Mad Cow, Bird/Swine Flu, Foot and Mouth, E.coli, Salmonella, Ebola, Marburg...

[cobweb]

the things is though, if our respective governments choose to make something a 'big deal' then it is a big deal.
I booked a trip to Disneyland with my son around the start of the Iraq war and it was cancelled due to worries about French retaliation against the British due to the invasion.
Had it been up to me i would have gone right ahead with the holiday.
I also think its fair enough actually to have this new strain of flu highlighted by the media as it did kill 150+ people in Mexico and appears to be spreading rapidly and globally, though i don't appreciate all the enormous amount of hype.

[auryn23]

I apologise for having been facetious earlier - it seems from your post that you are genuinely quite frightened by this. I acknowledge that you have the right to feel whatever you feel, and I am not being dismissive of your feelings, but I find it quite hard to understand, because it seems rather disproportionate to the actual risk. I would like to understand your post better - do you think it's a good thing or not that cruises are cancelled and schools have been closed?

Your post seems to imply that these actions verify the panicky approach of the media. I acknowledge that my reading of your post may be wrong. To me the actions seem bizarre, and I cannot wrap my head around it really. My instinct is that the word "pandemic" is not well understood, and this is leading to a level of anxiety which is unwarranted. This in turn puts pressure on public bodies to be seen to be "doing something" - in this case, closing schools - which in turn reinforces the public perception that there is sufficient risk to life for schools to be shut. Would you agree?

As a comparison, are your schools generally shut if there are 'several' cases of seasonal flu (which kills around a quarter of a million people every year?). What are the levels of other transmissible diseases (e.g. isolated cases of measles, rubella, meningitis) in schools in Indiana, and are schools closed regularly for this? Would a cruise operator be required to cancel cruises if visiting an area with a spike in - for example - malaria? Or if only in the case of human-to-human diseases, would a cruise be cancelled if someone on the ship had had norovirus?

Interested to know your views.

OH NO! I am so sorry you took it that way!! I have a very dry sense of humor and am very sarcastic. And the post about the cruise was more to show how this craze has taken over, well, cruises and schools.

No, my actual view on this is amazement...we (in America, at least, can't speak for everywhere) (and am speaking about those representing the masses, not always individuals) step over the homeless and age children out of schools and orphanages without a second thought and turn away from countries where people die by hundreds every minute from starvation yet focus all of our energies on tiny issues that affect only a small number. And the only reason we focus on that is because it isn't something that can be blamed on the actual victim. Although we still found the victims to blame on this by it's very name.

No, again, I am sorry it was read that way. I enjoy talking about it because I enjoy all things sociological. And being a sociologist, I can find something sociological in just about everything! And I will repost the link I posted earlier. (and my utmost apologies for that one paragraph run-on sentence!!!)

http://doihaveswineflu.org/

[CrunchyMomma]

Technically I think they've only confirmed nine deaths so far worldwide (twelve at the most). Mexico was reporting that there had been "hundreds" of deaths, but so far the samples tested have come up showing that some of the deaths were not directly attributed to this strain of the flu. Of course there is still a backlog. A lot of the deaths were due to the fact that people were being turned away by doctors because they assumed people just had a bad cold or allergies.

In California there was huge hype over a man who died. The news were saying he died from this flu. Turns out he had lymphoma and had been terminally ill for quite some time. A few things to keep this in perspective:

1. They have already speculated that it is highly plausible this didn't start in Mexico and was actually going around during normal flu season, hence why many people reported getting the flu this year despite being vaccinated against it. The first case here in the States dates back to the beginning of March and, if I recall correctly, did not involve travel to Mexico.

When you go to the doctor with flu-like symptoms they give you the option of being tested. Those results are sent to the CDC and WHO to be counted in the National Flu Reports; however, because doctors can pretty much diagnose the flu on the spot (not to mention many people never even go to the doctor when they get the flu) and the additional testing is costly, many people don't get tested to officially confirm the diagnosis. Also, when they do test for the flu they run the gamut of all strains and don't look for a particular, isolated strain so they wouldn't necessarily be looking for this strain among the several that go around each season.

2. There will be more confirmed cases as the testing labs work through the backlog, some dating back to February and March, and the news are reporting that many of the cases already confirmed the people have already recovered, family members have been given antivirals as a preventative and so far have not infected others. The one exception being the private school in New York where children returned home from Spring break in Mexico ill and went to school that way because they didn't want to miss finals. By the end of the week, hundreds of students were out with flu-like symptoms. Only around fifty tested positive for this strain.

[Quantum Mechanic]

Please do not not go to the doctor if you think you have flu!!!
Doctors waiting rooms are wonderful places for spreading infections and there may be children, elderly people and immunosuppressed people there as these groups do consult the doctor more.

Government advice for anyone with flu like symptoms is to stay at home, and telephone the health care provider if necessary.
This flu is no more dangerous than normal flu and should be treated in exactly the same way. Stay at home, phone someone to tell them you are ill if you live alone, take lots of fluids, take paracetamol if you have a fever, take rehydration salts of you have diarrhoehha, and telephone the NHS Direct or your health care provider.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemic-flu/Pages/QA.aspx

It can't be said to do one or the other (stay away from the doctor or go whenever you get symptoms). It depends on how sick you get, and other factors (such as being immunosuppressed like was mentioned). Staying home and such similar measures are the first line, but going to the doctor shouldn't be shut off.

[Buddha Belly]

The WHO don't like the name 'swine flu' either Cherry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/he...name.html?_r=1

We could call it Mexican Death Fever. It has that extra punch that the media love and can cause a real panic in the population. MDF does have a nice ring to it.

[Quantum Mechanic]

Along those same lines...

Hemagglutinin 1-2 Punch? Television news outlets are not known for knowing where to draw the line...

[beanstew]

MDF does have a nice ring to it.

The Daily Wail would get the wrong end of the stick and call for a ban on flat pack furniture.

[gutts]

The Daily Wail would get the wrong end of the stick and call for a ban on flat pack furniture.

If only maggie were in charge, she'd know what to do. Oh well, on to the next Daily Fail story about an immigrant claiming benefits who...

gutts

[beanstew]

If only maggie were in charge, she'd know what to do. Oh well, on to the next Daily Fail story about an immigrant claiming benefits who...

gutts

... bans Christmas and lowers property prices.

[CrunchyMomma]

They're asking people here in the States to please call your doctor before showing up at the doctor's office, especially if your doctor's office does not have a separate waiting room for sick and well patients. Some doctor's offices have special steps sick patients must take to protect well patients and patients with less benign medical issues so they're asking for people to please not just show up, rather call first. But they're also saying now if it isn't serious to just stay home. Basically, if you normally stay home and don't go to the doctor with seasonal flu, you shouldn't have any need for medical care with this strain.

They're also asking people to please stop panicking and bogging down the emergency rooms. ERs are complaining that since this story broke last weekend there have been tens of thousands of people flooding emergency rooms with everything from colds to seasonal allergies thinking they have this flu. They're having trouble treating the real emergency cases such as heart attacks and gunshot wounds and whatnot because they're so crowded with scared people. They're also stated they will no longer send EMTs to anyone's house calling to complain of flu-like symptoms because people with run of the mill colds were calling 911 for an ambulance to come to their homes.

[kriz]

They're also asking people to please stop panicking and bogging down the emergency rooms. ERs are complaining that since this story broke last weekend there have been tens of thousands of people flooding emergency rooms with everything from colds to seasonal allergies thinking they have this flu. They're having trouble treating the real emergency cases such as heart attacks and gunshot wounds and whatnot because they're so crowded with scared people. They're also stated they will no longer send EMTs to anyone's house calling to complain of flu-like symptoms because people with run of the mill colds were calling 911 for an ambulance to come to their homes.

I guess it's understandable that people are panicking the way media have hyped the whole thing and played into our fears in the most effective way, but it's a non-productive way of dealing with a problem. Since it's a new strain, precautions should be taken, of course, but panic and paranoia may cause even more harm IMO.

[cedarblue]

a colleague at work said "at least we can still eat pork!"

*sigh**

[CrunchyMomma]

I guess it's understandable that people are panicking the way media have hyped the whole thing and played into our fears in the most effective way, but it's a non-productive way of dealing with a problem. Since it's a new strain, precautions should be taken, of course, but panic and paranoia may cause even more harm IMO.

Well, it's a known fact that Americans tend to abuse the emergency room system here. People go to the ER for things as benign as colds and migraines (not that migraines are fun, by any stretch of the imagination, but an ER doctor will only give you an Extra Strength Tylenol for one). It's no surprise they're flooding ERs over this. What people have failed to realize is that we're still in the midst of flu season here. Not at the peak, but it's not impossible to get influenze at any time of the year.

A mother in the town next to us was furious that the CDC would not test her daughter for H1N1, even though her flu symptoms were very benign and she was not in the risk category. In fact, H1N1 was the predominant flu strain that went around the States this year. It may not have been the "swine flu", but it was A/H1N1 none the less, so I have no idea why they're hyping this strain as if it's some mysterious flu virus that no one has ever heard of. It is the single most common subtype of flu among humans, even though there are various strains of the subtype that subtly mutate from time to time.

As it stands there are only 787 confirmed cases of this particular strain in the entire world, most coming from backlogged samples taken in Mexico almost a month ago. The world's population is estimated at close to 7 billion. I hardly see this as a frightening illness anymore. Yes I will continue to do what I do year-round and that is wash my hands and keep them away from my face and not walk through other peoples coughs and sneezes in public, but I refuse to buy into the hype. It's obviously been a slow news week. Last major headlines were about the Kentucky Derby and scientists being able to make dogs glow in the dark.

[harpy]

I went to visit someone in hospital yesterday and they had all these helpful posters up headed "SWINE FLU" that basically said if you had any flu-like symptoms you should **** off home before you infect all their patients. I would have thought anyone with flu-like symptoms would have the sense not to visit a hospital anyway but maybe not

To look on the gloomy side, as someone else said, now They've decided the flu pandemic isn't going to get us we'll be back to our daily diet of credit crunch stories :-/

[cedarblue]

To look on the gloomy side, as someone else said, now They've decided the flu pandemic isn't going to get us we'll be back to our daily diet of credit crunch stories :-/

uh huh!
...untill the second wave of the flu hits us at some point - more virulent than this first strain apparently...

[mariana]

...and scientists being able to make dogs glow in the dark.

Uh... I must have missed that story.

[Frank]

Dog story can be found here:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...C7yfgD97RNB7G2

[auryn23]

Arg. Just. Arg.

[herbwormwood]

How are the stats looking in the UK, herbwormwood? The news has been slow here today. Not that it's necessarily a great sign or that there haven't been anymore cases, just that we haven't seen a staggering increase of them, but I heard that there were something like three-hundred suspected cases in the UK.

There have been very few confirmed cases in the UK.
The latest BBC report is here and gives a map of where the confirmed cases are.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8032165.stm
The UK has a lot of very densely populated urban areas, and a media which often tends to scaremongering and hysteria.

[herbwormwood]

It can't be said to do one or the other (stay away from the doctor or go whenever you get symptoms). It depends on how sick you get, and other factors (such as being immunosuppressed like was mentioned). Staying home and such similar measures are the first line, but going to the doctor shouldn't be shut off.

Please do not spread this very ill considered advice.

If a person is ill with a serious infectious disease its better that they stay at home.
If they are ill enough their doctor will either come to their home or send paramedics who can take them to hospital. That's why people are supposed to phone the health care provider.
People with life threatening chronic diseases such as HIV and AIDS, heart and lung disease, and those on immunosuppressive therapy such as cancer patients are being put at risk because when they want to see their doctor they have to sit in waiting rooms full of people coughing and sneezing.

Illnesses such as seasonal flu, and other cough cold type viruses can kill people in these groups, because they have weakened immune systems.

[beanstew]

Expert advises, by way of twitter, greeting friends and colleagues by way of el bump.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/01...tte/index.html

[Ruby Rose]

^ Love it! In the interests of even greater viral safety (not to mention increased social distance) could we start greeting others by smashing them on the head with a tennis racket or something instead?

[Stu]

...but it's a non-productive way of dealing with a problem.

But what is this problem? Sorry, but there isn't a problem (except a fucking irritating media and millions of gullible morons).

[auryn23]

I agree, the media has blown this WAY out of proportion. However, there ARE groups of people that are susceptible to infections at much higher rates than others. Anytime there is any flu going around, you hear about vaccinating the elderly and young children, because they could die from something that causes someone else the sniffles. And those with any immunodeficiency need to know what to do to protect themselves.

I disagree that anyone concerned about this is a gullible moron, but I do agree that the media has made this into something it should not have been made in to. When I run the world, there will be responsible alerts for safety.

[CrunchyMomma]

I think the reason this particular strain is so frightening for people is because:

1. It's one scientists and doctors have never seen and there is no clear-cut answer to how easily it spreads nor how dangerous it could become if it mutates.

2. There is no vaccine for it, at present.

3. We're supposed to be coming out of our flu season here in the States. Are we going to have a year-long intense flu season, or will this virus just fizzle out until Fall?

I hate flu season. I have a small child and a husband who works for a HUGE company and is exposed to hundreds of co-workers every single day. They all get flu shots for free every year, so they don't have the flu going around the building, but there is no vaccination against this strain. I have such anxiety during the winter months when the flu runs rampant here. I don't want to feel that same anxiety all summer long.

Granted, I think the media has way overblown the severity of this flu. There has been a lot of backtracking, differences of opinions and wavering on the information. One day it's not so bad, the next day you'd think they're preparing the world for the next Spanish Flu pandemic. I don't think it's some special flu that's going to wipe us all out, but I will continue to be cautious about washing my hands.

[kriz]

But what is this problem? Sorry, but there isn't a problem (except a fucking irritating media and millions of gullible morons).

I agree, Stu, it's a POTENTIAL problem. Sure, it can mutate and come back in a nasty form, but why panic about something that may or may not happen tomorrow. I should stop driving a car, and participate in all other ''risky'' activities because they are potentially dangerous. Thinking about it, I may even quit my job, so I can be home in safety...

Caution and common sense prevention is very different from irrational fear and paranoia, which can have a terrible effects in a society.

[CrunchyMomma]

I know the concern here in the States is that they're now discovering it is popping up in patients previously considered outside of the "at risk" cetegory. For example, there is a pregnant woman in my state whose sample is being tested for H1N1 and the Georgia Dept. of Health is saying because it did not match any other strain samples, it is most likely the "swine flu"; however, they have no clue how she would have contracted it.

So far in most countries where this flu has popped up it's been a few isolated cases among people who have traveled to Mexico, but here in the States people are getting it and haven't even been around people who have recently traveled to Mexico. They're getting it and haven't even been around someone who is sick, that they know of. That means there are people here in the States who have it, aren't going to the doctor and are passing it around. This woman could have touched something at the store and then rubbed her eye. Basically Mexico and the United States are the only countries where there has been sustained transmission from person to person which means we'll end up having a full-blown flu season all through summer and that's the largest potential for problems here in the States, especially since unlike normal flu season no one has been vaccinated against this.

[cobweb]

But what is this problem? Sorry, but there isn't a problem (except a fucking irritating media and millions of gullible morons).

so you would rather we weren't told about new strains of flu or other viruses?
if there's no problem why are now seeing schools and nurseries closing in Britain?
if you think this thread is only for the gullible morons why do you feel the need to keep commenting on it, haven't you got better things to do with your time, being one of the superior intelligensia and all

[harpy]

I think that the media do have a responsibility to report new flu strains so that people can take appropriate action, but at the same time they shouldn't frighten the public unnecessarily which I'd say some papers etc have been doing, given that there doesn't seem to be much evidence so far that this strain is particularly harmful.

It's possible the school closures etc are over-reactions but I can see why people would be careful at this stage, especially as younger people seem more vulnerable to this particular flu strain than older ones so it could spread more that way.

[BlackCats]

a colleague at work said "at least we can still eat pork!" *sigh**

That's a relief.

[RebeccaDye]

The media really have made a pig's ear of this 'pandemic'. Bloody scaremongers.

[Stu]

so you would rather we weren't told about new strains of flu or other viruses?

So are you suggesting that the public are 'told' about every new strain of virus? Regardless of whether or not I think we should be, there is no valid reason why the media has picked up on this one particular thing.
And what the media are doing is nothing to do with 'telling' us. These are hardly public-service announcements, are they? It's more suggestion, scaremongering and lies.

if there's no problem why are now seeing schools and nurseries closing in Britain?

The only problem is gullible morons closing schools and nurseries unnecessarily.

if you think this thread is only for the gullible morons why do you feel the need to keep commenting on it, haven't you got better things to do with your time, being one of the superior intelligensia and all

One thing that I really REALLY don't like, is people putting words in my mouth. I resent you saying that I think this thread is only for gullible morons, and I hope you'll take it back because that has really angered me.

[cobweb]

So are you suggesting that the public are 'told' about every new strain of virus? Regardless of whether or not I think we should be, there is no valid reason why the media has picked up on this one particular thing.
And what the media are doing is nothing to do with 'telling' us. These are hardly public-service announcements, are they? It's more suggestion, scaremongering and lies.



The only problem is gullible morons closing schools and nurseries unnecessarily.



One thing that I really REALLY don't like, is people putting words in my mouth. I resent you saying that I think this thread is only for gullible morons, and I hope you'll take it back because that has really angered me.

Well I won't because you really angered me actually, by coming on this thread several times and saying how 'angry' the thread made you!. If you arent interested in a thread because you think it covers a subject that's only for 'gullible morons' then why read it atall .

I'm sure that school and nurseries (especially private nurseries) don't want to close, so maybe, just maybe, they have made a decision on health grounds. Maybe not everyone who disagrees with you is a 'gullible moron'.

I think that your terminology is extremely rude and patronising and I also think that I am equally as entitled to my opinion as you are yours.

I really wouldn't know whether we are told about every new strain of flu virus, but I'd bet that people like you would accuse the government of 'covering it up' if we weren't told of possible endemics/pandemics .

[cobweb]

Gullibility can be contracted through reading newspapers and watching the news. If you avoid these two things, you are immune to swine flu.

see, i find that incredibly rude and patronising - you know, Stu, some of us are actually capable of reading a newspaper and still making our own judgments and forming our own opinions on things .

If you don't watch the news or read papers then how do you know about this strain of flu anyway, and why bother discussing it if it doesn't interest you/concern you

[cobweb]

This thread is making me angry. It's like reading the Daily Mail.

THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

Now please stop allowing the media to brainwash you.

How would you know, if you don't read the 'papers?.
I personally detest the Daily Mail but Stu, are you really qualified to state 'there is nothing to worry about' .
Me, i'm not particularly worried, but i defend the right of any of us to discuss it here. Maybe we are interested, that's not the same as being worried. I haven't seen anyone here state that they are in a state of high alarm over this.

Don't tell other people what to do/talk about!!! .

Do you really imagine that vegans are easily 'brainwashed' by the media (or anyone else)

You said that it makes you angry for people to put words in your mouth, and i can understand why, right enough. So please try to understand this, Stu, i don't like people making assumptions about others - such as anyone closing down their nursery is a "gullible moron" (your words) and that anyone who reads a newspaper is "gullible" and "brainwashed".

Do you work in the health ministry?. Are you able to make a public statement that there is 'nothing to worry about'?. No, funnily enough, you work in a library, i hope people are not being brainwashed by the books there every day!.

[greeny]

The following is from a email I recieved, if anybody is interested to sign the petition calling on investigate and develop regulations for factory farming to uphold global public health standards, please read on. Thanks.

Hi,

Did you know that evidence is growing of the link between factory farms and swine flu? International organisations have been warning that these inhumane and filthy operations are breeding grounds of disease for years.

I just signed a petition calling on the the United Nations World Health Organisation and the Food and Agriculture Organisation to investigate and develop regulations for factory farming to uphold global public health standards. If we reach 200,000 signers, the petition will be delivered in Geneva with a herd of cardboard pigs. Sign below and tell your friends −− a pig will be added for every 1000 signers!

http://www.avaaz.org/en/swine_flu_pa...1e8b099c77d5ad

Thank you so much for your help!

−−−−−

Here's the full Email from Avaaz:

Dear friends,

No−one yet knows whether swine flu will become a global pandemic, but it is becoming clear where it came from – most likely a giant pig factory farm run by an American multinational corporation in Veracruz, Mexico.)1(

These factory farms are disgusting and dangerous, and they're rapidly multiplying. Thousands of pigs are brutally crammed into dirty warehouses and sprayed with a cocktail of drugs −− posing a health risk to more than just our food −− they and their manure lagoons create the perfect conditions to breed dangerous new viruses like swine flu. The World Health Organization )WHO( and the Food and Agriculture Organisation )FAO( must investigate and develop regulations for these farms to protect global health.

Big agrobusiness will try to obstruct and scuttle any attempts at reform, so we need a massive outcry that health authorities can't ignore. Sign the petition below for investigation and regulation of factory farms and tell your friends and family and we will deliver it to the UN agencies. If we reach 200,000 signatures we will deliver it to the WHO in Geneva with a herd of cardboard pigs. For every 1000 petition signatures we will add a pig to the herd:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/swine_flu_pa...1e8b099c77d5ad

Last week the flu was all that we talked about −− Mexico has been nearly paralysed and across the world leaders halted air travel, banned pork imports and initiated drastic controls to mitigate the spreading virus. As the threat shows signs of subsiding the question becomes where it came from and how we stop another outbreak.

Smithfield Corporation, the largest pig producer in the world whose farm is being fingered as the source of the H1N1 outbreak, denies any connection between their pigs and the flu and big agrobusiness worldwide pays huge sums of money for research to argue that biosafety is ensured in industrial hog production. But the WHO has been saying for years that 'a new pandemic is inevitable')2( and experts from the European Commission and the FAO have cautioned that the rapid move from small holdings to industrial pig production is in fact increasing the risk of development and transmission of disease epidemics. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warn that scientists still do not know the extent that infectious compounds produced in factory farms affect human health.)3(

Studies abound of the horrific conditions endured by pigs in concentrated large−scale operations, and the devastating economic impact on small farmer communities of bloated large−scale operations.)4( Smithfield itself has already been fined $12.6m and is currently under another federal investigation in the US for toxic environmental damage from pig excrement lakes.)5(

But even with all of this damaging evidence, a combination of increased global meat consumption and a powerful industry motivated by profit at the cost of human health, means that instead of being shut down − these sickening factory farm operations are propagating around the world and we are subsidising them )6(. In the wake of this swine flu threat, let's hold industrial pig producers to account. Sign the petition for investigation and regulation:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/swine_flu_pa...1e8b099c77d5ad

If we resolve this global health crisis boldly by reassessing our food consumption and production, and urgently calling for an inquiry into the impact of factory farms on human health, we could put in place tough farm practice rules that will save the global population from future animal borne lethal pandemics.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/swine_flu_pa...1e8b099c77d5ad

in hope,

Alice, Pascal, Graziela, Paul, Brett, Ben, Ricken, Iain, Paula, Luis, Raj, Margaret, Taren and the whole Avaaz team

)1( Biosurveillance report tracing the disease to the Smithfields farm: http://biosurveillance.typepad.com/b...22;events.html
Reports on the link between the Mexican factory farm and the flu:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life−st...2;1675809.html
http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...,1701782.story
http://www.scientificamerican.com/po...22;05−01
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david−..._b_191408.html

)2( WHO pandemic information
http://www.euro.who.int/influenza/20080618_19

)3( FAO, EC and CDC reports on the risks of industrial farming on public health
FAO and CIWF and http://www.cdc.gov/cafos/about.htm

)4( CIWF and PETA video reports of the disgusting conditions for animals in factory farms and the disease ridden manure swamps:
CIWF and PETA

)5( Reports on Smithfield's animal welfare and environmental damage
http://www.independent.co.uk/life−st...2;1675809.html

http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/pre...rticle03132008

http://avaazimages.s3.amazonaws.com/SmithfieldJan08.pdf

)6( Reports on UK tax payers subsidising factory farms http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agr...2;England.html

[Stu]

I'm not going to have an argument with you, especially since you seem to misunderstand what I say.

[CrunchyMomma]

I would have thought anyone with flu-like symptoms would have the sense not to visit a hospital anyway but maybe not

Hell, I have a friend who got a nasty, nasty stomach virus back in December on the same day her sister had a baby. What does she do? Goes to the hospital, keeps puking in the visitor restroom, but holds her newborn niece.

[cobweb]

I'm not going to have an argument with you, especially since you seem to misunderstand what I say.

fine, i don't expect i'm intelligent enough to understand what you say anyway
i'm just a moron, i'll get back to reading my paper and let you get back to whatever lofty things you usually do.

[1gentlemaorispirit]

I read this on Yapoo news this morning:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/5548253


My OH works with a guy and his wife at the unit. The husband and wife often have some friction between them.

On Monday the husband said to his wife: "You must have swine flu!"
Wife: "Why?"
Husband:" Because you've got a face like a pig!"

The wife turned the air blue in reply!

This was said in the staff room in front of the Nurses . . .

[cobweb]

I'm really not struck on giving out medications 'just in case' but i do think that there is good reason for averyone to be aware of what is happening when this kind of pandemic is occuring.

The media just give the public what they want and shouldn't be blamed. People need to think for themselves and i would say that they mostly do. If people want to opt out of society and hide from 'media' and the news then i can fully understand that but i think it's a bit much to go round telling others not to discuss things.

As a nurse, what is your OH's opinion on this 'swine' flu, 1GMS?

[puca]

Johann Hari on Swine Flu

[Poison Ivy]

If the only good thing to come out of all the 'propaganda' is that more people start coughing and sneezing into tissues instead of all over anyone who happens to be in the vicinity I for one will be quite happy.

Whether it is overhyped or not I really don't know, but I'd rather be aware of the possibility than living in ignorance about it.

[cobweb]

If the only good thing to come out of all the 'propaganda' is that more people start coughing and sneezing into tissues instead of all over anyone who happens to be in the vicinity I for one will be quite happy.

Whether it is overhyped or not I really don't know, but I'd rather be aware of the possibility than living in ignorance about it.

I agree, and i reserve judgment on whether something is pure 'hype' or not til it progresses a bit further............

[leedsveg]

I've seen mortality estimates for the '1918 Spanish flu pandemic' ranging from 20m to 100m+. Only a minor point but did any of the victims succumb to 'gullible moronism' before they died? I think we should be told......!

leedsveg

[greeny]

Johann Hari on Swine Flu

Thanks for this. I am going to pass the article to my friends.

A video on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j10SQpCO9Wc
Swine Flu: Factory Farming at the Root of the Cause?

Jane Velez-Mitchell talks about how inhumane factory farming of pigs may have helped to cause the outbreak of the Swine Flu. She also talks with Dr. Michael Greger from the Humane Society.

[Ruby Rose]

Oh don't you start!

[1gentlemaorispirit]

I've seen mortality estimates for the '1918 Spanish flu pandemic' ranging from 20m to 100m+. Only a minor point but did any of the victims succumb to 'gullible moronism' before they died? I think we should be told......!

leedsveg

A lot of my Maori family died in the 1918 flu epidemic. Out of 9 siblings my Maori Grandmother and 4 others survived!

I'm really not struck on giving out medications 'just in case' but i do think that there is good reason for averyone to be aware of what is happening when this kind of pandemic is occuring.

The media just give the public what they want and shouldn't be blamed. People need to think for themselves and i would say that they mostly do. If people want to opt out of society and hide from 'media' and the news then i can fully understand that but i think it's a bit much to go round telling others not to discuss things.

As a nurse, what is your OH's opinion on this 'swine' flu, 1GMS?

His says: "Every 2 years or so, there's a 'new flu' epidemic. Whether it's swine flu, bird flu or other respiratory diseases, such as SARS. We've relied too much on Anti-biotics in the past 30 years, causing a panic at the slightest sniffle!"

[leedsveg]

Sorry if my posting was offensive to you in any way 1g. I was trying to be gently ironic. I suspect some of my grandparent's siblings/close relatives may have also died from the flu at that time.

leedsveg

[auryn23]

So can anyone explain to me the difference between a "pan"demic and an "epi"demic?