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Thread: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

  1. #1
    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Default dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    whether this issue comes from eating a high fruit diet over a period of years i don't know but i was talking about upping raw in a diet with a friend yesterday and told her of my strictly fruit and mostly smoothie breakfasts. she said did i drink it through a straw as she heard that much of a fruit sugar hit in one go can cause dental decay. isnt it the same as eating a bowl of fruit salad though?

    anyone have any ideas of experience of poor dental health with a high fruit diet?

  2. #2

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    Default Re: dental health & hygene

    I've seen adverts on TV recently for toothpastes that are supposed to strenghten tooth enamel and eating citrus fruits and drinking fruit juice are mentioned as being a cause of enamel erosion. They are trying to flog a product though so they might be over emphesising the problem.

  3. #3
    Aradia's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygene

    I've heard that a lot of raw fooders have dental decay problems (on pro-raw websites included). This is because they often eat a LOT of fruit ... and dried fruits are particularly to blame.

    Drinking through a straw could help ... but I've also heard young folk shouldn't overdo straw useage, as it can encourage teeth to become "bucked".

    Would brushing teeth after eating a fruit smoothie help?

    But I must say, I eat masses of fruit and I've got very good teeth (in strength terms ... cosmetically they are bog standard )

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    Default Re: dental health & hygene

    I've read that just rinsing your mouth with water or a mixture of water/baking soda within 15 minutes of eating acidic fruit is enough to remove the acid and stop erosion. I think that new enamel strengthening toothpaste is just another gimmick to make people buy something they don't need.
    "Man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills" - Arthur Schopenhauer

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    sponge's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    I just read yesterday that you SHOULDN'T brush your teeth right after you eat or drink something acidic. It seems your tooth enamel is most vulnerable at that time and brushing your teeth will do damage. I'd think the rinsing that yoggy mentioned would be the thing to do.

  6. #6
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    I generally rinse my mouth with water after eating things like bananas and other hybridized fruits as the sugar content is elevated (google hybribized fruits for more info), non hybridized stuff like apples, pears, regular oranges, lemons etc don't cause me any issues.

    If anything my teeth feel and look heathier now.

    The natural digestive enzymes in your mouth should be able to deal with any traces left in there normally, however the hybridized fruits contain so much more sugar and I think this where you get the issues discussed above.

  7. #7

    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Yeah, I have often wondered about this myself. It's hard to tell truth from fiction anymore on some of this stuff. I think that rinsing would be good though.
    Hi, by the way. I signed up here in August but never posted. I fell off of the wagon but I am on again. I eat about 85% raw right now.
    Hope that I can find a home here.

  8. #8

    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    I have started to brush with tooth soap. I really like it. It makes your mouth feel fresh and it has no flouride, sodium lauryl sulfate, silica, or any other baddies.

    So why is a dangerous chemical like sodium lauryl sulfate used in our soaps and shampoos?

    The answer is simple - it is cheap. The sodium lauryl sulfate found in our soaps is exactly the same as you would find in a car wash or even a garage, where it is used to degrease car engines.

    In the same way as it dissolves the grease on car engines, sodium lauryl sulfate also dissolves the oils on your skin, which can cause a drying effect. It is also well documented that it denatures skin proteins, which causes not only irritation, but also allows environmental contaminants easier access to the lower, sensitive layers of the skin.

    Perhaps most worryingly, SLS is also absorbed into the body from skin application. Once it has been absorbed, one of the main effects of sodium lauryl sulfate is to mimic the activity of the hormone Oestrogen. This has many health implications and may be responsible for a variety of health problems from PMS and Menopausal symptoms to dropping male fertility and increasing female cancers such as breast cancer, where oestrogen levels are known to be involved.

    Products commonly found to contains Sodium Lauryl Sulfate or SLES

    Soaps
    Shampoos
    Bubble-baths
    Tooth paste
    Washing-up liquid / dish soap
    Laundry detergent
    Childrens soaps / shampoos
    Stain Remover
    Carpet Cleaner
    Fabric glue
    Body wash
    Shave cream
    Mascara
    Mouthwash
    Skin cleanser
    Moisture lotion / Moisturiser
    Sun Cream

    To find hair, personal and household products without ANY SLS or other harmful chemicals, please click this link - SLS-free products.

  9. #9
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    What link?

    It's not used because it's cheap, it's used because it has a purpose, if products were used because they were cheap they'd just use dirt.

  10. #10

    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Yeah, the purpose is to cause foam.

    Oops, the link did not show up. Here's a link to the website that I found it at though.

    http://www.natural-health-informatio...l-sulfate.html

  11. #11
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    That sites hilarious, aids is not sexually transmitted and doesn't cause death, it's just a trick to get people to take toxic medicines?

  12. #12
    cobweb
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    all i can add is that i was bollocked by my dentist when my son was a toddler because he was mad for satsumas and clemantines, and the dentist said the enamel on his baby teeth was getting seriously eroded by it.

    you can't win - now he hates most fruit and veg but he does have good teeth!.

  13. #13

    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    I didn't read the thing about the aids , just the sodium lauryl sulfates.

  14. #14
    [LMNOP] ellaminnowpea's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    SLS does have a purpose, the pharmaceutical companies use it in drug formulation when making solution for their products. I'm not sure about the health effects, but it hurts like hell to breathe in... I'd stick with the toothpaste with the least number and most whole, natural ingredients you can find.
    “I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship.” ~ Alcott

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    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    I posted in the fluoride thread that I am going back to using a fluoride free toothpaste. I've found a vegan fluoride toothpaste called Dr Ken's and it contains no SLS. It says so on the box. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it in case anyone is interested.

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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    does anyone know of a vegan and BUAV approved toothpaste for babies?

  17. #17
    Yoggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    I've been wondering about this. Many apes, especially gorillas, eat a high fruit diet, and their teeth are fine. I wonder why humans are so susceptible to tooth decay on a raw diet, if it's the same diet as our closest relatives. (That said, I still rinse with water after eating fruit).

    *going to do some googling*
    "Man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills" - Arthur Schopenhauer

  18. #18
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Yoggy View Post
    I've been wondering about this. Many apes, especially gorillas, eat a high fruit diet, and their teeth are fine. I wonder why humans are so susceptible to tooth decay on a raw diet, if it's the same diet as our closest relatives. (That said, I still rinse with water after eating fruit).

    *going to do some googling*
    My opinion:

    Because we spend many years eating food that isn't natural and it weakens our bodies, it's same reason as all of the these wierd and wonderfull diseases and conditions don't exist in the wild.

  19. #19
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Yoggy View Post
    I've been wondering about this. Many apes, especially gorillas, eat a high fruit diet, and their teeth are fine. I wonder why humans are so susceptible to tooth decay on a raw diet, if it's the same diet as our closest relatives. (That said, I still rinse with water after eating fruit).

    *going to do some googling*
    Their lifespans alot lower than ours, and how do you know their teeth are fine? They also eat things like branches which we don't.

  20. #20
    cobweb
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    ^ i wondered that, Risker, they may have teeth falling out left right and centre!.

  21. #21
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Risker View Post
    Their lifespans alot lower than ours, and how do you know their teeth are fine? They also eat things like branches which we don't.
    I believe lifespan is irrelevent. Children are having dental issues younger and younger due to unnatural processed sugar diets. There is refined sugar in so many products these days even bread.

    A lot of these issues also stem from the body becoming acidic and then leeching calcium from the bones to balance out, teeth are of course bone, so they become weekend too.

    Unlike natural sugars like that contained in contained in fruit, refined sugar is not properly recognized by the natural enzymes in our mouth (in saliva) and this causes poor gum health as they are attacked.

  22. #22
    Yoggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Zero View Post
    I believe lifespan is irrelevent. Children are having dental issues younger and younger due to unnatural processed sugar diets. There is refined sugar in so many products these days even bread.

    A lot of these issues also stem from the body becoming acidic and then leeching calcium from the bones to balance out, teeth are of course bone, so they become weekend too.

    Unlike natural sugars like that contained in contained in fruit, refined sugar is not properly recognized by the natural enzymes in our mouth (in saliva) and this causes poor gum health as they are attacked.
    Yes but what about people who eat only raw food (no refined sugar) and still have dental problems? It seems strange that we're supposed to brush 2-3 times a day, and animals go years without brushing and don't have any problems (I've never seen a photo of a wild animal with rotting teeth).

    I did read somewhere that in the middle ages, tooth decay wasn't nearly the problem it is today. Maybe it does have to do with eating sugary food in childhood, and even people who go on to be 100% raw for years afterward might still have dental problems because of what they ate as children...(this is all guesswork of course). Going to do some more googling
    "Man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills" - Arthur Schopenhauer

  23. #23

    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Most likely, those who are raw and are having problems with their teeth is because of previous eating habits (like me). Mine are slowly improving on raw.

    Animals in the wild eat raw uncooked food and their teeth are fine. But domesticated animals, like dogs, who are given cooked food to eat suffer tartar and tooth problems like people do only to a lesser extent.

  24. #24
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Zero View Post
    refined sugar is not properly recognized by the natural enzymes in our mouth (in saliva) and this causes poor gum health as they are attacked.
    Not recognized? Eh? what does that mean?

    I was responding to a post about a raw diet anyway and lifespan is not irrelevant, the longer you live the more your teeth will decay.

    Quote belleadonna View Post
    but I have started to give them raw turkey necks for dinner. I give them a whole one that they gnaw and tear at. Good for their jaws and teeth I suspect.
    That's lovely, not really the sort of thing I wanted to read on a vegan forum though.

  25. #25
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Yoggy View Post
    Yes but what about people who eat only raw food (no refined sugar) and still have dental problems? It seems strange that we're supposed to brush 2-3 times a day, and animals go years without brushing and don't have any problems (I've never seen a photo of a wild animal with rotting teeth).

    I did read somewhere that in the middle ages, tooth decay wasn't nearly the problem it is today. Maybe it does have to do with eating sugary food in childhood, and even people who go on to be 100% raw for years afterward might still have dental problems because of what they ate as children...(this is all guesswork of course). Going to do some more googling
    If your teeth were severly weakened by eating refined sugar as a child then you could still have issues later in life, even if you have been eating raw for years, because you were never meant to eat the junk in the first instance, you just didn't know any better.
    Plus it really depends what those people are eating, maybe they are eating lots of dried fruit and not focusing on whole foods enough.

    Which is why I say do what works best for you personally. If something stops working make an adjustment, there is no instruction manual for what to eat you know? You have to figure it out yourself, it is a wonderfull journey if you let it be

  26. #26
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Risker View Post
    Not recognized? Eh? what does that mean?

    I was responding to a post about a raw diet anyway and lifespan is not irrelevant, the longer you live the more your teeth will decay.
    Your body doesn't properly know how to break down these unnaturally altered substances so it struggles and does it's best, in a lot of cases it can't break them down properly and needs to detox large parts of them.

    I was also responding to a post about a raw diet since thats what I eat (75% fruit generally) and my mouth has never felt cleaner or healthier

    As I mentioned earlier I believe prior damage and body ph (if acidic) is a very big factor.

    I don't think your teeth will decay just from being alive and eating I think the health of your teeth is quite representative of your internal health.

  27. #27
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Zero View Post
    Your body doesn't properly know how to break down these unnaturally altered substances so it struggles and does it's best, in a lot of cases it can't break them down properly and needs to detox large parts of them.
    Sorry but this just sounds like rubbish to me, especially as you put the magic word 'detox' in it, can you give a link to any credible sources that could make your statement clearer?

  28. #28
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Risker View Post
    Sorry but this just sounds like rubbish to me, especially as you put the magic word 'detox' in it, can you give a link to any credible sources that could make your statement clearer?
    Risker,

    Research a raw or fruitarian diet. Thats what I did in the beginning. I don't believe in modern medicine. I have some links saved at home to some doctors and other experts that advocate a raw diet I will post those later.

    Whats wrong with the word detox? If you accept the benefits of a raw diet (perhaps you don't?) then you will see that cooked food is carcinogenic the residue and mucus of which will be detoxed, I have been through detox so I can go off my personal experience of it.

    I don't really care about the science of it as much as I care for my own personal experience and the fact is I never felt or looked better in my whole life as I do right now.

    You can believe it is "rubbish" all you want, I just know what has worked for me

    Read some of the works of Arnold Ehret if you want a scientific account it's a good and interesting read whether you chose to follow some of what he says or not.

    Have a great day

  29. #29
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Terasa View Post
    does anyone know of a vegan and BUAV approved toothpaste for babies?
    Co-op do two i think.

  30. #30
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Here is a useful link, outlining problems with processed sugar:
    http://macrobiotics.co.uk/sugar.htm

    Talks in part about how processed sugar is treated as a treat by the immune system
    http://www.hps-online.com/foodprof1.htm

  31. #31
    [LMNOP] ellaminnowpea's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Risker View Post
    Not recognized? Eh? what does that mean?
    There are three basic kinds of CHOs: monosaccharides, disaccharides, and polysaccharides/ oligosaccharides. Through various enzymes in your mouth, stomach, and small intestine, the CHOs are broken down into monosaccharides - glucose, fructose, and galactose. The monosaccharides are digested (and usually absorbed) in the small intestine.

    The enzyme Zero is talking about, amylase is present in the mouth to breakdown starches into glucose. I suppose the refined sugar Zero is talking about is sucrose/ table sugar, which is a disaccharide of glucose and fructose monosaccharides linked together. The reason vegetables are preferable is that they are cellulose polysaccharides which acts as a structural CHO as fiber. Your body does breakdown simple sugars with sucrase, lactase, and maltase in the small intestine. Monosaccharides don't have to be broken down any further, but the reason simple sugars are to be avoided is that increased consumption leads to insulin resistance and elevated triglyceride levels.

    I think raw diets can be great. But there is a real concern for tooth decay in humans when intake of fruit sugar is high. It should be taken seriously. Just because some people haven't had problems doesn't mean that it won't happen to another.

    Well, hope that helped!
    “I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship.” ~ Alcott

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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote escarmalanes View Post
    Co-op do two i think.
    Thanks for the info Escarmalanes. I visited the coop and purchased one today. Thanks.
    Terasa

  33. #33

    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    OK.

  34. #34
    cobweb
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    a lot of people wouldn't agree that dogs 'need' to be fed on meat, though, belleadonna, and it was a bit unnecessary an image for us all.

  35. #35

    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone. That was not my intention. I will go away now.

  36. #36
    cobweb
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    you don't need to go away! - just explaining why it was a bit of a gross image!

  37. #37
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    I watched something on TV a couple of weeks ago where there was a debate between an Innocent Smoothie representative and a nutritionist (I think). Apparently, there is so much fruit sugar in a smoothie that it isn't good for your teeth. Drinking through a straw was suggested and also it was said that eating the fruit itself was better because you would be unlikely to eat as much as went into a smoothie. It was also suggested to eat your fruit in one sitting rather than spread through the day because your saliva can cope better with that. Obviously the Innocent guy said that it was better to have the smoothie than no fruit in your diet at all.

    I don't know what the answer is. Maybe don't eat fruit all year round? It wouldn't naturally be available to us after all.
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  38. #38

    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote cobweb View Post
    you don't need to go away! - just explaining why it was a bit of a gross image!
    I didn't mean forever!!

  39. #39
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote RedWellies View Post
    I watched something on TV a couple of weeks ago where there was a debate between an Innocent Smoothie representative and a nutritionist (I think). Apparently, there is so much fruit sugar in a smoothie that it isn't good for your teeth. Drinking through a straw was suggested and also it was said that eating the fruit itself was better because you would be unlikely to eat as much as went into a smoothie. It was also suggested to eat your fruit in one sitting rather than spread through the day because your saliva can cope better with that. Obviously the Innocent guy said that it was better to have the smoothie than no fruit in your diet at all.

    I don't know what the answer is. Maybe don't eat fruit all year round? It wouldn't naturally be available to us after all.
    Oranges ripen in the winter.
    Fruit could be eaten right off the tree or vine all year round if you live in the right place.

    Innocent smooties are pateurized (therefore cooked) so I would rather eat whole fruit. I do agree that an innocent smoothie is better than no fruit at all though.

    I prefer smoothies over juice because they contain the whole food not just one part of it.

    I am sure if you looked hard enough and did enough studies you could find reasons not to eat any food and then you would die.

    I believe in eating the food you consider healthiest, and most vital to you.

  40. #40
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Too much sugary food, or too much acidic food can make my teeth hurt. Raw pineapple actually makes my teeth feel the same way that coca cola used to. I wonder why that is.

  41. #41

    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    I think that it is the bromelein in the pineapple. If I eat too much of it my mouth and tongue starts to burn.

  42. #42
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    4 Year study by Dr. William J. Gies that basically shows natural acids in foods are not bad for teeth and states that fermented and broken down carbohydrates and sugars are.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...6E9C946296D6CF

    So it's relative to the type acid you are putting in your mouth, natures acid or man made acid. This is why I point to whole foods from nature as the heathiest and most vital.

  43. #43
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote Zero View Post
    Fruit could be eaten right off the tree or vine all year round if you live in the right place.
    True, but what if you weren't native to that place? Maybe we have different teeth according to where we, or rather our ancesters, live?
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  44. #44
    Zero
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    Default Re: dental health & hygiene on a high fruit diet

    Quote RedWellies View Post
    True, but what if you weren't native to that place? Maybe we have different teeth according to where we, or rather our ancesters, live?
    Interesting idea certainly, however I find that unlikely because teeth are bone and bones are the same regardless of where you are from.

    If you look at the China study for example that shows that bones can be affected by a particular lifestyle so if a certain type of lifestyle is prevalent in a specific area then it would likely have different effects on the health of those people and pass on traits to their off-spring, so I can see where you are coming from.

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