Changing my politial stance! The Green Party

[Hemlock]

I am totally disillusioned with the political parties I usually vote for and indeed all the others, it seems to me that year by year they are all mouth and no trousers, full of fine words and presentations but do absolutely nothing and look at the resulting dreadful state this country is in now.
Time and again we've thought about moving abroad but it seems like such a cop out.
I had a look at the Green Party manifesto today and was really impressed by what I saw, it is everything we personally believe in - also they are actively promoting veganism (see "Food" in the manifesto). I think I will join the party.


http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/mfss/

[cobweb]

I did the same this year, Hemlock after feeling a bit let-down in some ways by our Tony . I was a member of the Labour Party Young Socialists when I was a teenager and have been a loyal Labour voter ever since I was old enough .

[philfox]

the depressing thing is that under the current voting system we are only likely to have a tory or a labour government. so much for democracy or indeed any room for real change

[Corum]

I spent about six months as a member of the Militant Tendency in Bradford when I was younger (major socialist), but I got fed up with Marxism got twisted into communism along the way and got sick of being called Comrade all the time.

[BlackCats]

I am an armchair supporter of Green Party.
They sound good but any information I have read sounds so idealistic I just don't know if people will vote for them en masse. I think humans are too selfish in general (sorry to sound so pessimistic.)

The borough where I live has the choice between a vote for Labour or vote for BNP for particular wards.

[mjnewbould]

my husband and i are Green Party supporters - we find ourselves agreeing with almost all they say on just about everything. I think that Caroline Lucas is absolutely excellent. Last general election we put up the money for someone to stand - but I have to say we did'nt get anywhere - but i just hope that the compaign did something to raise the profile of the issues! However in our area (Rossendale) the BNP is the biggest of the small parties and they take a lot of the vote from those that don't like the big three. Our political system is so skewed against small parties - its so difficult to get publicity and quite often the small parties are not invited to debates with the canidiates for the big three (the excuse is usually given that it just gives a chance for the BNP to give their views - so what - they've every right to). Anyhow it was great going to the count even though we did'nt get anywere!

[twinkle]

I voted Green in the last local election we had here, and 2 out of the 3 candidates got in for the ward! I was at work when I found out and had a minor silent fit in my chair. My colleagues didn't ask why I was punching the air, I wonder if they noticed

[absentmindedfan]

My vote is worthless in my borough. I do vote, but it's such a pointless and demeaning exercise here that I'm not sure I'll bother in future.

[Holly78]

I was very annoyed to find that in the last local election the candidates were almost all Conservative with a couple of Liberal Democrats and one Independent candidate. I wish there had been a Green Party candidate - they would certainly get my vote! Sadly though they are unlikely to ever get into Government, as someone has already said.

[horselesspaul]

As has been pointed out, in the UK the voting system unfortunately means that if you vote Green you get Blue or worse..
The recent Green rise in the local vote here in Brighton has served only to hand the council to the Tories, in effect.
Until we have proportional representation of some sort then voting Green will really only be a protest option. Whether it puts any pressure on the main 2 parties to be genuinely "greener" remains to be seen..
It seems to me that The Green Party suffer from not having a defined role as a political party nationally and do not present a credible alternative government, and so will not be getting my cynical hack vote.

[gogs67]

the depressing thing is that under the current voting system we are only likely to have a tory or a labour government. so much for democracy or indeed any room for real change

Look to Scotland!

[cobweb]

Look to Scotland!

Precisely! - we're the leaders in the political field up here .

Honestly, if everyone just sits about saying that the Greens can't get anywhere and don't/won't get enough support then, sure enough, yes, we'll end up with the status quo. To me that's similar to saying that there's no point going vegan because 99% of other people don't/won't .

[gogs67]

Precisely! - we're the leaders in the political field up here .

.

Vive la revolution!

[cobweb]

Vive la revolution!

Quite! . Alex is my local M.P! .

[gogs67]

Ah,lovely Banff and Buchan,lol!I must admit i do like the guy,i just hope he delivers what we need and that 'toys out the pram' labour lot don't constantly try to veto everything to point score!

[gogs67]

In fact just saw this for what labour are up to now!
Alex Salmond said if he won a seat in the Scottish parliament he would not take two sets of wages and he would give up the Scottish Parliament one.
Holyrood officials tell him the rules say he has to take them both. So he sets up a charity to give the wages to local youth projects instead.

All good, no problems, he only takes one wage and some youth groups benefit as well.

then Labours Andy Kerr says this


Quote:
"The tax paying public are right to feel angry, let down and double crossed by Alex Salmond's empty words.
"Salmond promised he would only claim one parliamentary salary and he hasn't. Instead his spin doctors have been desperately scrabbling around for a quick fix. "

I mean come on, that's just desperate

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6284740.stm

[thecatspajamas1]

I'm green party too, although I never get around to voting.

[Hemlock]

I know it's unlikely the Green Party will ever get in but.......I'd rather not vote at all than vote for the main parties and not voting is not an option for me!
I agree with everything on their manifesto which you can't say about most.
I used to be a lip service Tory and Corum the opposite end of the spectrum - I'd never vote for either again. They are full of mealy mouthed promises that never happen

[Hemlock]

...

[rantipole]

It's even more unlikely the Green Party will get a foothold in the US, but I still vote for them. I try to convince fellow queers to vote for them too, as they are much more pro-gay than the Democrats. If everyone doesn't vote for them because they think the Greens will lose, then of course they will lose. Be the change!

Cheers,
rant

[Herbidacious]

Whenever there's a Green candidate standing I vote for them (I've read their manifesto and agree with the vast majority of it), but it's rare that a green stands where I live, and I don't bother voting for any other party now. I used to vote Lib Dem to try to keep the Tories out but I now write on my ballot paper, 'none of the above', because I want to vote, but there's no one decent to vote for.

I'm very sceptical of politicians in general and sometimes wonder if, by some miracle, the Greens became the government, how long would it be before sleeze and corruption infected them.

[TheBringer]

I am part of the green party too. I voted in the last small elections here. Where there were no green candidates I voted for democrat (although I am wondering how great they are). If all us potential green party voters do vote and dont get depressed by the masses we can have a good effect.

And with all these environmental changes people might look to this party more. I think if you are going to vote green do so. And don't back off. We need all the votes we can get. (It's great we even have the option of voting green)
change will come.

[MarkAnthony]

My view on voting is that to an extent it's essential to go for the lesser of evils, as few parties are going to represent your views 100% of the time (although I most admit the Green Party comes very close for me, as I imagine it does for many members of this board). I vote Liberal Democrat nationally as I sympathise with their ways of thinking, even if I frequently do not agree 100% on policy. However, at local and European elections I will continue to vote Green, as they do have what I consider a reasonable chance of attaining office at this level.

If I move to a constituency where the Greens have a strong showing of support I will vote for them there at a national level.

[Imported Memory]

I vote green. Even though I live in a completely republican state where even a democrat would have a hard time winning any elections.

I figure if my vote is just going to be worthless anyway, I should use it however the heck I want.

[Tibetan Snake]

Vote Lib Dem and give Peter Suttcliff the vote

[Mzee]

(Almost) at the end of the party conferences, it's the LibDems who have bravely come out with a consistent green policy that all fits together. The other parties have the odd green policy, but nothing this radical or consistent; I'm impressed by Ming this year.
I always vote tactically; in this area of the South West in Parliamentary elections it's really a choice between Conservative and LibDem. In European elections I vote for the Green Party, as there is a chance of success.

[angelamc]

Does the British green party have basically the same manifesto as the USA green party?

[Mzee]

Hello angelamc,
As far as I know they're very similar. Although obviously each country will have its own priorities, green parties recognise that we're all on the one planet, so what I do in my backyard affects the environment in yours as well. For the policies of the UK Green Party, have a look at http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/

[angelamc]

Thanks for the link! I admit that I don't know much about the green party but I'm going to look into it!

[treaclemine]

Whenever there's a Green candidate standing I vote for them (I've read their manifesto and agree with the vast majority of it), but it's rare that a green stands where I live.

I have started standing as a Green local elections candidate for these very reasons! You are very unlikely to get elected and be forced to do the job the first time that someone stands in your area And it gives everyone in your position the chance to vote with their true beliefs ...

[Sum Doood]

Sadly though they are unlikely to ever get into Government, as someone has already said.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy though, isn't it. If the Greens look like the party for you, pleeeeeeeeeeeease don't not vote for them.

[horselesspaul]

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy though, isn't it. If the Greens look like the party for you, pleeeeeeeeeeeease don't not vote for them.

The United Kingdom's first past the post system really renders a Green Party vote useless and usually has the opposite effect to the intended one..
Proportional Representation now!

[Sum Doood]

Are you advocating that nobody should vote Green?

And that perhaps there should be no Green party?

[horselesspaul]

Are you advocating that nobody should vote Green?

And that perhaps there should be no Green party?

I am saying that without PR or a fair voting system that a Green vote at Parliamentary level is ineffective.
Voting for a party (should one exist) that could deliver Proportional Representation would be a better move in the long run, returning to a Green vote to deliver some MP's.

Local government elections in England are another thing entirely. It is obviously more worth voting Green in order to effect change since there is a list system and fewer votes are required to elect a local representative.
We have Green councillors here in Brighton. Unfortunately in the last election the Green vote served very nearly to hand the council to the Conservatives by ousting previous Labour councillors. The Green agenda is however being heard properly which must be a good thing. I salute them for that.

[gogs67]

The United Kingdom's first past the post system really renders a Green Party vote useless and usually has the opposite effect to the intended one..
Proportional Representation now!

The BNP came close to the number of Green votes in the last general election which is a tad concerning..................although i dunno which is worse,the lack of Green votes or the additional right wing votes!

[horselesspaul]

The BNP came close to the number of Green votes in the last general election which is a tad concerning..................although i dunno which is worse,the lack of Green votes or the additional right wing votes!

Warning:
Fair voting systems can f*ck you up.
It's true.
I hope somehow that the oxygen of publicity would cause the bilious xenophobes to self-implode.
I am a glass half full person..and part-time muppet..

[Sum Doood]

......... Voting for a party (should one exist) that could deliver Proportional Representation would be a better move in the long run,.

In the meantime, vote Green?

I like this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[neil]

I am saying that without PR or a fair voting system that a Green vote at Parliamentary level is ineffective.
Voting for a party (should one exist) that could deliver Proportional Representation would be a better move in the long run, returning to a Green vote to deliver some MP's.

Local government elections in England are another thing entirely. It is obviously more worth voting Green in order to effect change since there is a list system and fewer votes are required to elect a local representative.
We have Green councillors here in Brighton. Unfortunately in the last election the Green vote served very nearly to hand the council to the Conservatives by ousting previous Labour councillors. The Green agenda is however being heard properly which must be a good thing. I salute them for that.

Is there any real difference between the 3 main parties ? I used to vote Labour but since Blair is there really any difference? The Green party is the best option for me.

[horselesspaul]

Is there any real difference between the 3 main parties ? I used to vote Labour but since Blair is there really any difference? The Green party is the best option for me.

Much of it depends on how much the Tories care about anything important to you. I don't know you but personally I fear for the health service, schools and community organisations if the Tories get in. It is not hard to remember what it was like for their last 17 year rule.
Voting anything other than Labour in most of the country will lamentably give you the likelihood of a Conservative MP. Proportional representation might not cure this but at least we all know it's fair.
If we had PR I'd be voting Green without doubt.

[green woman]

I live in a pretty conservative area and tactical voting is useless so if a green candidate is standing I will vote for them.

I don't know you but personally I fear for the health service, schools and community organisations if the Tories get in.

Me too. Cameron's all hug a hoody now and they changed their logo to a tree because they've gone all eco-friendly but if/when the tories get in again they'll be back to their I'm alright Jack policies and all the services and organisations you mentioned will suffer and their green credentials will turn back to blue.

It is not hard to remember what it was like for their last 17 year rule.

If you're an ex coal miner or a traveller or a protester or anyone who lived an alternative lifestyle during the tory 17 years you'll never forget. Unfortunately most of the rest of the population are either too young to remember or have very short and selective memories. No matter how bad new labour are, and I personally think they're very very bad, the tories would be even worse.

[horselesspaul]

If you're an ex coal miner or a traveller or a protester or anyone who lived an alternative lifestyle during the tory 17 years you'll never forget. Unfortunately most of the rest of the population are either too young to remember or have very short and selective memories. No matter how bad new labour are, and I personally think they're very very bad, the tories would be even worse.

This is entirely too correct.

[BlackCats]

Me too. Cameron's all hug a hoody now and they changed their logo to a tree because they've gone all eco-friendly but if/when the tories get in again they'll be back to their I'm alright Jack policies and all the services and organisations you mentioned will suffer and their green credentials will turn back to blue.
If you're an ex coal miner or a traveller or a protester or anyone who lived an alternative lifestyle during the tory 17 years you'll never forget. Unfortunately most of the rest of the population are either too young to remember or have very short and selective memories. No matter how bad new labour are, and I personally think they're very very bad, the tories would be even worse.

(Lol at hug a hoody!)

I remember my parents and their attitude towards the government when I was younger and I will never change my view of the Tory party. I can see why they appeal to some people though.

[horselesspaul]

I can see why they appeal to some people though.

Five minute attention span. Mememe culture. The promise of lower taxes AND higher public spending for people with no concept of economics caught in a credit squeeze, oh the irony.
The Not The Labour Party angle is their single biggest recruiter imo.

[Ruby Rose]

Not The Labour Party angle is their single biggest recruiter imo.

There's the rub. The system for Parliament is set up for a two-party system. The only way to break that "if you don't want them, vote for us" approach would be for the largest of the smaller parties to form an alliance - and that's an unlikely scenario. Having said that, though, a smaller party can come through eventually if the groundswell is behind them - that's exactly what the Labour Party did at the turn of the last century.

My own feeling is that although I have the power to change my community at local level (and so my vote for the council is important), my only real power at national level is in my purse. Big business runs the big parties. Big business, to some extent, wants my business.

[Hemlock]

I absolutely despise the current government - they are spineless morons who haven't done anything useful with the NHS and have done nothing but pour money into managment which we don't need. I've been working for the NHS for 25 years and the only other time it's been this bad was when Virginia Bottomley was health minister - I was asked to greet her when she visited Redhill Hospital and I refused to speak to or look at her

Labour pour money into popular services like sexual health for fit healthy people and rip it away from unsexy things like diabetic ulcer care which means I'm cramming 20 people a day with ulcers at risk from amputation into one day into my clinic and doing the minimum for all of them It's all bollox.

As for Cameron - don't make me laugh, what a waste of space.

What we need is a revolution!!!!!

[Ruby Rose]

^ Amen to that, Hem! I survived the NHS under the Tories, but it took New Labour's Agenda for Change to make me finally quit. The difference was that under the Tories, it felt like they were squeezing it dry ready to sell off in chunks to someone else, but under New Labour, it felt like it was really just falling to pieces, with no-one waiting in the wings to come and snap up chunks of it. And the worst thing was, when it was the Tories, I could kid myself that it was "them" - the capitalist bastards and the self-centred middle-England greedsters - but when it was New Labour, I felt that I was partly to blame by voting them in. So I stopped.

[Corum]

I've read the Guardian since I was knee-high to a grasshopper (well, 11 anyway) and it's sort of formed my political opinions but not necessarily on the side of Labour.

This rabble is not the Labour party of old - Tony Blair wouldn't get elected if it had been the same as before... then again, I see no difference - just that the pound's got more devalued and we're in bigger thrall to the EU.

I personally would love to see the likes of UKIP get in, in this country but thanks to Mr Perma-Tan (Robert Kilroy Silk) almost destroying the party, there's not much hope for that.

[gogs67]

Labour in Scotland are finding that what they have taken for granted for 80 years is no longer!
People who have voted Labour for 4 generations for no other reason than 'My father voted labour, my grandfather voted labour etc' are now turning against them and voting SNP.
The upcoming by election in the labour stronghold of Glenrothes should be interesting, they currently hold a majority of over 10,000, safe as houses you may think, but a 13,000 majority in one of their safest strongholds in the UK, Glasgow East, was overturned a few weeks ago by the SNP in one of the biggest swings ever seen.
Interesting times ahead.
Once/if Scotland becomes independent then i can see more ecologically sound thinking getting implemented. From an increase in wind farms and wave generators to getting rid of Trident to some poor place down South, the future does indeed look Green up here!

[Corum]

What makes me laugh, is that in these days of credit crunch - we can't get a plumber, builder or electrician to come round our house to do some work cash-in-hand because they're all too busy. And those that can come around (apart from our lovely plasterer) try charging double the going rate (thieving gits!!)

The credit crunch is bogus, made to keep everyone under control. Same as HIPS were brought in by the Government to slow down the housing market - which it has done, now everyone's complaining that they can't sell their houses.

[firstandthen]

I live in a pretty conservative area and tactical voting is useless so if a green candidate is standing I will vote for them.


Me too. Cameron's all hug a hoody now and they changed their logo to a tree because they've gone all eco-friendly but if/when the tories get in again they'll be back to their I'm alright Jack policies and all the services and organisations you mentioned will suffer and their green credentials will turn back to blue.


If you're an ex coal miner or a traveller or a protester or anyone who lived an alternative lifestyle during the tory 17 years you'll never forget. Unfortunately most of the rest of the population are either too young to remember or have very short and selective memories. No matter how bad new labour are, and I personally think they're very very bad, the tories would be even worse.

YES. Just, oh my god, YES. I completely flippin' agree.