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Thread: Mad Cow, Bird/Swine Flu, Foot and Mouth, E.coli, Salmonella, Ebola, Marburg...

  1. #501
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Quote jimmeh View Post
    I wasn't taking the article seriously - I just thought it was interesting. I like a good old conspiracy
    Everyone knows it was the CIA! They were developing a virus that only killed pigs and Mexicans and it got out of control!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  2. #502

    Default Re: Swine Flu

    Quote gogs67 View Post
    Everyone knows it was the CIA! They were developing a virus that only killed pigs and Mexicans and it got out of control!
    You know you're sad when you start thinking about swine flu in terms of the X-Files black oil saga. It's a virus being leaked to the public so that we're turned into slaves, and only the Syndicate have the vaccine to protect themselves....

  3. #503
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    Quote jimmeh View Post
    You know you're sad when you start thinking about swine flu in terms of the X-Files black oil saga. It's a virus being leaked to the public so that we're turned into slaves, and only the Syndicate have the vaccine to protect themselves....
    Hmmmmmmm..........................i may have to put another layer of tinfoil inside my hat after reading that!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  4. #504
    *live*&*let*live
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    Not read all the thread so apologies if I am repeating something, it's too late and I'm waaay too tired. There is allegedly an outbreak in Manchester not too far from me, but I go for work
    (BlackCats you are there aren't you -any news?)
    Reported to be 29 deaths up to today latest was a six year old girl....
    Allegedy Cheri Blair has it as did the guy who plays Ron Weasley in HP
    What my point is I read something today and it upset and angered me.....

    Swine Flu: How the H1N1 Virus Got Its Start


    Swine Flu: How the H1N1 Virus Got Its Start
    Around Thanksgiving 2005 a teenage boy helped his brother-in-law butcher 31 pigs at a local Wisconsin slaughterhouse, and a week later the 17-year-old pinned down another pig while it was gutted. In the lead-up to the holidays the boy's family bought a chicken and kept the animal in their home, out of the harsh Sheboygan autumn. On Dec. 7, the teenager came down with the flu, suffering an illness that lasted three days. He visited a local clinic, then fully recovered, and nobody else in his family took ill.
    This incident would hardly seem worth mentioning except that the influenza virus that infected the Wisconsin lad was unlike any previously seen. It appeared to be a mosaic of a wild-bird form of flu, a human type and a strain found in pigs.
    It was an H1N1 swine influenza. Largely ignored at the time, the Wisconsin virus was a step along the evolutionary tree, leading to a virus that four years later would stun the world.
    Flash-forward to April 2009, and young Édgar Enrique Hernández in faraway La Gloria, Mexico, suffers a bout of flu, found to be caused by a similar mosaic of swine/bird/human flu, also H1N1. And thousands of miles away in Cairo, the Egyptian government decides pigs are the source of disease, and orders 300,000 animals in the predominantly Muslim (therefore not pork-consuming) society slaughtered.
    Each of these three incidents is related to the unfolding influenza crisis. It is the manner of human beings to seek blame during times of fear. Fingers are now pointing, either at the entire pig species Sus domestica, or at the nation of Mexico. Such exercises in blame are not only scientifically ill founded, ut are likely to prompt government actions that, at the very least, are useless and, at worst, harmful for efforts to control a pandemic.
    We live in a globalized world, filled with shared microbial threats that arise in one place, are amplified somewhere else through human activities that aid and abet the germs, and then traverse vast geographic terrains in days, even hours—again, thanks to human activities and movements. If there is blame to be meted out, it should be directed at the species Homo sapiens and the manifest ways in which we are reshaping the world ecology, offering germs like the influenza virus extraordinary new opportunities to evolve, mutate and spread.
    Back in 2005, the Wisconsin Division of Public Health hunted for sick pigs in Sheboygan County, but the animals the teenager had helped slaughter came from multiple farms across the area, and every farmer claimed his herd was healthy. The Wisconsin authorities forwarded blood samples from the infected teenager and his family to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. The CDC scientists discovered that the H1N1 virus had pieces of its RNA genetic material that matched a human flu first seen in New Caledonia in 1999, two swine types that had been circulating in Asia and Wisconsin for several years and an unknown avian-flu virus.
    In 2006 the American Association of Swine Veterinarians reported that humans were passing their H1N1 viruses to pigs, causing widespread illness in swine herds, especially in the American Midwest. A year later at a county fair in Ohio an outbreak occurred, sickening many of the pigs, but not their human handlers. The cause was a type of H1N1 that was a close match to the Wisconsin strain, and may have been spread from human to pig.
    Last year researchers from Iowa State University in Ames warned that pigs located in industrial-scale farms were being subjected to influenza infections from farm poultry, wild birds and their human handlers. Writing in The Journal of Infectious Diseases, Eileen Thacker and Bruce Janke said, "As a result of the constantly changing genetic makeup of individual influenza viruses in pigs, the U.S. swine industry is continually scrambling to respond to the influenza viruses circulating within individual production systems."
    Something was changing. Pigs notoriously eat just about anything thrown their way, and rub up against each other frequently, readily passing infections within herds. Their stomachs are remarkably tolerant environs for microbes, which since ancient times have caused illness in humans who dined on raw or undercooked pork. Investigation of the 1918 influenza pandemic, which is now estimated to have killed up to 100 million people worldwide in 18 months, revealed that the viral culprit was a type H1N1 human flu that had infected pigs, and then circulated back to humans.
    At the viral level, influenza is an awfully sloppy microbe that is in a constant state of mutation and evolution. Its genetic material is in the form of RNA (not DNA, as in humans), loosely collected into chromosomes. When a virus infects a cell, its chromosomes essentially fall apart into a mess, which is copied to make more viruses that then enter the bloodstream to spread throughout the body. Along the way in this copying process any other genetic material that may be lying about the cell is also stuffed into the thousands of viral copies that are made. If the virus happens to be reproducing this way inside a human cell, it picks up Homo sapiensgenetic material; from a chicken cell it absorbs avian genes; and from a pig cell it garners swine RNA. The jackpot events in influenza evolution occur when two different types of flu viruses happen to get into an animal cell at the same time, swapping entire chromosomes to create "reassorted" viruses.
    What was infecting that teenager in Sheboygan was a triple reassortment, resulting in a new virus with bits of genes from three species of animals—one of them Homo sapiens.
    To read the rest of this article on Newsweek.com, click here.





    I don't wish to sound really nasty but someone else should have had their comeuppance........what a nasty evil little shit (if this story is accurate)

    According to a statement released by a West Midland Police Officer he likend swine flu to terrorism, heatwave and flooding I presume he is equating that to the work load they receive. He added that if this continues it will be worse than all put together Can't help but think this is Karma in some way. The animals bite back........(when you look at 'mad cow' disease, bird flu, now this!)
    How ironic they kept the chicken away from the 'harsh autumn' was that so it would be safe and they could eat it?

  5. #505
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    Quote *live*&*let*live View Post
    Not read all the thread so apologies if I am repeating something, it's too late and I'm waaay too tired. There is allegedly an outbreak in Manchester not too far from me, but I go for work
    (BlackCats you are there aren't you -any news?)
    I live in Essex.

    My brother had the first case of swine flu at the school he works in recently in North London but the school wasn't closed. I think most people are getting less hysterical about the whole issue now. It's sad that some people have died but they have all had underlying health problems already I think. I mean how many people die from normal flu every year anyway.

  6. #506
    *live*&*let*live
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    ^Sorry BC for some reason I thought you lived in Manchester, would you like to live in Manchester for the sake of my thread? Or just because you fancy a change!! ^

  7. #507
    leedsveg
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    And if we do get swine flu and recover, remember that according to scientists, variant CJD (vCJD) can have an incubation period of 30-50 years.

    leedsveg

  8. #508
    Prawnil
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    Quote BlackCats View Post
    It's sad that some people have died but they have all had underlying health problems already I think.
    No longer true!

  9. #509
    leedsveg
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    Sooner or later, some of us may need to consider whether or not to have an antiviral injection. As far as I can see, antivirals in the UK (maybe all over Europe?) are produced using eggs. How do people on the forum feel about this?

    leedsveg

  10. #510
    *live*&*let*live
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    Not sure LV, but they will fo' sure be tested on animals *sigh* that's the biggie for me.

  11. #511
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    I'm not sure they're going to be tested much at all, from what I've read, because of the rush to get them ready. Somebody I know was told by a pharmaceutical industry insider that it would be a good idea to get one if it's offered, but then they would say that wouldn't they.

    Personally I would probably get one if I was in an "at risk" group but I'm not sure I see the need otherwise, famous last words.

  12. #512
    *live*&*let*live
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    So they are throwing them out untested how do they know they 'work' then? Every year I am requested for my attendance at my GP's for the flu jab 'cos I have asthma, and every year I decline...I have always been fine.
    *touches wood*
    I think it may be ok for vulnerable people particularly elderly or very young, but if you are healthy I hope that counts for something. Probably not

  13. #513
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Being vegan i don't think we have to worry too much about swine flu!
    Lentil flu, or a muted carrot flu on the other hand.......................
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  14. #514
    *live*&*let*live
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    That's what I was saying recently *sitting there with her holier than thou thoughts as she doesn't eat animals* to some friends....let's hope it does give us a skip....now as for the other - veggie flu -

    *rushes off to get a shot of strawberry vaccine*

  15. #515
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Well, they are testing it, but rushing through the process, from what I read/heard. It may not be right though. Actually, thinking about it, flu vaccines must always be prepared in a bit of a rush because otherwise they would be out of date before they're used, as flu viruses seem to mutate quite rapidly.

  16. #516
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    "strawberry vaccine"................that's like something Mary Poppins would have for the kids!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  17. #517
    *live*&*let*live
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    I AM a BIG kid
    and it goes well with your veggies!

  18. #518
    BlackCats
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    I keep asking people this but nobody answers me. How do people know if they have swine flu or if it is just regular flu? I had read that some people are just calling their GP and describing their symptoms over the phone but the symptoms of both types of flu are almost the same aren't they?

  19. #519
    cobweb
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    I think there is vomiting with swine flu, BC

    I am definitely refusing to be vaccinated against it, I would rather risk Swine Flu than have a cocktail of crap injected into my system, personally.

  20. #520
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    Quote cobweb View Post
    I think there is vomiting with swine flu, BC
    I have had vomiting when I have had the normal flu though.

    I don't have the flu jab and I don't think I would bother with a swine flu jab.

  21. #521
    cobweb
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    maybe you had Swine Flu before it became trendy?

  22. #522
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    Quote cobweb View Post
    maybe you had Swine Flu before it became trendy?
    Haha. The proper flu can be quite bad enough anyway. I saw on the news that East London is one of the hot spots for swine flu. When I was in the doctors the other day I sat really far away from the other patients in the waiting room and tried not to breathe in too much.

  23. #523
    Quirky Vegan Kate1978's Avatar
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    Quote BlackCats View Post
    I keep asking people this but nobody answers me. How do people know if they have swine flu or if it is just regular flu? I had read that some people are just calling their GP and describing their symptoms over the phone but the symptoms of both types of flu are almost the same aren't they?
    That's one of the reasons to take all the "X.. thousand of people have been diagnosed with swine flu" with a pinch of salt.

    "Diagnosis" can mean calling the NHS pandemic flu line, describing your symptoms to an operator who has been given 3 hours training (not making this up it was on the NHS choices website), who will have been told to err on the side of caution anyway.
    ~ Don't think twice, it's all right ~

  24. #524
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    Quote Kate1978 View Post
    That's one of the reasons to take all the "X.. thousand of people have been diagnosed with swine flu" with a pinch of salt.
    "Diagnosis" can mean calling the NHS pandemic flu line, describing your symptoms to an operator who has been given 3 hours training (not making this up it was on the NHS choices website), who will have been told to err on the side of caution anyway.
    Exactly. Lots of people aren't even being tested for swine flu or anything, it is just being assumed that they have it. Also some people always exaggerate their illness. I know lots of people that say they have the flu when it is just a cold. (Also I bet some people are just saying they have swine flu to get out of work.)

  25. #525
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    Hardly anyone normally gets flu at this time of year, so I think it tends to be assumed now that if you've got flu symptoms it's "swine flu". But I also read that sometimes a swine flu infection is symptomless, or just like a cold. I had a slight cold-type thing a couple of weeks ago so I was sort of hoping that was it :-/

    ETA and I wasn't malingering BC, there's no mileage in it if you're self-employed

  26. #526
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    Quote harpy View Post
    ETA and I wasn't malingering BC, there's no mileage in it if you're self-employed
    I think you just wanted to stay in bed and get sympathy.

  27. #527
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    Bed! Now that's an idea! Have only just finished work (cue: violins). You seem to be burning the candle at both ends too?

  28. #528
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    Default Re: Swine Flu

    A friend came round on Wednesday night and she knows 6 people with swine flu, including a friend of ours and several people she works with.

    I felt ill yesterday and was slightly worried it might be swine flu because I had a variety of odd symptoms (sweating, nausea, headache, extreme sleepiness, bubbly tummy and an odd rash on my chest.) I feel better today so hopefully that will continue.

    But it started me wondering what I would do if I did have swine flu. I'd be quite reluctant to take any drugs anyway but especially without a clear understanding the benefits and whether the risks of not taking it are serious or potentially deadly ie enough to warrant considering it. Also I'd want to know for sure that I had swine flu, not have someone 'guessing' on a phone helpline as people have been saying. I wonder if you can pay to be tested and how quick the service is?
    Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. - Floyd Dell

  29. #529
    Stu
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    One of my colleagues has swine flu and one of my other (stupid) colleagues refuses to work around her. Nobody has managed to explain to me why this particular flu is a big deal yet, and it's been months. I don't mind if I get it.

  30. #530
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    ^ Maybe your collegue dont want to get it because she is in contact with people that have weak immune systemweak imune systeme?

  31. #531
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    I think it's more likely that she reads the Daily Mail / Express / Mirror / Sun / Metro etc.

  32. #532
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    Shouldn't your colleague be off sick if she has (swine) flu!?

  33. #533
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    Quote BlackCats View Post
    Exactly. I know lots of people that say they have the flu when it is just a cold.
    I usually ask if they really have INFLUENZA or just a runny nose... WHICH one is it? BIG difference there, you know!.... I feel the same when people say they got a cold from walking in the rain on a chilly day... or think that antibiotics work against a viral infection....
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

  34. #534
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    Quote Stu View Post
    Nobody has managed to explain to me why this particular flu is a big deal yet, and it's been months.
    I think it is hard to assess as I think almost everyone who has had it severely enough to get medical attention so far has taken tamiflu. There is no treatment for normal seasonal flu is there? We have no idea how bad would it be without the tamiflu treatment.

    The reason I'm concerned about getting it is that I think I have a problem with my immune system and I don't want to take tamiflu or be vaccinated.
    Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. - Floyd Dell

  35. #535
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    Quote kriz View Post
    I usually ask if they really have INFLUENZA or just a runny nose... WHICH one is it? BIG difference there, you know!.... I feel the same when people say they got a cold from walking in the rain on a chilly day... or think that antibiotics work against a viral infection....
    ()

    I'm not worried about getting swine flu as I'm fairly healthy, I would rather that I didn't catch it though! I'm sure if I do get any type of flu this year it will be around x-mas and New Year as that always seems to happen to me.

  36. #536
    Quirky Vegan Kate1978's Avatar
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    Quote Cherry View Post
    Shouldn't your colleague be off sick if she has (swine) flu!?
    My employer (obsessed with reducing sickness absence) has issued an edict saying if you think you might have SF or your kids are off sick with it to take time off. Clearly the thinking here is that if you stay away from work you're reducing the overall number of sick days by reducing the spread.

    Or so they hope.
    ~ Don't think twice, it's all right ~

  37. #537

    Default Re: Swine Flu

    I've had 'normal flu' once in my life, and it was bl**dy horrible. I was a fairly healthy 20 year old, and it took me about 4 months to get over it. I had all the coughing and sneeze of a cold, while 'bucketing it out at both ends' and pretty much feeling like death was coming for me.

    I was hardly able to move, it sucked all the energy out of me, and I felt worst then I ever had, and I've had some pretty bad problems with my health in the past.

    It even took a toll on my mental state, whereby my parents found me outside in my nighty defrosting the car at about 2am so it would mean I could have a lie in in the morning.

    Every year about 250,000-500,000 people die from the flu, so if this is a very contagious version, that in itself is a worry as the more people who contract it the higher the mortality rates.

    Its very easy to ask what all the fuss is about, but if one has underlieing health problems, or is the carer, then yes, this is a legitimate concern.

    Quote Marrers View Post
    The reason I'm concerned about getting it is that I think I have a problem with my immune system and I don't want to take tamiflu or be vaccinated.
    Same here. My GP actually suggested I put of my routine blood tests as they are getting a lot of people ignoring the advice and coming in with flu like symptoms, and it would be 'not good' for me to get it.
    Quitting something because it's hard is wrong, and quitting something because it's wrong is hard. One takes cowardice, the other bravery.

  38. #538
    Stu
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    Quote Ms_Derious View Post
    Every year about 250,000-500,000 people die from the flu, so if this is a very contagious version, that in itself is a worry as the more people who contract it the higher the mortality rates.
    I don't think this is correct. "Swine Flu" is nothing to worry about because it is very mild and does not tend to kill people. A bigger deal is being made about this, than real flu.

    The only people who have any reason to be concerned, are those with a very vulnerable state of health - and these people have much more serious things to be worried about than swine flu anyway.

    Can we start threads about more valid health matters, such as 'Crossing The Road', 'Not Washing Your Hands' or 'Going To A Club'?

  39. #539
    Rentaghost Marrers's Avatar
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    Quote Marrers View Post
    I think it is hard to assess as I think almost everyone who has had it severely enough to get medical attention so far has taken tamiflu. . . . We have no idea how bad would it be without the tamiflu treatment.
    . . . I don't want to take tamiflu or be vaccinated.
    Quote Stu View Post
    "Swine Flu" is nothing to worry about because it is very mild and does not tend to kill people.
    My point is it may have killed more people if they had not been treated with Tamiflu. So a person with swine flu refusing Tamiflu may be much more likely to die - we just don't know how many people would have died if left untreated do we?

    Quote Stu View Post
    Can we start threads about more valid health matters, such as 'Crossing The Road', 'Not Washing Your Hands' or 'Going To A Club'?
    I don't think there is any need to be so flippant about other peoples concerns Stu. You have made your views clear. Repeatedly.
    Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. - Floyd Dell

  40. #540
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    OK. Sorry to piss you off.

  41. #541
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    I'm not more worried about this than the regular flu. However, people's fear worries me and I wouldn't want to get it for that reason - I don't want people around me to flip out. Unless it mutates into something much nastier, I'm not too concerned.
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

  42. #542
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    Quote Stu View Post
    One of my colleagues has swine flu and one of my other (stupid) colleagues refuses to work around her.
    we all have different worries and concerns; just because someone reacts differently to an issue, does'nt make them stupid - or are they ACTUALLY stupid?? more, that the person who is ill should be staying at home not going in to work.

    Quote Stu View Post
    I think it's more likely that she reads the Daily Mail / Express / Mirror / Sun / Metro etc.
    interesting that someones personal choice in reading matter seems to reflect widespread things about that person??

    Quote Ms_Derious View Post
    Its very easy to ask what all the fuss is about, but if one has underlieing health problems, or is the carer, then yes, this is a legitimate concern.

    agreed

  43. #543

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    It said yesterday that as much as 40% of the American population may contract this flu; people have died, and I would say it's certainly something to be concerned about. As for the "valid health concerns" you mention, Stu, at least I have control over washing my hands, crossing the road or going to a club. I can't always control who I come into contact with and therefore who might give me the flu.

  44. #544
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    The worry the authorities have is that if 30% of the population come down with this all round about the same time, the infrastructure of the country will collapse.
    Hospitals having to close for a period, no train/tube drivers, air travel restricted, lack of police, schools closed etc etc
    THAT is the problem, not the fatality rate!
    So the tactic is to 'scare' the public slightly more than is necessary and hope that peoples common sense can obstruct the spread of this virus!
    This is CPNI policy!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  45. #545
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    Quote Kate1978 View Post
    My employer (obsessed with reducing sickness absence) has issued an edict saying if you think you might have SF or your kids are off sick with it to take time off. Clearly the thinking here is that if you stay away from work you're reducing the overall number of sick days by reducing the spread.

    Or so they hope.
    I think that is very wise and logical of your boss. If everyone could stay at home when sick with contagious diseases, we would all be safer, and yes, reduce sick days in the long run.

    Another thing that upsets me (and I've seen it a lot!) is when people bring their kids to after school activities like music classes or kids gyms when they're having respiratory infections or other nasty stuff... It's beyond common sense. Let's not panic, but let's not spread illness all around us either whatever it is. If anything the Swine Flu will hopefully change that type of carelessness.

    As a kid I wasn't allowed to even step outside the front door when if I was infected with something, I had to ride it out at HOME. It was OK to be unproductive for a while.... Most of my friends' parents had the same rule and I can't remember any of us (class mates and neighbors) being sick often. I never had a flu of any kind growing up nor did my brothers.
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

  46. #546
    cobweb
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    ^ that makes sense to me, too - not for people to panic but not to freely spread their illness around, it can cause misery.

    If people stayed at home they would recover more easily and quickly, too and might not get so many after effects.

  47. #547
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swine Flu

    i've been working on a swine flu helpline and there is a lot of panic about it out there. i had one guy calling to ask how many people in the local area had caught and died of swine flu, because he was having visitors from Edinburgh and wanted to know if it was safe for them to come here. also a lot of people are desperate to get Tamiflu. i've been getting a lot of spam email from companies selling Tamiflu on the internet.

    i had a horrible cold/whatever a couple of weeks ago and felt like death; it could've been swine flu for all i know but i didn't want to be told to take anti-virals so i let it run its course because i know i'm healthy enough. i'm not sure what i'd do if my immune system was more fragile. someone's bound to have a bad reaction to the anti-virals or vaccinations soon enough...
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  48. #548
    CunningPlans Poison Ivy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swine Flu

    Quote Gorilla View Post
    i had a horrible cold/whatever a couple of weeks ago and felt like death; it could've been swine flu for all i know but i didn't want to be told to take anti-virals so i let it run its course because i know i'm healthy enough. i'm not sure what i'd do if my immune system was more fragile. someone's bound to have a bad reaction to the anti-virals or vaccinations soon enough...
    Same here about three weeks ago, fever, cough, vomiting and diarrhoea...the whole shebang - felt shocking for about four-five days, it never even occurred to me it might have been swine flu just thought it was some kind of stomach bug - found out about a week later that people in our village were falling ill with it (swine flu) so who knows??
    Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
    Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

  49. #549
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Swine Flu

    i wonder if dogs can get it?
    Tam has been sneezing for days and has a bad upset tummy

  50. #550

    Default Re: Swine Flu

    Quote cobweb View Post
    i wonder if dogs can get it?
    Tam has been sneezing for days and has a bad upset tummy
    Not likly Cobby Poppet

    http://vetmedicine.about.com/b/2009/...-swine-flu.htm

    Hope Tam gets better soon
    Quitting something because it's hard is wrong, and quitting something because it's wrong is hard. One takes cowardice, the other bravery.

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