What next for Whole Foods Market?

[Tori]

Thank you RubyDuby. I very much agree with horselesspaul.

[Mahk]

Is he using his riches to do something greater? If not, then it seems pretty greedy for him to sacrifice his morals........... I shop there bc it is ... .

So you're saying as a vegan he is "sacrificing his morals" to work for an company that sells omni products? But as a vegan consumer its OK to buy your vegan products at an omni store? You don't think there's a double standard there?

As for whether or not a vegan supermarket chain could succeed financially, there is no evidence one way or the other, since none have ever existed.

[RubyDuby]

Thanks guys


no, I didnt say

he is "sacrificing his morals" to work for an company that sells omni products

. I work for a company that sells omni products. You're right, thats almost impossible to not. It bothers me that the guy who started it (not just some guy who works there, he started the company) is vegan and is getting so rich off of animals. Why did he need a chain of overly-expensive grocery stores to be "successful"?... and it could be more vegan-friendly at the very least. There really arent very many vegan options there. I mean there are a few more fake meat and dairy options than there are at the regular grocery store, for a price. I had to read almost all of the different kinds of bbq sauce and pasta sauce, chocolate bars, breads/rolls etc before finding 1 that I could buy. They changed their soymilk based smoothies over to frozen yogurt, and there's almost never a vegan option on the hot bar. Well, now there are, after several written complaints... and I'm in L.A.!

[horselesspaul]

Being a vegan and starting and continuing to profit from a company with permits the sale of animal products is not vegan behaviour in my opinion.
He's not a vegan so I'm not fussed what he wants to about his business unless he claimss to be a vegan, about which I shall research further. They should maybe sell human eyes and hearts, lungs, kidneys too..
My local shop Sunny Foods is at least vegetarian and 90 of all the produce is vegan. I am lucky.

[RubyDuby]

http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2...little-mackey/

and an excerpt:

"He's the Bill Gates of organic foods. John Mackey, founder and CEO of the Whole Foods empire, started his original health-food store, called Safer Way, in a garage in Austin, Texas, in 1978. Local farmers would drop off produce from junky old pickups, hippie bakers would supply nut loaves and 20-grain bran muffins. It was strictly vegetarian, just like Mackey himself.

But he soon realized he'd have to change his tune if he wanted to hit the big time, and change it he did. Whole Foods now offers everything from beer and rack of lamb to yoga mats and air-freighted mangoes in the wintertime, at more than 150 stores throughout the U.S. and a handful in Canada and the U.K."

[RubyDuby]

Maybe I'm acting a little spoiled and/or idealistic, but it bothered me that he's vegan. I'm sure WFM beats the hell out of traditional grocery stores. Horseless Pauls Sunny Foods sounds great. I know of 1 vegetarian grocery store near here, about 20 minutes away (WFM is 2 blocks from my apt). They dont have much though and the hours are crappy.

[Mahk]

I work for a company that sells omni products. You're right, thats almost impossible to not. It bothers me that the guy who started it (not just some guy who works there, he started the company) is vegan and is getting so rich off of animals.

I understand you better now, as a vegan, one is allowed to work for an omni company and sell omni products, just don't start the company and don't be too successful.

I put "sacrificing his morals" in quotes because you wrote,

Is he using his riches to do something greater? If not, then it seems pretty greedy for him to sacrifice his morals.

He's one of three original co-founders from 1978. Although vegetarian for decades, he's only been "vegan" since 2003. So he didn't "start the company as a vegan". The company went public many years before that so he's not exactly in a position to change things now. He doesn't "own" the company, any more than any other stock holder does. I understand Tori's objection to "happy meat" propaganda and think its a good point, but on the other hand his work at WFM has established a ban on Foie Gras, crated veal, chicken/duck beak trimming and battery cages, lobster tanks, and other forms of animal abuse. Is this all pointless? I don't know. I see both sides. But if he's ousted, this lone animal advocate WFM has will probably be replaced by a [*sinister music* DUM-DUM-DUM] pro-factory farming business executive from the likes of KFC or McDonald's!

Here's his direct response to why WFM isn't vegan:

"Q. Do you wish that Whole Foods didn't offer meat at all?


A. That's kind of like asking do I wish everybody lived exactly the way I live personally. Do I wish people didn't eat sugar, do I wish people weren't alcoholic, do I wish they didn't smoke cigarettes, do I wish they didn't drink coffee? Do I have some kind of religious faith that I want to convert everybody to or a political ideology that I expect everybody to adhere to? I believe people have got to make these decisions for themselves.


Sure, I wish Whole Foods didn't sell animal products, but the fact of the matter is that the population of vegetarians in America is like 5 percent, and vegans are like 25 or 30 percent of the vegetarians. So if we were to become a vegan store, we'd go out of business, we'd cease to exist. And that wouldn't be good for the animals, for our customers, our employees, our stockholders, or anybody else. If I were to take Whole Foods in this direction I would be removed as CEO. "

[RubyDuby]

I understand you better now, as a vegan, one is allowed to work for an omni company and sell omni products, just don't start the company and don't be too successful.

you're just twisting my words.
just dont start a company based on profiting from the exploitation of animals AND call yourself vegan.

I'm afraid to post on here anymore

It would be nice if it was aimed more at vegans. He apparently has different reasons for his diet than I do, based on the sugar, alcoholic, etc comments. To me, he's more a health nut than a vegan. Maybe he's a vegan as a side-effect. So, I guess I withdraw any problem with his owning a health food store.

[RubyDuby]

"It was strictly vegetarian, just like Mackey himself.
But he soon realized he'd have to change his tune if he wanted to hit the big time, and change it he did."

That kind of thinking bothers me.

[Mahk]

Horselesspaul, He's not a vegan after all! He owns well cared for "pet" chickens, (not raised for their meat) on his ranch and if they lay non-fertile eggs he considers them up for grabs. I believe we have a similar thread here on vf about "what to do with rescue hen eggs?"

Q. When did you decide to become a vegan?


A. I've been a vegan now for a little over a year. And it's not that big of a shift from vegetarianism; I mean, mostly it's giving up dairy products. Technically, I am not a pure vegan because I eat eggs from my own chickens. My wife and I own a place outside of Austin and we have about 30 chickens out there, free-range, organic feed, extremely well-treated from their birth to their eventual death through natural causes. I don't have any problems eating those eggs, but it's the only egg I eat. But otherwise I'm a vegan, including clothing and products as well.

[Mahk]

RubyDuby, I'm sorry. Don't be mad. I just get nasty when I see someone getting attacked as being "immoral" yet they're not here to defend themselves. It's my nature.

As for John Mackey, I don't think he's going to be around at WFM much longer anyway (re. the scandal that Harpy's post links to). I'm worried how animal welfare concerns at WFM will change once he's gone. His current salary is only $1 (I'm not kidding) so I don't think he'll miss the money.. Maybe with all his gazillions he'll finally start a real vegan food store?

[horselesspaul]

Horselesspaul, He's not a vegan after all!

Cheers Mahk, I was just about to go looking for that.
In that case I don't really care what WFM sells on one level.
Unfortunately, using his yardstick for veganism I should have been eating the rabbits my lurcher dog used to bring home to show me..
You have made plenty of valid points but please remember that RubyDuby and I were making one about "owning" a company profiting from non vegan products rather than "using" one to buy vegan produce and I see no moral equivalence there.

Peas,

Paul.

[steven1222]

There is no reason to hold Whole Foods Market to higher standards than any other place. The only fair complaint is that they sell more non-organic foods than some health food stores that may be considered competitors. There are no 'vegetarian' grocery stores, let alone vegan stores, near me.

Arent there plenty of grocery items that are vegan by nature? Produce (fresh, frozen, canned), breads, bulk, sauces, grains, milks, meat and cheese alternatives

Some breads, sauces, and fake cheeses are not vegan.

It is possible to stock an entirely complete grocery store with nothing but vegan items.

Unfortunately, I think Mackey was right to consider that impractical. If Whole Foods Market did that, their meat- and dairy-consuming customers would go elsewhere, and the business would probably go bankrupt. That would mean more customers for an inferior place that should be called Traitor Joe's. (Sorry Mahk, I had to steal that!)

it does annoy me that a vegan owns it and has no qualms about getting rich off animals.

What is annoying is that he was labeled a 'vegan' despite not being one. People who encourage the sale of animal products are not vegans, and he says he eats hen eggs? What confuses me is that he has made no serious attempt to have their vegan store brand products labeled as such, despite supposedly caring about that issue.

[Haniska]

I agree with that one, it is just as hard to find vegan products at Whole Foods as it is anywhere else. Sometimes I read the label (of cosmetics) and still can't tell.

[RubyDuby]

perhaps I was being judgemental, and still am. Probably not the first time, and I could be completely wrong. The phrase "sold his soul to the devil" comes to mind. just kidding, just kidding. The idea is to look at a situation from all angles. I was offering one. Its cool of you to defend his honor, as opposed to arguing for the sake of arguing... but at least defend him against what i am actually saying. It would be naive to think he makes $1 from WFM. I'm sure theres other income besides salary (stocks for example). It sounds like a tax loop hole (just a thought-- I know nothing about a scam)... like when I was 17 and my neighbor gave me a receipt for $1 for buying her car, but she really recieved 1500. Thanks for the apology I guess, but your last sentence proved your true intentions.

It is most likely true, however, that its probably better him than some other suit in the position. Who really knows though.

btw steven-- you seem to have come up with an entirely different idea of what I said than what I meant. Your last paragraph was the only one showing any understanding of my point.

Sorry if this post comes off as confrontational. I'm at my wits end with people right now (real life people-- not so much with the ones who live in my computer)


I wish the whole foods here looked like the one in Mahks posted pics. In the bakery here, there is one vegan cookie offered and its like 1.89 per cookie. zero bagels or scones. The rolls are, but not on purpose. And the only vegan cake has to be special ordered.

Also, its a stretch to say that their comment box is a bulletin board. The reality here: You put your comment in the box and they decide which ones make the board. Our comment requesting A veg*n option on the hot bar was not posted, but there was a comment on the board about how cute the cashiers are...

[Mahk]

He's sooooooooo rich....[*chorus* "How rich is he?"] He's sooooooooo rich he "No longer wants to work for money":
The tremendous success of Whole Foods Market has provided me with far more money than I ever dreamed I'd have and far more than is necessary for either my financial security or personal happiness.... I am now 53 years old and I have reached a place in my life where I no longer want to work for money, but simply for the joy of the work itself and to better answer the call to service that I feel so clearly in my own heart. Beginning on January 1, 2007, my salary will be reduced to $1, and I will no longer take any other cash compensation.... The intention of the board of directors is for Whole Foods Market to donate all of the future stock options I would be eligible to receive to our two company foundations. Source.

I get your point(s). If this John Mackey guy was the sole founder (as opposed to one of three people), was a vegan when he founded the store, and privately owned the store (as opposed to being publicly owned by thousands of stockholders) then I'd be with you 100%, but none of these things are true in this instance.

What combination of things makes a job "not vegan" is not clear to me despite having thought about it for many hours. If one over-analyzes the situation almost every job is "not vegan". I can control what foods I put in my body and what cosmetics and clothes I put on my skin, but when I give labor hours to an omni employer or spend money in an omni establishment (or service), I know that in a certain sense I've contributed, albeit indirectly, to their continuing consumption of animals.

Working in the omni food, clothing, and cosmetics industries makes vegans an easy target since the "evil" products can be more readily seen and touched directly; They're more tangible. I think we should cut vegans in these industries a little more slack and not look down our noses at them.

P.S. Their bakery goods aren't very good, at least 75% are dry and stale, at least that I've tried. Also, good luck with the real life people (as opposed to us people in your computer.) (I live under your hard drive, by the way.)

[frank language]

I shop Whole Foods, they have really good prices on tofu. 99 cent for a water pack! They also have a pretty nice variety of vegan things, especially body stuff.

Trader Joe's has a 99-cent pound of tofu as well.

I never go to WholeMart anymore--and I admit I used to go there a lot. Ever since Trader Joe's opened their Union Square store, I don't find a reason to go to WholeMart--and pay more, most of the time. (Sure, they have loss leaders like the 99-cent tofu, because they're trying to refute Trader Joe's claims that they're unneccesarily expensive.) Ideally, I would shop exclusively at my little independent health-food stores, but they don't have everything. Even the manager of Urban Roots--the closest HFS to where I live--admits to going to WholeMart once in a while, simply because they have buying power like no one else.

[cobweb]

i wish we had Trader Joes or WholeFoods here

[harpy]

If anyone's interested, the Whole Foods Market in Kensington does now have a vegan bakery section - it's on the left as you first go into the ground floor of shop.

We bought a brownie (between us, at those prices!) and I thought it was quite good.

[John]

My main beef with Whole Foods is that they're rabidly anti-union. That's mostly what makes me feel guilty about shopping there.

[Marrers]

Thanks Harpy!

I didn't know that John, I wonder if it is the same here in the UK.

[RubyDuby]

I do believe that they treat their employees relatively well though, at least here. I know several people who work at Whole Foods and they are happy with the company, not necessarily with their job. Also, I've seen many former employees of Ralph's (the grocery store next door, who IS union) are now working at Whole Foods instead... for what that's worth.

[John]

Yes, I wonder what UK labor unions will have to say. Surely they must be stronger there than in the US, no?

But as far as that goes, if I really thought that conditions for the workers were unacceptable I wouldn't shop there.

[bugaboo]

I shop at Whole Foods if I'm looking for an item not found at Safeway. I used to think that WF was more expensive until I became vegan and now I see that the specialty items are much less than the more commercial supermarkets. Unfortunately, I never buy produce from WF because I can not afford 3 dollars per green pepper but it's great for those vegan yum items.

About the whole overtaking the market issue. I can see how a lot of people find it sad but I think it's wonderful...it shows that society (especially American and Canadian) is becoming much more aware of healthy foods and organic groceries as well as certain alternatives to dairy and meat.

If it weren't for Whole Foods I would not be able to buy tempeh or almond milk or etc...in my area at least.

[harpy]

I looked on the USDAW (shop workers' union) web site and couldn't see anything about either Whole Foods Market or the chain they own, Fresh and Wild. The Fresh and Wild shops are rather small though so the question of unionisation may not have arisen in them.

I read an article about the US operation that made them sound kind of paternalistic - the workers they produced for interview said how much they liked working there and IIRC that they didn't want to be in a union Mind you they still don't sound quite in the Walmart class.

[angelamc]

I'm just grateful to have access to Whole Foods, Henry's, Wild Oats, Sprouts, and Trader Joe's! Out of all of them, Trader Joe's is probably my least favorite because they are always out of the items I need and very disorganized. Henry's is the best overall because they are willing to special order items for me and they have the biggest selection of vegan items. But Wild Oats rocks my world at Thanksgiving/Christmas because they carry Celebration Roast- which I love! It kicks tofurky's butt!
I think I'm really fortunate to live in this day and age because it would've been very difficult for me, personally, to be a healthy vegan 1oo yrs ago without all these great stores to shop at! (even if whole foods is owned by a really crummy vegan)

[steven1222]

I read an article about the US operation that made them sound kind of paternalistic - the workers they produced for interview said how much they liked working there and IIRC that they didn't want to be in a union Mind you they still don't sound quite in the Walmart class.

Although most workers do not want to be part of a union, biased interviews can be annoying. I think that Whole Foods Morket has better ethics than most chain-store corporations, so I am willing to tolerate their anti-union opinion.

I'm just grateful to have access to Whole Foods, Henry's, Wild Oats, Sprouts, and Trader Joe's! Out of all of them, Trader Joe's is probably my least favorite because they are always out of the items I need and very disorganized.

I have never heard of Henry's or Sprouts, but do have access to the other three. Trader Joe's is my least favorite because too many of their products may contain traces of cows' milk. They practically steal other companies' recipes, down to the very last nutrition fact.

[angelamc]

I'm pretty sure Henry's and Sprout's and are managed by Wild Oats. You're right about Trader Joe's stealing recipes. They make a cheaper version of Uncle Eddy's Vegan Trail Mix Cookies. It's not as good and it's an incredibly blatant rip-off.

[RubyDuby]

cheaper version you say?

I never go into trader joes. its so small and have barely anything vegan there.
I do mostly shop at wfm bc its 2 blocks away. i prefer going to O'Happy Days a vegetarian store run by a little old man in overalls and a bandana. He's owned the place for 30 years. successfully.

[Haniska]

I shop at Whole Foods if I'm looking for an item not found at Safeway. I used to think that WF was more expensive until I became vegan and now I see that the specialty items are much less than the more commercial supermarkets. Unfortunately, I never buy produce from WF because I can not afford 3 dollars per green pepper but it's great for those vegan yum items. .

Water pack tofu is 99 cents at Whole Foods and like 2.49 everywhere else!

[RubyDuby]

I used to think that WF was more expensive until I became vegan and now I see that the specialty items are much less than the more commercial supermarkets. Unfortunately, I never buy produce from WF because I can not afford 3 dollars per green pepper but it's great for those vegan yum items.

I know what you mean. It's great for tofu, veggie burgers, soy milk, veggie dogs, cheeses, even the bulk section... but not for staples. I checked the price of sugar there once, trying to avoid a trip to a 2nd store. My usual 99 cent lb of sugar was 3.99 at WF!! But they also had 10 alternative sweeteners that were not available at Ralphs. I went to Ralphs for the sugar

[steven1222]

Some people who buy low-quality foodstuffs say Whole Foods Market is so expensive, and I think "they charge 10% less than [insert name of other chain here] for an identical item."

cheaper version you say?

I never go into trader joes. its so small and have barely anything vegan there.

They have a cheaper version of many things, but you get what you pay for.
I agree about the small/hardly any vegan items comment; whenever I go there, I buy the same few things.

[creativegan]

I agree that you get what you pay for. The quality of food at WF is definitely great. I've been to two or three WF in my area and none of them have a vegan bakery - but they do usually label the vegan food pretty well. I have to admit that I shop there pretty often because it's convenient. Their veggie sushi is great too.

[bugaboo]

"Whole"y shit. A new Whole Foods just opened today a few blocks from me. It is crazy. I estimate that there are 500-1,000 parking spaces and the shop is, so far, the largest to open in California. I know that they are getting commercial and getting "corporate" but I really don't mind because most vegan foods that I could only find online, I can now find at Whole Foods.

I think there is a big push for more healthy foods in America because so many people here are getting fat and living with a lesser quality of life than they did about 50 years ago.

I don't like companies "selling out" but I am glad that an alternative grocery store is going commercial. Whole Foods even started an "Animal Compassion" foundation that seeks a better life for animals raised for food. Small step, big message.

[Mahk]

Argh! At WFM today there is a new (to me at least) sign in the produce section which reads:

"Wax and Produce.

Some of our fruits and vegetables are waxed to maintain freshness. These items are coated with food grade petroleum, beeswax, or shellac based wax. None of our produce is coated with any animal-based waxes. Items that have been waxed will be labeled as such with a sticker."

I left a complaint note and will see if it gets posted on their bulletin board. I said that beeswax is made by bees and they are an animal , but come to think of it isn't shellac insect based? Everyone, please check if you have the same sign and leave a complaint if you do. Lucky for me none of the produce I buy has the sticker so I'm safe. What produce tends to get waxed?

[horselesspaul]

Oranges, lemons, limes. Citrus generally and fruit mainly, but almost anything that will show a lustre can be waxed. I have seen waxed courgettes (zucchini) before.
Here The Co-Operative Society uses shellac'ed fruit for its fruit juice...idiots.

[RubyDuby]

Some of our fruits and vegetables are waxed to maintain freshness. These items are coated with food grade petroleum, beeswax, or shellac based wax. None of our produce is coated with any animal-based waxes. Items that have been waxed will be labeled as such with a sticker."

what?? i'm checking next shopping trip.

[Noogle]

Here The Co-Operative Society uses shellac'ed fruit for its fruit juice...idiots.

I've always found that rather odd - I mean, it's not as though you can see the shiny fruit in the juice.

[horselesspaul]

I think they buy old fruit from wholesalers that's unsold even after a shine of beetle has been added for marketing lustre. I can't imagine they'd shellac them on the trees.

[aubergine]

Here The Co-Operative Society uses shellac'ed fruit for its fruit juice...

As does Sainsbury's apparently.

[Hemlock]

"Whole"y shit. A new Whole Foods just opened today a few blocks from me.

In the name of God - that isn't what they called the shop surely???

[frank language]

Firstly, the store is clean, orderly, and the staff is friendly and helpful.

Not unlike Wal*Mart...the first time she went into a Wal*Mart and the greeters set upon her, my 73-year-old mother said to herself, "These people are doing something right!"

I've heard more than one person call Whole Foods "WholeMart," and with good reason: they're union-busters, and the workers are exploited as badly as at any Wal*Mart.

For veg*n shoppers, it's paradise! They have a vegan bakery section (absolutely unheard of, at least here in US stores). A large salad/hot-food bar with ingredients listings clearly marked for each food (also rare) including a selection of different tofus, tempeh, beans, and edamame dishes. They have the largest organic vegetable & fruit section of any store I've ever been to. They exclusively sell "cage-free" eggs (better than nothing, I guess )

Wait a minute; you eat eggs? I'm making a citizen's arrest!

I fortunately haven't set foot in a Whole*Mart in over a year, even though they've opened one in the past few months tantalizingly close to where I live, and I seem to pass it every day. I'm not interested; I'll always shop at the underdog in rather than the behemoth. (A friend did send me an Amazon.com gift certificate for my birthday, though, so I used it. I still haven't gone to Barnes & Noble in several years now.)

[Mahk]

Wait a minute; you eat eggs? I'm making a citizen's arrest!

I'll always shop at the underdog in rather than the behemoth.

HA-HA. Oh no, the vegan police! ...No I don't eat eggs, you silly But I'd rather the eggs my omni friends eat come from chickens that (at least theoretically) can spread their wings, dust bathe , and see the sunlight at least once in their short miserable lives. They're probably de-beaked and the majority of the cockerels are put in a macerator to be turned into feed and fed to their own mothers , but like I said, "better than nothing".

I too would support my local little independent grocery store......if I had one as an option. I have Trader Joe's near me but I'm not sure they're any better in this regard. They also only have a fraction of the food I buy (no seitan, for example) and their produce is often wrapped in plastic, even tomatoes, which I don't like.

[harpy]

If anyone's interested, the Whole Foods Market in Kensington does now have a vegan bakery section.

Scrub that - it seems to have vaporised; must have been a vegan festival special

Actually they might have moved it I suppose, but I was feeling too feeble to ask on this visit.

[Vegan cat]

I went to the Whole Foods Market today, I think it is pretty ok but very expensive!

I did like the massive fruit and veg range including the nuts etc. They did have a fair enough section of vegan items such as cheese, vegan meats , tofu etc.

My main reason for going was to check out the cosmetic/skincare items which I think was very good, they had lots of ranges from Jason Naturals to Green People to Faith in Nature. Again they are quite pricey (some very pricey) but I usually find these cruelty free / vegan cosmetics are as they obviously are not so easily available as other brands Not all are vegan a good range with products stamped with the vegan society logo.

It wasnt packed out and I would probably go back to have a good rummage through.

Came away with some mint tea and green people face cream!

[snivelingchild]

My main beef with Whole Foods is that they're rabidly anti-union. That's mostly what makes me feel guilty about shopping there.

Hmmm, I read that they made the whachamadoogie's (big business people's) top 100 companies because of how well they treat their employees here in the US. Employees even get to vote on what benefits they recieve and have excellent benefits.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/...ole-foods.html

That's why I tried so hard to work there. When they opened up their store in Baton Rouge, the minimum wage was $5.15, and they STARTED the lowest of jobs at $9/hour. I had a friend who worked in the bakery. Maybe there was different pay for part time? I knew a total of 3 people who left the store I worked at to work there. The benefits are way better than an independent store that can't afford to give any benefits, like the place I worked at.

About the owner guy, a company is not owned by one person. Even if there isn't a oard of directors and even if the company isn't public, you have millions of people under you (most of whom aren't vegan) who depend on the company continuing to make as much money as it does so that people don't lose their freakin' jobs. It's a supermarket. I work at a health food section in a supermarket that sells organic meat. Before that I worked in a small health food store that sold organic meat. Before that I worked at a horrid chain restaurant that sold practically nothing but meat, and before that I worked at another independant small health food store that sold organic meat. I'm still vegan. Most people use money to live. You have to provide for everyone.

I don't like (even though I shop there) the whole foods in BR because they used business tactics to drive business away from independant places, but every store and every region of stores are run differently. The one in Oralndo wasn't like that at all, it was perfect. It is under different regional directions. On the subject of independant businesses, though, as much as we like them, small health food stores have horribly expensive prices and usually no benefits for workers. Maybe it's an evolutionary necessity to turn most places of business into chains? Of course independant is almost necessary for specialty items, but for the big things, is this really all that bad? I just lost my job earlier this year from an independant health food store that went out of business. I got paid $5.75/hour to start and nothing else, and I got treated like shit. The business closed because my boss was a bad businessman, even though he blamed it on the not-so-big chain where I now work and get paid way more. He even shops there now.

99% of the management (especially the ones I met with) were evil corporate whores though, because that's what all management is. They don't have special schools for kind or vegetarian business. Most of the people that work there could give a crap about health or animal rights. It's a job.

It is impossible to have 100% vegan supermarkets (not small markets, supermarkets) until there is a wider demographic. You can't expect someone to do the impossible. What if the guy who owned Albertson's all of a sudden went vegan, would you really expect him to sell the business or completely change it?

[fondducoeur]

My best friend works at Whole Foods in Chicago and has nothing but good things to say about how they treat their employees. She just moved up there about a year ago, and was really struggling until she found that job, and a year later she is still doing well.

[Roxy]

Wholefoods has just bought a chain of natural foods grocery stores here in Vancouver. Apparantley it's going to be better for the consumer, as they'll be able to provide a bigger selection of items at better prices. Apparantley Capers will still be operating under that business name, but will now be owned by Wholefoods.

[flying plum]

i went into fresh and wild (UK mini-version of WFM, owned by them) and almost fainted at the prices. I understand places like tescos have their produce so cheap for unethical reasons, but this was seriously crazy! i used to buy my veggies at a stall in balham market, for only a little bit more (and sometimes less) than sainsbury's. it was an organic co-op, and was brilliant. proper you-have-to-wash-the-mud-of-the potatoes type of place. i've just stopped having to work sundays too, so i hope it's still there when i go down next week!

f+w/wfm seemed to cater just to the yummy mummy lavender hill brigade who recycle, then jet off to provence every other weekend...

amanda

[Roxy]

f+w/wfm seemed to cater just to the yummy mummy lavender hill brigade who recycle, then jet off to provence every other weekend...

amanda

LOL!

Whole Foods here definately are SUPER expensive and so are Capers (the company they just bought).

I shop at a locally owned natural foods grocery store (there's about 6 in the chain, throughout the province). Their prices are slightly higher or equal to the regular grocery store, but I feel better about giving my money to a smaller, locally owned, family owned, ethical company than I do the big grocery stores.