Fasting: what are your thoughts?

[ellaminnowpea]

good luck and keep us updated!

[Noogle]

Good idea on the hempseed oil! Yeah my biggest challenge will be juicing whilst I work. I live 15 minutes away so I could either go home every lunch and juice [which I probably will] or get lots of lemons on the go.

I'll let you know how it goes! I'm currently in my 'preparation' phase, no processed foods, alcohol, caffeine, salt or sugar until Tuesday and eating less and less. I think it's harder. :P

[Noogle]

http://stupidgirlprojects.blogspot.com/

My fasting blog ^

[JC]

uugh i hate fasting, it makes me feel so tired and dizzy.
tomorrow will be the third day of my water fast. i shouldn't really be on the forum now, coz reading about what people are eating makes me hungry, lol. aren't you supposed to get like an energy boost or something at around the 4th day?

[heat13]

I usually feel better after the first 2 or 3 days JC. Are you doing just lemon water? Good luck

[JC]

Thanks, that's good to know i'm on water and green tea. what benefits do you find from doing it? and how long do you usually fast for?

[ivandurago]

I fasted a couple weeks ago for almost two days, and as a result I caught either a cold or flu... or both.
I was somewhat sick for a week straight.

I won't do it again, the only reason I was doing it was depression and a pooor body self image.

[heat13]

Thanks, that's good to know i'm on water and green tea. what benefits do you find from doing it? and how long do you usually fast for?

I don't really like the lemon water type fasts... But I love the fresh juice detox (I do the Juice Mater's 7 day plan from the book "7 lbs in 7 days" by Jason Vale). You get everything you need nutrition-wise from the juices and never feel hungry or anything. I found that when i was eating more sugar/salty type foods before, I would get minor headaches the first few days. But after that I felt better than ever- just energized and refreshed. I do it to give my digestive system a break... I love juicing as it is. So it isn't too hard for me... Especially if I keep busy Running/walking/yoga are also great during the juice fast bc I found I had more energy.

It is prob different for everyone though. But if anyone is interested in the recipes, I have many great juice recipes

[heat13]

I should add that the first time I did the 7 day plan was for my wedding and I did end up losing a significant amount of weight, but that wasn't the only benefit... it makes you feel better overall- not just apperance... but you feel happier, enegeric, refreshed. I didn't feel sick or weak or anything like that. If you read the book, there is more detail.

[ellaminnowpea]

Noogle, last update on your blog was February! How are you doing? DId the fast work out?

[snivelingchild]

It's called burden of proof and the 'burden of proof' lies with those that make the claim, it does not lie with others to disprove it.

It's called condescending. Thank you, I know what burden of proof is. However, burden of proof is required to make something official, i.e. in a court case to make someone pay money or be sentenced, or to make something a medicinal STANDARD. This is not about making fasting an accepted part of medical treatment. This is about something that people do themselves at home, much like taking supplements. Yes, it can be dangerous if you don't educate yourself, but that's your responsibility.

I would hate to see cheap, natural alternative medicinal treatments such as supplements and herbs taken out of the free market because some people will not take care of themselves. There are some risks and responsibilities inherent in life, such as diet. Not everyone educates themselves about diet, and many die because of it (Majority of the 3 leading causes of death maybe) but that doesn't mean we take away the right of people to plan their own diets.

Anyway, back on subject, this is a FORUM. We are here to express ourselves. Many people are interested and involved in fasting or cleansing. They should be able to express it here. Debate is fine, BUT if you want to debate, you should debate with facts (or as close as you can get to facts). The fasting thread this conversation started on was NOT A DEBATE. The people on it WERE NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE ANYONE THAT THEY ARE RIGHT. Thus, going on said thread to try and say that people were stupid for believing in what they are doing (or even trying it just to learn more about it) is just rude and uncalled for.

I am NOT here to argue for fasting. I have no conclusions on it. I mentioned some things I have read, in case anyone wanted a starting point on people who have researched fasting, but that is it. I was simply defending people's rights to discuss fasting on a forum without getting ridiculed.

Analogy time! If I felt like posting about the soy burger I ate, I should not be expected to post proof that soy is a healthy inclusion in a balanced diet. In the same vain, I would not expect someone to start a debate on soy in diet, especially in an attacking or even lighthearted sarcastic manner.

[Risker]

So does that mean I can start a thread on how bulimia worked for me and how it works for some people but others take it too far?

[snivelingchild]

Bulimia is not something people try for the sake of it, it is something that is done out of mental illness, where a person's perception of reality is different from it.

There are too many variants different for proper extrapolation. Pick a better example, and I'll answer.

[snivelingchild]

Sod it, I'll answer that one.

I take back what I said about not being able to comment on someone's actions if well deserved. HOWEVER, if people did start a bulimia thread of that sort, I would expect comments to be positive, non accusatory, supportive, and give reasons why not to be bulimic, rather than say "being bulimic is stupid, and I bet you can't prove why it's good."

[Risker]

Debate is fine, BUT if you want to debate, you should debate with facts (or as close as you can get to facts).

This is all I ask

The fasting thread this conversation started on was NOT A DEBATE. The people on it WERE NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE ANYONE THAT THEY ARE RIGHT. Thus, going on said thread to try and say that people were stupid for believing in what they are doing (or even trying it just to learn more about it) is just rude and uncalled for.

You can't just say that a thread is not up for debate and expect it to stay that way... This stuff isn't a private conversation, starving yourself and then reporting the 'improvements' IS encouraging people to do the same

[snivelingchild]

I agree on the debate thing, see last post. I do think, however, that asking to have separate debate and discussion threads is a reasonable request.

Not all fasting is starvation. Most forms of fasting include eating somethings, and can include the same amount of calories and nutrition as a regular diet. I don't think the thread was specifically encouraging, or if it was, it was not intentional. If it included saying that people should do X activity, then I would consider it intentional encouragement.

[Tigerlily]

I've been spending some time on a raw foods online community and reading up on raw foods. I've read a little more on the subject and I've changed my opinion.

There's a loosely organized fast going on tomorrow, where from there are going to be participating in a 24 hour water fast. I think I'm going to try to join in! I just want to see how long I can last.

It's only 24 hours, so my body isn't going to enter 'starvation mode' or deplete minerals and vitamins or eat away at my muscles for nutrition. I'm not doing it for weight loss either. I'm just trying it to see what it does to me and what will happen.

[Mahk]

So does that mean I can start a thread on how bulimia worked for me and how it works for some people but others take it too far?

That's an excellent analogy, Risker. Spot on. I had thought of a thread that advocates and promotes the benefits of occasional heroin use to boost artistic creativity, say, but I like your example much better.

On a side note did you know there really are pro-anorexia and pro- bulimia communities? I won't link to any of their sites, because I obviously don't want to support them in any way, but here is an article that discusses their existence.

This stuff isn't a private conversation, starving yourself and then reporting the 'improvements' IS encouraging people to do the same

Exactly.

[leafy]

fasting is not easy. first you need to deal with the fact that your body is without food. But on top of that, you will feel irritated, and very tired, you might have a REALLY bad headache because of all the toxins coming out their hiding places. you might get really bad breath, bad stuff in your mouth, you might even start to smell weird, and maybe even get yellow eyes if you got a bad liver getting rid of the bad stuff.

[Risker]

fasting is not easy. first you need to deal with the fact that your body is without food. But on top of that, you will feel irritated, and very tired, you might have a REALLY bad headache because of all the toxins coming out their hiding places. you might get really bad breath, bad stuff in your mouth, you might even start to smell weird, and maybe even get yellow eyes if you got a bad liver getting rid of the bad stuff.

I have to ask again, what toxins?

[cobweb]

i would say that all these strange symptoms probably come about because your body is breaking down muscle and your blood sugar levels are going haywire when you fast

[Mahk]

Agreed CW. Also a pasty mouth or bad breath could be caused by the fact that the three daily, several minutes each, ritual of food mastication and swallowing that it usually performs is failing to scrape clean the naturally occurring bacteria that coats one's mouth and tongue. They are normally used to being "sandblasted" every few hours and that has stopped.
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Oh my. Just now, while writing this post, I felt a toxin in my big toe dislodge himself, shoot up my leg and torso, narrowly evading my angry liver, and then fly down to the tip of my finger. My proof? There's dirt under my finger nail! Ah-ha, I got you now you little devil!

I'm not sure if these *ahem* "toxin removal tool" commercials air on TV internationally, but I thought this might be of interest to some.

[Quantum Mechanic]

fasting is not easy. first you need to deal with the fact that your body is without food. But on top of that, you will feel irritated, and very tired, you might have a REALLY bad headache because of all the toxins coming out their hiding places. you might get really bad breath, bad stuff in your mouth, you might even start to smell weird, and maybe even get yellow eyes if you got a bad liver getting rid of the bad stuff.

That sounds like a normal response to being without food, and there's no reason to assume that this reaction is due to the expulsion of unnamed toxins. While a short-term fast probably won't do long-term harm in an otherwise healthy person, I don't see any reason to believe that they promote good health. Though a juice fast would probably be better than a water fast, since your body would still be getting sugars. Do as you do, but that is how it looks.

[leafy]

well, about the toxin thing. There have been studies saying that people who start to take bid quantities of chlorella, which is well known to move out mercury and other toxins and heavy metall, have these symptons. without fasting.
I guess not everybody needs a fast, nor is ready mentally for a fast. Once you get over the "heavy days", you really, deeply understand that fasting is great for you, because you feel amazing... Only those who've been there know what i mean. You need to experience it for yourself. but as i said earlier, fasting is not for everbody

[Sarabi]

I am locked in the library with nothing to eat. I haven't really eaten in two days. I have a headache, though maybe it's because I can't sleep. I'm feeling a bit sick, which I rarely do. I don't feel like drinking water; I have to force myself. In middle school, I didn't eat sometimes and was never bothered about it physically. No symptoms as I recall... or at least I never noticed the symptoms until after a few days when I tried to work out and felt weak. So it's bizarre now I always experience intense symptoms when I go even a day.

[cobweb]

who locked you in there, Sarabi?

i used to be able to go without food but since go into my 30s i have been less and less able to do so, and, like you, i will shut down without it and not want water, either (and that will cause me headaches, as will not sleeping).

[Pearl]

My thoughts on fasting? DONT!!!!

[DiaShel]

I tried a couple weeks ago to do a water fast. So, I woke up, didn't eat, got about 3 hours and though I would die. So I ate.

[Haniska]

A word on *toxins*.
I know Dr. Drew treats them with derision, but I figure toxins are what is in your black heads, infections, bacteria, yeast overgrowth etc etc. You know, things that are bad for you. I don't think all naturalists consider them as this big voodoo thing? I mean, there *are* toxins or else they wouldn't have given my cousin activated charcoal last year. Actually, if there were no toxins, your liver would be out of a job.

[cobweb]

exactly - there are toxic substances in your system but that's what your liver and kidneys are there for, i just don't see that starving yourself for prolonged periods supports your body's needs.

[Mahk]

Urine, feces, sweat, and breath exhalation are all forms of toxin removal. They work round the clock 24/7 and do just fine on their own. Unless one has a diet of plutonium and arsenic, the concept of "maybe if I stop virtually all food/water/air intake the toxins will go away" is ridiculous. Your body needs fuel (food/water/oxygen) for all these filtration organs to work. Also most of these things you excrete are metabolites that were produced by your own body as part of its normal functioning, not things you consumed directly.

After 24 to 48hrs of fasting the body enters an unpleasant and slightly mind altering state called ketosis ("I saw god while fasting, and reached the third transcendence level of complete consciousness, and I could feel all the toxins marching out of my body. You should too") Since there is no fuel in the blood stream any more, it's been depleted, the body starts to eat away and dissolve its own fat and muscle tissue, including the most important muscle; the heart. This is why the majority of anorexics' deaths are due to heart failure.

[snivelingchild]

^Right. Under normal circumstances, fasting is unnecessary and puts stress on the body. It is only really applicable when someone has an environment that has something concentrated, or is sensitive to a substance. For instance, as I've mentioned before, I've done an herbal cleanse (not a fast) when I drank the water from my house's pipes which have a ton of heavy metals. Also, when an extreme food allergy is causing a condition (simple things like wheat allergies have been known to cause everything from fibromyalgia to Tourette's syndrome), a fast (done under the supervision of a doctor) can be done to rid the body of the substance that might still be stored in tissues, even though that person stopped eating it.

That's why we have medicine in the first place, because there will always be less than perfect circumstances that get people sick. However, that's not to say there are no benefits for someone doing a short-term fast themselves, as I've had plenty of customers (and my mom) who say they personally feel much better after a day of fasting. Whether this is because they normally eat something that exposes them to higher than normal levels of a substance (for instance, fasting makes them feel better because their normal diet is 90% twinkies), or simply because their bodies build up levels of a substance more than normal, its not for me to say.

[Roxy]

I tried a couple weeks ago to do a water fast. So, I woke up, didn't eat, got about 3 hours and though I would die. So I ate.

That sounds like something I would do!

[Sarabi]

Oh, thank gods that "fasting" is over! I actually got kicked out of the library and tried and failed to sleep in an outside elevator in freezing weather. Got frostnip. I didn't notice the hunger most of the while I was doing that... was too busy trying to keep my toes from freezing off. So that's it! If you want to fast, try sleeping in a freezing elevator.

Went to subway as soon as it opened... only other things open around here are KFC, Pizza Hut, Gellato's ice cream, and Taco Bell.

[Haniska]

I understand the concept that you could have things stored in your fat. Your body goes in to get the energy and breaks the toxins free in the process.
Is it true that our body stores toxins that it cannot deal with at that time?

[snivelingchild]

All sorts of chemicals are stored in all kinds of tissues in the body. If something were stored in fat cells (heavy metals and PCB's are examples), it is metabolized when those fat cells are burned for fuel.

[cobweb]

i understand the concept to a degree, but if i felt i needed to detox i would personally up my water intake, eat nothing but raw fruit and veg for a week, and have a few saunas.

[Mahk]

"Does fasting rid the body of toxins?

...The notion that you can somehow purge toxins for a few days and be done with it is for the birds...

The human body has its own highly evolved mechanisms for eliminating toxins that, under normal circumstances, you don't need to enhance with anything more elaborate than indoor plumbing and a good magazine. By the same token, if you're overtaxing your liver and kidneys, you don't need a water diet, you need to rethink your life. "

Source.

[Haniska]

Sniv,

I was thinking along the lines that a body which has a ready supply of fuel would never need to enter it's fat stores.

[ellaminnowpea]

If you don't supply your body with glucose, it will take the glycogen stores from your liver. After these stores are depleted, fat is oxidized for energy. Humans can live without food for long periods of time. Though, it's debatable how 'good' this is for our bodies. I won't go into the metabolic processes involved, but our brains need glucose and fatty acids to work properly. It is not debatable that cognitive and muscular competency is reduced when the body is deprived of glucose.

[Haniska]

How do we burn fat when exercising? Do we have to go through the whole 'get sugar from the liver thing' first?

[ellaminnowpea]

Basically, yes. Our glucose (either dietarily or stored) is used for energy. Exercise is just accelerated glucose utilization. When we exercise, our bodies require much more energy to keep our brain and muscles working. That's why we can "lose" fat when we exercise.

To summarize the metabolic processes:

1) Our body uses glucose first, glucagon (complex glucose molecule, storage form of glucose) secondly.
2) As our bodies use glucagon, certain cells in our bodies respond to the increased glucagon.
3) There is a series of enzymatic steps that activate a hormone. This hormone works on fat cells to breaks down stored fat.
4) Stored fat is broken down into four parts, three of which (triglycerides) diffuse out the fat cells and into the blood.
5) The triglycerides bind to proteins in our blood and are transported to other cells to be used for energy.

[Haniska]

Thanks LMNOP,

Sounds like you can rid yourself of *toxins* by exercising then, so long as you are not taking in more sugar than you burn.

[squigaletta]

Thanks LMNOP,

Sounds like you can rid yourself of *toxins* by exercising then, so long as you are not taking in more sugar than you burn.

i was wondering that. if the toxins are stored in the fat, if you lose weight, lose fat then they will be broken free anyway? obviously this only works if you have weight to lose but I would have thought that was much healthier

[Mahk]

When toxins are safely trapped in your fat cells they can't wreak havoc. It is only when the fat cells are burned that the toxins are then released into your blood stream where they then can do the damage they do by flowing throughout your body to the vital organs they choose to sabotage or cause cancer in. There's no such thing as "fat cell cancer". Your fat cells don't contribute to bodily functions like breathing, digesting, etc, and this is why a liposuction procedure to suck them out and discard them doesn't harm any bodily function.

Leave the toxins trapped safely in the fat cells alone!

[joke]

[Vegan_Steven]

I used to do 10-day fasts years ago, but now I'm just not into it. I also believe that to fast (and I mean water fasts, not taking fruit juices etc), it makes one put on weight, because although there is weight loss at the time, as soon as eating starts, the body grabs every single kilojoule in preparation for another famine!

So true which is why after the fast one should keep it simple.

I fast regularly and my method is to fast for three days, then eat substantial meals on the 4th day because doing so gets your metabolism back up to speed and actually helps you not grab every single carb, fat and nutritional molecule for the next step which is to then stick to small portions of boiled brown rice with steamed veggies for about a week (7 days) after and then start adding delicious vegan extras back to the meals.

Works great :smile:

[Mahk]

^You're not the Steven the vegan are you?

[YOUTUBE]hMpHF2a-IJY[/YOUTUBE]

[ellaminnowpea]

^You're not the Steven the vegan are you?

Hahahaha, hopefully!

EDIT: I think I'm starting a fast... or modified fast tomorrow. But haven't formulated the exact plan yet.

[Vegan_Steven]

No............................oops maybe I should have chosen a different user name, but I didn't know there was a Steven the Vegan, hopefully he's a good vegan.


Sorry Steven


Thanks, just watched the video and thought it was very funny.

[Vegan_Steven]

I won't go into the gory details but you can see the cleansing benefits of a fast while in the little white room with the echo.

I highly recommend fasting.