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Thread: Please Love Yourself

  1. #1
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    Default Please Love Yourself

    The past few weeks I've noticed a trend on this forum that represents a wider trend throughout society, and it upsets me.

    There are beautiful, wonderful, caring, compassionate vegans on here who even by just existing are making a positive impact on the world, and too many of them hate themselves because of ridiculous unnatainable ideas of beauty or success created by a media desperate to cripple everyone's self esteem to force them to seek solace in spending money.

    It upsets me that some lovely people on here choose to value themselves only by how they look in relation to a skinny unhealthy stereotype. Your body is an amazing thing, it deserves your care and respect. Don't starve it, don't stuff it, just feed it with healthy varied vegan foods, give it fresh air and exercise and revel in the fact you are alive. The rest will take care of itself, you will be the size you are meant to be. Focus on health not appearance or weight, focus on how lovely you are as a person. Your body will change and age as you grow older but you will alway be the wonderful person inside that body who people care about and treasure.

    Do things that make you happy, have a bath, go for a walk, spend time with people you care about, work towards your goals of studying or learning a new skill..make these the things that make you happy not whether you ate under 500 calories today or exercised until you passed out, because ultimately chasing the 'perfect' body doesn't make you happy it makes you miserable, you either starve your body to punish it and damage it or stuff yourself with food that isn't good for you. And even if you did reach that 'perfect' size then what? Get even smaller? Why not aim for goals that you'll feel truly proud to reach, that help you grow as a person not shrink as a body...learn something new, enter a race, work for a charity...

    I want this thread to inspire people to look inside themselves and see that there is a person in there that they love and care about. Maybe listing new goals, or things we like about ourselves would be helpful. There's too much pain and unhappiness in the world to not love ourselves, or at least begin to try to...

  2. #2
    BlackCats
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    That is a very positive post AMF.

    I have had lots of problems with my eating patterns and still feel absolutely enormous, even though I know I used to be 5 stone heavier than I am now. It doesn't help that there is so much focus on weight issues in our society.

    (This isn't really to do with weight but I feel proud of myself that I allowed my photo to be taken recently as I realised I haven't let anyone take my picture in 8 years, apart from in work situations where I was forced to. I feel silly that I have lost any documentation of those years.)

  3. #3
    Russ
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    Word.
    AMF this was actually exactly what I was saying when we were talking like two hours ago (though more articulate). Haha. I didn't realise you'd already made a thread about it.

    I have no particular reason to be on here, I was just curious as to what this post said. And I agree with Aphrodite. It's a very positive post I think that with attaining anything you need to be in a positive state of mind and realise that, whatever it is, it's not the only thing that's important by any stretch. There's plenty of things we can do that make us happy. Give yourself a break and spend some more time doing these things and honestly, you'll feel better and things will be easier to cope with. They won't seem quite so overbearing, and it won't seem so hard to change.

    That's my two cents. Coming from a guy who used to be a burnout depressive but is now content with life about 99% of the time.

    Aphrodite, I find it quite strange that you feel enormous, when I met you I could have sworn you are slim .. ? I think the thing about self-perception is, we're more likely to take on board the negative things said about us while brushing off the positive things, and it's easy to end up with a distorted perception of who we are. I'm not just talking about weight (it having not been an issue for me) but anything really.

  4. #4
    Beagle Hugger scarlett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I'm starting to like myself a little better, if not quite love yet After the years of being told I was ugly, evil, worthless, fat etc... I'm only just getting my head around the fact that I don't have to believe that and I can be happy without punishing myself and my body ! I was constantly compared to my super skinny "beautiful" sister by my mother and it did affect me quite badly.

    I've recently started to make a dent into my list of things I want to achieve/goals and it does make me proud and more confident when I achieve them. Also doing things that make me happy, even if they're only little things also really helps

  5. #5
    Why hello! xwitchymagicx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    .
    "It's not that people suddenly start breeding like rabbits; it's just that people stopped dropping like flies" - population explosion

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    Creative Raven HappyVegan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    This was beautiful AMF. One of the things I've learned through being sick for so long is that being healthy and energetic is so much more important than the way you look. In trying to recover, I've gone from wanting to lose weight to look better to wanting to lose weight so that I can hike more difficult trails and climb large rocks easier. We are such a loving group of people, I wish we could all extend that love to ourselves.

  7. #7
    sugarmouse
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    That is a great peice of writing AMF, and I do have a feeling it is aimed at me among others.
    I do love myself and I do know how lucky I am..I cannot explain my desire to be thin...

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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I would really reccommend 'Fat Is A Feminist Issue' to everyone. Beg, borrow or buy it cheap off Amazon, it is an amazing book. It really helped me examine my desires to be thin and the associations I had with it, and I've pretty much lost them thanks to the book.

  9. #9
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    I read a review of that Susie Orbach book in The Big Issue years ago and have never got around to reading it. It sounded really good. I might hunt for it.

    It's strange that women try to make themselves smaller and smaller, it's as if they feel that they do not deserve to be here.

  10. #10
    Why hello! xwitchymagicx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Maybe because that is what some women think the opposite sex wants...because of the magazines.

    Although if I was a bloke, I'd want a women that was there and not pretty much invisible with nothing to hold onto.
    "It's not that people suddenly start breeding like rabbits; it's just that people stopped dropping like flies" - population explosion

  11. #11
    sugarmouse
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    I have read fat is a feminist issue, but I read it for my studies not for leisure. I agree it is a great book, but it is a very feminism orientated book and I am not a feminist at all far from it.. so not sure if I can refer to it really. I really want to be thin again like I used to be.. it makes me happy to be thin.

  12. #12
    Russ
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    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    I would really reccommend 'Fat Is A Feminist Issue' to everyone.
    I have not read the book, nor am I aware of its conclusions, but the title seems to suggest that it is only women who could have an "issue" with their weight, and this "issue" is one of sexual oppression.
    I'll let you work out for yourself what I think about this. But in my opinion, "fat" is a human issue.

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    Quote sugarmouse View Post
    I have read fat is a feminist issue, but I read it for my studies not for leisure. I agree it is a great book, but it is a very feminism orientated book and I am not a feminist at all far from it.. so not sure if I can refer to it really. I really want to be thin again like I used to be.. it makes me happy to be thin.
    Me neither, I'm more of a everythingist. I don't really get what a feminist is anyway. lol
    "It's not that people suddenly start breeding like rabbits; it's just that people stopped dropping like flies" - population explosion

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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Wow AMF, very wise words. Nicely put!

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    hydrophilic tipsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    i go dancing.

    whenever i feel bad about my body for some stupid reason or another...

    it always makes me feel more confident.

    plus your burning energy and having a great time!

    dancing at the club, in my bedroom, on the street.

    sometimes it takes a couple of drinks, sometimes not... sometimes i dance with others, sometimes alone. but im always glad i did it!
    the aim of life is to live, and to live means to be aware, joyously, dunkenly, serenely, divinely aware.
    -henry miller

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    Goddess foxytina_69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    i used to dislike myself for many years, but over the last few months ive been focusing on purely loving myself, no matter what i weigh. and i really do love myself now. i was touching my body the other day just saying i love you to myself, because its so important to love yourself. i surround myself with positivity now, and do things for my health. i agree with happyvegan, you really do learn how to love yourself after being sick for so long. i do still want to lose weight though, but that doesnt mean i dont love myself. it can mean exactly the opposite actually.
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    For me, I feel more happy with myself and my body as I get older. I am truly happy with my body. I know that men find my attractive as I am and even more if I feel super confident.
    I know few men find very thin women attractive and that this is not something to aspire to. If I look in women's magazine's I see women who I do not want to look like. I especially don't like the very bony top of arms look that they have. I always wanted strong muscular shoulders and that is what I now have.
    If you take some time to look through porn magazines aimed at men or even things like FHM, you will see that the women there are much more varied in shape.
    I also think that I am finally getting a handle on what clothes suit me which has taken years! I now throw out clothes if I put them on and don't feel good in them.
    As for loing weight, as some of you know, I am a fitness professional and have dealt with many weight management clients. There are usually complex issues around this and much as I bang on about calories in and calories out, they are usually too stuck in their ways to change.
    My advice is pretty much as AMF, eat healthily, find exercise you truly enjoy, let go of your negative attitude towards yourself and allow yourself to have a great life.

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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    skinny unhealthy stereotype
    Quote cookey View Post
    very thin women
    Not that I feel that I have to defend thinness, but I wish you wouldn't use these phrases to mean what I assume is unhealthy, starving bodies. I think of myself as very thin, though I have a decent amount of muscle, many of the dancers I know have much more leaner, smaller muscles from being so flexible so they are even thinner than me. This includes one who has lupus and trouble gaining weight, but she still manages to be very healthy and beautiful. I know none of you are against a woman's natural body shape, but the general tone just seems a bit....icky to me, I don't know. With the amounts of anorexia and bulimia hitting us as a culture, are we coming to use the word "skinny" the way the word "fat" has been used in the past to denote a negative connotation?

    Not sure if my minds too clear right now from lack of sleep, but I hope that made enough sense.

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    Quote sugarmouse View Post
    I agree it is a great book, but it is a very feminism orientated book and I am not a feminist at all far from it.. so not sure if I can refer to it really. I really want to be thin again like I used to be.. it makes me happy to be thin.
    Which is exactly what the book deals with. Starving yourself does not equal happy. And as for not being feminist at all...can you elaborate? I presume you don't mean you want to give up the vote and have your life defined by men..or do you?

    Quote Russ
    I have not read the book, nor am I aware of its conclusions, but the title seems to suggest that it is only women who could have an "issue" with their weight, and this "issue" is one of sexual oppression.
    I'll let you work out for yourself what I think about this. But in my opinion, "fat" is a human issue.
    Well firstly perhaps it's best to judge the book after you read it rather than before
    And secondly the book does focus on women yes (it is quite old too, weight and body fascism are becoming unisex now) but it does not make out that men are the root cause of women's body issues, rather a damaging consumerist society and the mixed psychological messages you get growing up as a woman. The book encourages you to be happy with who you are, and trust your body to look after itself.

    Quote snivellingchild
    Not that I feel that I have to defend thinness, but I wish you wouldn't use these phrases to mean what I assume is unhealthy, starving bodies...
    I know none of you are against a woman's natural body shape, but the general tone just seems a bit....icky to me, I don't know. With the amounts of anorexia and bulimia hitting us as a culture, are we coming to use the word "skinny" the way the word "fat" has been used in the past to denote a negative connotation?
    Well being unhealthily thin rather than lean and lithe and healthy is negative, hence it being called unhealthy. I am not saying anyone who is naturally slim is wrong, everyone is meant to be a different shape. Indeed that's what I'm arguing - be the shape you are meant to be not bigger or smaller or whatever. What word/phrase do you suggest I use for someone very very thin?

  20. #20
    sugarmouse
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    [QUOTE=absentmindedfan;361778]Which is exactly what the book deals with. Starving yourself does not equal happy. And as for not being feminist at all...can you elaborate? I presume you don't mean you want to give up the vote and have your life defined by men..or do you?

    Being thin makes me happy. everyting feels better to me the thinner I get... I am still eating, just less than I was, I am still a size12.

    I am against most of feminism. I am not against men, as radical feminists are, nor am I against the way women are treated in society, as liberal feminists are, I am happy being a woman and I am happy to look up to men, as I want to be looked after by them. I guess that is an anti feminist way ofliving and thinking.

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    Quote sugarmouse View Post

    I am against most of feminism. I am not against men, as radical feminists are, nor am I against the way women are treated in society, as liberal feminists are, I am happy being a woman and I am happy to look up to men, as I want to be looked after by them. I guess that is an anti feminist way of living and thinking.
    I see. Feminism (esp. 3rd wave) isn't anti-men, nor is it against you wishing to have relationships with men and enter into equally fulfilling partnerships with them. But the key there is equal. I don't see why anyone would not want the sexes to be equal, to be able to discard the way gender can define someone's life and opportunities and just get on with being human.

  22. #22
    Russ
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    Quote absentmindedfan
    Well firstly perhaps it's best to judge the book after you read it rather than before
    That's why I said I don't know its conclusions and it seemed like this to me, from the title.

    And secondly the book does focus on women yes (it is quite old too, weight and body fascism are becoming unisex now) but it does not make out that men are the root cause of women's body issues, rather a damaging consumerist society and the mixed psychological messages you get growing up as a woman. The book encourages you to be happy with who you are, and trust your body to look after itself.
    That sounds like a positive book that is probably worth reading for a lot of people.

    Feminism (esp. 3rd wave) isn't anti-men
    Modern radical feminism seems to me to be extremely anti-men. It is so much more misandry than equality, focusing energy less on helping women than trying to make life that bit harder for men. I'm not just talking about the Scum manifesto lunatics, but actually more mainstream groups (still lunatics, but, acceptable ones). Example: the feminists at Stockholm University decided to dedicate their time to ... breaking through the glass ceiling? No, a War On Urinals. Apparently, standing up to pee is symbolic of women's oppression, and they want to stop all men from doing it. Urinals are now banned from campus, and this notion has spread through continental Europe (mainly Germany from what I have read). BS - they know full well it is not symbolic of anything. It's quick and convenient. Women dictating how men go to the bathroom is extremely invasive (not to mention disturbing, and absolutely none of their business) and is simply a case of "empowered females" scoring one over males. This is only one example of a much greater trend that is indicative of what feminism is turning into now that its original goals have, for the most part, been achieved.

    I could give many more examples too but this isn't the place, I just felt I had to call you out on the idea that feminism is not anti-men, because today it seems the greater part of feminists are.

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    Perhaps, but to me feminism is about equality not the anti-men crap that you describe above which doesn't do anyone any favours. 3rd wave is about defining feminism by yourself, it is what you make it. There's alot of cool DIY punk/crossover feminists using the net to spread the word. Sadly alot of them are drowned out by the fruitcakes you describe. However, saying feminism is anti-men is about as useful as saying Maoist rebels represent socialism - there are so many factions (and fractions of factions) that it's difficult to make a generalisation as to where the movement is going as a whole.

    It upsets me, because the more news-worthy anti-men stuff gets into the news and public consciousness 1000 times more than the feminist groups pushing for change all over the world for men and women.

  24. #24
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    I am a feminist and I am not anti-men. I think the world we live in is patriarchal and I for one wecome any small steps we can take, males and females, to rectify the imbalance. I do not think it is in male interest to maintain the status quo.

    The stereotype of feminists as being militant man-haters is one that I think has evolved as a reaction to a theory that upsets the majority (although females outnumber males I think in terms of population so maybe the dominant body would be a better term.)

    I suppose it is similar to the stereotype of vegans being militant fanatics who hate humans. I agree there must be some people that fit this description but I think it is a small minority.

    Anyway sorry ha ha.

    I agree snivellingchild with what you said about labelling very slim women as unhealthy. My friend was saying the other day that people make rude remarks to her because of her naturally slim figure and they assume (wrongly) that she has an eating disorder.

    I suppose if women/men are being labelled because of their body shape it doesn't matter if they are being told they are too fat or too slim - it is still a judgement.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote Aphrodite View Post
    I am a feminist and I am not anti-men. I think the world we live in is patriarchal and I for one wecome any small steps we can take, males and females, to rectify the imbalance. I do not think it is in male interest to maintain the status quo.
    I'm with you!

    I'm all for justice, as I think that "equalty" can be used as a tool of opression.

    3rd wave feminism is where it's at. Instead of smashing the glass ceiling, lets get rid of the institutions that recreate ceilings for men and women alike.

    Anyways... right on.
    context is everything

  26. #26
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    To me feminism is primarily about not making assumptions about people based on their sex, i.e. don't assume someone can't, shouldn't or won't want to do x because they're male/female.

    It should benefit both men and women I think - for example in the past it's been hard for men to give up work to look after their small children, whereas in fact some men want to do this more, and are better at it, than some women.

    I haven't come across the man-hating variety of feminist in a few decades though I'm sure there are some somewhere

  27. #27
    Russ
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    It seems that what you are (all since my post) describing - is on the same level as what I believe in, but I wouldn't call it feminism. Gender egalitarianism is a more fitting term.

    Quote xrodolfox
    Instead of smashing the glass ceiling, lets get rid of the institutions that recreate ceilings for men and women alike.
    Right on! But - why call it feminism? I don't mean that my concerns are purely on what we label it as, but I'd rather avoid any kind of association whatsoever with aforementioned anti-male fruitcakes / lunatics. The term "feminist" seems a little redundant now; it could, and does, mean people who are in favour of gender equality, and it can also mean the exact opposite (for example, Scum manifesto psychos). Thus, the term "anti-feminist" could even mean being in favour of gender equality by focusing on the inequalities and discrimination that men face (yes, they do actually exist) and opposing lunatics ...

    So this is why I would rather use the term "gender egalitarian". It says it simply and unequoivally; I support equal gender rights, without focusing any more on one than the other. Nothing questionable about it.

  28. #28
    Russ
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    Anyway uh ... I think I hijacked this thread, sorry AMF.

    Since we're all essentially on the same wavelength concerning gender equality ... let's get back to positive thinking and how people should be happy with who they are.. right?

  29. #29
    sugarmouse
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    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    I see. Feminism (esp. 3rd wave) isn't anti-men, nor is it against you wishing to have relationships with men and enter into equally fulfilling partnerships with them. But the key there is equal. I don't see why anyone would not want the sexes to be equal, to be able to discard the way gender can define someone's life and opportunities and just get on with being human.
    I love to embrace my gender, but I am not against some forms of patriarchal rule. In other cultures I agree women areoppressed in some forms, but I am content.
    I have read fat is a feminist issue a while ago, I studied feminism and wrote my thesis on the patriarchal culture behind pornography.. I am familiar with it.
    It does not stop me from wanting to be thin.. that is personal to me I guess.

  30. #30
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Quote Russ View Post
    Right on! But - why call it feminism?
    I'm not that bothered about what it's called, but in my case I call it feminism partly for historical reasons, and also because if you widen the scope to include the rest of the world and not just the affluent west then it a lot of places the inequality tends to be in favour of men, doesn't it? This is quite interesting: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...311740,00.html

    Even in Britain, it's arguable that (outside a limited circle) women get a bad deal. For example there is a lot of evidence that women who work outside the home spend far more time than men, on average, on housework. (In our household we solve this one by not doing any housework but it's not so easy when people have children)

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    Quote sugarmouse View Post
    I love to embrace my gender, but I am not against some forms of patriarchal rule.
    Why not?

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    I'm not bothered what you want to term it either. I have never studied feminism as such, I have just done some limited reading of my own eg: Friedan, Simone du Beauvoir, bell hooks, Atwood etc, I don't know if they are second or third wave feminists or whatever?

    I just have basically drawn my own conclusions about the world as I see it.

    I can see why the term "feminist" is misleading as it appears to be a movement exclusive of males, which I personally don't think it is.

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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    i dont think i would be considered a feminist. i 100% believe in equality, but i also see women as goddesses, amazing creatures really. like way back in one era of egyptian days when men looked upon women as goddess-like for being able to bleed for several days, not die, and then give life.

    i read this book when i was younger that really shaped my thoughts about myself. over the years ive had ups and downs about liking or disliking myself, but this book and what it said always stayed in the back of my mind and i think its great for all young girls to read. it really made me see myself as an amazing being and worthy of love and gentleness and healthy foods, etc. its a really uplifting and empowering book. i think im going to re-read it actually (some of the historical info is incorrect though)
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Thanks AMF, that's just what I needed to read right now
    here comes the sun

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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    Well being unhealthily thin rather than lean and lithe and healthy is negative, hence it being called unhealthy. I am not saying anyone who is naturally slim is wrong, everyone is meant to be a different shape. Indeed that's what I'm arguing - be the shape you are meant to be not bigger or smaller or whatever. What word/phrase do you suggest I use for someone very very thin?
    That's the thing, I know plenty of healthy very very thin people. I feel stupid for argueing terminology as I usually think it's stupid, but very very skinny doesn't mean unhealthy. I would rather say starved or emaciated to mean unhealthy. I simply dislike the association between skinny and unhealthy. Look at a tribesmen. Low amounts of fat on the body with lean muscle is natural. Cars, and cooked food, and sitting in front of a computer, and other things that bring the average weight up are not, and that's why it's nearly impossible to stay perfectly healthy with a modern life, but having extra fat is not a reason to dislike oneself. It's only "natural" to burn fewer calorie's than walking, foraging, farming, and non-machine assisted chores all day. In past days, we were all very thin. I just think you can't use the shape of a body (in such words) to display status of health. Since what you put (or don't put) into your body determines your state of health, only words that describe a body's medical state of conditions thereof (i.e. emaciated or starved respectively), I think, would be accurate.

    Sorry to give a speach on less than insanely-important nit pickyness, but I guess I am a stickler for linguistics after all.

  36. #36
    sugarmouse
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    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    Why not?

    I prefer to be looked after emotionally , physically and financially, by men.
    I am with foxytina that women are amazing, for our closeness to nature and our ability to reproduce, but I believe men are amazing too, for nobility and strength.
    I like men better than women as a rule, personality wise, I have always.
    I do think men are more capable at ruling that women are, for reasons related to our childgiving properties, and other, emotional and persona type reasons.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    OMG.

    I *hate* going off topic, but here I am, hijacking a wonderful thread. Ugh. Mods, please please split this thread.

    Here goes...
    Quote sugarmouse View Post

    I prefer to be looked after emotionally , physically and financially, by men.
    I am with foxytina that women are amazing, for our closeness to nature and our ability to reproduce, but I believe men are amazing too, for nobility and strength.
    I like men better than women as a rule, personality wise, I have always.
    I do think men are more capable at ruling that women are, for reasons related to our childgiving properties, and other, emotional and persona type reasons.
    I think that what you state is fine for you.

    When people talk about smashing patriarchy, they often mean "dismantling the current way men and women are forced to interact" and replacing that with more freedom.

    That means, that you could still behave the way you do, but the rest of us won't be forced to live a way in which we find puts limits on whom we really are.

    I frankly think that men and women are different. However, women shouldn't be forced to be men (in certain areas to gain success), and men shouldn't be emasculated if they want to do things in the realm of women (men are hardly found working professionally in early childcare because of the social roles pushed on men). I think each person should be able to be whom they need to be, and I think that each person should be given what they need to succeed, and men and women often have different needs.

    That's why instead of "equality", I think working for "justice" is more salient, and that's why even as a man, I think that working to dismantle patriarchy will give me freedom, as well as to my son, daughter, and wife.
    context is everything

  38. #38
    Russ
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote foxytina_69 View Post
    i also see women as goddesses, amazing creatures really.
    It's this kind of thinking that I was talking about.

    I have to break this to you, women are not "goddesses" any more than men are all John Rambo. Women are every bit as capable of being as stupid and clumsy and smelly and whatever else as men are. The statement that one sex are "amazing creatures" has on its flipside the implication that the other is not, and that's a clear value judgement that is far removed from sexual equality. It's only pro-female insofar as it is anti-male; misandrist sexism that's tied into the redrawing of female sexuality as something mysterious and unknowable. It's as much a notion created and disseminated by the media as the idea that all women need to be stick-thin, and it's one that should be opposed with just as much fury by "actual" feminists, gender egalitarians, or anyone who actually cares about what's true and what isn't.

    Quote harpy
    Even in Britain, it's arguable that (outside a limited circle) women get a bad deal.
    You're correct. Replace "women" with "men" and you're still correct.

    Quote xrodolfox
    I *hate* going off topic, but here I am, hijacking a wonderful thread.
    Hey, I started the hijacking (sort of. I feel some things need to be called out.)

    Mods, please please split this thread.
    I agree.

  39. #39
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote xrodolfox View Post
    OMG.

    I *hate* going off topic, but here I am, hijacking a wonderful thread. Ugh. Mods, please please split this thread.

    Here goes...


    I think that what you state is fine for you.

    When people talk about smashing patriarchy, they often mean "dismantling the current way men and women are forced to interact" and replacing that with more freedom.

    That means, that you could still behave the way you do, but the rest of us won't be forced to live a way in which we find puts limits on whom we really are.

    I frankly think that men and women are different. However, women shouldn't be forced to be men (in certain areas to gain success), and men shouldn't be emasculated if they want to do things in the realm of women (men are hardly found working professionally in early childcare because of the social roles pushed on men). I think each person should be able to be whom they need to be, and I think that each person should be given what they need to succeed, and men and women often have different needs.

    That's why instead of "equality", I think working for "justice" is more salient, and that's why even as a man, I think that working to dismantle patriarchy will give me freedom, as well as to my son, daughter, and wife.

    That is fine, I mean when I stated my views that you responded to, I was responding to AMF's question of whatI mean when I say I am not a feminist.I am not slating anyone who is, but I am happy with the way I think about the subject.

  40. #40
    Goddess foxytina_69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote Russ View Post
    I have to break this to you, women are not "goddesses" any more than men are all John Rambo. Women are every bit as capable of being as stupid and clumsy and smelly and whatever else as men are. The statement that one sex are "amazing creatures" has on its flipside the implication that the other is not, and that's a clear value judgement that is far removed from sexual equality. It's only pro-female insofar as it is anti-male; misandrist sexism that's tied into the redrawing of female sexuality as something mysterious and unknowable. It's as much a notion created and disseminated by the media as the idea that all women need to be stick-thin, and it's one that should be opposed with just as much fury by "actual" feminists, gender egalitarians, or anyone who actually cares about what's true and what isn't.
    russ, you looked into what i said too deeply. i think you misunderstood what i meant when i said when i said i thought women were goddesses.

    since we were talking about females and feminism, thats why i was talking about how my own feelings on feminism (and said i didnt think i was a feminist) i said women were like goddesses, yes, but my beliefs about males is that i think of all males as gods too. i guess i didnt think it was necessary to say how i felt about males, because i started talking about goddesses and that was meant in reponses to the thread being about loving yourself and i was trying to share my feelings about why women should love themselves because i was trying to say they are like goddesses. (i think i should have a put a period after saying i believed in 100% equality. not a comma, and THEN started talking about how i saw all women as goddesses. thats probably why you took it the way you did.

    i look up to a lot of men, and i think men are very intelligent and i look up to them for their strength.

    when i speak of gods/goddesses, i dont mean that every person is great. there are many people that are stupid and clumsy and smelly like you said. but thats not what makes a woman or man a god or goddess to me. i think all beings in this world are amazing creatures, and i think the human body is amazing and to me, that makes humans very god/goddess like. i meant nothing in relation to womens behavior or how they are as people.

    i would appreciate it if you could ask me what my views are on equality and males, before saying things that imply that you think i dont believe in equality and implied that you thought i thought women were better than men.

    i am very much different than that actually. i am extremely passionate about equality between men and women, and i have gotten into a lot of arguments/disagreements with people, friends AND family in real life over this topic. my boyfriend and i are very much about everything being 50/50 in our relationship and are adamant on keeping it that way.

    i assume you think im against men also in part of something i said a while back in the "how do you feel today" thread.

    you cant base who a person is and what their beliefs are based on a post i made whilst on a rant after getting into a fight with my boyfriend, because that is what that thread is there for. if you feel bad, your friends go there and give you support. (and if you didnt do that, than ignore this whole paragraph lol )

    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

  41. #41
    Goddess foxytina_69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote sugarmouse View Post

    I prefer to be looked after emotionally , physically and financially, by men.
    I am with foxytina that women are amazing, for our closeness to nature and our ability to reproduce, but I believe men are amazing too, for nobility and strength.
    I like men better than women as a rule, personality wise, I have always.
    I do think men are more capable at ruling that women are, for reasons related to our childgiving properties, and other, emotional and persona type reasons.
    im a lot like this in some ways.

    i really like being looked after emotionally and physically by my boyfriend. but financially we are 50/50 with everything.

    thats exactly how i feel about men too sugarmouse.

    i took get along better with males than with women, in real life.

    but i dont feel the same way about women ruling. and i dont think childgiving would have anything to do ith ruling, as most people that rule, their kids are grown up by then!
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

  42. #42
    Goddess foxytina_69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    oh and i think that all these posts should be moved too, to a feminism thread.
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

  43. #43
    Russ
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote foxytina_69
    i said women were like goddesses, yes, but my beliefs about males is that i think of all males as gods too.
    So we're all deities? Interesting way of viewing the world, I guess. It's certainly positive and in line with what this thread was originally about (I took it as being in response more to the feminism/egalitarianism topic that came up). Deity to me sort of implies eternal goodness, while I feel humans have potential to be amazing as you say, but also the potential to be incredibly evil. (Oh no, I think I've just steered the thread into some kind of third topic concerning human nature. )

    i would appreciate it if you could ask me what my views are on equality and males, before saying things that imply that you think i dont believe in equality and implied that you thought i thought women were better than men.
    Point taken. But I was also basing it on what you said recently in a different thread. Which you rightly guessed.

    you cant base who a person is and what their beliefs are based on a post i made whilst on a rant after getting into a fight with my boyfriend, because that is what that thread is there for.
    All right. The fact is it was pretty much an out of line comment regardless of how you were feeling. And I didn't bother looking at the thread again, but I did base my views on what you thought about men and women on that. Here's why; if I had a huge argument with my girlfriend or got dumped or whatever, I sure as hell wouldn't go onto a public forum and insult all (well actually you said "most", not "all") women for having limited intellectual capacity. Firstly, I know that that would be completely ridiculous and nonsensical, regardless of how pissed I was. Secondly, I'm all too aware that this would hurt a lot of peoples feelings and possibly damage their self-worth to be told something negative about themselves because of what they were born with. Thirdly, I'd probably get moderated and warned for sexist language (it seems to be less acceptable when it's about women). And fourth, everyone would think I'm a jerk (i.e. moreso.)

    But okay; I accept that it's not actually how you think. We can move on. Water under the bridge.

    oh and i think that all these posts should be moved too, to a feminism thread.
    Agreed!
    Though maybe we can steer it back on track now that everything else is basically cleared up.

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Well go on then, say something positive!


    I'm not good at doing this sort of thing but I started the thread so I should make a contribution. I am finally comfortable with my body now. I have the odd slip-up (my Mum's comments still have an effect) but other than that I like being me and I have happy with how I look. I am beginning to work on my personal issues and making some progress, which is pleasing because at one point I thought I'd never change.

  45. #45
    Russ
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    That is really great AMF. Seriously - I am really happy to hear this.

    Everyone has the potential to change how they are, or how they feel about themselves. Simply by keeping that in mind, you're halfway there already. No exaggeration. If you know in your heart that you can do something, you'll be able to do it.

    Was that good enough?

  46. #46
    Good sperm
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Yes

    And I can't believe nobody has posted something along the lines of 'Sure, I love myself. I love myself 3 times a day'

  47. #47
    BlackCats
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    That's funny - I was just thinking the title of this thread keeps making me giggle (it is open to other interpretations.)

  48. #48
    Windfall
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    This thread is lovely. I am just in a place where i cant take any of it in right now..

  49. #49
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote foxytina_69 View Post
    im a lot like this in some ways.

    i really like being looked after emotionally and physically by my boyfriend. but financially we are 50/50 with everything.

    thats exactly how i feel about men too sugarmouse.

    i took get along better with males than with women, in real life.

    but i dont feel the same way about women ruling. and i dont think childgiving would have anything to do ith ruling, as most people that rule, their kids are grown up by then!

    I Always thought you and I were similar in the way we approach relationships, just from how you speak of men and your relationship now.
    I do not think of myself as a gold digger, I do contribute financially but I am not 50%. When I am in relationships I expect the man to be the breadwinner.I am glad you are loving yourself more, AMF, I think you have a beautiful body, I would swap ! LolAlthough I think it is family comments that gt me down too.

  50. #50
    puffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I hate not being able to match my husbands pay. I used to earn more money than my husband but i had to give the job up to look after the kids and i only work part time now.
    Going back to the thread title, i think its wonderful when people can be happy with there body and feel content. I have never felt like that and i dont think i ever will. My husband accused me of having a warped body image, and maybe i have but i dont think it runs my life like it used to.

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