclusively sell "cage-free" eggs (better than nothing, I guess )

    From their website:
    "We are appalled with the cruelty of traditionally raised veal and, in addition to refusing to sell it, we work with ranchers to develop and support humane methods of meat and poultry production.

    We educate our customers about the cruelty of animal testing of body-care products, helping to influence the marketplace by taking a clear stance that those types of products will not be tolerated."


    Oh, and one more thing, their head guy, John Mackey (co-founder, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of the Board of Directors) is a vegan!

  3. #3
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quite looking forward to seeing inside the Whole Foods Market in Kensington when it opens next month (especially if it's going to have a vegan bakery!). There has been a lot of press coverage, some of it critical, e.g. http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2043769,00.html

    It will be interesting to see how they do because the competitive scene is a bit different here from in the US, I think: for example there are supermarket chains here that have banned battery eggs, and that carry a lot of organic and free-range stuff. But WFM have owned our Fresh & Wild chain for a while so should know what they're doing.

  4. #4

    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I have always found Wholefoods (the ones in LA) bizarre places, smelling of fish and meat and full of people spending huge amounts of disposable income "for health reasons".
    The amount of waste in one store doesn't even bear thinking about.
    Not my thing at all.

  5. #5
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I haven't been to one but I have been to a Wild Oats in Florida which I think is similar (and which has AIUI now been taken over by WFM ) ? I thought it was OK and it did have some vegan stuff I hadn't seen elsewhere. Think they probably were selling meat but it must have beene tucked away somewhere that I didn't go.

    Not keen on supermarkets in general and can't see myself doing a lot of shopping there (we get our fruit, veg and most groceries delivered by one of those organic box schemes anyway) but I wouldn't rule out buying the odd thing.

  6. #6
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Harpy, just to clarify, they don't have an entire vegan bakery, just a small, vegan labeled section offering perhaps 2 or 3 kinds of doughnuts, muffins, cookies (biscuits), scones, cake, and rughella (sp?). No croissants, or pie, to the best of my knowledge. Not that I would ever eat such things.

    Horselesspaul, LA is a bizarre place on its own, but I've never smelled meat or fish in any of their stores and have been to them hundreds of times. Yes they have a large meat and fish section, but I never venture through that part. No live lobster tanks to stick "Being Boiled Hurts!" stickers on either, they don't believe in them.
    From what I understand (but don't hold me to it), they do still sell live lobsters only in their Maine stores (where it is considered your patriotic duty to eat lobster! ) but use two innovative techniques I only learned of yesterday; "CrustaStun" and "lobster condos". I know most of you must be thinking "What the ..?" so I'll explain. CrustaStun is a device which instantly electrocutes the lobster right when you buy it instead of letting it die from suffocation, dehydration, and boiling (which is of course the norm for all other lobsters). Condos are individual cubicles each lobster lives in during transport and storage at the store. I guess lobsters are thought to prefer their own private prison cells instead of being piled on top of each other and being crushed by other inmates. Hey, don't blame the messenger, I'm just relaying information. More on their general live lobster ban here.

    Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "waste" but their stores I go to encourage recycling in many ways. "Paper or plastic bag?" at checkout (or even better they sell reusable canvas bags), salad bar washable dishware option for those that want to eat in the store instead of just disposable containers only, trash bins separating plastic, glass and other waste, and they take in old cell phones and ink-jet printer cartridges for recycling. They've actually won awards for their environmentalism and "animal friendliness" from the EPA and Peta! I'm convinced they really are trying to make a difference and it's not just for show.

  7. #7
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote horselesspaul View Post
    I have always found Wholefoods (the ones in LA) bizarre places, smelling of fish and meat and full of people spending huge amounts of disposable income "for health reasons".
    This pretty much sums up my view of Fresh and Wild. They've some products that aren't elsewhere, but everything is overpriced (generally between 33-50% mark-up on local health food stores in the UK) and they've lots of non vegan products too. Most of the food in their cafe/bakery isn't vegan. Both the staff and customers seem as miserable as in any shop and they've a large snooty wannabe hippy cliental.
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  8. #8
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    Harpy, just to clarify, they don't have an entire vegan bakery, just a small, vegan labeled section offering perhaps 2 or 3 kinds of doughnuts, muffins, cookies (biscuits), scones, cake, and rughella (sp?). No croissants, or pie, to the best of my knowledge.

    Good enough!

    Not that I would ever eat such things.
    Nor me Just as well it isn't going to be very handy for where I live.

  9. #9

    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    Horselesspaul, LA is a bizarre place on its own, but I've never smelled meat or fish in any of their stores and have been to them hundreds of times.
    Go to the one on Fallbrook(iirc), it reeks. Minging.
    Quote Mahk View Post
    Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "waste" but their stores I go to encourage recycling in many ways.
    I mean all the exotic overpriced perishable food that the mostly part-time conscience-salving LA clientelle fail to buy. The other side of "choice".

    Personally, I like my dedicated wholefood stores at least vegetarian, if not vegan.
    The whole meat and fish and wholefoods thing is anathema to me.

  10. #10
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Unfortunately, exclusively vegetarian/vegan food stores don't exist in my part of the woods. You're lucky you have that option.

  11. #11

    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    Unfortunately, exclusively vegetarian/vegan food stores don't exist in my part of the woods. You're lucky you have that option.
    In my experience, here in the UK most "wholefood" stores are vegetarian or vegan. I wonder why?

  12. #12
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Maybe life in the country or suburbs is different, but here in my city (Boston) food stores don't specialize; they all carry all food groups, regardless of store size. I can barely remember the last time I saw a store that was, for instance, just a bakery (I was traveling and in the country).............. At least we also don't have butcher shops!

  13. #13
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    We have one Whole Foods Market in Vancouver, but they're currently building another one, and very soon we'll have 2.

    The one that's currently operating is quite far from where I live, but when I'm over that side of town, I like to go in and wander around and pick up a few vegan specialty items that I can't find anywhere else in the city.

    I have noticed the terrible "stink" that comes from the fish department, which is located at the end of the produce department. It makes me want to gag when I walk by it.

    Usually though, I shop at a smaller family run and locally owned group of natural foods stores.

  14. #14
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Are there any all-vegetarian wholefood shops in London, does anyone know? I'm sure there must be but I can't think of any off-hand. There used to be the one above the Country Life restaurant but that doesn't exist any more I don't think.

  15. #15
    Not Giving Up Pisces's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    There is a vegetarian shop (worker's co-op) in Notting Hill in West London called Portobello Wholefoods.

    Its contact information/location is:

    Portobello Wholefoods
    266 Portobello Road, Notting Hill (W10 5TY)

    phone number: 020-8968-9133

  16. #16
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Thank you for finding that, Pisces. I'll have to investigate Portobello Wholefoods.

  17. #17
    Not Giving Up Pisces's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    You're welcome, harpy.

    I'd be curious to know what it's like.

  18. #18
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I went to WFM for a sushi snack today. Carrot/avocado/cucumber in brown rice with sliced ginger (w/o artificial red coloring). I can't get this anywhere else.
    I also took photos so we can compare, internationally, if WFM's are all the same or not. Here we go:
    Vegan Bakery Section:


    Also about 2/3 of these muffins, scones etc are vegan:


    Salad bar with tempeh, and three tofus (one had honey ) Also, note the ingredients
    list above each food; that's very rare for salad bars here:


    The Bulk section is 99% organic:


    Soy/rice/nut "milks":


    Tofu, tempeh, 3 kinds of seitan (one has honey, the red box on sale ):

    The hummus, tabooli (sp?) etc section is the same size as this one above.

    The cereal section has none of the traditional American junk brands like Post, General Mills, Kellogg's, etc.;
    these are all "health" brands and mostly vegan (watch out for honey, yet again ):


    All organic veggies:


    Make your own salad dressing concoction:


    I didn't know where to throw away my chopsticks after I ate the sushi. Compost or paper?


    They label what's locally made/grown and give out flyer's with lists:


    I walked through the fish section to see what smell you have all been talking about. To me it smells like "the ocean", hard to describe but it didn't really bother me. Are you all saying that other stores that have open, fresh fish sections don't smell, but WFM does?

    It's true that if you see an item you think you might like they will let you sample it first to see! How odd. (You must first ask a worker to help you). I'm guessing this works on the "guilt principal" that they know 99% of people will buy it and only 1 % will say, "No thank you, you can throw the rest of the package away now."

    They have price comparison charts posted, showing that an "average" shopping list from their store costs less than their nearest competitor, Traitor Joes, but I haven't looked at it in detail to see if it seems like a fair comparison. I know my sushi is the most expensive in town (by around 20%) but it doesn't seem fair to compare it to stale, carrot-less, red-dye-colored sliced ginger, white rice only sushi.

  19. #19

    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    I walked through the fish section to see what smell you have all been talking about. To me it smells like "the ocean", hard to describe but it didn't really bother me. Are you all saying that other stores that have open, fresh fish sections don't smell, but WFM does?
    "The ocean" doesn't smell like slightly ageing dead sh1t in my experience. The strange thing for me, as I have pointed out on several occasions, is that a dedicated store would sell dead stuff, that is unusual here in the UK.
    You really are quite a fan aren't you Mahk? I'm glad it works for you.
    Personally, I shall be avoiding the ones in the UK like a cup of cold sick.
    I am lucky, having a family owned, small shop within walking distance where the least vegan things on offer are milk and honey,

    Peas,

    Paul.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Living in Brighton is akin to being down the road from vegan paradise horselesspaul, not all of us are that lucky. Those pics of Mahk's were amazing, I have never seen that much choice in a health food store. The Whole Food's Market in Soho comes close and that's an occasional treat.

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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Thanks for posting the pictures Mahk...to me that looks fantastic....just being able to walk into a shop and have that much choice - there's nothing that comes even close to offering even (at least) a 1/10th of that near me - it entails a 4mile round trip just to get to buy a block of tofu If I want tempeh/seitan/soy cheese/icecream etc then I'm looking at possibly a 30 mile round trip or order it from such as Goodness Direct.

    Personally I'd be thrilled to have a store like that near me
    Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
    Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

  22. #22

    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    Living in Brighton is akin to being down the road from vegan paradise horselesspaul, not all of us are that lucky. Those pics of Mahk's were amazing, I have never seen that much choice in a health food store. The Whole Food's Market in Soho comes close and that's an occasional treat.
    I know we're really lucky here and am grateful for that, it's just the conspicuous omni consumption that's fed by Wholefoods is not really what I look for in a shop dedicated to health foods. The stuff they must throw away..
    Their skips in LA were locked by the way.

    I know I'm a grumpy.

  23. #23
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote horselesspaul View Post
    You really are quite a fan aren't you Mahk? I'm glad it works for you.
    I'm just trying to give people who have never been to one an overview, as objectively as I can, as to what WFM is all about. Since I go there weekly, always have my digital camera on me anyway, and have the perspective of a vegan, I thought I'd be in a good position to do that. My intention is not in promoting them, I'm just describing them.

    I agree with you about their clientele 100%. You are spot on in your description of their average clientele as being conspicuous-consumption types wanting to momentarily cleanse their guilt for living a decedent lifestyle, but I don't blame WFM for feeding them. John Mackey, their vegan CEO guy, was once asked, "So why aren't your stores at least vegetarian, if not vegan?" His answer was (I'm paraphrasing), "Because I'd go bankrupt otherwise. 99% of our customers want us to carry animal products. I sell a lot of things I personally am against: white sugar, beer, wine for example. I'm not here to push my beliefs on others, I'm here to make a living." Judging from the shopping baskets and carts of other shoppers I see while waiting in line (at checkout), I can tell he's right. I wish things were different but that's life.

    Also, I figured out why I don't see "Fruit Loops", "Captain Crunch", or similar such cereals (which fill the aisles of the other supermarkets); they have a specific policy on avoiding all the chemicals found in them: WFM's Quality Standards: Unacceptable Food Ingredients
    If only we could convince them to add "honey" and a few others to that list we'd be all set!

  24. #24

    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Nice post Mahk.
    WFM is a phenomenon for sure.

    All the best,

    Paul.

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    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Thanks for posting the pics Mahk. For the most part the WFM here in Vancouver looks very similar to the one you visited. EXCEPT we don't have a vegan section like that in the bakery!! I wish we did and I think I'll email them about it.

    About the seafood department. The one at WFM smells awful to me, but I find the seafood section in any grocery store to smell repulsive.

  26. #26
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I generally spread my business (such as it is) around a bit and will be happy to try the new WFM (particularly after seeing Mahk's pics!), as well as the nice-sounding co-op one Pisces found.

    Generally though I'll continue to buy most of my stuff at the local shops, although they're neither well-stocked nor particularly ideologically sound, basically because I'd be stuffed if they didn't exist.

  27. #27

    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    Living in Brighton is akin to being down the road from vegan paradise horselesspaul, not all of us are that lucky. Those pics of Mahk's were amazing, I have never seen that much choice in a health food store. The Whole Food's Market in Soho comes close and that's an occasional treat.
    Actually I wanted to say that I really valued that fact that Wholefoods was there at the time. I was working in Los Angeles for six months and was having my lunch bought from there for me most days. I would have been living on take away felafel, hommus, tabouleh (oh! the tinsel towned agony) for the duration without them to be honest.
    Amazing array of stuff everywhere. I love their tofu stuff and chocolate mint cake things and they sell London Pride so they can't be all bad..
    but both stores in the Valley ming like a bad fishy ting innit.

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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I do think WF is nice for some things, but the prices are often high (at least in the States). Also, wrt the vegan bakery..this varies very very widely. When I lived in Chicago, the stores there generally had vegan baked goods, mostly outsourced from a local bakery. When I was in DC however, vegan treats were far and few between (one store had only some sad-ass peanut butter cookies).

    When is the Kensington store opening? June?

  29. #29
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote horselesspaul View Post
    The stuff they must throw away..
    Their skips in LA were locked by the way.
    That went right over my head... .. I had to lookup "skips" (we call them "dumpsters", here in the US) You would not have found much leftover or spoiled food though, they compost all of that: "Spoiled produce and other biodegradable waste that used to go into landfills is now being backhauled by our delivery trucks to regional facilities where it is turned into compost that is then either donated to community gardens or sold in our stores, reducing our landfill waste by up to 75%" They have "look how green we are" propaganda all over the store and at their website, although it may be a marketing ploy just as much as it's about their concern for what's in my avatar picture.

    They probably do have a lot of waste though, considering how all their food displays are immaculate (usually).

    It's odd that fois gras and cochineal/carmine (crushed bugs) make the "unacceptable ingredients list" I linked to earlier, yet they are all natural. WFM seems to be wishy-washy on which animals can or can't be abused/killed.

    Refinnej, the selection of vegan baked goods even varies between the branches within the same city! I have no idea why.

  30. #30
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I thought US food companies were meant to be a bit better than ours about giving food past its expiry date to homeless people's programmes and so on? Obviously not if it's spoiled...

    The Kensington one is meant to be opening on June 6th according to the Torygraph:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/ma...wkfront105.xml

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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    The Whole Food founder, John Mackey, became vegan only a couple a years ago, so it was probably too late to change the whole business (all the stores) vegan.
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?


  33. #33
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I went to the new Whole Food Market in Kensington High Street on Friday evening, to buy some stuff for a picnic in Holland Park. I found it so big, crowded and confusingly laid out that I would probably have had an attack of the vapours if I hadn't been with a calm friend. It also took ages to pay, despite the fact that they seem to have about 60 tills.

    Still, they have some interesting-looking stuff in there, including quite a bit that I haven't seen elsewhere in the UK. What I bought (esp some olives stuffed with almonds) was tasty and not noticeably expensive by health food shop standards. And I didn't even get as far as the tofu counter. Will go back for another look at a less busy time.

    They seem to be keen to emphasise the Britishness of the operation because there was a large sign up saying something like "All our bottle milk comes from a small family-run farm in Cotswold".

  34. #34
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I have never even heard of WFM I will have to venture into Central London again.

    Mahk - that place you took photos of looks to me like a vegan paradise, I didn't know these places existed!

    Harpy - is the one in Kensington as good as the one Mahk showed us?

  35. #35
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I can't really say until I go back, Aphrodite, as I was too busy panicking. I didn't come upon any massed ranks of vegan cookies etc but I might well have missed them in my rush to escape.

    There were a few possibly-vegan cookies on the way to the check-out, and I found some ideologically-sound Biona mints that should enable us to kick our shameful Polo habit

  36. #36
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Harpy - I get like that in crowded places, it makes me feel like I can't breathe.
    I think I might take a trip to London when I am feeling rich and go to WFM and Fresh and Wild etc..

    (Oh weird you should mention Polos the other day I had a total Extra Strong Mint craving, I have no idea why....I haven't had them in years mmm that minty chalky type of taste - I assume they have some kind of animal product in them so I will refrain.)

  37. #37
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Aphrodite, calling WFM a "vegan paradise" would not be exactly accurate because what my photos don't show are the rows and rows of meat and open air fish that also exist there. I just want to be clear, this is an omni store, not vegan.

    Harpy, at least here where I live, WFM has a house brand called "365" which among other things make peppermints that come in a blue tin by the check-out. They are quite good:

  38. #38
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I was surprised by the range of vegan stuff available. I would love to see that type of choice in a UK supermarket - I have never seen that amount of choice in a UK shop but I will have branch out and try other ones.

  39. #39
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Thank you Mahk - I will look out for those, although I've just ordered about a ton of the Biona ones from goodnessdirect

    They do have the same sort of packaging over here, with the "365" I think. They also use the brand "Fresh and Wild"; someone else (Tesco?) had already registered "Whole Food", I read.

    Aphrodite, I find the original Fresh and Wild stores a bit easier to handle than the new one - they're fairly small. Yes I think most of the mainstream mints still have gelatine in them unfortunately. There is one kind called Uncle Joe's Mint Balls that's OK from that point of view, but a bit impractical for the theatre, which is where we mainly have our peppermint habit

  40. #40
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I shop Whole Foods, they have really good prices on tofu. 99 cent for a water pack! They also have a pretty nice variety of vegan things, especially body stuff.
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

  41. #41
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I went to Whole Foods Market in Kensington for lunch yesterday and did a bit of shopping. The lunch part was fine with several things labelled vegan (and other things that turned out to be vegan) - I had delicious fattoush, tabouleh and stuffed vine leaves plus mineral water for a reasonable-ish £7. The food court is quite pleasant although my American friend was scathing about the way it was laid out (e.g. you have to queue separately for coffee and food - but there wasn't much of a queue).

    The shop was a lot less crowded than the time before so I found it less oppressive, even though I still got lost a few times. However it doesn't really seem to be a mine of exciting vegan stuff - the tofu, tempeh etc are much the same selection you would get in a small Fresh and Wild branch. If they have a vegan cookie shelf I didn't find it (quite possible).

    They do have some nice merchandise but some of it seems pricy. e.g. I found Yarrah organic catfood for one pound twenty-something whereas I pay sixty-something on-line (OK there's bound to be a difference but that seems rather a wide one). They have Ami and Benevo vegetarian/vegan petfoods and there the premium was less - bags of Ami Cat were £12-something as opposed about £10 from Veggiepets.

    They have two sections selling fairtrade clothes and stuff (e.g. PeopleTree).

    Got to try the co-op Pisces found next...
    Last edited by harpy; Jul 22nd, 2007 at 12:36 AM. Reason: spelling

  42. #42
    gertvegan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I've heard that the Bristol store is or was losing about £60,000 per month!!!

  43. #43
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    They haven't been getting very good press lately:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/f3304e34-31a...0779fd2ac.html

  44. #44

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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    I'm not a huge fan of Whole Foods principles. I do think that the people there are friendly and I do like that they don't carry food containing things like high fructose corn syrup or hydrogenated oils. I would much prefer to shop at a local co-op. Something with more local and more organic food options. I think some people go into WFM expecting most of the produce to be organic. Which from what I have seen very little of it is. What really bothers me about WFM is that the man who started it claims to be a vegan. I think that selling dead animals and animal products for profit is very very not vegan. He says his company wouldn't remain profitable if it stopped selling meat and other animal products. I think he should try and help the cause instead of hurting it. No more happy meat!

  45. #45
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote Tori View Post
    What really bothers me about FM is that the man who started it claims to be a vegan. I think that selling dead animals and animal products for profit is very very not vegan. He says his company wouldn't remain profitable if it stopped selling meat and other animal products. I think he should try and help the cause instead of hurting it. No more happy meat!
    Do you know of any food stores that are vegan? Even my local, occasional "farmer's market", similar I suppose to your co-op, has a considerable selection of baked goods (eggs, milk), cheeses, candied apples (butter) etc. making them decidedly not vegan either. I agree it would be great if WFM tried a conversion to become vegan in theory, but practically I suspect they would fail miserably just as would any large food distribution network, say for example McDonald's. If they stop selling what the public demands the public will just shop elsewhere and the business would fail. Vegans represent perhaps .1% of the buying public, I'd say.

  46. #46

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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Yes I have taken this into consideration, and keep going back and forth about it in my head. WFM makes happy meat seem like it is avery good alternative to conventional meats. So people considering veganism and vegetarianism may see this as a very good excuse to continue eating animal products.

    Also, as a vegan, could you open a grocery store and sell animal products for profit? Its like being against abortion and opening an abortion clinic. Its so contraditory.

  47. #47
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote Tori View Post
    Also, as a vegan, could you open a grocery store and sell animal products for profit?
    For me personally, the answer is "yes". Your hierarchy within the company is immaterial. It's really no different than having a part time job in an all natural clothing store that also sells leather belts, being a cashier in a large department store that happens to sell silk ties or working at a vegetarian café waiting tables and serving people cream for their coffee. 99.9% of the world we live in isn't vegan and if you decide to interact commercially with that world you have to accept that in a certain sense you too are financially gaining from the killing of animals. The only way to escape this is to live in a self sufficient vegan community and they are rather rare. Sorry if this sounds negative but this is my take on the world. On the bright side, if I convert even just one of those meat eaters to vegan-ism which I interact with, I feel I've effectively saved hundreds if not thousands of animals lives.

    P.S. If you lived on a vegan commune you'd never have the opportunity to do that now would you?

  48. #48

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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Well I guess the way I see it is there are vegan shops, vegan resturants, and vegetarian co-ops that have all been successful. Maybe the owners of such shops aren't stinking rich but at least they are standing up for there moral values. By doing this it shows people that veganism isn't some far out idea. That it isn't a hard thing to do. WFM makes veganism seem hard and gives people alternatives to it. Alternatives just aren't good enough!!!

  49. #49
    RubyDuby
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    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    99.9% of the world we live in isn't vegan and if you decide to interact commercially with that world you have to accept that in a certain sense you too are financially gaining from the killing of animals.
    Arent there plenty of grocery items that are vegan by nature? Produce (fresh, frozen, canned), breads, bulk, sauces, grains, milks, meat and cheese alternatives, hygene and beauty products, etc. Maybe WFM wouldnt be as huge as it is, but the guy who started it didn't need it to be huge to be comfortable financially. Is he using his riches to do something greater? If not, then it seems pretty greedy for him to sacrifice his morals. It is possible to stock an entirely complete grocery store with nothing but vegan items. I shop there bc it is the closest grocery store and has way more stuff that I need than the alternative, but it does annoy me that a vegan owns it and has no qualms about getting rich off animals.
    Each snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty.

  50. #50

    Default Re: What next for Whole Foods Market?

    Good post RubyDuby.

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