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Thread: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

  1. #101
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post
    I won't go into the gory details but you can see the cleansing benefits of a fast while in the little white room with the echo.
    Is that the one with the bouncy walls?

    Please go into details, I can't imagine for a second what you mean to be honest. Be as graphic as you need to be.
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

  2. #102
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote Risker View Post
    Is that the one with the bouncy walls?

    Please go into details, I can't imagine for a second what you mean to be honest. Be as graphic as you need to be.
    I know, I should have kept that one to myself I guess it's gory how ever it's presented. Sorry.

  3. #103
    snivelingchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    I kind of want to stab my eyes out, because 5 of the people I work with are doing the master cleanse (lemonade diet) for the full 14 days and CONSTANTLY bitching about how much it hurts. I'm like, if it hurts, maybe, just MAYBE, you shouldn't be doing it?!?! It's disgusting to watch, especially as the girl leading it is practically anorexic.

  4. #104
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post
    I know, I should kept that one to myself I guess it's gory how ever it's presented. Sorry.
    No really, I want to know what you mean.
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

  5. #105
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    I read some new theory on the interweb recently. Something about how all the human bodily functions rely on a steady stream of nutrients in order to function properly, if I understood it correctly....Interesting stuff.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote snivelingchild View Post
    I kind of want to stab my eyes out, because 5 of the people I work with are doing the master cleanse (lemonade diet) for the full 14 days and CONSTANTLY bitching about how much it hurts. I'm like, if it hurts, maybe, just MAYBE, you shouldn't be doing it?!?! It's disgusting to watch, especially as the girl leading it is practically anorexic.
    Erg, I know...especially at my first month or two at college, I kept hearing about so many people doing juice fasts and tea fasts for really long times, like almost a week or something. No wonder I hear so many people making bitchy comments about my weight; they all want to be very underweight, and while I do want to lose some weight, the body should have regular food intake, and I believe I've read that people who go without food for awhile have slower metabolism or something afterwards, because their body is in a mode of wanting to store the energy. And that this can make it harder to lose weight in the long run.

    My way of cleansing: try to think more positively, eat less junk, eat more good stuff (like fresh fruit and veg), and otherwise maintain my usual diet (though some days I eat a bit much considering my activity level has dropped off a bit of late - but no reason to stop eating completely, or swear off large categories of food for no good reason, unless that category happens to be the store aisle of soy ice cream!).

  7. #107
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Done properly fasting is one of the healthiest things you can do for yourself mentally and physically. There are ways of re energizing the metabolism so storage will not be a problem. My body throws off more calories after eating following a fast than any other time.

    Your correct in one respect, tea and juice fasts are fad fasts that don't work. There are fasts that include adding substances but sugar, caffeine or specific herbs shouldn't be added to a fast. Purified water should be the only thing consumed and in limited quantities.

    The father of macrobiotics George Ohsawa, recomends rice and altered forms of rice while fasting calling the method rice fasting or rice fast. The benefits are enormous and known to cure debilitating diseases. George Ohsawa claims to have cured himself of tuberculoses by rice fasting.

  8. #108
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post
    Purified water should be the only thing consumed and in limited quantities.

  9. #109
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    nuts!

  10. #110
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote snivelingchild View Post
    I kind of want to stab my eyes out, because 5 of the people I work with are doing the master cleanse (lemonade diet) for the full 14 days and CONSTANTLY bitching about how much it hurts. I'm like, if it hurts, maybe, just MAYBE, you shouldn't be doing it?!?! It's disgusting to watch, especially as the girl leading it is practically anorexic.
    yep, curious, that, isn't it?
    so many people who 'go raw' and/or fast are either super skinny or have a fairly serious eating disorder .

  11. #111
    Vegan_Steven
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    Quote cobweb View Post
    yep, curious, that, isn't it?
    so many people who 'go raw' and/or fast are either super skinny or have a fairly serious eating disorder .

    Really? I'm 6'2" and weigh 230lbs and fast regularly and have for years.


    Your assumption that fasting is " nuts " is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest cultures in the world fast regularly.

  12. #112
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post
    Really? I'm 6'2" and weigh 230lbs and fast regularly and have for years.


    Your assumption that fasting is " nuts " is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest cultures in the world fast regularly.

    i said that *most*, - meaning *most* people that i ever come across - who fast and/or go raw are either thin or have an e.d.

    and, no, that is my opinion of people who think it's 'healthy' to dent their body even ample fresh water (e.g your quote about 'limited quantities' of water). To me, witholding food, and especially limiting water is 'nuts' .

    *edit* i know there are yogis and other similar individuals who have trained, mentally and physically, to be able to survive on little food, but to my mind this does not make it desirable for the average westerner.

  13. #113
    [LMNOP] ellaminnowpea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    ...I suppose some of you are posting in response to my post...?
    I understand there are risks involved... and fundamentally, I don't think fasting is necessary. I know it can cause damage. But I still find something about fasting so alluring. I have gone 10 days without anything... so I'm thinking three-five days won't be too bad.

    I would really like to do it; but it'd be a modified fast. I am NOT fasting on water. I'm doing a juice fast -- green juices and fruit juices. And brewed plain tea for some warmth. The tough part will be transitioning back to solid, higher calorie foods.
    “I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship.” ~ Alcott

  14. #114
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    ella it wasn't a personal thing with me, just an observation, but as you've mentioned it i do happen to think you are making a bad decision, yes

  15. #115
    Mahk
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    I can successfully hold my breath now (a "breathing" fast if you will) for almost a full minute before I pass out or just have to quit. I am working on building that up to a full two minutes, if I can, but others in the world have achieved much longer. My doctor thinks I'm nuts but I'm convinced he's afraid that my breath holding regimen will cure my ailments so I wont have to see him anymore and he will lose my business. His interests are purely financial, you see; he has no actual interest in curing me, he just wants to keep me as a repeat customer and my breath holding regimen will put an end to that!

    Many mammals, including our spiritual cousins the dolphin, successfully hold their breath for even much longer periods of time as an ongoing way of life with great success. You don't hear about dolphins getting cancer or heart disease now do you? Since we are evolved from the sea our selves, this is a perfectly natural trait we instinctively posses and is practiced by numerous wise yogis and their disciples world wide.

    My belief is my breath holding regimen will ultimately purify my body of all the toxins and ideally I will be the first step in humans' evolutionary change to return to the sea from where we came.

    [this post was a joke, just to be sure everyone understands. Withholding food, water, or oxygen are all dumb ideas if you ask me.]

  16. #116
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    i kind of agree, Mahk.

    i enjoy Yoga but i accept i have limitations, i'm a westerner with a less than perfect diet and lifestyle. If i tried to emulate some lifelong yogis i would end up seriously harming myself.

    also, IF i wanted to 'cleanse' my body i would want to drink gallons of pure water, i certainly wouldn't limit my water intake

  17. #117
    cvC
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote cobweb View Post
    i said that *most*, - meaning *most* people that i ever come across - who fast and/or go raw are either thin or have an e.d.
    Hi cobweb, and yes, I think it can be fairly claimed that most who go raw and/or fast become thinner. There are photo's of one such person at the link below - I'd be interested to know what your thought are about them - and I don't know about you, but I'd like to slim down a bit too:

    http://store.rawreform.com/rawreform2.php

    To me, witholding food, and especially limiting water is 'nuts'
    Are you aware of the many stories of people finding enormous benefit in fasting and do you consider this person to have been nuts:

    In 1877, Dr. Tanner was a respected, middle-aged physician living in Duluth, Minnesota. He had suffered for years with rheumatism and had consulted with seven fellow physicians, all of whom considered his case to be “hopeless.” He also suffered from asthma, which chronically disrupted his sleep. He spent his waking hours in constant pain.

    Tanner had been taught in medical school that humans could live only ten days without food and in this knowledge he found solace. Not believing in suicide, he determined that he would simply starve himself to death. As he stated later, “Life to me under the circumstances was not worth living... and [I] had made up my mind to rest from physical suffering in the arms of death.” But fate had an agreeable surprise for Dr. Tanner. By unwittingly invoking a constellation of health-promoting responses associated with water-only fasting, he rapidly recovered.

    By the fifth day of his fast, he was able to begin to sleep more peacefully. By the eleventh day, he reported feeling “as well as in my youthful days.” Fully expecting that by this point he should be near death, he asked a fellow physician, Dr. Moyer, to examine him. Not surprisingly, Dr. Moyer was amazed.

    According to Tanner’s recollection, Moyer told him, “You ought to be at death's door, but you certainly look better than I ever saw you before.” Henry Tanner continued to fast, under Dr. Moyer’s supervision, for an additional 31 days, a total of 42 days in all.

    When fellow physicians heard his story, which was sensationalized in the press, they responded with disbelief and intense criticism. Though widely rebuked as a fraud, Tanner at least had the last laugh. After his fast, Tanner had no symptoms of asthma, rheumatism, or chronic pain and lived a full life until he died at the age of ninety.
    http://www.healthscience.org/Article...ng_article.htm

    It's a long time ago now but I did once manage to go on a 5-day water fast and, while I don't now have much of a recollection of it, I do remember that I felt better for it, was clearer in mind and was still able to function - I attended an interview at the end of it and got the job. I also had once got to a size where I needed trousers with a 40 inch waist and, without knowing or thinking much about fasting, went for two weeks just consuming supermarket freshly squeezed orange juice and water, which, with lots of long walks, got me down to 34 inches - with some fluctuations, I've stayed much the same since. I note that members who, in my opinion, want to poison people and cloud their minds with things like fluoride and injurious vaccinations are also here seeking to dissuade them from what has been known for millennia and among all major religions as beneficial and a help in clearing the mind for most people. In the following quotation from the Gospel of Mathew, it is "when ye fast", not if:

    16Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...er=6&version=9

    Quote ellaminnowpea View Post
    I think I'm starting a fast... or modified fast tomorrow. But haven't formulated the exact plan yet.
    Hi. I recall that you've been suffering from chronic fatigue and, if I remember correctly, arthritis, and one thing you might want to experiment with going without for a while is food from the deadly nightshade family - tomatoes, peppers, potatoes (although not sweet potatoes), eggplants (or aubergines as we call them over here) and also, as I've discovered fairly recently, goji berries. There's some information about the nightshades at the page linked below and from which this is an extract:

    Dr. Childers knew first hand the agony of severe joint pain and stiffness. He discovered that after consuming a meal containing any tomatoes, he experienced severe pain. As his interest in the inflammatory responses to nightshades grew, he observed livestock kneeling in pain from inflamed joints—the livestock had consumed weeds containing a substance called solanine—a chemical known as an alkaloid, which can be highly toxic.
    http://www.gloriagilbere.com/?show=AboutNightshades

    Blueberries also apparently contain solanine and I've recently seen a post in another forum in which someone wrote of bears being constipated and in a bad mood after eating them. Huckleberries (whatever they are), okra and artichokes also contain solanine.

    Getting back to fasting and here's a (Christian-oriented) fasting forum that you might like to consult - it's also a topic that regularly comes up at raw food boards:

    http://freedomyou.com/phpBB2/index.php

  18. #118
    [LMNOP] ellaminnowpea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote cVC
    Hi. I recall that you've been suffering from chronic fatigue and, if I remember correctly, arthritis, and one thing you might want to experiment with going without for a while is food from the deadly nightshade family - tomatoes, peppers, potatoes (although not sweet potatoes), eggplants (or aubergines as we call them over here) and also, as I've discovered fairly recently, goji berries. There's some information about the nightshades at the page linked below and from which this is an extract
    Quote cVC
    Thanks! You remember almost correctly. I have tried an anti-inflammatory diet, which is avoiding foods from the nightshade family (amongst other htings). It hasn't helped. I don't have arthritis... just painful joints. They assume the joint issue is related to the *possible* CFS... though, I am weary of doctors and have not pursued testing in the new year. I also try to avoid wheat for the IBS-like symptoms...


    About the fasting, I'd also like to add that I've been really sick this weekend w/ sinus problems and digestive issues added on top of that: nausea all day, then IBS type issues. I tend to get bad digestive issues after eating protein-rich foods, and have to take a prescription enzyme solution with meals (from my osteopath, for the past 7 years). This modified fast will be a way for me to determine if the 'symptoms' go away when I stick to juices. Hopefully, my digestion will be settled a little more and be less reactive.
    “I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship.” ~ Alcott

  19. #119
    cvC
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    Quote ellaminnowpea View Post
    I have tried an anti-inflammatory diet, which is avoiding foods from the nightshade family (amongst other htings). It hasn't helped.
    Am I also right in thinking that you might have gone gluten-free for a week in an attempt to deal with your condition? If it was you, then I remember thinking that this simply wasn't long enough for you to feel much of a change. If you do decide to go on such a diet again, then, as you probably know, you should be really strict about it as even a very small amount of gluten can provoke a reaction in someone sensitive to it. I don't know how long you went on the anti-inflammatory diet for, but here's something from a naturopath called Gloria Gilbere which suggests that three months without nightshades might be a time to aim for:

    I have many clients with gastrointestinal and inflammatory disorders who resist eliminating nightshades, even for an initial trial period of twelve weeks. Those who do, however, return to report the amazing improvement in symptoms of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, headaches, arthritis, gout, carpal tunnel, irritable bowel and scleroderma, to name a few—after all, the only thing you have to lose is your discomfort!
    http://www.gloriagilbere.com/?show=AboutNightshades
    (I linked the above page incorrectly in my previous post in this thread and which I've now amended)

    You have written of taking medications and might want to check if any of them are bound with potato starch.

  20. #120
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote ellaminnowpea View Post
    ...I suppose some of you are posting in response to my post...?
    I understand there are risks involved... and fundamentally, I don't think fasting is necessary. I know it can cause damage. But I still find something about fasting so alluring. I have gone 10 days without anything... so I'm thinking three-five days won't be too bad.

    I would really like to do it; but it'd be a modified fast. I am NOT fasting on water. I'm doing a juice fast -- green juices and fruit juices. And brewed plain tea for some warmth. The tough part will be transitioning back to solid, higher calorie foods.
    That's great news! But you should avoid sugar at all costs, sugar is the enemy, even in the form of fruit juice.

    I've found that three day fasts are the most beneficial especially to westerners with western eating habits, three days is how long it takes the body to start digesting it's self . The body digesting it's self though is the heart of fasting and cleansing, this is when major cleansing takes place but after three days is when one should have extensive knowledge and experience. Good Luck ! Ten days is tough, you should have no problem with mini fasts.

  21. #121
    cobweb
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    cvC - you are either accidentally or deliberately misunderstanding my words as i said that most people i know who go raw and/or fast are thin or have an eating disorder -
    i meant that they are thin or have an E.D when they *start* fasting or going raw, not as a result of it! .

    I can definitely see the benefits of a a high raw diet, and, as i have stated, if i feel i need to have a bit of a cleanse myself i eat just fruit and veg for a few days and up my water intake.

    It's *my opinion* that witholding food and water can be harmful, and that people go 'beyond' hunger eventually which might make them feel strangely satisfied.

    No one will ever convince ME otherwise. That is my personal opinion. Yes, i could do with losing weight, i have also had an E.D myself, and done the raw thing .

  22. #122
    cvC
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    Quote cobweb View Post
    i meant that they are thin or have an E.D when they *start* fasting or going raw, not as a result of it!
    Okay, acknowledged and understood.

  23. #123
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote cobweb View Post
    i kind of agree, Mahk.

    i enjoy Yoga but i accept i have limitations, i'm a westerner with a less than perfect diet and lifestyle. If i tried to emulate some lifelong yogis i would end up seriously harming myself.

    also, IF i wanted to 'cleanse' my body i would want to drink gallons of pure water, i certainly wouldn't limit my water intake

    Personally I'm setting the bar higher than westerner with a less than perfect diet.

    The west, home of diabetes and heart disease.

    Additionally macrobiotics suggests that humans should get all of their water from food intake unless under high workload conditions. They further suggest that anything other than that is bad for the heart.

    Although I'm really not trying to argue the point with you ( I respect all vegans, you included) I suggest to you that some people are not content with living the life of an over consuming westerner, me included. So to blanketly dismiss other forms of life and health, with what appears to be zero facts is offensive at best but a great western attribute.

    Again not trying to flame the fire, your free to live your life as you see fit.

  24. #124
    hgpns
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Most mammals lose their appetite and seek a fresh water source to rest near when they are sick (from toxins or otherwise). I don't have a doubt in my mind about the great benefits of fasting during illnesses.

    Despite most modernly civilized people being disconnected from such instincts, there must a be a reason all those much less fed animals undergo this instinct. I theorize that our stomachs are partially numb from lifelong abuse, but I'm not completely sure. Perhaps this is a situation when taking a cue from nature would advance our health.

    As for other fasting reasons, I think it's too largely contextual or individualized to really say. Some people might have the nutrient reserves necessary to fast healthily. Others might not. It's difficult to say as we are the only species that has no clue what it ought to be eating.

  25. #125
    snivelingchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    For the most part, I think fasting is unnecessary, and anything long-term can be dangerous. Of course it can be done, and people can function on it, but that does not the sign of a healthy lifestyle it make.

    I think that going without food for most of a day (like up to 16 hours) is perfectly natural, especially when you have the flu or something, because I've had plenty of times when my body just doesn't get hungry or crave anything (aside from water, which should always be plentiful) for periods of time, most often when I have an infection. When I do eat during these times when I'm not hungry, I notice my digestions is usually slowed and my meal seems "heavy." This seems like a very natural thing that might happen to food gathering societies.

    Fruit juice is never a healthy thing to base a diet on. I always say that if you want to do a fruit/vegetable cleanse, you should just eat the whole food. Juicing gets rid of important juices and fiber, leaving you with the oxidized sugar. Not a good thing.

    I definitely believe there is a place for fasting. I've read accounts of naturopathic doctors (yes doctors, not the people that claim to be) healing many conditions that were caused by some toxin being overloaded in the bodies tissues. (I know some people hate that term, but this can be an actual harmful substance from accidental exposure, or even wheat to someone who is very allergic. I know someone whose brother was diagnosed with Tourette's, which went away after a cleanse and cutting out wheat. Occasionally, when he is given small amounts of wheat as a treat, his tics come back)

    I think a complete fasting from food should be done under advise of a doctor, for a specific condition. I also think a healthy person should not cleanse. There is no need for it, so it is unnecessary risk, even if the rick is slight. Unnecessary risk is never wanted.

    I get really annoyed at work when people want a "complete" cleanse, and when I ask them what for, they say to be cleansed. I always ask if they have any symptoms, and they say no. If you are 100% happy with your health, then why are you doing a cleanse?

    I won't blame people who cleanse for that euphoric feeling that they feel during. They call it a spiritual experience. I wouldn't say that, but it certainly (like every experience) can have potential for personal growth. I'm sure a cleanse, for a perfectly healthy person, won't hurt their body any more than a night of heavy drinking, which most people do a few times in their life, so I can't get too outraged over that. It's their body and their lives.

  26. #126
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    ^ yes, basically i agree with the above post by sniv, and even though i do disagree with lengthy fasting of course it's up to the individual.

  27. #127
    Vegan_Steven
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    Even the need to eat everyday is a modern and European phenomena meaning hunter gathers routinely went days with out eating for thousands of years and our modern societies believe it is a matter of survival to eat three large meals everyday which is not the case. So based on the evolutionary scale and the fact that our modern societies are hundreds of years old as compared to hunter gatherer societies that are thousands of years old we can come to the conclusion that our bodies are modeled after our hunter gatherer ancestors and highly geared to go days without food and probably function better doing so. Additional evidence of this is our obese populations who's bodies are obviously geared to store as much nutrition as possible for periods when food is scarce, a hunter gatherer function their bodies obtained through thousands of years of evolution. Honestly to hear westerners complain that we're entitled to, deserve and are expected to eat large amounts of food everyday is laughable at best. additionally knee jerk responses claiming going a few days with out food is unhealthy are the result of a good modern day western civilization brain washing.

    That's all you have to do is look at the hard facts, the USA has the largest obese population in the world, bar none, the amount of Americans with type 2 diabetes is second to no other nation, heart disease caused by over consumption of food and lack of exercise is the number one killer of Americans here's the proof http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Health/04-01-05killer.htm. To then listen to a westerner say that not eating is unhealthy is simply foolish.

    I suggest everyone who thinks fasting is unhealthy read at least one book on the subject if not several, before posting their non accredited oppinons. I love you guys but I just can't discuss this subject anymore in this thread and this will be my last post on the subject. Good luck to all of you whether you fast or not. Fasting is a great institution.

  28. #128
    Mahk
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    It's my belief that fasting regimens (and also fad diets ) induce obesity, longterm, that is. The body's metabolism yo-yos in the rebound and actually puts on more fat after the end of the fast. It is counter productive for those who's goal is weight loss.

    For those who seek to rid the body of the "evil toxins", there's no way to prove them wrong since none of them are willing to name what specific toxin(s) they are expelling. As soon as they do ["It's aluminum, Mahk"] science can then test them and expose that their aluminum, or whatever, content is exactly the same and unchanged, after the fast.

    The body already has an excellent mechanism to remove the real toxins from the system, 24/7, by way of the skin, the lungs, the kidneys, the liver etc.. Our bodily waste, i.e. perspiration, exhaled breath, urine, and feces contain the real toxins and thinking that any form of:

    A) water deprivation
    B) food deprivation
    C) sleep deprivation or
    D) oxygen deprivation

    contributes to these in any way seems to be complete nonsense in my opinion and I've never seen any scientific evidence that contradicts this.

    Sure, if you live a lifestyle where your air, food, and/or water is contaminated (say for example with 2nd hand cigarette smoke or you drink excessive alcohol), in a sense if you stop breathing, etc, for a short time or stop drinking, etc. you will have reduced your intake, so your toxin level will decline temporarily, but as soon as you go back to your normal breathing or drinking again you are then back to square one! No gain.

    The obvious solution is to purify your intake, not stop your intake.
    --------

    Infomercials and "I saw god" anecdotal testimonies espousing the virtues of fasting don't sway me, I need scientific studies. The fact that one can find proponents of each of these forms of deprivations (A,B,C,D) means nothing to me, personally, but then again I don't believe in god either and we're supposed to just take that on faith with zero evidence as well.

    Just my opinion, everyone, don't anyone take any personal offense.

  29. #129

    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post

    That's all you have to do is look at the hard facts, the USA has the largest obese population in the world, bar none, the amount of Americans with type 2 diabetes is second to no other nation, heart disease caused by over consumption of food and lack of exercise is the number one killer of Americans here's the proof http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Health/04-01-05killer.htm. To then listen to a westerner say that not eating is unhealthy is simply foolish.

    I suggest everyone who thinks fasting is unhealthy read at least one book on the subject if not several, before posting their non accredited oppinons. I love you guys but I just can't discuss this subject anymore in this thread and this will be my last post on the subject. Good luck to all of you whether you fast or not. Fasting is a great institution.
    (emphasis added).

    Bingo.

    The solution to over-eating and sedentary lifestyles is not to stop eating for periods of time to "make up" for an over-consuming lifestyle, but to eat smaller portions throughout the day to reduce overall intake, and exercise more (this can be taken to whatever extent is practical, whether it's three smaller meals and healthy snacks in between, or some people like to have nine or so small meals throughout the day). This is generally accepted to be a healthy thing, and certainly is much more sustainable in the long-term than fasting.

  30. #130
    cobweb
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    this thread makes me feel tired...........i'll stick to my opinion and let others get on with their fasting, but i just wanted to add one thing -

    people often say 'well animals naturally fast when they are ill'
    in my opinion and experience this is a trait most often found in wild animals, sometimes also found in 'pets', but going back to their wild ancestors. It's nature taking over, usually sick animals die (without human intervention), so this is them shutting down in preparation for death.

    Finished now, nobody will ever convince me to fast but of course it is each to their own .

  31. #131
    snivelingchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post
    I suggest everyone who thinks fasting is unhealthy read at least one book on the subject if not several, before posting their non accredited oppinons.
    I don't care if someone has opinions different than mine, but you just insinuated that you're the only one educated on the manner. For the past 5 years, I've done research on alternative medicine and therapies, and nutrition. I've worked in health food stores for the past 4 years, read at least 20 books specifically on fasting, and done research by myself and for many, many customers.

    I've also heard testimonials from my own customers of every type of diet and or fast there is. Not that this is substantial evidence in the least, but I'm more familiar to people's EXPERIENCES with fasting that most. My opinion has been formed with what I've learned over the past 5 years, and YES I used to believe 100% in all forms of fasting, so I in no way started a cynic.

    I'm not saying all forms of fasting are horribly unhealthy. As far as the majority of people that fast, I doubt they are causing any long-term ill effects. I still don't think it is the ideal for most healthy people in most cases.

  32. #132

    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote snivelingchild View Post
    I'm not saying all forms of fasting are horribly unhealthy. As far as the majority of people that fast, I doubt they are causing any long-term ill effects.
    ^Exactly. I do 13-hour fasts nightly.

  33. #133
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    ^ ha!

  34. #134
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    I wonder if fasting is a form of modern day self flagellation, for some; they see it as a way to absolve their sins and eliminate or at least reduce their guilt by hurting themselves and/or enduring pain. This odd ritual is still performed in many parts of the world to this day including the Philippines and Latin America and often has religious constructs including a very odd one called "Christianity".

    I also wonder if fasting is along the lines of young teenage girls (mostly) who engage in self mutilation or cutting? It gives them a sense of power and control in some sense, I guess.

    I'd think practitioners using fasting in this manner of course can't admit this, even to themselves, so they rationalize that these rituals "releases the demons", um, erm, sorry, wrong century, I meant "toxins".

  35. #135
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    I think starting a regular exercise routine that makes you brake a good sweat, drinking lots of water, and including more whole foods in your diet do a lot more to "purify" the body than a few days of fasting will ever do. And if you stick with it, you'll be detoxifying for the rest of your life!

    As for weight-loss; eating less and exercise more always worked for me. I lost 20 Ibs at one point doing just that.
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

  36. #136

    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    I also wonder if fasting is along the lines of young teenage girls (mostly) who engage in self mutilation or cutting? It gives them a sense of power and control in some sense, I guess.
    Yeah, it reminds me of when I was going through the worst time in my life and I would skip lunch and when at night time I would feel hungrier I would feel more connected or "alive", and I knew it then it was because I was feeling less detached. But I justified to continue doing it because I was overweight anyway (as if that would be the healthy way to lose weight - not). A few years later I was horrified to read that anorexics and others with EDs often have similar patterns of thought, though it was understandable given the stress at the time (though still not a reason to justify continuing to do it, though fortunately I only did it for two short times when under a lot of stress).

    Maybe (some) other people, under normal or borderline-overload levels of stress that keep building, may have the tendency to want to purify or somehow otherwise strengthen this "connection", but since the build-up of stress from the everyday life is gradual for the most part that the impulse to withhold food only develops sporadically rather than as a constant struggle?

  37. #137
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    I think you might be right about that, too, Mahk, the guilt and control pattern looks familiar.
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

  38. #138
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    LMNOP:
    Check this out for painful joints. It might have helped me? She at least seems to make good sense.
    http://www.ctds.info/

    This site partially contributed to my thought that hey, certain vitamins and minerals and hormone functions that rely on calories um...CLEANSE the body.

    cvC:

    I appreciate that you quoted the Bible. I am a Christian myself. Perhaps the Lord does intend us to fast for spiritual reasons. I've heard of people fasting waiting for God's answer to their prayer. I can see where some people have results from that.
    For me, in overcoming my e.d. and religious ocd, I figure God made us out of the earth.* Our bodies, right now, are complex a combination of elements. Things that we ingest cause chemical reactions that are vital to our very existence.

    *Yeah He could have made us spiritual being with no earthly bodies, but He didn't. He made us so that if we don't eat, we die. If we ingest too much mercury, deprive ourselves of oxygen, sleep etc, it will have serious consequences on our bodies.
    There is an allure that fasting will detach you from your earthly body, and therefore sin... I can dig that. But to fully detach from your earthly body, that's death. And that is just how He made us.
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

  39. #139
    cvC
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Quote Haniska View Post
    Yeah He could have made us spiritual being with no earthly bodies, but He didn't. He made us so that if we don't eat, we die.
    Have you heard of dualism, Haniska? It's not something I have a perfect understanding of, but which I do understand to basically be the idea that while we and all living beings have a spark of the divine nature in us, the world in which we live and all that is created in it is the work of the devil. The Cathars were dualists and I understand that there might even have been a belief among them that the Old Testament or at least parts of it were created by the devil. I'm wary of what I read about the Cathars - a lot of it comes down to us through their enemies - and find it difficult to believe that the Book of Psalms falls into that category, but here is a quotation from Jesus that has certainly made me wonder:

    All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...r=10&version=9

    The description of "this present evil world" in the chapter from Galations linked below has helped to open my mind to the possibility of dualism in general being a valid doctrine:

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...er=1&version=9

    I've read that the Cathars fasted on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays and also of a practice that may have existed among them of something called the Endura. There's a short page about this at the link below and in which believers are described as perhaps starving themselves to death in the face of terminal illness or an expectation of falling into the hands of the Inquisition. I do consider suicide to be a sin, but although I know that I'm getting into tricky territory here, am not personally sure that simply not sustaining oneself falls into the category. The passage linked below does also suggest that the allegation of suicide has been talked up by those wishing to attack the Cathars:

    http://www.cathar.info/12011005_endura.htm

    This is an incomplete response to your post, but I don't really feel like writing any more for the moment.

  40. #140
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    Default Re: Fasting: what are your thoughts?

    Firstly, I dont believe I need to provide scientific information on fasting... I have already said that I know its not neceessary and I don't tell other people to do it. I have done it before and do enjoy the benefits I get from fasting.

    Secondly, I'm not doing it "cleanse" or "get rid of toxins" or lose weight. My last post made it clear that I'm doing it for a few days to help with my digestive problems. I wont really explain it again

    And thanks, Haniska
    “I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship.” ~ Alcott

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