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Thread: Fake meat

  1. #1

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    Default Fake meat

    Last month I started America's first vegan burger joint her in Missoula, Montana called Mr. Goodburger's. The response has been great however many of our customers bring their young children and a Goodburger is too big for them to eat. I would love to offer tasty "kid tested" vegan chicken nuggets. Has to be vegan not just vegetarian. Any ideas would be great! Thank you!

  2. #2
    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    well done you - hope it goes from strength to strength!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Yes congratulations! If I lived in your area, I would support your business all the time! There aren't enough vegan restaurants around and I've never before heard of a vegan burger joint.

    Up here in Canada Yves Vege Cuisine (which I'm pretty sure is available in the USA) make a vegan "chick'n nugget" which is actually pretty nice, texture and flavour wise.

    Roxy

  4. #4

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    I don't have any suggestions, except don't call it "chicken," please.

    Yay for Goodburger's! I hope we get one in Indiana soon.

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    Quote Konarocks
    Last month I started America's first vegan burger joint her in Missoula, Montana called Mr. Goodburger's. The response has been great however many of our customers bring their young children and a Goodburger is too big for them to eat. I would love to offer tasty "kid tested" vegan chicken nuggets. Has to be vegan not just vegetarian. Any ideas would be great! Thank you!

    congratulations! What a great idea! I have also heard the something like chicken nuggets could be made with seitan - making the batter from silken tofu -

    i love the japanese tofu, Age Dashi - which is tofu pieces dipped in potato starch, then fried and served with a sweet and sour sauce - it seems you could flavor the potato starch a bit to make it even more kid friendly, and then offer whatever dipping sauces kids might like.

    all the best,
    globesetter

  6. #6

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    Hi Konarocks!

    I am on the East Coast & I have been in discussions with Mr. Goodburger's to open some of the restaurants in PA! Congratulations to you on your store opening in Missoula!

    I am constantly searching the web for new info on Mr. Goodburger's as it develops & I came across this thread. I plan to open my first restaurant in the 2nd Quarter of 2005.

    To answer your question, follow the links below. "Health is Wealth" is a company that has great tasting VEGAN chicken-free nuggets & chicken-free fingers! They are really great tasting & have been given a thumbs up from my 1 year old daughter who just loves them!

    The chicken-free nuggets are even sold for food-service so they can be purchased in bulk for the purpose you are looking for!

    Check it out:

    http://www.healthiswealthfoods.com/c...0nug%20pat.htm

    http://www.healthiswealthfoods.com/c...%20fingers.htm

    Also, I am wondering, do you only sell products that are completely vegan at your location? I know the Hawaii location offered a dairy cheddar cheese with some of their burgers as an option, but I am not willing to do that. Tony did mention that a vegan cheese such as Tofutti brand may be used as well. I only want to sell product that is completely 100% animal free.

    I would love to know how you feel about how things are going at your location - feel free to Private Message me here & I will give you my email address.

  7. #7

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    I looked up those chicken nuggets that Bagger9 reccomended and they looked good so I recommended them to another message board thing I'm on.
    They said that one time they had mixed up vegan chicken nuggets with real ones! I just thought I'd give you all the links that someone else gave me. I'm sure it's not a problem anymore, but just in case you're curious. I still want to try it...what do you think?

    http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/p...p?t=9826&pp=40

    http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforc.../ENF00815.html

  8. #8

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    Thanks foir that info - I did go ahead & read about that incident - this is the first I have heard of it & yes, that is frightening! I did not get any of the mislabeled boxes myself thank God!

    I sent an email to the company asking what steps they have taken to insure that something like this will not happen again. The easiest fix is to no longer sell real chicken right? It is strange that a company that purports to be dedicated to healthy food choices sells real chicken along with vegan products.

    Anyway, I can let the mistake slide personally as long as it never happens again. As far as the taste of their vegan products, I think it is fantastic & would be very good in a restaurant like Mr. Goodburger's.

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    Quote Artichoke47
    I don't have any suggestions, except don't call it "chicken," please.

    Yay for Goodburger's! I hope we get one in Indiana soon.
    doubtful, but i'm keeping my fingers crossed along with you. i'd really like to try their burgers but unfortunatly indiana isn't exactly a big market for all-vegetarian restaurants.

    and those health is wealth nugget things are pretty good. probably the best vegetarian chik'n nuggets i've had.

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    sorry, that last one was me.

  11. #11

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    Wow great!!!

    I don't like it when things are called "chicken", "fish" or something like that though..
    Auschwitz begins wherever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they're only animals.
    -Theodor Adorno (1903-1969), German Jewish philosopher forced into exile by the Nazis

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    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Question vegetarian meat??

    in a local chinese takeout restaurant, they have a whole section called 'vegetarian meat' with different flavours! i haven't been there yet, and i'm assuming it isnt beancurd (tofu) so anyone any ideas what it may consist of?
    thank you

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    The mock duck type stuff? I think it's seitan.

    Place up the road from me does it - although be warned, it's pretty meat-like. Not sure I'd order it again just yet!

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    Quote cedarblue
    in a local chinese takeout restaurant, they have a whole section called 'vegetarian meat' with different flavours! i haven't been there yet, and i'm assuming it isnt beancurd (tofu) so anyone any ideas what it may consist of?
    thank you

    There are a few restaurants here who also serve different `meat`s`that are vegan - they are soy or seitan products - they are seasoned and prepared differently to taste like whatever meat they are posing as... I find them a bit boring, and donīt like eating processed food, but some vegans I know love it.

    In large whole food grocery stores, you can also get various `meats`that are usually soy products....


    regards,
    globesetter

  15. #15
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    Default Protein Substitute

    I hate calling it meat substitute but hey. Which do you prefer?? I have tried Seitan but I think I screwed up making it. When I cooked the seitan it was reminisant of under cooked poultry or on the other scale it was a little to burnt

    So I have two questions
    Which "meat substitute do you prefer??
    and can anyone help me with my sucky seitan??
    "Its bad karma to fuck with the stoned"- Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas Comentary (found on criterion collection)

  16. #16

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    I don't eat any "meat substitutes." When I first went vegan and as a vegetarian, I ate TVP, soy-based analogues, et cetera, but I have now found that I much prefer legumes and nuts in my recipes.

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    so you don't eat tofu??
    "Its bad karma to fuck with the stoned"- Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas Comentary (found on criterion collection)

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    I don't like substitute meats either.

  19. #19
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    I quite enjoy tofu. Like I said I didn't like seitan but I think I screwed up...
    "Its bad karma to fuck with the stoned"- Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas Comentary (found on criterion collection)

  20. #20

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    Quote TheFirstBus
    so you don't eat tofu??
    No, I don't like tofu one bit. The consistency in my mouth is enough to make me gag, or worse, throw up. I'm being honest here. I don't like the taste, no matter what it's mixed with.

    However, I will use tofu in desserts, such as for cakes, brownies, and frostings, but that's a rare ocassion and normally I'm making it for other people as well. You can't taste the tofu in the dessert.

  21. #21
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    i eat tofu because i really like it, although it took me a while to get used to cooking it well. when i first went vegetarian i tried meat-style foods but i don't know why because i never really liked the taste of meat anyway. i think it was just because i never realised there were so many other, better things to eat.

    most meat-style foods i've found available in the UK aren't vegan and the ones that are are usually horrible. i tried seitan and it was bizarre, it was really wheaty and chewy - yuk. maybe i didn't cook it properly but it seems quite expensive so i don't think i'll bother trying again

    i sometimes eat RealEat's Vegemince which is quite good, just for a change in bolognese and chilli.

  22. #22
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    Seitan was made in china thousands of years ago bu buddhist monks to replace meat.

    I like seitan and tofu a lot. Not because of the meat likeness, just like it as is, and it does not rem,ind me of meat. Tofurky is completely vegan and very delicious. Vegan deli slices, tofurkey thanksgiving meal(though is a bit expensive), and some others. They taste very good, and not like real meat, but better in it's own vegan way ^_^

    I have not tried making my own seitan yet, as it does seem a bit comfusing, for now i will buy it. But make sure you made it right, as otherwise it is very good and healthy, unless oyu are glutenintolerant and such.

  23. #23
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    Are Mock Meats Too Real? From Joanne Stepaniak. http://www.vegsource.com/jo/qa/qamock.htm

    Q. People often ask me why vegans eat mock meats. They say it doesn't make sense for us to eat fake burgers, turkey, and lunchmeats if our true intention is to avoid all animal products. I've even known some vegans who wouldn't touch certain brands of veggie burgers because they seem too "real." Personally, I enjoy these products. Should I feel guilty about eating them?

    A. For the most part, processed meat products don't resemble animal body parts. By the time raw meat reaches consumers, most of it is skinned, boned, ground, chopped, sliced, or diced. Various cuts also may be formed into patties, loaves, roasts, links, and other assorted shapes. We recognize "hamburger" as "meat," even though it actually doesn't resemble anything specific. Consequently, we associate veggie burgers with hamburgers because they have a similar appearance (and sometimes a comparable texture and flavor), but neither looks like an animal's limb. We live in a meat-centered culture and are surrounded by meat-eaters daily, despite our displeasure about it. Nearly all vegans grew up eating meat or living among meat-eaters, so meat in all its forms is customary and familiar. Animal flesh is a central feature of most holiday and social gatherings, and, healthful or not, many of us learned to fashion our meals around animal products. It is reasonable that people accustomed to this way of eating would want a painless replacement for meat when they become vegan. Having a cruelty-free alternative to meat can make vegan meal planning a snap, and it also can help ease the transition to an animal-free diet.

    Nevertheless, mock meats are not solely for new vegans; long-time vegans and even nonvegetarians enjoy them as well. Tasty analogs are ideal for meat-loving family members and friends, as they are a food we can delight in and share. They are perfect for warm weather cookouts when nearly everyone wants something to grill, office picnics, parties, and other celebrations. When coworkers, friends, or relatives are eating burgers, we can indulge in a veggie version and not feel alienated. When people partake of foods that are comparable, even if they are not identical, there is a feeling of unity and camaraderie. Because these foods can be heated quickly, they are convenient for hectic lifestyles and people on the run. Students, teens, and busy parents find them to be a godsend when appetites are raging and time is in short supply.

    An interesting detail about meat is that it hardly ever is relished plain. Meat-eaters generally douse it with tenderizers, gravies, sauces, herbs, spices, breading, and a variety of condiments. At the very least, it almost always is served with salt and pepper. Meat without these seasonings and treatments usually is bland and relatively unpalatable. When people say they crave meat, what they really long for are the flavor enhancements, the chewy texture, or a sense of fullness and satisfaction. All of these are replicated easily with pure plant foods in the form of mock meats.

    The vast majority of people who become vegan or vegetarian do not alter their eating habits because they abhor the taste of meat. While they may find animal products objectionable for myriad reasons, typically this has more to do with how meat is produced, or its effect on human health or the environment, rather than an aversion to its flavor. No one should be ashamed about having enjoyed the taste of meat prior to becoming vegan. Generally, those of us who ate meat at some point in our lives liked it, and this notion isn't going to vanish simply because we choose to change our diet. Although we might feel that meat is repugnant on a spiritual, philosophical, or intellectual level, our palates have memory. We cannot erase a personal history of once having enjoyed the taste of meat, and our emotional attachment to it may endure.

    There is no reason for vegans to avoid plant-based foods that simulate meat or other animal products. For many vegans, meat analogs fill a void. They also are handy, practical, comforting, and satisfying. Plant-based mock meats may be reminiscent of animal products, but the critical point is that they aren't meat.

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    i love seitan! i have a friend who makes it all the time & i guess it's kinda complicated. he leaves in the freezer for days to get the consistency right (he makes chicken-fried seitan with it).

    you can buy it in cans at asian markets but it's hard to find them without sugar. they also taste kinda funky but you can circumvent that buy soaking it in water & draining it really well. my boyfriend & i made jerk seitan "chicken" in this way & it was sooo good.

    also some asian restaurants make fake meat dishes with it. there's an awesome vegan chinese restaurant here that makes fake chicken nuggets & fake fish filets with it. also in oakland, ca there's a place called "the great wall" & its whole menu is is made with seitan substitutes. i had szechaun "chicken" & it blew my mind (or tongue i guess).

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    This is interesting...I am seeing that some of you started out eating some meatless "meat" in the beginning and are no longer eating it now. I never really thought about it, but I don't eat it much anymore either. I used to eat it pretty much every day, but now it's really rare. I do, however, provide "substitutes" to my daughter's daycare so that her food will resemble theirs enough that she won't try to eat theirs (she once stole a bite of another child's fish..blah!). I'm afraid that it might be a mistake to do this, because I will have to explain to her later why her food is different from theirs. At home, I usually don't give her "subs". I sure hope that when she is old enough to understand what meat is, she will not want any part of it or the "subs". Right now, at 2 years old, she loves beans and pasta and fruit (her favorite) and bread and corn and potatoes, but she won't touch any colorful veggies (red or yellow or green).

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    hmm... Someday when I have children I would like to raise them vegan. Even if my wife was a meat eater. Oh and explain to her (when she's old enough) the truth about all this meat deal. I am no parent, buy you know how most parents would personify stealing as wrong and under no circumstances do you steal?? Go about it like that only with meat I should think because its the truth right??
    "Its bad karma to fuck with the stoned"- Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas Comentary (found on criterion collection)

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    i love tofu and seitan. i've made seitan once, which was actually kind of fun, but not quite as tasty as the stuff that i've bought. i also like tempeh, although i find it the kind of thing i can only eat once in a while, and i don't usually eat it plain like the other two. i eat some meat substitutes, such as veggie burgers, hot dogs, and meatless meatballs, but all of those foods never resembled meat much int he first place. i prefer my veggie burgers to be more "veggie patties" with an emphasis on using grains and vegetables rather than textured protein to resemble meat. meatballs and hot dogs were always more fillers than actual meat anyway. my mother once bought me fake salami, but i couldn't do more than sniff it as the meaty smell bothered me so much.

  28. #28

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    I used to eat seitan (pronounced saytan) and a TVP made of organic steam processed soy. I actually ate them long after going veggie, so there was no wish to find a corpse like substance, I just wanted some dense chewy food. It didn't last long. After going vegan I did some reading about nutrition, digestion, and food processing. Now my favorite thing to put in burgers is falafel or mushroom. No more heavily processed gunk for me thank you.

    For those unfamiliar with the reason for eating mushrooms, shitaki and many other wood grown mushrooms are nutritionally superior to 'meat', have fiber, and of course don't require the death of animals. I am growing Shitaki and Enokitake in my kitchen at home (it's very easy actually), and will be growing morels and portobello soon. Mature mushrooms can be prepared like traditional omni dishes, or many other creative ways. They have the savory taste that some new vegans miss, and many have a nutty flavor (like shiaki, morel, and gods mushrooms). There are actually dozens of mushrooms that can be grown by hobbyists, all with unique taste and texture. Some are high yield like oyster mushrooms, and some can be grown in your refrigerator or a cellar quite easily (like oyster and winter mushrooms). A few require very constant climate and take up to two years to fruit, but that is not the norm. In fact many varieties can be harvested twice a month. Anyway, I like mushrooms.

  29. #29
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    that rules! i like mushrooms too but organic ones are so expensive. i want to grow mushrroms--can you give me a hint at where to start? thanks.

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    ooh, i'd love it if phillip could start a homegrown mushroom thread! i'm very interested.

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    I just bought organic kits. You can clone whatever you get in the kit. Most kits are just pre grown mycelium on a block of whatever medium. Since they are an established gorwth you don't really have to worry about contamination like you do with cloning or spores. There is quite a bit of information on the web about growing mushrooms at home. You can grow them in jars, aquariums, or even on logs in your yard or cellar. It's really not difficult once you understand how shrooms grow. My kits were around $20 and they've already paid for themselves quite a few times. In fact I'm even considering growing them professionally because they are so easy to grow. I think a lot of the hype about how hard they are to grow is just anti-competitive behavior at its best.

  32. #32

    Default How do you feel about what other people call "meat substitutes"?

    I am talking about soy-based products, such as burgers, hot dogs, sausage, bacon, et cetera. I don't think tofu qualifies, but I could be wrong; I just don't think tofu is trying to act like something else that would be an omnivore food. (talk about personification - now tofu is acting!)

    Anyway, I find that when I see vegans and vegetarians eating such things, it's not necessarily bad, but a lot of times, this is the case:

    1. They feel that this is the only source of adequate protein;
    2. They therefore neglect the healthier foods, like whole grains, fruits, vegetables, legumes, and nuts;
    3. They do not cook and experiment and only eat those "convenience" foods, similar to an omnivore diet except obviously healthier.


    To me, the best part about being vegan is cooking with so much different choices. We have so many vegetable-legume-whole-grain-nut combinations, it's unbelieveable. It's also amazing how dessert can be made with nuts and fruit and be so delicious.

    I also do not like the way the substitutes smell or taste, but that's not too relevant, I suppose.

    What are your thoughts?
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    i feel that for people who just became vegan and are used to such products, its great. but that once u are vegan for a while, u dont really feel the need to eat things that represent meat as there are so many more delicious things to eat. i am annoyed however that they all contain gluten!
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    i don't really bother them with much anymore. i think too that they're useful for new veggies who don't realise there are tastier and healthier options avalable. they were handy for me as a teenager when everyone ate burgers and sausages and things. but the further away from an animal-based diet i have become the less i feel the need for these sorts of foods.
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    I have nothing against them, and eat them myself, from time to time. However, it's mainly for convenience sake. But I do really like the taste of the Yves Breakfast Sausages.

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    I could never eat 'not chicken' or 'not bacon'. The thought makes me just as sick as eating the real thing, but if that tickles your fancy, then I don't have a problem with it.

    I am not a fan of meaty texture - I like veggie burgers that are veggie burgers - not ones that are supposed to mock meat. I have never tried a vegan sausage or hot dog - probably coz I am just not interested.

    Ever since I was a little girl I loved beans - so I base my diet on that (Dhal anyone?) and rice

  37. #37
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    I still like the odd meat sub every now and again, but mostly it's the whole foods that take center stage on my plate.

  38. #38
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    I love 'Veggie Ribs', and sometimes eat other meat substitutes when I am feeling a bit lazy.
    I don't really see the problem with them. I used to love meat, and it's texture, but when I was a teenager began to realise where it actually came from, and went right off it!! So the substitutes are just a treat sometimes, but I could live without them.
    I don't really understand why some people say it's wrong to eat them - i.e burgers are just burgers, it's just a word, isn't it? They can be made from anything, really.

  39. #39

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    I don't think it's wrong to eat them; I'm sorry if it appeared that way.

    I just think that certain people believe that they can't get enough protein without these substitute products, and I have also seen people eat a sandwich with meat substitutes and neglect to eat healthful foods, such as fruits and vegetables.
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  40. #40

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    I see nothing wrong with eating "meat" substitutes. I eat them all the time. I love Gardenburger's Riblets and Health Is Wealth No Chicken Nuggets. I feel good about eating them, because I know no animal died in their production. That's the kind of food I grew up eating, and it makes me feel "homey" to be able to find these foods in a vegan format.
    I know a lot of vegetarians/vegans don't approve of them, because they think you're trying to emulate meat. If anyone has read "Becoming Vegan," by Davis and Melina, they recommend eating them. Some of the veggie "meats" are loaded with vitamins, and, of course, protein. They're also fast and easy to prepare when you're in a hurry or don't feel like cooking.

  41. #41
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    My 11 year old Daughter and my Giant man like them occasionally and since we tend to eat so many complete and whole foods and mostly vegetables with legumes and grains, I know that the infrequent calorie/protein/B-12 rich supplemental food is ok for a growing girl who doesn't really care for soy or tempeh and a very large but lean man who was raised on no less than 2 dozen eggs a meal and 2 gallons of milk a day in addition to 4 carne asada burritos and about 3000 additional calories a day...Their bodies are more accustomed to eating more concentrated sources of protein because they were formed and raised on animal proteins. I do not believe that they *require* these concentrated foods, and at the same time I know they derive nourishment from them that is useful to building bodies and keeping weight on. The same nutrients are available in an all whole foods vegan diet, by eating a higher volume and variety of foods. I do not feel that "substitutes" are necessary at all.

    I'd say maybe once or twice a month my family uses a veggie patty of some sort (they are good for my daughter when she goes to sleepovers and everyone is eating burgers) and a "Gimme Lean" brunch for the Giant and the Girl...

    Personally, I am RAW and Living in my diet and so I don't use them at this time at all...

  42. #42
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    Don't care for substitutes myself, but eating substitutes is far better than eating animals.
    Eve

  43. #43
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    I haven't found that many substitutes that I like. Though I am a fan of Boca Burgers, grilled and then loaded up with fresh veggies on a wheat roll! I do think it would be bad to rely on them, but I think they serve a nice purpose as another option.

  44. #44
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    Default meat replacement

    I'm finding I can't even eat the meat replacements. It just seems to much like meat.

    How do you guys go about that?
    Last edited by Korn; Nov 5th, 2004 at 02:22 PM. Reason: This was the first post in another thread about the same subject

  45. #45
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    There is a buddist restaurant in Adelaide that specialises in faux-meat dishes in the most disturbing fashion despite almost all of the food being vegan. I have been there with several vegan andvegetarian friends, had a birthday with omni friends and Animal Liberation had a Xmas gathering there and each time it is amusing that I look directly for the vegetable dishes and the tofu variations - but almost everything is tofu or wheat gluten!
    It is confronting to try and face such dishes as 'sizzling beef' since it is very realistic on a hot metal plate in the shape of a cow. Despite this is it always very good food and a great place to take people that feel that every meal requires animals to die. They even have fake fried crumbed king prawns but that kind of realism doesn't appeal. Give me a place that specialises in inventive vegetable preparation anyday.

    A friend and former vegan used to eat gluten tinned duck - with moulded plucked skin. It was too much to face even knowing it wasn't animal and I am not usually squeemish. *shudder*
    "if compassion is extreme, then call me an extremist"

  46. #46
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    I don't mind them once in a while - the fact that it's like meat doesn't bother me so long as I know for certain that it's not meat. (I agree with veganblue that some of the Buddhist "mock meats" are alarmingly realistic though - the first time I had them I had to doublecheck that the restaurant was completely vegetarian )

    However, I know a lot of people can't stomach them - if I were you I just wouldn't buy them. There are plenty of other things to have.

  47. #47

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    I don't do fake meat - it makes me sick. I went to world vegan day festival on Sunday, and there were all these fake meat dishes like "beef" and blackbean, not sausage rolls, "chicken" nuggets etc. They looked so real that I started to gag. My vegan food is vegan food - beans, rice etc... I am turned off by all of that stuff. When I have a burger - it MUST be a veggie burger, like I can see all the vegetables and stuff.

  48. #48
    blue's Avatar
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    What really amazes me is that I really loved meat just a few weeks ago!

  49. #49

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    I guess I'm a weird vegan, because I like fake meat. Garden burgers, "chicken" nuggets, fake sausage patties, I like it all. I love tempeh, haven't tried seitan (have a package hiding in the fridge) and like tofu if it's made right. When I was still vegetarian, I liked morningstar corndogs and Boca bratwursts. Maybe my taste for it will wear off the longer I am vegan. I shouldn't eat so many processed foods, anyways.
    -JK

  50. #50
    I eve's Avatar
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    Quote tsunami
    Seitan was made in china thousands of years ago bu buddhist monks to replace meat.
    Not thousands of years ago tsunami - buddhism didn't reach China for over a thousand years after buddha's death, two and half thousand years ago. I'm interested that the monks made their own seitan instead of receiving alms from the supporting public.
    As for me, like phillip, I grow mushrooms from a kit, and prefer lentils, beans, etc, though I do have the occasional tofu.
    Eve

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