Responding to questions and comments from non-vegans

[amritab@yahoo.com]

I mentioned earlier, I keep my reasons to myself. I dont want to get into arguments and I dont believe in pushing my thoughts on others/. From politics to abortion, I believe I think and feel other than most "normal" americans. My question is is it ok to say you are vegan for personal reasons. or is that a rude answer? If so, whats a good and not smart ass way to answer.
Some recent comments at work (things are better for the most part, my colleagues could not believe the cake I baked was vegan and agreed to the chemistry of baking theory with me as I explained) annoyed me -
rabbit food (yes I ate a small salad even when I chowed down chicken before. God, my blood boils. I think pretending not to hear is the best, otherwise they get a kick.

[Artichoke47]

You don't owe anybody an explanation for anything, so no, I don't think that answer would be rude.

[amritab@yahoo.com]

thanks guys. I try to shake off anything they say. I remember right after I said I was becoming vegan (another mistake, wont do at any other job again, no one needs to know), I noticed my manager was like yum.. burger this that. I just ignored it because if I didnt , they would say, oh you are reading too much into it (inference - you are psycho). So I let it slide and it stopped. No one does that to me anymore. This guy is a retired army guy, obv conservative..I'll just ignore those comments I think its better.

[Korn]

Sounds smart to ignore the burger-talk....

Actually, it's bit odd to ask people why they DON'T do something. It should be the other way round! ("So you eat meat? Interesting... why do you do that???" )

'Why' is a much better question than 'why not', and 'Why vegan?' is actually a 'Why not'-question: Why do you not use animal products. The most interesting question is 'Why should we use them when we don't need to?', especially since using them causes ourselves and the animals so much harm.

[cedarblue]

i think subtle psychology can play an important part in what we say and how we say it. i actually prefer to say that i follow a vegan diet and low-impact lifestyle (sounds a bit pompous now i write it down now though!) rather than say i'm a vegan. i know its only reworded but i think how we say things can make a huge difference to how folk hear us and accept us (ie that we're not trying to be rude, aggresive, moody, offy, righteous etc)
to me following a vegan diet and low-impact lifestyle means i'm doing my best for what i believe in rather than setting myself up for critical analysis and probing by stating i'm a vegan which can sound a bit like i'm better than you??
thats what i think anyway

[globesetter]

i think subtle psychology can play an important part in what we say and how we say it. i actually prefer to say that i follow a vegan diet and low-impact lifestyle ...

I like this phrase - low impact lifestyle - I think it would make people stop and thing - now I just have to think of a snappy German translation


regards,
globesetter

[amritab@yahoo.com]

i think subtle psychology can play an important part in what we say and how we say it. i actually prefer to say that i follow a vegan diet and low-impact lifestyle (sounds a bit pompous now i write it down now though!) rather than say i'm a vegan. i know its only reworded but i think how we say things can make a huge difference to how folk hear us and accept us (ie that we're not trying to be rude, aggresive, moody, offy, righteous etc)
to me following a vegan diet and low-impact lifestyle means i'm doing my best for what i believe in rather than setting myself up for critical analysis and probing by stating i'm a vegan which can sound a bit like i'm better than you??
thats what i think anyway

Thats a good idea. I agree. In fact I am very comfortable around meat eaters and its not something that I take personally. There are so many issues that trouble me more than people eating meat. In a way, trying my bets to be vegan, has taught me a lot of emotional detachment. I also, am not a very strict, ingredient focussed vegan all the time, in fact, I will probably not tell anyone anything about it any more. I recently thought if I could kill an animal I would eat it, this leaves me with shrimp/scallops. So will I go around telling people that I think I can make an exception for shrimp/scallops? No. No one needs to know. In fact I think, we often get a bad rap because some of us do tend to attack non vegs or they feel insecure around us .. anyway, this has taught me the value of pragmatism. I sure wont joke about a choking chicken.. but I wont rant about what i can or cant eat.

[stephanie]

"So you eat meat? Interesting... Why do you do that???"
GREAT!! I want to try it now! a meat eater, where can I find a meat eater??

I'm often kind but often rude too and aggresive and moody. as a human being I can't be the perfect one but when you say you're vegan (or vegetarian) and you've been rude some time before people say "she is moody, does she lack vitamins? she is really a strange girl. her ideas are strange. we can trust her..." I'm TIRED being perfect because of veg. I want to be veg and rude, veg and aggresive, veg and kind (it happens). can we be a normal human being and make people know and like veganism?

[TheFirstBus]

unfortunitlly even if you said "I don't beleive in eating animal" that would bring forth argument. I just say "why do you eat meat"

[lolamako]

I would recommend reading the book Being Vegan, it helped alot with my issues twards non vegans. I often am shocked at the anger that people feel twards me when they learn of my lifestyle. Its like there disgusted that I dont eat meat, it doesnt matter that they asked me or that all I said was that Im vegan and nothing more, they still act like I attacked them. This book gave me a sense of calm in these situations. I even checked mine out from my local library.

[TheFirstBus]

I would recommend reading the book Being Vegan, it helped alot with my issues twards non vegans. I often am shocked at the anger that people feel twards me when they learn of my lifestyle. Its like there disgusted that I dont eat meat, it doesnt matter that they asked me or that all I said was that Im vegan and nothing more, they still act like I attacked them. This book gave me a sense of calm in these situations. I even checked mine out from my local library.

I have had people become angry with me which suprised me, people who most often said "its you life". One person when they heard about it said "you'll come to you senses soon enough" I said to my little borther who is a vegetarian "she has it wrong we have come to our senses"

[Buzzola]

I found this link VERY helpful http://www.veganstreet.com/veganlivi...fulsnappy.html

[Kuklasmom]

The "Vegan Street" Web site mentioned by Buzzola above is great, I'll agree.

I also recommend Carol J. Adams' book "Living Among Meat-Eaters." She specifically addresses many of the situations mentioned on this thread. There's also a section of vegan recipes!

Best regards,
Kukla's Mom

[gertvegan]

As mentioned by lolamako , the author of being vegan, Joanne Stepaniak has a few q and a's here http://www.vegsource.com/jo/qa.htm

[TheFirstBus]

Here is one. I get alot of "but animals eat other animlas its a part of nature" without getting into a long arguement just ask them "do you drink milk from other animals?? No other animals drink mild from other species". This simply presents a grand flaw in there arguement.

[DontJustDoSomething, SitThere]

"animals eat other animals its a part of nature"

Hi FirstBus, these people never have a good explanation about why they would copy the life style of a meat eating animal instead of a vegetarian animal. Or why they would copy only the diet of these animals, but not sleep naked in the forest, bark instead of talk, rape or have raw meat on the menu every day and never see a good movie. It's all about denial.

[gertvegan]

On the subject of "but animals eat other animals" , from www.animal-rights.com

In Nature, animals kill and eat each other; so why should it be wrong for humans?
Predatory animals must kill to eat. Humans, in contrast, have a choice; they need not eat meat to survive. Humans differ from nonhuman animals in being capable of conceiving of, and acting in accordance with, a system of morals; therefore, we cannot seek moral guidance or precedent from nonhuman animals. The AR philosophy asserts that it is just as wrong for a human to kill and eat a sentient nonhuman as it is to kill and eat a sentient human.

To demonstrate the absurdity of seeking moral precedents from nonhuman animals, consider the following variants of the question:
"In Nature, animals steal food from each other; so why should it be wrong for humans [to steal]?"
"In Nature, animals kill and eat humans; so why should it be wrong for humans [to kill and eat humans]?"

[TheFirstBus]

Hi FirstBus, these people never have a good explanation about why they would copy the life style of a meat eating animal instead of a vegetarian animal. Or why they would copy only the diet of these animals, but not sleep naked in the forest, bark instead of talk, rape or have raw meat on the menu every day and never see a good movie. It's all about denial.

Thats a good point. Not to mention if they were living in these standerds of nature where animals kill eachother then why are they using rifles and tools to hunt no other animal does that. The hole arguement is just one big flaw.

[Roxy]

Ok - I'm sorry if this one has already been discussed somewhere - but here's one that I've been faced with a couple of times.

"Plants are sentient too you know. It's been proven."

Help me out with an itelligent answer puhleeeez.

[TheFirstBus]

Ok - I'm sorry if this one has already been discussed somewhere - but here's one that I've been faced with a couple of times.

"Plants are sentient too you know. It's been proven."

Help me out with an itelligent answer puhleeeez.

Plants do not feel pain at least it hasn't been proven that they do. I think you can assume they don't. Sounds like an asses arguement to say something like that to you.

[gertvegan]

A snappy retort about plants and pain, from veganstreet.

You’ve got to be kidding me, right? You honestly equate the anguished thrashings of a cow hanging on the slaughter line with that of a stalk of corn ready to be gathered? The repetitive, compulsive swaying of an elephant chained in a circus car with emotional life of the hay with which she was fed? The tortured screams of a pig as the knife is dragged across his throat with a blade of grass as the mower hits it? You honestly do not differentiate despite all obvious indication that animal life and plant life are not equitable in terms of awareness and suffering?

How is it that you get through life? Understanding as you do that each adorable Brussels sprout on your plate has been beheaded with such wanton disregard? A house salad must be viewed as a murderous crime scene to a sensitive being such as you; a crudité plate must seem to be a veritable genocide. How is it that you’ve survived so long without fruits, vegetables and grains? If you do eat these things, how do you quell the voices in your head of all the plants you have plundered that shriek, "No! Not me!Please don’t take my life for a boring little stir-fry! Aren’t I worth more than that?!?"

So you’re either excrutiatingly sensitive or horribly sadistic. Either way, you creep me out. Next question?

[Roxy]

Thanks guys

I don't think I will ever forget the day that this girl at work, interested in the things I eat, asked me what I was having for lunch. I replied "vegetarian sushi". She said "well what about the seaweed - it was alive once".

Enought said.

[cedarblue]

A snappy retort about plants and pain, from veganstreet.

i love it!

[DontJustDoSomething, SitThere]

Did anyone read The Secret Life of Plants? You can read about it here or here. It's a very fascinating book, but contains no good reasons for mankind to starve itself to death instead of eating plants, which I guess would be the only alternative if one should not eat animals or plants, unless humans can live on light.

[ConsciousCuisine]

Yes, it is a fascinating book. I'm not about to become a breatharian though...

[negavert]

Y'know, if we can all live off of other people's insults, we'd be well-fed indeed...

[eve]

You made a good point there negavert, as the veg*n movement is well known for its attitude problem. It has been said more than once that if someone is insulting a vegan, you can be sure it's another vegan with a slightly different viewpoint. And the animus displayed towards veggies by vegans is astounding. Plus the animosity towards environmentalists who are omnivores; rather difficult to understand but nevertheless it exists.

[Michael]

Responding with questions like "why do you eat meat" is a really good idea, it will almost certainly ensure the conversation comes to a dead end quickly.

[John]

On the plants feeling pain subject:

While there is no reason to think that plants feel pain, they definitely suffer; their lives have been taken.

I can't fault the Inuit of years past for their omniverous lifestyle. It was the only method of nutrition available. Likewise, the 21st century vegan must be judged by her/his environment. It is simply less cruel to kill or imprison a plant than to kill or imprison an animal. Anyone who argues that is either a prankster or simple-minded. To me it seems that veganism is a path rather than a destination.

[gertvegan]

Even if plants do feel pain, why cause pain twice, the second abviously being the killing of animals fed on the plants.

[negavert]

You made a good point there negavert, as the veg*n movement is well known for its attitude problem. It has been said more than once that if someone is insulting a vegan, you can be sure it's another vegan with a slightly different viewpoint. And the animus displayed towards veggies by vegans is astounding. Plus the animosity towards environmentalists who are omnivores; rather difficult to understand but nevertheless it exists.

So true...it's sad, really. We're not going to make serious inroads in society as long as they continue to view us as being combatitive and self-righteous. I don't really understand it, either. All I have to do is think back to when I wasn't a vegetarian, much less a vegan. Except for the rare few who were raised by conscientious parents, we all started off as meatheads. It's like trying to stop and turn an aircraft carrier around. But we are slowly convincing more and more people, but we probably aren't going to see serious change in our lifetime, so we just have to be like elementary school teachers; we have to have unerring patience and compassion and then more people will be attracted to us that will become tomorrow's leaders in the movement.
Organized religion passes enough judgement onto people; we don't need to join them.

[TheFirstBus]

Let's think about this here. I don't mean to step on toes but I believe that Vegetarianism is a stepping stone to Veganism. So in all reality we should respect both sides Veggie and meat eaters because in the end it may be more productive to educate both sides in the ideals of compasion towards animals. We all get angry and thats fine, but we must do our best not to belittle anyone on a whole. Besides why burn veggies, the stepping stone is very important so as not to be overwelmed. I know I was when I didn't use the stepping stone.

[beforewisdom]

I can usually tell if someone is genuinely interested or if I am simply being used as the meal time entertainment.

If the later is the case, I simply say that veganism is just one of the most positive things someone one can do for many reasons....too much to go into while I am in the middle of eating.....but that I can recommend a list of books if they are interested.

That usually stops people who are not interested without stopping the few that I have met who are.

Steve

[Korn]

I can usually tell if someone is genuinely interested or if I am simply being used as the meal time entertainment.

That's what I've come to as well... some people simply are not interested and in those cases it's often better not to waste any energy on the topic...

[Kevster]

I usually say that i feel animals have as much right to live as humans. If it's a veggie asking i usually mention about male chicks, calves and cows that get killed after a few years when their milk yields decline, so pointing out why i'm not a vegetarian.

But it does depend on the reaction to my first point just how far i'll go into it,

[Artichoke47]

You guys know what I'm talking about - "So how do you get your protein," asked by the omnivore to the vegan.

Here are some responses:

"Whole grains, nuts, legumes, seeds, and vegetables. How do you keep from getting too much protein?"

"Nuts, legumes, seeds, whole grains, and vegetables. How do you get your vitamins?"

"Do you even know how much protein a person needs in a day?"

[ConsciousCuisine]

The same places a Cow gets hers! ( I mean, really...if they eat a cow's flesh for "protein", built by grass and grain, and no flesh foods then how could they feel we couldn't get enough protein from plant-based foods as well?)

[feline01]

Ugh, you brought back flashbacks. That is all I heard during my pregnancy from everyone except my husband and my ob/gyn. How about what is the average American/European doing about the abundance of animal protein in their diets which has been scientifically proven to cause heart disease, high cholesterol and high blood pressure?

[cowpie]

Are people still asking that question? I thought people were more educated now.
Hey, Artichoke....what part of Indiana are you in? I grew up around Terre Haute...

[Artichoke47]

I'm in Carmel, just north of Indianapolis.

I have a sister in Bonita Springs.

[foxytina_69]

people are stupid.

everybody who asks me that question and others tho are simply just curious and friendly and i explain it to them and they are happy, but follow it with how they couldnt stop eating meat because they love it too much but know that they should.

[phillip888]

What is protein? Ask them that, that's how I always start.

If they don't know (they rarely do), explain that protein is just a name for an amino acid combination plus other organic (carbon/water based) substances.

Now ask them which plant does not contain amino acids. Then remind them that plants have cell which existence require amino acids.

Now ask them, where you get your protein.

For gigles tell them that all the best and most abundant sources of protein are in fact plants(soy, spirulina, many seeds, many nuts, sea weeds, and many other beans are a good example).

Once you're all done, tell them humans need 5-7% protein in their diet to gain muscle mass, something a fruitarian can do easily...

[cedarblue]

What is protein? Ask them that, that's how I always start.

If they don't know (they rarely do), explain that protein is just a name for an amino acid combination plus other organic (carbon/water based) substances.

Now ask them which plant does not contain amino acids. Then remind them that plants have cell which existence require amino acids.

Now ask them, where you get your protein.

For gigles tell them that all the best and most abundant sources of protein are in fact plants(soy, spirulina, many seeds, many nuts, sea weeds, and many other beans are a good example).

Once you're all done, tell them humans need 5-7% protein in their diet to gain muscle mass, something a fruitarian can do easily...

i like it!

[phillip888]

"How do you respond to questions about being vegan?"

Well, I respond the same as any other question. with the truth. I certainly don't give in to the peer pressure to be quiet and submissive about my choices. I do the same when talking about human slavery (a huge issue right now), or war for profit. I simply state how I feel. If the person you're talking to is heavily indoctrinated, and can't understand even the simplest statement outside their programming, just tell them it's personal, or you don't think they can comprehend your reasons (in whichever way will make them go back to their pre-programmed routine) and don't take it personally, they're not acting on their own thoughts anyway.

Of course if someone wants to make you a fun time during a meal, don't hesitate to speak frankly about animal based meals without using masking words (call 'meat' dead bodies, cadaver, etc). When they start saying you're forcing your views on them, remind them of their willingness to ridicule them and tell you you should eat dead animals, and the point before about vegan lifestyle being the lack of cruel action is always a good perspective t present, if they can comprehend such complex concepts.

Lastly, keep in miind that citizens of imperialistic countries often do not have the concept of ethics(on a personal level), so an argument based on ethics may in fact just gain more riducule from them, strengthening their beliefe that might works for them. The thing about the 'might makes right' mentality is well, you can't fight it in any other form than physical domination, you can only subvert it. That's what boycott and changing people you can connect with is about.

[cowpie]

It's too bad you get harrassed at work. Some people wave meat in front of your nose to get a rise out of you. I don't know that I could ignore that ignorance, but it would save an argument that'll go nowhere with someone like that. I think I'd arm myself with factual information, such as the health benefits of a vegan diet, and lay that on them. Many people, sadly, don't care about the animal abuse involved, so I wouldn't hit them with that. I think Korn's suggestion about you asking them why they eat meat is a good one. That puts them on the defensive, instead of you.

[GwynneVeg]

"How do you respond to being a vegan"

I attended a conference recently with Dr. Lisle, the author of The Pleasure Trap. He made several suggestions, but one response that can be useful is, "It seems to be working for me"

[Mal87]

Ok - I'm sorry if this one has already been discussed somewhere - but here's one that I've been faced with a couple of times.

"Plants are sentient too you know. It's been proven."

Help me out with an itelligent answer puhleeeez.

as soon as i hear "but plants have..." i know what's coming, and i have to start praying for patience. it is so hard for me to stay calm when someone says this to me. it's just so frustrating. sometimes i feel i'm surrounded by stupidity. (i just realized that sounded really arrogant) but i hope you know what i mean..just the dumbest arguments sometimes. just smart-mouth remarks. it's very frustrating

[veganblue]

why do they always say that??? I just started to think about it - ppl that say "well plants have feelings too..." are trying to defend their diet of creatures that we *know* have feelings, by making out that all things can feel so treating animals poorly is okay since it is unavoidable!!

We all know that plants do not have a central nervous system or nervous which is an essential requirement for 'feeling' - neither do they have anything that represents a brain to be able to interpret the concept of pain.

On the other hand try to tell me that an animal does not feel pain? that a chicken, cow, pig or fish does not have the ability to suffer, feel fear and pain? How can anyone justify eating animals on the argument that plants *may* feel pain when they know animals do???

Grrrrr.

[gothic_ana]

People are afraid of wht they consider not to be normal.
hense they will pick at you and whtyou belive cos they are scared to now thereal reasons of why you do what you do and if you tell them they pick at you anyways cos they dont understand.

i hope that made sence.

i get picked on all the time when i was vego im kinda sceard to tell my partners family im now vegan.
but this is me and you are you.
if they dont like, love and respect you for you they aint worth knowing!

[gothic_ana]

if people constantly telling u garbage and doging on you tell them to take a przac and a long nice warm bath and get a good night sleep and you will talk to them when they are sane again. i did that once and they knew dont push that button again cos im serious.