B12 deficiency - how long to put right

[Aradia]

I've got many symptoms of B12 deficiency, which isn't surprising as I've neglected my b12 intake for many, many years.

I've ordered some megadose tablets and I'm going to make sure I eat my marmite everyday from now on.

I understand that it can take up to 5 years for deficiency symptoms to show and that they can also take a while to recede. Does anybody know how long? How long shall I take the mega dose tablet for before going onto a standard dose.

I feel such an idiot! I've long espoused the benefits of a vegan diet to my meat-eating friends and I've let this happen. What a prat! I can't believe I've neglected myself in this way for so long. Idiot, idiot!!

PS - I'm not telling any of the meat-eaters!!!

[Korn]

PS - I'm not telling any of the meat-eaters!!!

Why not?
Lots of meat eaters are deficient in a number of nutrients.... look here.


Given the number of factors that reduce B12 in our environment, water, lack of nutrients in soil etc. there no reason to assume that nature as such doesn't provide enough B12, even though the modern lifestyle we live doesn't cater well for nature's own minerals and vitamins.

People may get some extra money reserves by robbing old ladies, and people who lack B12 may bet some extra by eating other beings blood and flesh. Nothing to be proud of really, and we have nothing to hide or excuse. Plant based food contains a lot of nutrients non-vegans normally are very low or deficient in.

Regarding symptoms of B12 deficiency, many of these symptoms are shared with other deficiencies... The best thing to do would probably be to take some tests, and if you do, I'm sure the doctor can find out if you are deficient, how deficient you are and how long a cure may take...

There are millions of B12 deficient people out there, and unlike almost every other nutient, B12 is a vitamin we are more likely to have low levels of than non-vegans, but that's no reason to not tell any meaters about it.


If meat eaters represented a minority of 1 or 2% of the population, and wanted to promote meat eating and set up a site for potential meat eaters ("The Meat Eaters Society"), they would have to put up a lot of warnings re. deficiencies and serious health issues people would experience if they dropped veg*nism and started to eat meat! They would have a hard time recruiting anyone!

Good luck!

[Aradia]

Why not?
If meat eaters represented a minority of 1 or 2% of the population, and wanted to promote meat eating and set up a site for potential meat eaters ("The Meat Eaters Society"), they would have to put up a lot of warnings re. deficiencies and serious health issues people would experience if they dropped veg*nism and started to eat meat! They would have a hard time recruiting anyone!

Good luck!

You got that righ!!!

thanks Korn - I'm going to get myself sorted out with my b12 and take more care in future.

If only chocolate were high in B12 .... I'd be laughing!!

[Joanne81]

A couple of ways that I get vitamin b12 in my diet is kombucha tea (a fermented tea drink) dulse flakes (a tasty type of dried seaweed which can be easily be sprinkled over soups and salads). These are both natural sources of this vitamin. =)

[treaclemine]

"What everybody should know about vitamin B12, vegan or not:"

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/b12/

"The only reliable vegan sources of B12 are foods fortified with B12 (including some plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals) and B12 supplements."

"Very low B12 intakes can cause anaemia and nervous system damage."

[Korn]

The only reliable vegan sources of B12 are foods fortified with B12 (including some plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals) and B12 supplements

Since

a) both B12 and B12 fortified food is known to contain a mixture of active B12 and inactive B12 analogues, and
b) since most plants have never been tested for their B12 levels, and
c) since many of the plants that have been tested for B12 have not been tested for their active/inactive-ratio, and
d) since methods that are used for testing B12 often heat up the plants to a level where B12 is reduced, no site - vegan or not - with respect for itself should ever IMO post such a useless statement.

[Roxy]

PS - I'm not telling any of the meat-eaters!!!

I can understand you not wanting to say anything and having to deal with the backlash of comments....eg "Ohhhh see WE KNEW that vegan diet that you're on wasn't healthy!!!" Despite the fact that their own omni diets are actually the unhealthy diets.

[treaclemine]

Hi, Korn,

I know you've done a lot of research on this. The Vegan Society strives to publish only scientifically reliable advice. The nutritional advice is based on the research review behind the book, "Plant Based Nutrition and Health" by Stephen Walsh.

It would be very useful to discuss the current state of knowledge about active vitamin B12 in food with Stephen Walsh. Have you posted a summary on this forum of the research on reliable determination of active B12 content in vegan foods? (If so, I should be able to find it.)

Thanks!

[Korn]

The Vegan Society strives to publish only scientifically reliable advice.

If they do, they shouldn't post info about the B12 reliability in plants that haven't been tested for B12, should they?

No, I haven't written a summary. I plan to, but I'm afraid I'll end up with writing a book instead, because there's so much info and IMO so many important things to consider (and inform about) that isn't even mentioned eg. on The Vegan Society's site or in the book you refer to. Many other vegan sites are unfortunately much better at putting things in perspective than TVS's site.

The sentence "The only reliable vegan sources of B12 are foods fortified with B12" would be a perfect slogan for someone who wants to reject the idea of veganism before having learnt anything about it, and seems almost as it is designed to make people immediately lose whatever interest they have in going vegan - and there is no scientific evidence anywhere to back that sentence up.

Trust me, I've tried hard to figure out whether the kind of research needed to back up such a statement exists - it doesn't.

If I remember right, the book you mention doesn't even have a dedicated chapter on B12, but on homocysteine, and totally fails to inform it's readers that there is no consensus, no 'official truth' about the relationship between B12, heart disease and homocysteine. (Check our main thread about homocysteine!).

Even if it were an agreed-upon truth about this, it is IMO extremely important to put things into perspective ("Would vegans have healthy B12 levels if plants had 'enough' B12 in a world with so many B12-antagonistic chemicals everywhere?", "How does vegans come out in terms of nutrient levels compared with people on a mixed (plant/animal based) diet?" and so on). The Vegan Society hardly mentions these issues...

The nutritional advice is based on the research review behind the book, "Plant Based Nutrition and Health" by Stephen Walsh.

With all due respect, it doesn't seem to be much research about B12 mentioned in that book, it ignores a lot of essential information about B12 and B12 analogues, and IMO totally lacks perspective in this area. The book is probably pushing many of it's readers away from the idea of going vegan.

I'll try to post a summary of my B12 findings when I have time, hopefully next month, a kind of "If you only want to read one page about vegans and B12, read this one"-article. Or maybe two.