Vegan Omega-3

[chico]

Sandra, you're out on a mad one

I did reply to all of your questions. You didn't reply to mine though. I don't think vegans that eat this DHA supplement will live for ever (I'm not crazy). So you were actually serious?? Hey this is just completely useless talk though, what about we get back to the topic?

[sandra]

I agree with you Pilaf..............omega 3 is necessary in a healthy diet............my point is omega 3 is found in other sources other than algae.

The point I was making about people living until they were 120 was..........if this algae omega 3 is so wonderful (compared to other sources) then we as vegans would be so healthy we would have nothing to die of. We won't die of cancer, heart disease or strokes.
This has nothing to do with scientists being able to find the answers to the ageing process.

Now, if taking this algae stuff was the answer to the ageing process too, then it would be worth considering. Even if it would cost me around £78 a month for a family of four to buy the supplements.

[chico]

Sandra, you really don't get it? We're not talking about ALL omega 3, we're talking about DHA... get it? YES there is ALA in food sources other than algae, NO there isn't DHA in food sources other than algae (at least there aren't any known sources - correct me if I'm wrong).

[sandra]

Sandra, you're out on a mad one

I did reply to all of your questions. You didn't reply to mine though. I don't think vegans that eat this DHA supplement will live for ever (I'm not crazy). So you were actually serious?? Hey this is just completely useless talk though, what about we get back to the topic?

I think what is happening here Chico, is we are both not understanding each other enough. I'm not disputing what you are saying, I'm just stating my thoughts on this. If it is proven that by not only eating a healthy vegan diet but also taking algae supplements we will live 20 or 30 (healthy, active) years longer then I would be willing to consider taking the supplement...........even though it would cost a considerable amount each month.............until that time I am happy to continue with the ordinary dietary sources of omega 3, DHA, EPA, or whatever other 'A' there is!

[chico]

No Sandra I'm really sorry... it's you that isn't understanding... but I've explained to the best of my knowledge this a couple of times to you already... do you have any ordinary dietary sources of DHA and EPA that aren't from algae?? If so I'm really curious to find out what you're talking about.

[sandra]

Dietary sources of alpha-linolenic acid include flaxseeds, walnuts, hemp seeds, soybeans and some dark green leafy vegetables. Linoleic acid is found in high concentrations in corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, and canola oil. Most people consume a much higher amount of linoleic acid than alpha-linolenic acid, which has important health consequences. For more information on the proper ratio of these fatty acids in the diet, see our FAQ entitled, A New Way of Looking at Proteins, Fats, and Carbohydrates The body converts alpha-linolenic acid into two important omega 3 fats, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexanoic acid (DHA).

From what I can make out the body 'converts' alpha-linolenic acid into EPA and DHA...........and as stated above alpha-linolenic acid is to be found from many dietary sources.
Perhaps the marine sources are more readily utilized by the body, needing less 'conversion' but it doesn't prove they are significantly superior.

[chico]

Sandra, you don't get it.... please do some background reading and PLEASE read my previous posts on this thread. You're saying stuff we all know already, still you don't understand.

[sandra]

But you aren't getting it either Chico...........you said there are NO other food sources with DHA but there are, as I previously quoted. The body converts alpha-linolenic acid into EPA and DHA.

To remind you I shall quote you: quote: 'NO there isn't DHA in food sources other than algae (at least there aren't any known sources - correct me if I'm wrong).'

To clarify, there might not actually be DHA in other sources of food but it doesn't matter as the body converts alpha-linolenic acid into DHA anyway.

[chico]

I hear you loud and clear. You're playing with words: conversion of DHA from ALA in the body is not a dietary source of DHA, it's a dietary source of ALA. Take another example: there are no vegan dietary sources of taurine occurring in plants. It's your body that recombines amino-acids to make whatever it needs to do with them. Get it?

Did you read the previous quote from the Vegan Society? post #182
http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...&postcount=182

The Vegan Society has stated this for as long as I can remember:

"Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), two non-essential PUFAs, do not generally occur in vegan diets. The human body can convert alpha-linolenic acid into EPA and DHA but, even so some of the body tissues of vegans contain less DHA and EPA than those of other dietary groups. The consequences of this difference, if any, are not known."

Did you check out post #194 too?
http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...&postcount=194

The point I was making was ALL omega 3 serves the same purpose at the end of the day.......whether marine sourced or not!

No it doesn't! Do you have any proof of this? Please prove to me that ALA is perfectly converted to DHA and EPA in all humans. Assuming that most vegans have extremely high intakes of omega 6 PUFAs this will further inhibit the absorption of ALA, let alone its conversion to DHA and EPA! This is a serious issue.

Omega 3 is important in everyone's diet but it exists in food other than algae.

ALA exist, not DHA or EPA!! And even there's not a lot of vegan sources of ALA and not a lot of vegan sources of ALA that have the right balance between ALA and omega 6!

Regards,

Chico

[sandra]

Chico now you've brought ALA into it, you were on about DHA before!

I'm leaving this thread now as you come across as very aggressive and unwilling to partake in discussion.

You also haven't answered my private message I sent earlier.............it would only be polite to do so. :smile:

[chico]

Hey Sandra leave private conversations out of this, I took ages to elaborate a reply to your pm that's why you didn't receive it straight away... give me a break!

I don't want to partake in discussion? Is there a discussion? If you would kindly reply to all the questions I've asked you I'll be happy to go on from there. Otherwise don't insult my good will. I've mentioned ALA quite a couple of times before. I can count 9 times on this page alone, prior to the quote which is a repost. You said you read it all but I do wonder if you pay any attention?

[Korn]

This seems to be going in a loop. I'm giving this thread a little break (I'll reopen it later). If someone wants to discuss this statement: "there might not actually be DHA in other sources of food but it doesn't matter as the body converts alpha-linolenic acid into DHA anyway" further, please do it in the DHA/EPA thread! Thanks!

[Korn]

Here's a new study discussing the antiangiogenic effect of Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids, and that ω-3 may be used as an alternative or supplement to current anti-vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) treatment for proliferative retinopathy.

A similar study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17589522

[Korn]

I'm sure Omega-3 (from plants) is a good thing, but here's yet another new finding that adds some confusion to the topic:
Medicalnewstoday.com: Omega-3s Linked To Higher Risk Of Aggressive Prostate Cancer

Dr. Barnard's blog: Omega-3 Fatty Acids Linked to Prostate Cancer Risk

Oxfordjournals: Serum Phospholipid Fatty Acids and Prostate Cancer Risk: Results From the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial

[Korn]

A new study, published in European Journal of Clinical Nutrition shows that blueberries, cloudberries and mountain cranberries has Omega-3 levels equivalent to salmon, catfish and cod. The study was presented on the front page of Dagbladet, a Norwegian newspaper/magazine today. The Omega-3 levels were not measured pr. gram, but relative to energy, and Erling Bere, a post doctor at the Department for Nutrition at the University of Oslo, says (not surprisingly) that wild berries are superior to those one can buy in the stores. He emphasizes the importance of measuring the levels relative to energy and not in weight.

And here's a link to the PubMed abstract:
Wild berries: a good source of omega-3. (2007)

It has been reported that some wild green vegetables are good sources of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA, an essential omega-3 fatty acid). Using available data from the Norwegian food composition table, the present study shows that three common Nordic berries (blueberry, cloudberry and cowberry) on average contain 0.7 g of fat (=21% of total energy) and 0.25 g ALA (=36% of total fat) per 100 g, which is quite similar to what has been reported for the ALA-rich wild green vegetables. In addition, this study shows that a hypothetical replacement of 5% of Norwegian 8th grade girls' diet, with a similar energy amount of wild berries, would significantly improve the diet - also improve intake of nutrients not commonly associated with berries.

PMID: 16900081

[Korn]

More about Omega-3 from chia seeds:
OMEGA-3 CHIA SEED EXTRACT
Chia Seed - The Ancient Food of the Future:

Another unique quality if the Chia seed is its high oil content, and the richest vegetables source for the essential omega-3 fatty acid. It has approximately three to ten times the oil concentrations of most grains and one and a half to two times the protein concentrations of other grains. These oils, unsaturated fatty acids, are the essential oils your body needs to help emulsify and absorb the fat soluble vitamins, A, D, E, & K. Chia seeds are rich in the unsaturated fatty acid, linoleic, which the body cannot manufacture. When there are rich amounts of linoleic acid sufficiently supplied to the body trough diet, linoleic and arachidonic acids can be synthesized from linoleic acid.

Chia Seeds:

Chia seeds contain 32 to 39 percent oil, and this oil has the highest natural percentage of alpha-linolenic acid or omega 3 – up to 64 percent. The oil also contains omega 6 essential fatty acids, and has an omega 3 to omega 6 ratio of 3:2. Chia seeds are also rich in long-chain triglycerides which help to maintain the proper wall flexibility of the cells and also restore the correct cholesterol to triglycerides ratio. The omega 3 found in chia seeds is converted by the body into DHA and EPA fatty acids – the same kinds that are found in fish oil.

[Korn]

About Omega-3 from camelina oil:
Camelina oil - A good source of OMEGA 3:

Unlike the saturated fats found in butter and lard, omega 3 fatty acids are polyunsaturated. The three most nutritionally important omega 3 fatty acids are alpha-linolenic acid, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).

Traditionally Fish oil and Flax oil have been looked at major source for Omega 3 however with increasing demand for vegetarian food and very low srtability of Flax oil proposes us to look for other sources. Camelina oil being 100% Vegeterian and stable source is thus the most favoured upcoming source for OMEGA 3

Rrevival of interest in camelina oil is due to its high linolenic acid (38%) content. Linolenic acid is one of the OMEGA-3 fatty acids which are generally found in substantial commercial quantities only in linseed (flax) and fish oils.

Camelina offers an opportunity to supply the growing demand for high quality edible oils rich in OMEGA-3 fatty acids. The oil contains 35 to 40% linolenic acid compared to 8% in Canola and 1% or less in soy bean and corn oils.

Camelina oil does not deteriorate during refining or storage like linseed (flax) oil or fish oil and can be used in a number of oil based products such as spreads and salad dressings. Camelina oil, unlike linseed and fish oil, is oxidatively stable and palatable

OMEGA 3 – MINUS THE FISHY ODOUR

Good news for those who hate cod but do not want to be denied by the heart healthy benefits offered by omega 3 from Fish oil. A plant OMEGA 3 called Alphalinolenic Acid (ALA) may be as potent as the fish type. ALA intake cuts the risk of suddern cardiac death almost in half, revealed in 16 year Harvard study of 77000 women.

Wikipedia on Camelina sativa:

The crop is now being researched due to its exceptionally high levels (up to 45%) of omega-3 fatty acids, which is uncommon in vegetable sources. Over 50% of the fatty acids in cold pressed Camelina oil are polyunsaturated. The major components are alpha-linolenic acid - C18:3 (omega-3-fatty acid, approx 35-45%) and linoleic acid - C18:2 (omega-6 fatty acid, approx 15-20%). The oil is also very rich in natural antioxidants, such as tocopherols, making this highly stable oil very resistant to oxidation and rancidity. It has 1 - 3% erucic acid. The vitamin E content of camelina oil is approximately 110 mg/100g. It is well suited for use as a cooking oil. It has an almond-like flavor and aroma. It may become more commonly known and become an important food oil for the future.

Montana State University on cold-refined Omega-3 camelina oil:
Cold-Refined Omega-3 Camelina Oil and Improvement of the Nutritional Value of Baked Products and Spreads (peanut butter)
Cold-refined Omega-3 camelina Oil

Cold-Refined Omega-3 Camelina Oil and Improvement of the Nutritional Value of Baked Products and Spreads (peanut butter)

Cold-refined Omega-3 camelina Oil
The omega-3 content of camelina oil can be enriched by cold refinement. At cold temperature (-10C), Omega-3 containing triglycerides are more fluid than triglycerides composed of omega-9 and omega-6 fatty acids. Subsequently, at cold temperature, the omega-3 oil is concentrated in the upper fraction and omega-6 and omega-9 oil are concentrated in lower fractions.
Camelina peanut butter and bread

The high omega-3 oil obtained directly from camelina sativa or enriched omega-3 oil can be added directly to a wide variety of food products, significantly increasing their nutritional quality, and thereby significantly increasing the market value of these products. High omega-3 peanut butter can be made from natural peanut butter. Natural peanut butter separates into oil and thick peanut paste. Peanut oil contains high levels of omega-6 fatty acid. This undesirable oil can be poured off and replaced 1:1 with camelina oil. The sensory quality and shelf life of the camelina peanut butter are unaltered.
Camelina oil can also be used in a wide variety of baked products. The food development group is working directly with Wheat Montana to develop omega-3 bread and cereal products (fig. 19).

[twinkle]

Ooh, that sounds good! I've been using hempseed oil, but I have to add it to food before I eat it as I don't like the taste of it when it's used for cooking. If I could have an omega 3-rich oil with an almondy flavour that was good for cooking with I'd be super happy! I wonder when it will become commercially available over here?

[buttons]

Hope I don't give anyone a "groundhog day"-esque feeling, but I was just wondering if my 2 tablespoons (actual spoons, not measuring spoons) of this* properly refrigerated flaxseed oil was enough Omega 3? I've read different estimates in different corners of the vego web. I usually take it at night with a glass of soy milk and my medication.

*Just in case the "type"/colour of flaxseed matters: https://www.stoneycreekoil.com.au/in...mart&Itemid=17