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Thread: Please Love Yourself

  1. #51

    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    Yes

    And I can't believe nobody has posted something along the lines of 'Sure, I love myself. I love myself 3 times a day'
    All comes back to Rollins' evening activities in the end absentmindedfan..
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  2. #52
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    Well go on then, say something positive!
    OK, I can do positive. I think I've always liked myself and had a strong self belief. I have been trying to work out why in case it helps some of you but no luck yet! I had a waver from this about 5 years ago but then I realised that just because I did a mean thing doesn't make me a bad person. That was a personality issue though, not a weight related one.
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  3. #53
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I have a huge problem liking myself, let alone loving myself . Sometimes i am horrible to other people because i think they cannot possibly like me if i don't like me and i think they are just being polite or something. I had a really turbulent relationship with my mum, everything about me shocked her, and still does to a point. She in turn did not get along with her mother, and my dad's mother walked out and left him 'home alone' when he was 3 years old, and never returned. We have a mother hang-up in my family, my husband was estranged from his mother for years before she died, aswell, he never got to say goodbye.

    I think the mother bond is really important for one's self-esteem. However, i constantly encourage my son and yet he still doubts himself sometimes and gets depressed. I think we are born with a personality and to some extent that determines how we deal with things. I deal with things by being hard on myself. I like myself a little more these days but i over-eat because i feel safe that way. I would love to get the spark back in me that would allow me to love myself and to care about my body enough to change it's shape back to a healthy one .

  4. #54
    RubyDuby
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I've come a long way with my body image. I'm happy now with my body as far as my weight, etc... but I was born with only half of my left arm and that's something that I'm not sure I will ever be comfortable with. There is nothing I can do about it so I really do try embrace my differentness. I had a prosthesis when I was 3 and again when I was 12, but the problem is I don't need it to function. Theres nothing I can't do and it just gets in the way.

    Cobweb said "Sometimes i am horrible to other people because i think they cannot possibly like me if i don't like me and i think they are just being polite or something."

    That is all too familiar. If a stranger smiles at me I get pissed... like what do they think they just did their good deed for the day or something?? It's terrible, I know, and I go through little phases where I'll force myself to smile at ppl... it never sticks though.

    I don't know if that was positive enough for this thread, but I tried
    Each snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty.

  5. #55
    cherished emmapresley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    it was positive enough

    we are all 'works in progress' i'm sure..

    i'm working my way up to properly posting in here..um..but not yet
    also AMF..it's a great thread to start..i smiled so much when i first saw it..TY
    ahronli sed ah dunit so thid tek thuh cheyus graytuh offa mi nihbles

  6. #56
    Why hello! xwitchymagicx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Sometimes you can't love yourself though...I mean, if I love myself too much, I won't be prepared to die will I?? No. All depends on certain things, as everyone is different!
    "It's not that people suddenly start breeding like rabbits; it's just that people stopped dropping like flies" - population explosion

  7. #57
    RubyDuby
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote xwitchymagicx View Post
    I mean, if I love myself too much, I won't be prepared to die will I?? No.
    what????
    Each snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote xwitchymagicx View Post
    Sometimes you can't love yourself though...I mean, if I love myself too much, I won't be prepared to die will I?? No.
    Prepared or not it's still going to happen so love yourself while you can

  9. #59
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I am all too familiar with folk who love themselves too much.( and I dont mean serial wa**ers before I get smartarse comments

  10. #60
    Why hello! xwitchymagicx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself



    None of you know what my future career will probably be...

    Ugh, I'm just putting others before myself, so it isn't a bad thing!

    I just accept myself...love is a strong word.

    "It's not that people suddenly start breeding like rabbits; it's just that people stopped dropping like flies" - population explosion

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I feel like I want someone to take care of me emotionally and physically as well, maybe more than I would them, but it certainly wouldn't be one sided and I would expect that from a man or woman. I wonder why all women aren't feminists because I believe that feminism is simply men = women. I don't believe in gender roles and there aren't always clear lines between gender. I just think that every man, woman, transgendered, or transexual people should be free to wear any clothing, do any job, be a relationship with anyone, and call themselves anything. (Plus, I think guys look hot in long skirts and platforms!)

    I think all of the above ties in to being able to love yourself, because sometimes society can make people feel like they shouldn't be able to love themselves unless they fit into all of society's roles.

  12. #62
    fortified twinkle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    well said, snivelingchild
    "If you don't have a song to sing you're okay, you know how to get along humming" Waltz (better than fine) - Fiona Apple

  13. #63
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote snivelingchild View Post
    I believe that feminism is simply men = women.
    If men are naturally masculine and women naturally feminine, then mascufemism or femuline (I think it'd have to be decided by a coin toss) would be a more appropriate word. I've met some really sexist men in my time, and some really sexist women - both sets of whom I think need some serious reflection. Unfortunately many of those sexist women I've met identify themselves as feminists (due to the linking of the words?) and would argue that feminism is not about equality, but some sort of (retarded) twisted female led backlash against men. I don't believe that masculinity is a bad trait to be surpressed (there are certainly people, including on this forum who think otherwise), just as I don't believe that femininity is. Everything (good) in balance.
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  14. #64
    Goddess foxytina_69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote snivelingchild View Post
    I believe that feminism is simply men = women. I don't believe in gender roles and there aren't always clear lines between gender. I just think that every man, woman, transgendered, or transexual people should be free to wear any clothing, do any job, be a relationship with anyone, and call themselves anything.
    this is EXACTLY how i feel.
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

  15. #65
    BlackCats
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Mr Flibble - when you wrote masculinity is not a "bad trait to be supressed" (sorry I am not computer literate enough to know how to quote on here)
    What did you mean by that, could you elaborate a bit more?

    Btw I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just wondered exactly what you mean.

    (Wow, this really is nothing to do with weight issues ha ha)

  16. #66
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote Aphrodite View Post
    (sorry I am not computer literate enough to know how to quote on here)
    )
    Click on the "quote" box at the bottom of each post, then edit out the bits you don't want. I think there's a sticky somewhere all about quotes. See this post.
    Last edited by RedWellies; Sep 19th, 2007 at 10:23 AM. Reason: found sticky
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  17. #67

    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    AMF great post. I don't generally have self-esteem issues anymore, thankfully, but I have to say that Aphrodite, AMF and Scarlett I think you are 3 of the prettiest people I have ever met and felt quite in your shadows when I met you!
    'Spring will soon pounce [like a floppy kitten]'. Whalespace.

  18. #68
    Russ
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote Mr Flibble View Post
    If men are naturally masculine and women naturally feminine, then mascufemism or femuline (I think it'd have to be decided by a coin toss) would be a more appropriate word. I've met some really sexist men in my time, and some really sexist women - both sets of whom I think need some serious reflection. Unfortunately many of those sexist women I've met identify themselves as feminists (due to the linking of the words?) and would argue that feminism is not about equality, but some sort of (retarded) twisted female led backlash against men. I don't believe that masculinity is a bad trait to be surpressed (there are certainly people, including on this forum who think otherwise), just as I don't believe that femininity is. Everything (good) in balance.
    I am with you on this, it seems today that femininity is something that is seen as "empowering" and yet masculinity is frowned upon (as males having power, or even males feeling good with themselves for being male, is linked to oppression, rape and what have you). Masculinity is the natural male state of behaviour and in opposing masculinity, feminists tacitly admit that they hate men. Why try to change something unless you're unhappy with it?

    I'm not sure, though, that the misandrists you've mentioned aren't "real feminists," as it were. It seems to me that ALL feminists focus on female-specific issues. Is that really appropriate in a society as gender-equal as ours? Is it appropriate when men now face very real discrimination in the legal system, the media, the workplace, (even the bathroom in some parts of continental Europe?) I don't think it is, any real theory of gender equality would not only take one sex into account while essentially ignoring the other (except to slander them as patriarchs).

    You can call me crazy, but I suggest that the reasona lot of women do not define themselves as feminists is because they actually like men.

  19. #69
    RubyDuby
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I like/dislike men and woman equally... depending on the individual.

    I don't really understand these sweeping statements about men... or women.

    "I like men because they're..."

    I don't know anybody who is exactly like anybody.
    I know some women who are more "masculine" than some men I know, and vice versa.

    I don't think that a man or woman would be better in powerful positions. I think it's embarassing that only white men have been in command of my country, only because I know that they were not always the best person for the job.

    and I get angry when I see things like a job I could easily do that says, "men preferred because of heavy lifting" when they're talking about 50lb dogs and bags of food that I easily maneuver on a daily basis. My old boss would not hire men. That pissed me off too.

    and I too, wish this were not on the "love yourself" thread...
    Each snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty.

  20. #70

    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote Russ View Post
    I am with you on this, it seems today that femininity is something that is seen as "empowering" and yet masculinity is frowned upon (as males having power, or even males feeling good with themselves for being male, is linked to oppression, rape and what have you). Masculinity is the natural male state of behaviour and in opposing masculinity, feminists tacitly admit that they hate men. Why try to change something unless you're unhappy with it?

    I'm not sure, though, that the misandrists you've mentioned aren't "real feminists," as it were. It seems to me that ALL feminists focus on female-specific issues. Is that really appropriate in a society as gender-equal as ours? Is it appropriate when men now face very real discrimination in the legal system, the media, the workplace, (even the bathroom in some parts of continental Europe?) I don't think it is, any real theory of gender equality would not only take one sex into account while essentially ignoring the other (except to slander them as patriarchs).

    You can call me crazy, but I suggest that the reasona lot of women do not define themselves as feminists is because they actually like men.
    I think you are confusing femininity and feminist - macsculinity and patriachy.

    I like to think I am both feminine and a feminist but feminine to me just means I am happy be a girl, happy with my sexuality. That I am a feminist is more to do with expecting equal pay, not agreeing with traditional role stereotypes. I don't see why women should always be assumed to be better or more likely to do secretarial work, or be houseslaves. Similarly a man can be at one with his masculinity but should still feel he could be a househusband or wear a dress and not be demeaned by these things. However, masculinity should not be confused with patriachy with assumes a man is somehow more worthy of a higher pay or excused from doing mundane chores.

    As for being physically masculine or feminine these are subjective. We all have our own preferances both for ourselves and for those we attracted to but as humanists we should not put our preferences above the feelings of others.

    Ultimately we are born with a particular type of body and there is a limit as to how much we or anyone else can affect our physiques. So for me I tend to look at how healthy I am as being the signpost to my physical aims, I try to focus more on being healthy rather than fitting into some idea of body perfection.

    Re feminsts. There is still a glass ceiling in the UK, there are still wifebeaters, there are still women treated as slaves. And this is an 'enlightened' country. There is still a place for feminists and plenty of battles to fight. This does not mean that there are not some battles for men to fight too (we girlies do have a greater choice of clothes to wear!). We are still a long way from being a equal society here or in any other country.
    'Spring will soon pounce [like a floppy kitten]'. Whalespace.

  21. #71
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote Aphrodite View Post
    What did you mean by that, could you elaborate a bit more?
    Sure. I've certainly spoken with people in the past who view feminine traits as being good and masculine traits being bad, to the point of suggesting that all bad things that have happened in the world (wars, meat eating, slavery etc) have been a direct result of masculine behaviour. To quote from this forum (from the Is it Politically Correct to Celebrate Masculinity thread, which I created in response to various comments in other threads by those who identified themselves as feminist but were far from pro sexual equality):

    Quote thecatspajamas1
    But to celebrate "masculinity" in this society means to celebrate aggressiveness, promiscuity, power, and not to mention other traits perceived as masculine such as meat-eating.
    Quote Aphrodite
    (Wow, this really is nothing to do with weight issues ha ha)
    I love myself, but that's another issue entirely
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  22. #72
    Russ
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote veganlinda View Post
    I think you are confusing femininity and feminist - macsculinity and patriachy.
    I'm not confusing anything. Much of feminism involves a celebration of simply being a woman; a celebration of the feminine form and femininity. I'm not sure which "wave" this would come under, maybe a feminist could enlighten us as to that.
    On the flipside, as Mr. Flibble just noted, many feminists like to blame men's natural behaviour - masculinity - for everything bad that has ever happened. So I'm not confusing anything, the notions of who you are in terms of gender is very closely linked to gender equality and inequality.

    Similarly a man can be at one with his masculinity but should still feel he could be a househusband or wear a dress and not be demeaned by these things.
    I don't really understand why a man would ever want to wear a dress (in fact, women seem to be much more keen on the idea than men themselves), but each to their own I guess.

    However, masculinity should not be confused with patriachy with assumes a man is somehow more worthy of a higher pay or excused from doing mundane chores.
    Yes, you see it that way, and I see it that way, but a lot of feminists don't see it that way.

    Re feminsts. There is still a glass ceiling in the UK, there are still wifebeaters, there are still women treated as slaves.
    Glass ceiling .. I've never heard a clear definition for this. Is it the idea that men today are still so sexist that they will not allow women into positions of power within firms, even though they have earned that place and it would thus make economical sense?
    I think it may be a case of inventing causality to explain facts about the world that just happen to have happened that way.
    Yes, there are still wifebeaters, there are also women who physically assault their (male) partners, and this is considered most socially acceptable. A woman slapping a man in the face for example, is a pretty frequent occurance, I'm sure. And like it or not, that's domestic violence. Actually, I'd be willing to bet there isn't any more violence against women by men than there is against men by women, today.
    Women treated as slaves? Except for those trapped in the sex trade (I don't think I even need to mention how truly vulgar that is), I find it hard to believe that any woman is treated as a slave. Historically, of course, it has been men who have been the carthorses, working in the mines or being drafted into the army to die in some foreign land. These notions of duty persist today.

    And this is an 'enlightened' country. There is still a place for feminists and plenty of battles to fight. This does not mean that there are not some battles for men to fight too (we girlies do have a greater choice of clothes to wear!). We are still a long way from being a equal society here or in any other country.
    Honestly, I couldn't care less about the "battle" to be able to wear dresses. I was referring more to the assumption of guilt in accusations of rape and sexual harassment, the fact that men often have to walk on eggshells around women concerning what they say while women are free to objectify and degrade men's bodies without any repercussions, the fact that male rape goes largely unreported and unnoticed, and as I have already mentioned, the issue of domestic violence against males (again, an unnoticed crime). To name but a few.

  23. #73
    RubyDuby
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    it's funny because there has been a rash of pro-masculinity to encourage meat-eating in marketing lately, it seems.

    Is it Chilis that has the men sitting in the booth raising their chosen carcass cuts in fork and deeply announcing, "Sausage!" etc. everybody looks at the "Broccoli!" guy like he's a fool.

    and the commercial where the guy buys a block of tofu so he has to balance this act by buying a hummer.

    and theres a fast food place that advertises their man's burger... carls jr or burger king?? idk.
    Last edited by RubyDuby; Sep 19th, 2007 at 05:26 PM. Reason: i dont know how this is relevent... :P
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  24. #74
    Russ
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Well, that's just marketing for you. Look at how they've used female sexuality to sell products for decades. Is that representative of female sexuality or femininity? No.

  25. #75
    RubyDuby
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I was actually responding to Mr. Flibble's "I've certainly spoken with people in the past who view feminine traits as being good and masculine traits being bad, to the point of suggesting that all bad things that have happened in the world (wars, meat eating, slavery etc) have been a direct result of masculine behaviour."
    but your reply beat mine.

    why so hostile?
    Each snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty.

  26. #76
    Russ
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Hostile? What was hostile about it?

    The problem with the written word is that you can't really tell how it's intended to come across. When people communicate face to face there are all kinds of clues (tone of voice, expression, etc.)

    It wasn't hostile in the slightest, I was just making a point.

    PS sorry you took it that way, I will take more care in future not to rush posts (as that one was) so they don't give the wrong impression
    Last edited by Russ; Sep 19th, 2007 at 06:02 PM. Reason: added the PS

  27. #77
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Cos he's a man?
    Last edited by RedWellies; Sep 19th, 2007 at 05:35 PM. Reason: that was a joke btw!
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  28. #78
    Russ
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself


  29. #79
    BlackCats
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    [quote=Russ;362931]
    I don't really understand why a man would ever want to wear a dress (in fact, women seem to be much more keen on the idea than men themselves), but each to their own I guess.

    (I found this funny for some reason.)
    Last edited by BlackCats; Sep 19th, 2007 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Argh why didn't it work!!!!

  30. #80
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Did you delete the quote makes Aphrodite? You need to delete in between them.

  31. #81

    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Oh man.

    I think that being a feminist is all about ALLOWING men to be fully masculine, instead of the overly simplified masculinity that patriarchy allows.

    "Feminist" who man bash and hate masculinity are "2nd wave" feminists... but there are differing views within feminism that fight that tendancy. Example: 3rd wave feminists like Bell Hooks, and some people here, etc.

    By forcing a definition of "feminism" that many of us feminists don't agree with is co-towing to the right-wing media juggernaut that seeks to befuddle any feminist progress by making organizing around the real issues of patriarchy more difficult.

    I certainly am happy to be a man. I certainly don't think that masculinity, in its complete expression, is a "bad" thing. But I do think that men in society are not allowed to be whole, and that is due to the patriarchal system that benefits as well as oppresses men (often both happen to the same man in difference scenarios). It is the same system that both oppresses and celebrates distincts parts of women. It is the same system that doesn't allow us to be whole.

    To me, to oppose that system is what it means to be a feminist. It is certainly not the way that I find feminism is defined by Rush Limbough, or by many others in this thread (which happen to be using a similiar definition).

    I'm sure that there are many old-school 2nd wave feminists out there (and in this board), but they certainly do not represent the whole movement.
    context is everything

  32. #82
    Russ
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    xrodolfox - interesting points, as always, especially this idea:

    Quote xrodolfox View Post
    It is the same system that both oppresses and celebrates distincts parts of women. It is the same system that doesn't allow us to be whole.
    I was not aware that what the difference between 2nd and 3rd wave feminists was, or that it was so clear-cut.

    I don't know if I'd consider myself politically close to Rush Limbaugh, if it's me you meant. Most, no ... all of what he's written that I've seen seems like ridiculous nonsense.
    I come at this subject from multiple perspectives, and have in this thread most likely underplayed my support for women's rights, and I suppose "3rd wave feminism" as you define it ... but that's only because I feel it is overplayed (RELATIVE to men's rights) pretty much everywhere else.

  33. #83
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    xrodolfox - I agree. This is like saying all Socialists are Maoists. It grossly misrepresents the views of a movement that is (IMO) positive and working for change in a good way by tarring them with the same brush as an overexposed minority who are more newsworthy.

    Yes I think the conviction rate for male rape is crap, but more women than men are raped and the conviction rate in the UK is 3%, mostly because the Govt. don't see it as a priority and judges think that if you wore anything other than a Nun's outfit and dared to leave the house you 'asked for it'. I think rape and domestic violence to both genders should have much more focus on it and more money put into dealing with it, indeed many people don't even consider men as rapeable by women. I also think that we should redefine the acceptability of some violence such as women slapping men round the face, and empower men to seek help in these violent relationships. Due to male bravado and other restrictive aspects of male gender roles most men in violent relationships don't feel they can seek help, I can quite imagine a man being laughed at for saying his wife hits him.

    However what I think is behind these restrictive gender roles is patriarchy itself - it has given men and women these restrictive roles and as a result we see women as weak and men as violent (both incorrect) and as such women not capable of rape and domestic violence and men as being 'pussies' if a woman hits them.

    I see feminism as what you make it (3rd wave) so I view it as a force for positive change to remove the gender/sexuality roles for everyone. It does focus mainly on women but I think that as more issues are dealt with and receive more publicity the movement will move from less female-focussed to more everyone-who's-being-screwed-with focus.

  34. #84
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    i think it's just the title which often turns people off - 'feminism' very much suggests a movement which is only concerned with the empowerment of females, rather than equality (imo).

    I used to have a friend who lived on the Faslane Peace Camp and she told me horror stories of feminists there who wouldn't even allow male dogs to enter their territory .

  35. #85

    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I'm all about focusing on justice even more than "equality".

    For example, boys (generally) perform better in certain types of education settings, and girls (with some exceptions) perform better in very different education settings. ex. boys do better in multi-sex schools while girls do better in same sex schools. I think that in the current education system, boys are getting lost, just as girl's multiple and complex identities are really marginalized.

    ... and that's just education.

    (I'm very loosely citing "Real Boys" and "Reviving Ophelia", a book about boys dealing with patriarchy, and the other a book about girls living in patriarchy, and the negative effects it has on boys and girls... while also acknowledging that boys aren't girls and girls aren't boys and each needs DIFFERENT things to do their best and to be whole.)

    In essence, I'm all about liberating men as well as women. I'm only marginally concerned about "equality", as what might be "equal" is not always what is "just". Grown working men certainly don't need lactation rooms, but grown women that are breastfeeding sure do. Grown women don't need quite the same things that men need either. Equality works great when talking about pay or comparing the "glass ceiling", but beyond that limited capacity, the idea of "equality" often strays from "justice".

    But that's my take on feminism. Like others have said, feminism has many forms, including ideas which I am diametrically opposed to. Just like there are Maoists and Leninists and Christian Socialists and Liberal Democrats who all share "socialist" views, but have vastly different ideas on what that means, even if most of them have at some level, some agreement. They may even work together, but they aren't the same.

    The reason I brought up Rush, is that he is one of the loudest and clearest voices obscuring critical thought about what feminism means and what it SHOULD be. Instead, he obfuscates, and that confusion is now the norm in society, even though most people would identify with "feminism" if they understood it as the current cutting edge of feminists define it. Sure, there are always some people who think that all boy dogs are evil, or that all of something or other is "evil", but they are analogous to the Trotskyists among the rest of the Left: perhaps they have a point, but to most of us, it's just rubbish. Just as Rush tries to portray even the most sane of the left as Stalinists waiting to send everyone to the gulags, feminism is very rarely interpreted to be about hating men or fathers or sons (or all those other people women love), but rather about addressing the institutions that truncate who we are, and whom we are allowed to be. Heck, some women benefit from patriarchy, but that still leaves the rest of us, men included, living less freely.
    context is everything

  36. #86
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    yes, good points, actually i don't believe in equality i suppose, but in equal respect and equal human rights.

  37. #87
    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote xwitchymagicx View Post
    Sometimes you can't love yourself though...I mean, if I love myself too much, I won't be prepared to die will I??
    I used to despise myself. It took me a long time to realise I had positive qualities, but the fact is I'm happier now as a result.

    Incidentally I did a lot of soul searching a few years ago and made peace with my life because I had so many regrets. Now I live the life I want to, and don't have any regrets. Consequently I feel that when it's my time to go, it's my time.

  38. #88
    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Quote absentmindedfan View Post
    However what I think is behind these restrictive gender roles is patriarchy itself - it has given men and women these restrictive roles and as a result we see women as weak and men as violent (both incorrect)


    as far as i am aware there are no current examples of matriarchal societies/civilizations, if i'm wrong please let me know someone? perhaps some of the small, remote tribal peoples of the world exercise this type of society???

    it would be interesting to see current examples of a matriarchal society but if there are none, i wonder how their societies were run/maintained? it would be impossible to know, i think, that matriarchical ways of doing things were different from patriarchal -so by discussing the current system and blaming it on 'patriarchy' - would it be a good idea to begin by looking at our own grass roots communities and even just neighbourhoods and see what we can do to change things there?

    we are all involved in the 'patriarchical' run society whether we like it or not - in my experience change starts from me and how i influence my surroundings.

    what would be the situation if our societies were not patriarchal?? i don't know. it would be conjecture surely, without a working model or current working system to comment that any other type of society, would manifest things any differently? folk probably turned their noses up at some aspects of ancient matriarchal societies???

    just some of my rambling thoughts for today - i'm off to dig in the garden

  39. #89
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I'll always love myself, for I am Posi.

    As for the ideals of body image, I'd like to quote an awesome Hardcore band called Have Heart, snippets of a song called "Armed with a Mind":

    caked up and faked up,
    she's obsessed with the outside.
    nothing earned, too afraid to fail.
    so she leads a hollow life void of insight
    loving what you see, but you fear what you think
    because of your mind and your body
    there's a missing fucking link
    that leaves you vulnerable, susceptible to pain
    you're a garden of potential submerged in the rain

    i said true beauty, cant be seen, with the eyes

  40. #90
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    thats beautiful pilaf
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

  41. #91

    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    Quote cedarblue View Post
    as far as i am aware there are no current examples of matriarchal societies/civilizations, if i'm wrong please let me know someone? perhaps some of the small, remote tribal peoples of the world exercise this type of society???
    As a feminist, I'm not working for Matriarchy, just I'm trying to dismantle patriarchy. I rather have a system where men and boys are valued and nourished, along with women and girls. I'm not a fan of a system that puts one gender above the other arbitrarily.

    I AM NOT Working towards a system where women rule, or where men rule.

    Fighting against the patriarchy MAY mean fighting for matriarchy, but those people are some seriously old-school feminists of a stripe I do not align with.

    I'm fighting for freedom, not a new boss.
    context is everything

  42. #92
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    A timely example from the F-Word.org, a third wave feminist blog/reviews site, of a feminist becoming enraged at the ridiculous gender roles and stereotypes surrounding sex. See Sept 20th entry here.

    The whole site is worth a read, not all of it I agree with (it is written by various contributors so it can be a pick and mix of argument at times) but it certainly gets you thinking about current issues and feminism.

  43. #93
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    I have read imaginative accounts of pre-historic matriarchies (Mary Renault's "The King Must Die" is a good one). It seems likely that they were about as exploitative and repressive as patriarchies. I don't see why we need to have any sort of -archy In an ideal world everyone will be able to do what can and want to do regardless of sex.

  44. #94
    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Quote harpy View Post
    I have read imaginative accounts of pre-historic matriarchies (Mary Renault's "The King Must Die" is a good one). It seems likely that they were about as exploitative and repressive as patriarchies. I don't see why we need to have any sort of -archy In an ideal world everyone will be able to do what can and want to do regardless of sex.
    i agree wholeheartedly harpy! - although is everyone doing what they can and want to do, anarchy

    ... although are humans by nature, able to live without any sort of -archy i wonder??

    i guess what i was trying to say, and you always think of a better way of putting things when you have posted already don't you? - is that how do you replace one -archy with another system or 'way'? - with everyone, or majority, building and establishing the new way collectively? is it possible? looking at the world divisions, i don't know.....

    interesting question i ask myself...

  45. #95
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Well, humans are arguably quite good at doing things co-operatively when they aren't beating, shooting or bombing hell out of each other - the ability to collaborate is supposed to be one of the secrets of our evolutionary success, if you can call it that. So perhaps it is possible.

    I wouldn't say what we have here in the UK is either a partriarchy or a matriarchy (apart from within certain communities or families). Power is unevenly distributed in other ways, of course.

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    AMF, nicely stated. This is exactly what I'm trying to do lately and I've been feeling so much better about myself the past few weeks. I've thrown out all the diets and am now just focusing on eating healthy vegan whole foods, listening to my body and what it wants, not thinking of any food as "bad" or "off limits" (except for animal products which is a whole different issue), and not worrying about how much I weigh. I know I'm healthier than I've ever been and that's what counts.

    Tam

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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    This thread is great, what a really good topic AMF, I think you are right too.

    I moan someimes, and sometimes i get down, but definatley as i get older i am feeling more confident and feeling more acceptance of who I am. I'm starting to value life more and more.

  48. #98
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    Quote xrodolfox View Post
    As a feminist, I'm not working for Matriarchy, just I'm trying to dismantle patriarchy. I rather have a system where men and boys are valued and nourished, along with women and girls. I'm not a fan of a system that puts one gender above the other arbitrarily.

    I AM NOT Working towards a system where women rule, or where men rule.

    Fighting against the patriarchy MAY mean fighting for matriarchy, but those people are some seriously old-school feminists of a stripe I do not align with.

    I'm fighting for freedom, not a new boss.
    A man after my own heart. With Corum we are totally 2 halves of the same coin and neither could ever be better valued than the other. Sadly I think that is quite rare in society as a whole where both sexes seem to be trying to get one up on each other.
    Silent but deadly :p

  49. #99
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    Default Re: Please Love Yourself

    I don't conform to gender stereotypes and neither does my partner in sex or life. I have male and female friends and all of us love and respect each other regardless of gender. There is no difference between us in my opinion other than the obvious biological ones. I'm a lesbian and I believe in equal rights for everyone, regardless of gender, race, sexuality etc etc. I think men are GREAT I'm just not sexually attracted to them and that's not something I can help unfortunately.

    However with loving myself, as I've written elsewhere, I just look at myself and think if I was another woman I would sooooo not do me. I'm not really overweight at all....I just don't like what I see. My gf is the same but I think she is sex on legs and she thinks that of me. Just goes to show we have distorted images of ourselves no matter what people say.
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  50. #100
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    Quote emzy1985 View Post
    Just goes to show we have distorted images of ourselves no matter what people say.
    Absolutely, and I think if you looked in the mirror and consistently thought 'DAYUM! I'd do me!' you'd be a bit self obsessed. However I think working to like yourself as a person is a hugely positive thing, almost viewing yourself as a close friend.

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