Vegan Omega-3

[Wildflower]

There were signs up in my local Co-op a few years back that Hemp Oil/seeds were being outlawed for sale in this state. things were being discounted due to this.

what crap.

I eat a bread and margarine that both state they have 300mgs per serving of omega 3. Does anyone know if this is a reliable statement? I do not believe that omega 3 content is regulated in the US as the content is listed seperately from the rest of the nutrition information.

Also, how many mgs is good to eat per day?

[DianeVegan]

I am not an expert on Omega-3 Fatty Acids, however, I did attend a conference on this topic in May that was for health care professionals. This is a hot new topic (just as vitamin E and Calcium were in the past) so the jury is still out and studies are still being done. That said, here was the take home message:

- The ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 FAs should optimally be 4:1 or less (this is because the same enzyme is used to break down both to their final products, making them competitive). For most Americans it is 7:1, while for most vegans it is 10:1

- Some people are probably deficient in this enzyme and might need a supplement of the final products (i.e. fish oil capsules or fatty fish in the diet)

- There is evidence that humans may benefit from 200-300 mg of DHA per day (DHA is the end product of omega-3's, found in large concentrations in the brain and retina) As yet, there is no USDA recommended daily intake.

- Since the 1900's industrialized nations have seen a huge increase in omega-6 versus omega-3 due to the oils used in processed foods and the home (ie soy, corn).

- In 2002, DHA supplementation of infant formula began in the US (this is algae-based) and the concentration differs in different brands, as there is no USDA guideline

What to do? We are not really sure, but the thought is that due to our changing world and food supply, we might want to take a supplement. The conference experts touted the benefits of fatty fish and fish oil supplements even though many of the studies were done with DHA supplements (which come from microalgae).

In our house, we take 200 mg of vegan DHA capsules each day, use flax oil for salad dressing, limit our intake of processed and restaurant foods, and use ground flaxseeds on lots of cold foods. My sister took 400 mg per day during her pregnancy and breast feeding (she's not a vegan but she also won't eat the recommended fish due to mercury, dioxin, PCB fears).

Someone may mention hemp, which is actually in the recommended ratio of 4:1, so it's rather neutral considering that it has so much omega-6.

There is a great chapter on this topic in "Becoming Vegan" by nutritionists Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina. Also, you can listen to a talk by Michael Greger, MD here.

I hope this helped. I would not purchase anything just because of it's stated Omega-3 content - manufacturers are jumping all over this "new super oil" for monetary gain, without any scientific backup.

[Wildflower]

Thanks Diane!

I will look into that book. I think I may have gotten it from the library once.

I don't buy my bread/margarine because of the flax seed...it is just on the label and I recently noticed it. Yes, I think people are cashing in on it, they probably always had that in it for what ever reason and this is a great oppertunity to notice it.

[DianeVegan]

Your welcome! I noticed that Bertolli or Ronzoni or some other pasta company now advertises omega-3 pasta. I'm seeing it everywhere since that conference! Anyway, the website for Kreger is great for nutrition as well.

Healthy eating

[Gina]

Hi,

My approach would be to look at why you have arthritis in the first place. It is normally caused by too many inorganic minerals, too much uric acid in the diet or by an overly-acidic body. I believe in tackling the cause instead of suppressing the symptoms.

Warm wishes,
Gina

Dr Gina Shaw
at http://www.vibrancy.homestead.com/pageone.html

[ZZ]

All you hear about today is Omega-3. What they don't tell you is that you should pay attention to Omega-6, or you are wasting your time and money.

Omega-6 comes mainly from oil (sunflower, corn, etc.) and from meat (for those who consume it).

Omega-6 favors the constriction of blood vessels and helps the formation of blood clots. Moreover, they accentuate inflammation. They pretty much do the reverse of the Omega-3.

In summary, it's not just how much Omega-3 you consume that matters, but what is the ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3. A 1 to 1 ratio is usually accepted as very good for most people. Some studies have shown that many people can have a 12 to 1 ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3. That's not good.

[Artichoke47]

I guess we typically don't worry about omega 6 because we know we get plenty of it, hence the incorporating of extra omega 3 (in addition to our regular/low intake) to try to balance it out some.

[ZZ]

Maybe I did not explain myself properly.


On average, people consume way too much omega-6. Omega-6 is bad for you. Paying attention to omega-3 will do you no good if people do not reduce the amount of omega-6 they are consuming. Over consuming omega-3 in order to match the over consumption of omega-6 is nothing less than suicide for the body.

[Artichoke47]

All right, but let's give all known sources of omega 6 then if we want people to reduce them. These are the ones I know of:

sunflower oil
safflower oil
corn oil
grapeseed oil
seeds
walnuts
grains
primrose oil
borage oil




Sources of omega 3:

flaxseed oil (or flaxseeds)
hempseed oil
canola oil
walnuts
butternuts
greens
soy
microalgae

[PumpkinGuy]

For what it's worth, most of what I read has suggested an ideal ratio of Omega 6 to 3 as 4:1

[cedarblue]

Omega-6 is bad for you.
the over consumption of omega-6 is nothing less than suicide for the body.

huh? i thought it was good. ok so its only good when matched with omega-3's right?

[ZZ]

Excessive amounts ( > 3 g/day) of omega-3 will increase the level of bad cholesterol (LDL). In particular in hyper-triglyceridemic people.

Omega-6 is needed by the body, but try to keep total consumption at appropriate level and try to match it with equivalent amount of omega-3.

If you have problems with bad cholesterol and take omega-3 supplements, make sure to mention it to your doctor.

[DianeVegan]

ZZ,

I am not a nutritionist but I am an advance practice nurse who attended a medical conference on Omega 3 Fatty Acids in May (I posted about this conference in another thread and have referred people to different websites and books concerning this topic). I don't know where you are getting your information but I find some of it to be a bit misleading. There are other posts concerning Essential Fatty Acids on this forum. I would suggest that you might view some of them, go to some of the links and perhaps read about essential fattly acids from some of the reliable sources that exist.

[veganblue]

Conference summary posted by Dianecrna.

More on Omega - 3's and flax seed oil thread.

There are interesting and informative posts - worth reading.

[ZZ]

Where I get my information? Among other things, 13 studies, more than 200,000 people and spread over 12 years.

I just did a google search on omega-6 and found the following link (an interesting read, to say the least):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

"Several sources of information suggest that human beings evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA) of approximately 1..."

I stand by my 1 to 1 ratio.

[DianeVegan]

Thanks for posting my links, Veganblue! (I was too lazy to do it myself last nite )

And ZZ, thank you for posting the link for your information. I realize that some researchers believe that people may have evolved on a 1:1 ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 fatty acids. I think that is almost impossible for most people to achieve in this modern world, without eating fish. So many plant sources of omega 3 also have an "unhealthy" ratio of omega 6 naturally built in.

I appreciate that you have looked at 13 studies. The conference that I attended must have mentioned over 200 studies and most of the researchers present were very happy to point out the flaws in the studies. Unless studies can be extrapolated to real life, many don't really matter in my opinion.

Also, the ratio of essential fatty acids won't matter to you if you are one of the people whose body simply doesn't break down Omega 3 to EPA and finally DHA. That is the reason why today's researchers don't pay attention so much to the ratio (impossible to control in most studies unless you were to put people in a locked room and feed them the proper ratio) as to the amount of DHA in a diet. Also, there is money to be made in supplements so there is grant money for these studies.

Now don't get me wrong, I love studies and statistics. You can twist them to fit any theory you wish! The important thing to remember is "What can I do with this information?" And if it isn't simplified then most people won't pay attention. And any nutritional studies that isolate one or two nutrients are worthless, IMO, when you consider that people eat hundreds (if not thousands) of different compounds in foods every day. These studies show correlations not cause and effect.

How can we say that the ratio of essential fatty acids is such a bad culprit when we note that the changes in diet that increased omega 6's also included a change to refined grains and sugar? Or maybe it's the oxidization in ANY oils consumed that is the culprit?

I'm not trying to bash you, ZZ, but I try not to get too worked up over nutritional studies. There will be another one coming soon! I mean, look at the "bad" LDL that you mentioned. Why is LDL bad? Because the plaques that grow in humans coronary arteries have some LDL (maybe) in them? Well, it's not the LDL that caused the plaques. Those plaques also have fibrin and calcium in them. And they don't form in everybody. All people with high LDL's don't get heart disease and some people with low LDL's die of massive heart attacks. The only reason there is even research continuing in LDL's is because of a huge industry that makes money off LDL lowering drugs. And on top of that, the entire cholesterol theory that started us looking at plaques came from animal studies where vegetarian rabbits were fed high fat/cholesterol diets and then formed plaques (which are much different from the ones in humans). These studies continued on other herbivores with the same results. The studies on carnivorous dogs didn't work - they only grew plaques if you removed their thyroids first. And there you have it, a multibillion dollar industry built on a flawed theory that comes from flawed studies.

Wow, thanks for letting me rant (as if you had a choice, right?)

[DianeVegan]

All you hear about today is Omega-3. What they don't tell you is that you should pay attention to Omega-6, or you are wasting your time and money.

Omega-6 comes mainly from oil (sunflower, corn, etc.) and from meat (for those who consume it).

Omega-6 favors the constriction of blood vessels and helps the formation of blood clots. Moreover, they accentuate inflammation. They pretty much do the reverse of the Omega-3.

In summary, it's not just how much Omega-3 you consume that matters, but what is the ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3. A 1 to 1 ratio is usually accepted as very good for most people. Some studies have shown that many people can have a 12 to 1 ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3. That's not good.

By the way, ZZ, I agree with most everything you said in this post!

[ZZ]

http://www.mercola.com/2002/mar/23/omega3.htm

"Generally our diet contains far to much omega 6 fats. Experts looking at the dietary ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids suggest that in early human history the ratio was about 1:1. Currently most Americans eat a dietary ratio that falls between 20:1 and 50:1. The optimal ratio is most likely closer to the original ratio of 1:1. "

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshel...5,1037,00.html

"Interestingly, nutritionists are now finding that omega-6s and omega-3s will only maintain their status as "good" fats when you get relatively balanced amounts of both. Unfortunately, most Western diets today are heavy on omega-6's, often at the expense of omega-3s."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0802123505.htm

"The study points out that 60 years ago in the United States, the dietary ratio of omega-6 to omega-3, a beneficial fatty acid, was 1 to 2. Today, the ratio is 25 to 1. "

http://www.netwellness.org/healthtop...ive/omega3.cfm

"So what are the differences between Omega-3 and Omega-6? In essence, omega-6 is considered "bad" fat, while omega-3 is considered "good" fat....But when omega-6s aren't balanced with sufficient amounts of omega-3s, problems can ensue. Research indicates that high omega-6 fatty acids shift the physiologic state to pro-inflammatory."

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupple...tyAcidscs.html

"For general health, there should be a balance between omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids; the ratio should be in the range of 1:1 to 4:1; the typical North American diet, however, normally provides ratios from 11:1 to 30:1."

[ZZ]

See thread "Misunderstanding the Omega-3" in Health forum.

[Seaside]

I haven't checked yet, but I bet your previous thread was merged into our Flax oil thread. This one might be, too. Try using the "search" button.

[DianeVegan]

ZZ,

Your previous post looks like it was moved to the health section, as I'm sure this one will also be moved from the food section. Nothing was confrontational, so nothing looks to have been deleted.

[Seaside]

Hi ZZ. It was moved into the "Health" subforum.

Incidentally, what always bothers me is the tendency for marketers to try to get people to eat more eggs and drink more milk by putting in Omega-3 oils. Since these foods are not taken raw, it is a waste of money and Omega-3 oil sources to do this, since Omega-3 oils are destroyed by heat.

Oh yeah, and telling people to eat more salmon since it is full of Omega-3 oils. People who eat salmon raw get sick, and cooking the salmon destroys the Omega-3s, so what is the point?

[John]

Incidentally, what always bothers me is the tendency for marketers to try to get people to eat more eggs and drink more milk by putting in Omega-3 oils. Since these foods are not taken raw, it is a waste of money and Omega-3 oil sources to do this, since Omega-3 oils are destroyed by heat.

Good point. I've seen those cartons of eggs that say omega-3 and that never occured to me.

[DonQuinoa]

The more I investigate the more it seems that our modern lifestyles conspire against us to get those vital Essential Fatty Acids from Omega 3. What we really need is DHA and EPA for brain health and a million different functions in the body (well a lot anyway)

It's easier for women admitedly as they seem to get special dispensation for making sure babies' brains and eyes work but even then it's tough and little enough. Flax seed seems unable to cut the mustard - even the Flax Council of Canada admit it's hit and miss getting omega 3 DHA from flaxseed and unlikely.

Blokes seem altogether doomed from the research I've seen.

It seems from the recent press about toxins in fish and scarcity of fish it's not just vegans and vegetarians that have to worry.

The Vegan Society has long preached about going to the bottom of the food chain "first hand - first rate" and some clever cookies have done just that.

Algae oil from the world's oldest food source - microalgae, sustainable, toxin free, organic, raw, vegetarian , vegan in a potato starch capsule. Rich in omega 3 DHA and EPA - a world first.

See www.vegetarian-dha-epa.co.uk or www.water4.net for more info.

[dharma]

I was very interested in this, until I saw the price:

"ALGAE-PURE is available in packs of 60 veggie caps (2-a-day) at £18.95 + P&P. 100mg EPA. 362mg DHA."

Nearly £19 per month plus postage is way beyond my meager budget. Hopefully as demand increases the price will decrease and I'll be able to afford them, but not just yet I'm afraid

[DonQuinoa]

Economies of scale i guess will make the price come down - Udos oil is about £15 a bottle and you have to do all the work yourself.

Keep taking the hemp oil and flax and do all the things it advises on www.vegetarian-dha-epa.co.uk to maximise your chances of conversion to EPA and DHA

The good news is that research from EPIC study shows although barely adequate your body should be able to maintain emergency rations if your diet is much better than average (no linda mccartney sausages or swedish soft Ice cream) or stress in your life.

[dharma]

(no linda mccartney sausages or swedish soft Ice cream)

Life without Linda's sausages and Swedish Glace? No chance. How about fortifying them with Algae-Pure

[VeganClaire]

I get my childrens supplements from here.

http://www.biocare.co.uk/range.html

[DonQuinoa]

A tough one I know ID

Hydrogenated fat and altzhiemers?

or

Essential Fat and grandchildren

Make your own ice cream with soya custard, bananas, chocolate, dates and lots of hemp / flax oil

That way the oil stays fresh and tastes great.

[dharma]

A tough one I know ID

Hydrogenated fat and altzhiemers?

or

Essential Fat and grandchildren

I only eat a couple of Linda's sausages once every few weeks, so I don't think I'll be going the way of Mike Baldwin just yet. I'm old enough to have grandchildren, but I hope my children don't supply me with them too soon!

I've never made icecream, but that recipe looks good and very easy to do. When you say soya custard do you mean something like Alpro or is it to be made from scratch?

[DonQuinoa]

Yeah Alpro would do fine

It's nearly always better to make stuff yourself from a nutritional perspective.

You could use a richer soy milk (bonsoy?) and sweeten with Xylitol (low GI sugar from birch trees)

You may be able to buy the Vegan Omega 3 DHA EPA algae oil direct in the bottle rather than in capsules. That may be cheaper and perfect for a Vegan omega 3 nutritious Ice Cream

If not use hemp oil and high lignan flax oil (barleans) until the price comes down of algal oil.

A Linda McCartney sausage once a fortnight shouldn't turn you into Mike Baldwin (or my mum) just yet. It depends how many bourbon biscuits you eat too I guess and how many drinks in the Rovers Return.

Enjoy

Flax Conversion rates - www.foodsforlife.org.uk/nutrition/conversion-LNA-DHA-EPA.html

[dharma]

Interesting link, thanks. I have a vegan friend who suffers very badly from hay fever, I'll pass on the info to her. Sorry to hear about your mum

I rarely eat biscuits now, I sometimes buy a small packet of Dove Farm digestives but I have them for so long that they usually go soggy before the packet's finished. A pint of Newton and Ridley's has never passed my lips

[Korn]

More info on Omega-3 fatty acids and antioxidants in edible wild plants here...

More info on Omega-3 in Purslane (Portulaca oleracea) here...

This site also contains some info on Omega-3 fatty acids in wild plants, nuts and seeds.

[veggiewoman]

I have recently joined a forum board for childcareres and mums to swap ideas, hence all my other threads here about soya and milk etc etc .
It still amases me these days how many parents believe their children NEED dairy products otherwise their bones will fall apart etc.
Anyway back to omega 3 , they are all talking about omega 3 in fish oil and I want to show them better ways of giving their children omega 3 without the killing of fish for it.
What food stuff or even drinks ,if any, can I recommend? Thanks for reading this far and for any help , cheers.

[Haniska]

I'm confused about the heating of Omega3's. I have read that the oil in eggs is protected by the other elements in the egg. This makes sense to me and I assume it is the same for salmon, probably if the oil was extracted it would be bad to heat it also. I can imagine it would be the the difference between putting vitamin c powder in the skillet or "frying" an apple. Anyway, I don't know for sure. Does anyone know if there is a problem with cooking greens? I get most of my omega 3's from greens and am curious if cooking destroys it.

[Korn]

More links/opinions about non-animal Omega-3 sources:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/healt...AcidALAcs.html :

Dietary sources of ALA include flaxseeds, flaxseed oil, canola (rapeseed) oil, soybeans and soybean oil, pumpkin seeds and pumpkin seed oil, purslane, perilla seed oil, walnuts and walnut oil

http://healthfullife.umdnj.edu/lists_tables/table02.htm
(This doesn't look like a reliable source, but all comments are welcome)

Plant and Plant Oil Sourcesof Omega-3 Fatty Acids

Flaxseed and Flax Oil are, by far, the best source

Canola oil

Butternuts (dried)

English walnuts

Soybeans (raw), soybean oil

Leeks

Wheat germ

Purslane

Almonds

Pinto beans

Barley bran

Kale

Chickpeas

Avocados

Strawberries

Peanuts

Hmm... How can peanuts be a good Omega-3 source, there are only trace amounts of Omega-3 in them, and the Omega-6/Omega-3 ratio isn't good.


http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/library/fntr2/mf2519.pdf :

FOODS HIGH IN OMEGA-3
Grain:
Flaxseed
Oat germ
Wheat germ
Some Cereals
Nuts:
Walnuts
Butternuts
Brazil nuts
Pine nuts

Oil:
Canola

Vegetables:
Purslane
Leeks
Spinach
Cauliflower
Broccoli
Leafy greens

http://www.philippinenews.com/news/v...16bac410275e21 :

Walnuts, butternuts, canola oil and especially flaxseeds and flaxseed oil, which contain a lot of omega-3 in the form of alpha-linolenic acid (LNA), which our body converts to EPA and DHA. Purslane, a low-growing plant, has been found to have the highest level of omega-3, vitamins C and E among green leafy vegetables.

http://www.newindpress.com/sunday/su...Living&rLink=0 :

Green leafy vegetables are also excellent sources of Omega-3 fatty acids. And methi leaves — a member of the Fab Four along with arbi, agathi and drumstick leaves — is one of the best sources!

http://www.vepachedu.org/TSJ/August2003.html :

Don't worry, omega-3 fatty acids*occur naturally in flaxseed, canola oil, nuts, avocados,*wild rice, kidney beans, melon, spinach, cauliflower, broccoli, Boston lettuce, [...] cherries, grape leaves and*black gram...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062200610.html :

Seattle, Wash.: Are there good vegetable sources for Omega-3 fatty acids? I have been an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 12 years, hence I have not eaten fish for 12 years. I think I am healthy, but there seems to be a lot of stress put on eating Omega-3 now. How important is it?

Sally Squires: Yes indeed, Seattle, there are plenty of good sources. In fact, I wrote a story about this very thing with a pretty extensive list. We'll post momentarily. By the way, mungo beans--lentil-like beans found in many Indian groceries are one food that is quite high in omega-3's and also has a good omega 3/omega 6 percentage. Cantaloupe was also a pretty good choice.

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/e...tty_acids.html :
(This is a reliable spooruce)

Plant Foods Rich in Omega-3 Fatty Acids

Ground flaxseed (flax meal)
Walnuts
Soybeans
Mungo Beans*
* Mungo beans are particularly high in omega-3 fatty acids. They are sold in many Indian groceries and may be found under the name "urid."

Omega-3 Fatty Acids

It is important for vegetarians to include foods that are rich in omega-3 fatty acids on a daily basis. Alpha-linolenic acid, a common omega-3 fatty acid, is found in many vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds, and fruits. The best source of alpha-linolenic acid is flaxseeds or flaxseed oil. For those who are seeking to increase their intake of omega-3 fats, more concentrated sources can be found in oils such as canola (also known as rapeseed), soybean, walnut, and wheat germ. Omega-3 fatty acids can be found in smaller quantities in nuts, seeds, and soy products, as well as beans, vegetables, and whole grains. Corn, safflower, sunflower, and cottonseed oils are generally low in omega-3s.

Omega-3 Content of Natural Oils5,6

Flaxseed 53-62%
Linseed 53%
Canola 11%
Walnut 10%
Wheat germ 7%
Soybean 7%

http://forumhub.com/southfood/10707.10.53.50.html :

URAD/URID DHAL/MUNGO BEANS IS GOOD SOURCE OF OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...dspice&dbid=32

In terms of traditional nutrients, strawberries emerged from our food ranking system as an excellent source of vitamin C, vitamin K and manganese. They also qualified as a very good source of dietary fiber and iodine as well as a good source of potassium, folate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin B6, magnesium, and copper.

There's a table here:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...dspice&dbid=32 :

There's also a table here, listing ground cloves, cauliflower, mustard seeds and cabbage (shredded, boiled) as very good Omega-3 sources. Many other plants are listed as 'good', and flax seeds/walnuts are listed as 'excellent':
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=84

[Haniska]

http://www.mypyramidtracker.gov

Measures intake of Omega 3 and Omega 6 from your food intake.

VONDERBULL!

[Crespo]

Does DHA from algae have the same positive effects on skin as flax seed oil?

[Imapeach]

Hey sorry for the tricky question guys:

Does anyone know if it damages the Omega acids in Walnuts if they are heated? I know you're supposed to keep flax cool, so is it the same for other sources of Omega acids, like walnuts? I'm thinking of making muffins, but will use a cheaper nut if it's just going to wreck the Omega balance in the Walnuts.

[DonQuinoa]

Dear Korn

I still think you are not making it clear enough that Omega 3 ALA or LNA alpha linolenic acid from the sources you quote does not necessarily equal Omega 3 DHA or even the easier to make EPA.

They are all seperate fatty acids under the umbrella of the omega 3 family.

Even the flax seed council of Canada admits the modern body's capacity to produce enough DHA for our needs is unproven.

I think it is irresponsible to mislead people into a false security that if they eat flax or hemp or anything else on your list (even purslane) that they are guaranteed to have enough DHA and EPA to avoid modern plagues such as Altzhiemers and diseases that attack cell membranes. DHA and EPA are especially vital before conception, during pregnancy and during breast feeding.

And as the Peach clearly demonstrates you also fail to highlight the delicate nature of plant based omega 3 oils - if they are not kept cool and away from light and oxygen they can do you more harm than good - flax is still considered a poisonous food in some parts.

Both Yvonne Bishop-Weston and Versanto Melina, both accomplished vegetarian nutritionists, were found to have low levels of DHA and EPA despite a far healthier than average EFA intake.

EPIC study of thousands of healthier than average health conscious self selected volunteers found vegetarians and vegans to have lower than average levels of DHA and EPA.

Unless one is prepared to avoid all manufactured and processed foods and drinks, and eat only living foods with abundant sprouted grains and seeds rich in enzymes , tempeh, fresh assorted unpolluted seaweeds ,drink algae rich water and avoid all stress and emotional upheaval in their lives I and the nutritionists I've spoken to think it's a gamble to not take an Algae based DHA & EPA supplement.

For those of us normal people who like the odd pint of beer, chocolate cake and ice cream, Redwoods Sausages and vegan pizzas your advice above is like playing Russian Roulette with their old age.

[cedarblue]

i dont know for certain but to me any cooking depletes mineral/vit etc sources to some extent. better to eat raw and as fresh as possible ie, out of the shell rather than packaged if you can.

[veganblue]

The following is from a study that I participated in earlier this year. They sent out the results today.


Table 1: Fatty Acid Results of Vegans, combined (mean) and variation (SD) (n=20) compared with healthy meat-eating individuals from Melbourne (Omnivores) and UK Vegans from the paper Rosell et al.


The average time for being vegetarian is 31.65 years.
The average time for being vegan is 15.15 years.

Longest term vegan in this study is 61 years.

n-6 is omega-6's
n-3 is omega-3's

The results of the vegans in the EPIC study were vastly different to the Australian vegans in many respects and not in a good way.

I was worried that my results (last column) would show high trans fats but I am relieved that they are below the average for omnivores and vegans. I am a little worried about the high omega-6 to omega-3 ratio but will keep an eye on it.

[fiamma]

If it counts for anything I have started taking Omega 3 supplements (Vegan Society) and can feel the positive effects in terms of feeling much less depressed.

[marika5]

I am a little worried about the high omega-6 to omega-3 ratio but will keep an eye on it.

What is your diet like? Have you been taking 1-2 tbsp of ground flax every day? Are you deliberately limiting omega6 fats? How many servings of uncooked leafy greens do you have per day? How many servings of fruits and vegetables per day?

It seems to me from these results that the UK vegans are vegans for ethical reasons and not health; they are probably eating junky diets. Might it be that fruits and vegetables are much more expensive there? I am not sure. I complain about the costs where I live but they are still pretty affordable at certain shops.

I think the vegan authorities must start screaming from the rooftops about emphasizing f+v and deemphasizing grains (bad omega6-3 ratio) and grain oils. The PCRM is still saying 4432 but maybe it ought to be 10+ veg 4+ fruit 2 tbsp flax first, then fill out calorie needs with whole grains and legumes.

[Tigerlily]

Bah, I'm evil. I hardly ever seem to eat omega 3-rich foods.

[fiamma]

How many servings of uncooked leafy greens do you have per day?

Why should they be uncooked? I've never heard such a recommendation. I can imagine eating some leafy greens raw, such as baby spinanch, but chard, for example? Sounds incredibly unappetising. They shouldn't be overcooked, I know, but raw?

[fiamma]

Both Yvonne Bishop-Weston and Versanto Melina, both accomplished vegetarian nutritionists, were found to have low levels of DHA and EPA despite a far healthier than average EFA intake.

Where did you find this info - do you have a source to back it up?

[cedarblue]

Why should they be uncooked? I've never heard such a recommendation. I can imagine eating some leafy greens raw, such as baby spinanch, but chard, for example? Sounds incredibly unappetising. They shouldn't be overcooked, I know, but raw?

you can use other greens in a green smoothie or use large leaves of chard or kale as a sub-roll with a filling in. dynamic green energy - watch out for the rush though.

if they are too tough completely raw if they are steamed even for a couple of minutes, this takes the edge off them.

[veganblue]

What is your diet like? Have you been taking 1-2 tbsp of ground flax every day? Are you deliberately limiting omega6 fats? How many servings of uncooked leafy greens do you have per day? How many servings of fruits and vegetables per day?

I tend to be a cooked food person in winter - and having just looked it up - the oils that I use - olive, corn and rice brain oils - are all high in N-6 and low in n-3 so that will have a bit to do with it.

I don't believe in the use of eating uncrushed flax seeds and the crushed ones are as likely to oxidise as the oil so I use the oil sometimes but have not of late.

I really enjoy a meal that is largely silver beet several times a week from the garden - but again - this is cooked - not so nice raw.

I have a carb rich diet with large selections of vegetables but again, most of it is cooked lightly in the current cold weather. Fruit is limited to apples, citrus, and dried fruit like pineapple, dates, sulatanas, etc.

I also eat quite a few pumpkin seeds - the other high source of n-3.

I could do better but then - we probably all could. BTW I have a BMI of between 17 and 18.

[marika5]

Why should they be uncooked? I've never heard such a recommendation. I can imagine eating some leafy greens raw, such as baby spinanch, but chard, for example? Sounds incredibly unappetising. They shouldn't be overcooked, I know, but raw?

You can be exposed to mutagenic peroxidation products on cooking the delicate triglycerides with their double bonds . It would be less of a problem with very light steaming compared to long-term exposure to high temperatures of course. But with raw leaves you probably get more unmolested ALA, not to mention more cancer protection (see free PMID: 15342442 and free PMID: 15066921) and more vitamins. Lettuce is wonderful raw. I like my broccoli stalks raw, but shredded. I also eat my spinach, chard, and beet greens raw. They are easier to eat when the leaves are babies and when shredded.

and having just looked it up - the oils that I use - olive, corn and rice brain oils - are all high in N-6 and low in n-3 so that will have a bit to do with it.

I suspected from your results that this might be the case. I would be surprised if you had been going out of your way to maintain an O6:O3 ratio of less than 4:1 and still got the same results.

I don't believe in the use of eating uncrushed flax seeds and the crushed ones are as likely to oxidise as the oil so I use the oil sometimes but have not of late.

I do my grinding immediately before eating with a coffee grinder. I can't say for certain it is better this way and I am not certain that they have been compared adequately (light steaming vs grinding immediately before consuming) but I like getting the fiber, the protein, and the lignans from the seeds as opposed to consuming the oil. The seeds are very cheap ($1.29USD/lb) compared to the oil ($8-$12USD/lb). I do 2 tbsp per day which I think is a reasonable intake bounded by cyanogenic glycoside content.

I also do walnuts freshly shelled and one brazil nut when they are in season. My other concentrated fat sources are olive oil mainly and the occasional avocado. I don't use the other seed or nut oils. I usually aim for an O6:O3 ratio of about 2 and I think I do hit it most days, not only because of the flax and walnuts but also because of lots of leaves, fruity vegetables, and sweet fruit.

I found this, which is reassuring, but it is only a secondary source. I would like to read the referenced papers to see the actual numbers for losses.
http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/english/pdf/stor.pdf