Results 1 to 33 of 33

Thread: "Vegan babies are immoral"

  1. #1
    GreenEnvy GreenEnvy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Kent UK
    Posts
    54

    Default "Vegan babies are immoral"

    How do you respond when someone tells you that raising your baby as a vegan is wrong?
    "It's a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done."

  2. #2

    Default Re: Vegan babies are immoral

    Personally, I wouldn't waste my time responding. If you can walk away and tell them you don't want an argument, I think that's the best thing to do. It's obvious that when someone makes a statement such as this they are looking for an argument, so one option is not to give it to them. On the flip side, if you don't mind educating people you can always explain to them why they are wrong. I just get tired of justifying myself because most of the time people don't believe or care about what I have to say.
    And alas I have arrived, like a whirlwind at a kindergarten picnic.

  3. #3
    puffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    1,193

    Default Re: Vegan babies are immoral

    I agree Odinsfury, dont bother wasting your time on stupid people who wont listen anyway. I mean your only not feeding them dairy, eggs and meat, its not a crime. With all this talk about feeding kids crap like McDs etc, i dont think anyone has to right to say someone is wrong to feed there baby breast milk, then fruit, veg, lentils etc

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    .
    Posts
    1,996

    Default Re: Vegan babies are immoral

    I guess it depends who's asking. Ask them why they think it's wrong, then use the info you have to put across your point of view.

  5. #5
    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    3,920

    Default Re: Vegan babies are immoral

    What annoys me are people who say children shouldn't be vegan yet they feed their own kids fast food, sugary snacks, and barely any fresh produce.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  6. #6
    CarrotCruncher applepie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brum
    Posts
    820

    Default Re: Vegan babies are immoral

    Usually people try to tell me that it's not fair not to give children a choice about having animal products or not. Well, it's just the same the other way round, isn't it? Omnis don't give their children the choice of not having animal products. Simple as that.
    First it was necessary to civilize man in relation to man.
    Now it is necessary to civilize man in relation to nature and the animals.
    Victor Hugo

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    .
    Posts
    1,996

    Default Re: Vegan babies are immoral

    Excellent point Tigerlily. I saw a couple with a child in the supermarket the other day; their trolley was laden with meat, cakes, biscuits and convenience foods. Not a piece of fruit or veg in sight.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Vegan babies are immoral

    Quote fiamma View Post
    Excellent point Tigerlily. I saw a couple with a child in the supermarket the other day; their trolley was laden with meat, cakes, biscuits and convenience foods. Not a piece of fruit or veg in sight.
    It's funny how I find myself looking in the shopping carts of other people at the store now.

    Quote applepie View Post
    Usually people try to tell me that it's not fair not to give children a choice about having animal products or not. Well, it's just the same the other way round, isn't it? Omnis don't give their children the choice of not having animal products. Simple as that.
    You're absolutely right about that. It's as if making their kids eat meat from the time they can start eating it isn't a choice, it's just something you do. The moment we deprive our children of animal product we're denying them a choice. It's a good thing I'm not a violent person, people frustrate me deeply sometimes.
    And alas I have arrived, like a whirlwind at a kindergarten picnic.

  9. #9
    Good sperm
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sarf Lahndn
    Posts
    851

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    When I am pregnant/when I'm a mum I'm going to prepare pamphlets with info about vegan nutrition during pregnancy, breastfeeding and childhood and the health benefits of it, compared to omni diet. When they ask me about being vegan I'll hand them one, smile and walk away.

    But then I have a bit of a reputation for being aggressive and wilful (all lies ), so I doubt anyone will dare ask!

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    66

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    I think you should raise your child any way you want. There are many cultures and many religions that impose dietary restrictions on their followers and we do not judge them for what they do or do not eat.

    I think raising your child vegan is infinitely better than raising them on the junk food and snacks that so many parents are feeding their kids on these days.

  11. #11
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    Quote GreenEnvy View Post
    How do you respond when someone tells you that raising your baby as a vegan is wrong?
    I'm a father, and have never heard that question - but I would have looked very surprised and asked why they would think it's wrong.

    Depending on how much time I'd got, I'd possibly also explain why I think it's wrong to raise babies on meat and dairy products...
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  12. #12
    Va'amish Heartsease's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Delete
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    I've never received comments of that sort either. One look at my healthy cheerful toddler would've been enough to silence anyone. Hmm....maybe that's why there were never any comments....they all dried up in a blast of vegan wellness?
    "You can discover more about a person in one hour of play than in a year of conversation" ~ Plato

  13. #13
    driftingAway piggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    301

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    i've had ppl say lost of times to me: "you can't deprive your child of the choice to eat meat, it's not fair", as soon as they got to know i was vegan...and i'm VERY far away from having kids..so go figure. i wonder how their mind work..
    Piggy

  14. #14
    Purple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Guildford
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    A mate of mine from work tried to start an argument about Veganism, and got very angry when he asked whether I'd raise my (theoretical) kids as Vegans, and I said yes.

    I mean really quite uptight He said that it was really unhealthy and that there's things in meat kids *need*. I asked him what it was, and he said he couldn't remember

    I told him to email me it when he finds out...


    ...he still hasn't, that was 3 months ago

  15. #15
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    Maybe he saw this.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  16. #16
    cookey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Bristol uk
    Posts
    346

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    I've never had anyone say this to me, but I think I would find it hard to not put them right if they did. I've had a few people question me about feeding the kids vegan, but as soon as they realise that you know about nutrition, they back down. To me being vegan is part of making the world a better place so if I don't explain myself to people who find it hard to understand, it sort of loses it's point.
    I think the main issue is that people feel children are missing out on treats.
    I'm interested in why you ask the question GreenEnvy?

  17. #17
    BlackDog
    Guest

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    Quote Robert View Post
    I think you should raise your child any way you want.
    Does that include giving a baby a good shake when it cries? Bashing kids when they misbehave? Sending a primary age child to school with only a packet of jelly crystals for lunch (I've seen that)?
    Surely 'society' (all of us collectively) have a say in how children are raised?

  18. #18
    hydrophilic tipsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    938

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    raising a vegan child is no different than raising a child within the guidelines of a particular religion.

    it is simply following your views.

    people who think its immoral are just ignorant to the details of veganism .


    all i will say when people question me about my (future) children being vegan is .... hmmm well at least mine eat (& like) thier vegetables and dont have behavioral issues (ehhh hem).
    the aim of life is to live, and to live means to be aware, joyously, dunkenly, serenely, divinely aware.
    -henry miller

  19. #19
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    it is simply following your views.
    Sure - and check the facts.
    people who think its immoral are just ignorant to the details of veganism .
    They may be ignorant, but IMHO - most of all, they are mis-informed (or not informed at all).
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  20. #20
    BlackDog
    Guest

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    I just realised that, with the addition of one letter, the title of this thread would be 'Vegan babies are immortal'!
    It's amazing what a bottle of Strongbow will do!

  21. #21
    sugarmouse
    Guest

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    What makes them think raising a child to eat animal products isnt? If choice is the basis of their argument, choice means both ways.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    66

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    Quote BlackDog View Post
    Does that include giving a baby a good shake when it cries? Bashing kids when they misbehave? Sending a primary age child to school with only a packet of jelly crystals for lunch (I've seen that)?
    Surely 'society' (all of us collectively) have a say in how children are raised?
    Please read the comment in the context of the discussion at hand.

    As I stated, quite clearly, vegan kids are most likely eating better than other kids who are now being fed a diet of snacks and fried foods (which I see a lot up here).

    The other issues you raise are for a separate thread.

  23. #23
    pat sommer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    hanging around California
    Posts
    723

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    the latest guidelines for babies are nearly vegan anyway..... with breastmilk for at least a full year.

    I have always said that my little one could have whatever she wanted to eat when she was old enough to know where it came from... she's always chosen vegan!

    We don't make kids vegan; we just set them a good example
    the only animal ingredient in my food is cat hair

  24. #24
    hydrophilic tipsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    938

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    exactly... when my (theoretical) kids are old enough to buy thier own food, they may purchase whatever they want, but while im providing for them i refuse to support animal cruelty. plain & simple.
    the aim of life is to live, and to live means to be aware, joyously, dunkenly, serenely, divinely aware.
    -henry miller

  25. #25
    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    3,920

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    Quote pat sommer View Post
    We don't make kids vegan; we just set them a good example
    That's an EXCELLENT way of putting it, Pat. Even though I'm still young and years away of having my own kids, my mom is already bugging me that I shouldn't raise my kids vegan.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  26. #26
    moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    devon, england
    Posts
    100

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    i think the response i would give (and i haven't had the chance to yet) is that a well thought out diet is never immoral. the majority of the time more thought is put into the planning and preparation of vegan meals than is put into omnivorous meals.

    that's not to say that there are not any vegan parents out there who don't know what they're doing and aren't doing anything to change that. but there are many omnivorous ones like that. malnutrition comes in many forms, and fattening your child up on fast food and other quick fixes like fast food should qualify as malnutrition.

    so, anyone who is just letting their child eat whatever the crap is easiest is just as immoral as the so-called vegans who think that by just avoiding the animal products available for consumption without thinking about the nutritive value of the rest of their food.

    and any parent who thinks about and plans and feeds their children a balanced diet in whatever form that comes in is doing a fine job.


    morals are so personal. i think 'immoral' is probably the wrong word. some would say that eating animal products is immoral, and they wouldn't be wrong... for themselves. but a person cannot blanket others with their personal morals. agreed upon cultural morals... that's a bit different.
    hannah, 28 (vegan), bryce, 28 (ovolacto), xylia born january 2005 (vegan)

  27. #27
    cobweb
    Guest

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    Every time I see this thread title I think it says 'vegan babies are immortal'
    Can't add much else except to say that all parents must take some responsibility for what they feed their babies but many don't even think about it, let alone make a conscious choice, and that feels pretty immoral to me .

  28. #28
    vegan pizza! thecatspajamas1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    new jersey, USA
    Posts
    531

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    One time a girl in class said to me "You're going to FORCE your children to be vegan??" I didn't say anything at the time, just bit my tongue. But I imagine how funny it would have been if I said "Are you going to FORCE your children to be hispanic??"

    (nothing against hispanics at all, just showing how dumb her comment is. culture is culture)
    I eat nutritional yeast by the spoonful.

  29. #29
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Are you FORCING your 12 year old to eat an apple instead of smoking a cigarette?

    One time a girl in class said to me "You're going to FORCE your children to be vegan??
    I've also heard that one...

    These people fail to see the potentially other alternatives:

    To force animals to die/suffer in order to satisfy kids' tastebuds.
    To foce parents to act against their own concept of right and wrong, eg. by expecting them to support an industry they want a total boycott of.
    To force parents to support their kids in developing bad (unhealthy, unethical) eating habits they may have difficulties in letting go of when they grow up.
    Helping their kids to follow mainstream viewpoints instead of showing the great alternatives.

    Non-vegans may forget that all parents influence their kids' eating habits in one way or the other. If I child asks for CocaCola for breakfast, and an omni would say that they need to eat some real food instead, would they have taken a similar comment ('Are you FORCING your child to eat breakfast instead of Coke??) seriously? I don't think so...

    People also often forget that the words 'force' and 'freedom' aren't that one-dimensional: one child's freedom will often reduce the freedom of other humans or animals.

    No religion, philosophy or law suggests that freedom to do whatever you want - that hurts others - should be supported.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  30. #30
    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Luton, UK
    Posts
    2,149

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    My sister is the most ignorant person on the face of the planet. I've discussed the issue of raising my theoretical kids vegan and she went ape sh*t! She told me that I was "depriving" them and that they wouldn't grow up to be as healthy etc. Now forgive me if I'm wrong...I was a kid in the late 80's, early 90's as were her children, and all we were fed was sweets, choclate, Enumbers, beef, chicken and pork. Nothing else really and my parents were vegetarian. I have a full mouth of fillings...not one tooth unfilled from the litres of Ribena and packets of fruit pastels. I suffered severe phnemonia and anemia. All because of my diet. Her kids were in and out of hospital their entire lives and still are...yet I am never sick now. My oldest neice (20) has a one year old son...my great nephew. She feeds him like sh*t. Everytime I go over there he is eating choclate or stuffing something nasty in his mouth. The last time I went over he was eating a bowl of meatballs in gravy. My niece said that I used to love meatballs...and I replied that I still did...just the vegan ones. That started off the whole debate again about my theoretical kids and how they will starve. My family are so uneducated and unintelligent at the best of times...why did I expect them to understand? (I'm not the brightest spark myself...so don't think I'm going off on unintelligent people....I'm just well informed )
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  31. #31
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    4,830

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    According to http://www.starvation.net/, every 2.43 seconds someone dies from starvation. According to the same site, "somewhere around 85% of these starvation deaths occur in children 5 years of age or younger." Over 200 million children under the age of five in developing countries are malnourished. According to Dennis Avery, Director of the Centre for Global Food Issues, "The world must create five billions vegans in the next several decades, or triple its total farm output without using more land." (D. T. Avery, 'Intensive Farming and Biotechnology: Saving People and Wildlife in the 21st Century,' The Meat Business, G. Tansey & J. D'Silva (eds) Earthscan Publications, 1999).

    Animals raised for food have to eat up to 16 pounds of grain to create just 1 pound of meat. What can be immoral about feeding one's children with a diet that isn't only the best solution, but also the only solution if we want to address the world hunger problem, instead of giving them a diet that's part of the reason that 850 million people go hungry every day, but which also is bad for their health, for the environment, and definitely bad for the animals?

    The world hunger situation is complex, and has to do with a lot more than just what people eat, but feeding children animal products is totally unethical IMO - and some people have a hard time seeing that the main reason the feed their kids what they do is that their own parents have them the same kind of food. They like the taste of animal products based on habits they got when they were kids. What they 'like' and what they focus on is all about habits, and they probably won't even think about what it means to pass these habits over to the next generation, or that they're an important part of the reason that someone dies from starvation every few seconds.


    From The Vegan Society:
    Feeding the world

    From The Guardian:
    Why vegans were right all along - Famine can only be avoided if the rich give up meat, fish and dairy
    Last edited by Korn; Jun 25th, 2007 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Changed two words. One of them was plain wrong. :)
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  32. #32
    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Luton, UK
    Posts
    2,149

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    I read that article in 2002 when it was published and I wasn't even vegan. They need to do a more up to date one now especially with all this hype about green living at the moment...anyway off topic!
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  33. #33

    Default Re: "Vegan babies are immoral"

    If someone said that to my face, I wouldn't be able to stop from laughing.

    If someone said that online, then I'd most likely ignore it if possible, becuase that's such a load of BS that there's not even a dignified response.

    If that was something I couldn't ignore, then I'd break it down. First, I'd really LISTEN to hear what that person means by "immoral", and really get to the heart of what they say, then fuck their whole world up with a simply placed argument. To do that, you need to really LISTEN to what their concern is, and chances are that it doens't make any sense, yet they base a lot of assumption on it.

    But that last option is a lot of work, so it' rarely worth going there, unless it's a little vindictive
    context is everything

Similar Threads

  1. "Veganic" does not equal "vegan"
    By bQ in forum Projects, companies & links
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Dec 21st, 2011, 09:28 AM
  2. "Vegan babies - a new trend?"
    By Korn in forum Parents and children
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Sep 9th, 2011, 06:49 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Mar 25th, 2011, 10:59 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •