Vegan Sunday Sport model

[gertvegan]

Vegetarian for some 15 years, now Vegan.

www.myspace.com/kellybelldotcom

[Kevster]

I don't know how you find 'em.

[bryzee86]

Disgusting. How can a person be against exploitation and then do this to themselves?

I just don't get it.

[antman]

I see no connection between someone being a vegan and the fact that they want to be a glamour model, nor do I think it is my place to judge them for being either of those things.

[bryzee86]

I find this person's being a "glamour" model as objectionable as someone else's shooting for pleasure. But then again in a world where objectification is glossed over and can be put down to mere 'choice', I can see why most people would think that there's no problem with this.... profession

[antman]

Your post is so ignorant and arrogant as to be offensive. You see a comparison between someone, of their own free will, choosing to pose in their undies/naked and someone killing an animal? I won't even bother with the stupidity of putting quotation marks around the word choice or italicising profession.

[bryzee86]

How is it stupid? Do you really gloss over sexual exploitation that easily?

I find myself not bothering to go into explaining why I think that the sex industry is not free will, because I think that it is idiotic that a lot of people think that degradation and exploitation is somehow representative of equality or empowerment. And this is how I find it as offensive as somebody parading around their meateating beliefs. Simply because I think it is wrong. Simply because I do not understand why people can't see it my way. However it is subjective.

[antman]

Choice because it is their choice, profession because it is a profession. Your quotation and italicising suggests that you are trying to imply that they are not these things, which is stupid. It doesn't matter whether you agree with them or not, they are what they are.

Anyways. Did I ever say I understood the sex industry (especially as we started with a newspaper model and you've turned it into hardcore pornography)? Did I ever say that I can see how it supposedly empowers anybody (you misuse the word equality, as who exactly do you think these people believe they are making themselves equal to by posing naked?)? If you knew me at all you wouldn't make those assumptions. I just don't care for your tone or judgemental attitude. As we agree to disagree, let's just stop talking. Bye.

[creature]

I think that the sex industry is not free will, because I think that it is idiotic that a lot of people think that degradation and exploitation is somehow representative of equality or empowerment.

That's a line of argument that's always confused me. I'm not denying that some people in the 'sex industry' (and personally I'd consider the modelling industry to be separate, but I'll use your terms here) are exploited or mistreated. Obviously that should not be tolerated and the perpetrators should be punished. But to declare that all of it is exploitation and nobody within it, no matter what they might think, is exercising their free will seems counterintuitive. It says that women aren't capable of independent thought; are you not being disimpowering and victimising here? You're saying this fully grown adult woman can't make her own decisions. In fact, she's incapable of doing so.

[bryzee86]

no, I question why a woman might choose to take her clothes off for money (or even go as far as to have sex for money). We need to look at why it is that the only nude models in newspapers are women, we need to look at why the vast majority of nude models for art's purposes are women, we need to look at why pornography is so amazingly gender biased (for example you have reams of 'straight' porn aimed at heterosexual men, and 'gay' porn aimed at homosexual men, but very little aimed at their female counterparts), and, we need to go as far as looking at why it is that the female body is seen as an object of beauty, and not the male body.
It is simply because we live in (and have our roots in) a patriarchal, capitalist society. The industry is that way it is because men have dominated over women for thousands of years. It is because women's bodies are used as a commodity by the rich to sell to men for profit.
I can't see how anybody could see this as wrong. I cannot see how or why anyone would simply choose not to support this blatantly sexist and degrading system.

oh and P.S. I see this "modelling" as the same as the sex industry. It's not exactly art, is it? Either that or you've never indeed heard of the daily sport...

[flying plum]

my take on the sex industry is that to a level it is exploitative. but rather than banning it (because it will never happen...it would merely go underground, where exploitation would DEFINATELY happen), it is more profitable to look at exactly why these women go into it, and try to get rid of those problems - often sexual abuse as a child is a contributing factor.

if those ills in our society were eradicated, then i think we would see a vast difference in who was going into the industry, and be able to see who is physically coerced, who is 'vulnerable' and manipulated and who does of their own free will - because there are women who do it completely of their own will.

i agree a lot of this comes from a patriarchly society, as you so clearly point out, but a lot of women in the industry feel that they are empowered, because they feel they can manipulate men so easily just by flashing a boob or two. on top of this, it is my understanding that female porn stars are paid better than male - got to be about the only industry where that happens...

i think there is an argument on both sides there...

amanda

[bryzee86]

that's partially my point - they are paid more not because they are exploited less, but because their bodies are seen as a higher value asset.

[ClawsyWP]

sex industry is explotive.
& incest is boot camp for prostitution and porn.... how can it be free will and a real choice if people have been abused as kids? vast majoirty if not all sex workers have been abused as kids. I dont think its a case of free will and a real choice.
i dont judge at all, lord no, but it pisses me off that people say its a choice or that the sex workers enjoy it.

why are they are called Glamour models?

I guess that is a bit different from being paid to screw some guy, but really its not that different. and heck i looked at that site and she seems like a cartoon or something... i dunno i find it sad.
wierd i say this because i dont hate peta for their adverts.

[bryzee86]

I do, clawsy. I find peta would be a fantastic organisation if it didn't deemit necessary to fall back on the support of sex-based gender stereotypes and exploitation.

[Mr Flibble]

vast majoirty if not all sex workers have been abused as kids

Just out of interest, where did you get this info from?

[Fuhzy]

Jeez I'm confused. A glamour model does what now? Why are we arguing?

[ClawsyWP]

Just out of interest, where did you get this info from?

uh i think its pretty well known. I read it on the internet in a few different places . I know a few people who also seem to fit this. And ive been in counselling for abuse and my counsellor i remeber agreed with this when i spoke to her about. Theres plenty to read about it online if you care to. sorry don't mean to sound snotty but if you google you can find a lot of info about it. Or maybe a womens centre might have some stuff about it all.


http://crime.about.com/od/prostituti...ostitution.htm
"Estimates of the prevalence of incest among prostitutes range from 65 percent to 90 percent. The Council for Prostitution Alternatives, Portland, Oregon Annual Report in 1991 found that: 85 percent of their prostitute clients reported history of sexual abuse in childhood while 70 percent reported incest."

Also note that many survivors get recovered memories of child abuse only later on in life when tis safer to remeber.

[gogs67]

I know a few folk that work in the 'sex industry' (the majority of them vegan actually) and i can assure you none of them are 'exploited',they work for themselves and get good money out of abusing middle aged businessmen mainly!
Don't be so quick to judge!

[xrodolfox]

What a strange discussion.

Regardless, that was the weirdest, most surprising Myspace I've ever seen. I am having a hard time understand "kellie's" views, because I imagine contradictions between many of her views. Kinda like gay right-wingers. Very very weird, but possible.

[Mr Flibble]

uh i think its pretty well known. I read it on the internet in a few different places . I know a few people who also seem to fit this. And ive been in counselling for abuse and my counsellor i remeber agreed with this when i spoke to her about. Theres plenty to read about it online if you care to. sorry don't mean to sound snotty but if you google you can find a lot of info about it.

That's cool, I tell lazy people to use google all the time.

In my personal research/experience (which is certainly limited), I've not come across this as being a major factor. I will indeed read up more when I have time, but I've never seen anyone make a statement quite as conclusive as yours before. I think I need to see more than one or two surveys before agreeing with you, but I'm happy to dig them out if they're there.

I don't mean to be insensitive but my limited experience of the sex industry is more in line with Creature's. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it is rife with exploitation, but also have known people of completely sane mind and to the best of knowledge have not or ever been exploited who've chosen to be involved in it, be that for pleasure, earning a living or a combination of the two.

[scarlett]

I don't really understand the argument - the girl is a vegan, that's a GOOD thing is it not ???

[Pagan Vegan]

This is great news as the average Sport reader probably doesn't consider veganism very often and this might get the message out there to people who would not be receptive to it in any other form.

If this girl is smart enough to consider the consequences of her dietry choice I doubt she is so dim as to be forced to in to the industry she is in.

She's not my cup of tea, but she probably is for many people who put milk in theirs!

[harpy]

I don't care for this industry, but exploiting other people's or creatures' bodies seems a whole lot worse than exploiting one's own.

[BlackCats]

I used to have very similar views to Bryzee about the sex industry and I do agree that women (and men) are exploited in certain parts of it. I used to work for a charity in Kings Cross and whilst working in the area I saw some very sad things but a lot of these women had drug issues as well.

I personally know people that have worked on phone sex lines and the like and I think now that if someone wants to use their hands/mouth/voice/any other body part to make a living it is their choice. I don't really see the difference in someone using their hands to give a massage and any other part of their body to do a service.

I do however find the use of the partially naked female image in tabloids quite irritating for the same reasons as Bryzee but then I just avoid buying them. It does worry me how many people in this country buy newspapers like these but then I don't think I share a lot of views with the majority.

Anyway to get back to the topic I agree that this woman talking about veganism brings it into the public domain.

[veganlinda]

From reading the comments on her myspace she seems to getting a lot of respect for her vegan lifestyle and that has to be good!

[Fuhzy]

Wow those are fake.


But I guess I'm confused why we are talking about her or why she was posted?