Responding to questions and comments from non-vegans

[Nivvie]

I actually donated some milk back when my daughter was born. I myself felt rather like an engorged, in pain cow, and the midwife said they needed donations of human milk to give to special care babies whose mothers can't produce.

There are some women out there who regularly donate throughout their whole breatfeeding phase.

[snaffler]

hi, i'm new at being a vegan, and i need some advice.

i've been a lacto-ovo veggie since march 2003 and decided that the natural transition is to become vegan. i just couldn't support the dairy industry anymore.

my parents ask me these questions and i never know what to say to them, so i need some help.

the questions :

"if we didn't eat animals, they would over-populate the earth".

"if we didn't drink milk, the cows would burst"

to me, they are absolutely ridiculous statements to make and i really need a reply to them.

thanks for your help and i can't wait to get to know everyone on this board

Hi and welcome to the board ok one thing at a time

"if we didn't eat animals, they would over-populate the earth".

Ok almost all animals pn this planet that are produced for food are factory farmed and over produced at an alarming rate and pumped full of cancer causing growth hormaones. If we the world went vegan tomorrow and the animals were let free evolution would slow down. Most species will not produce futher offspring if it can not feed the ones that are alive now.

The world would not become over run it would even out and as a whole we would have more food to go around as the amount of grain used to feed one beef cattle for example could feed a lot more humans for longer.


"if we didn't drink milk, the cows would burst"

Cows produce masses of milk due to the way they are factory farmed the above is an old misconception remember when you are born and your mother decides to to breast feed you for one reason or another ? - I have never witnesses an exploding mum.

Cows will not over produce Milk if they have to much on board they have ways of loosing it, remember they to were around before factory farming and mass produced milk machines that suck every last drop from the cow 2 or 3 times a day. That is not healthy or normal for the cow to have this done to her.

I hope that helps along with all the other great answers here

[Nivvie]

What really gets me about those onmi questions is the amazing short-sightedness.
This planet's been bouncing around for a good long while, and we haven't been here that long, and been factory farming for even less time. It is ridiculous to assume that our methods cannot be reversed.

Don't people ever ask themselves what happened to sheep before we took their wool, to cows before we took their milk?

Do yaks, goats and buffalo casually explode in the wild?
Do wild sheep become so enormous with wool that their feet no longer touch the ground and they just roll away?

I told someone the other day how cows and sheep, yes sheep, as not native to New Zealand. We took them over there.

'That can't be true? How did they survive' she wailed.

You all know how I answered that one.

[Caitlin]

Go to peta.org.. on the left go to FAQ and look under Vegetarian/Vegan.. Those are the questions specifically asked

[greenworlds]

I say to people, would you drink a woman's milk?

That makes me wonder why some people in India respect the cow so much ...is it because they drink the cows milk and confusing the cow for their mothers?

[Gliondrach]

I think almost every issue has been covered here, but I think you should suggest this scenario to your "friend" the "meatard" (I'm sorry if that seems rude, but I love it! Thanks Evilfluffbunny!).

Ask him to picture himself in Africa where man originated. Lets give him a break and let him have a spear. He sees a herd of wildebeast with those fantastic eyes of his while he is standing upright, but a pack of lionesses see the herd at the same time. He starts to charge the herd at the same time time as the lionesses. Who does he think will get there first? Both the wildebeasts and the lionesses can run faster then he can, and even with a spear he really is no match for a large herd of frightened wildebeast, so who is going to be easier to catch for the lionesses? Even if the lionesses choose a wildebeast over this guy, does he really think he's gonna walk right up and get some away from the lionesses, especially if they have cubs to feed? He isn't even going to be able to get the scraps away from the hyenas who are waiting to scavenge what's left. If he's lucky to get a bit of muscle meat, which is the least nutritious part of any animal, (the organs and stomach contents are the first choice amongst true carnivores) he gonna have to let it hang and rot for a while before he can get those incisors to work on it anyway, and he's gonna have to defend even that from the vultures and wild dogs. Some anthropologists do believe that our ancient, diminutive, four foot tall ancestors could not have acheived our present brain size without animal protein, but they claim it was obtained from scavenging bone marrow after all the real carnivores had gotten all the bests parts from the animals they hunted and killed. Eating meat isn't just about who is biologically suited to digest it, but who is the most successful at competing for it.

The human being is not the ultimate predator, we are the ultimate parasite!

I laughed when I thought of the scene imagined in this reply. The bloke sees the wilderbeestes and, with a cry of: 'Wilderbeestes!' he runs towards them, like the mighty hunter that he is. Then, he sees the lions. A panic takes hold of him and in a cloud of dust he has dropped his spear, has turned tail, and is last seen heading for the hills as fast as his bipedal gait will allow.

[Mozbee]

It's nurtured into, them same as in the uk most people would see it as bizarre to eat a hamster or robin but wouldn't bat an eyelid at the suggestion of eating pig or chicken.

[Morna]

When my friends (people who accept and respect me) ask, I'm more than happy to tell them. If someone who has given me reasons not to trust him or her asks, I'll say something like "For personal reasons" or if they keep asking "I don't feel comfortable discussing this with you."

[lil_miss_tashwa]

sorry if this has being posted before but anyhoo, how do you respond to the 'well, if we didn't use animals for food where would we put them?' comment?

[Mr Flibble]

Simple - we'd stop breeding them. Most breeding isn't done naturally in UK farming anymore. Either it's done by artificial insemination or leaving a male animal with a set of females for a certain amount of time when normally they would be seperated. I very much doubt any national switch would happen instantaneously - it would happen over time, so breeding would just be slowed gradually until there's no longer a demand.

[herbwormwood]

sorry if this has being posted before but anyhoo, how do you respond to the 'well, if we didn't use animals for food where would we put them?' comment?

The non vegetarians are actually causing the destruction of our planet and the poor farm animals are the problem.
http://www.viva.org.uk/guides/planetonaplate.htm

explains it in detail

Obtain a copy and give it to your friend to read (or the person who asked you the question).

[Artichoke47]

On earth, where they belong (alive).

If we stopped using humans as breeders, think of how much land there would be!

[gertvegan]

well, if we didn't use animals for food where would we put them?

Question 30 from THE MANUAL OF ANIMAL RIGHTS

We would be overrun with livestock?

There are huge numbers of farm animals but it is not as if they would ever be let loose overnight. They are only farmed in such large numbers because it is profitable. As vegetarianism and veganism grow so the demand for meat will decline and farm animals will be bred in decreasing numbers. Those that are left will undoubtedly be will cared for by a society that has put compassion before taste and profit.

[RedWellies]

"if we didn't drink milk, the cows would burst"

Those cows which have been bred for high milk yields probably would have serious health problems, such as mastitis, if they were left unmilked. However, as has been pointed out, milking would not suddenly stop overnight.

[TheBluePenguin]

Ok - I'm sorry if this one has already been discussed somewhere - but here's one that I've been faced with a couple of times.

"Plants are sentient too you know. It's been proven."

Help me out with an itelligent answer puhleeeez.

Anything that has a central nervous system, or comes from something with a central nervous system, is not okay to eat. This always works with the "plants have feelings too" non-argument. Besides, the only reason anyone will give this is denial and an attempt to justify eating dead flesh.

[eclectic_one]

Those cows which have been bred for high milk yields probably would have serious health problems, such as mastitis, if they were left unmilked. However, as has been pointed out, milking would not suddenly stop overnight.

Actually, in a cow's natural state, the cow would have just had a calf and the calf would be drinking on a fairly regular basis--numerous times a day (not just the twice a day most dairies do)--and I'd almost bet the cases of udder infection would decrease greatly.

[stef]

Well most of my friends accept that I'm vegan so don't really question me much. But the one thing that gets me more than anything else is when a friend offers me something to eat and I turn it down, I usually get the response "Oh I forgot, you can't eat that can you" to which I always reply "Yes I can eat it, but I choose not to"

[laurin]

I try to answer it with the facts, and a personal reason. Just so they get a solid answer.

My friends are curious, my family thinks I'm being "obsessive".

[pat sommer]

with self effacing humour........ and a few gruesome statistics...... 1 in every 100 pints of milk infected with bovine TB (map virus)

[Bluey]

Usually they just want to know if it's for ethical reasons or not. I just say it is...both animal rights and environmental. That usually shuts them up or you start getting the iron and B12 questions

[Roxy]

The most annoying question that I've been asked a few times, right off the bat is "Where do you get your protein?" Aaaargh! I feel like saying "Where do you get yours?"

[alec153]

lol 2rd time 2day ive been asked the "wat if" q's from my friends, who love nothing better than to find holes in my veganess (all good natured of course)
so i thought maybe we can kinda make a section for snappy comebacks (sry if there is already) the 2 i got 2day were "what if you had to eat a steak for/to save lives/money(to be donated to others)", or "would you eat a chicken if you were starving?"
To you brains trust, my lame combacks of "tht would never happin you fools" are gettin well... lame

[twinkle]

I think you've got a fair point with the "that'll never happen" comeback, myself

It depends what your aim is really - are you trying to just get them to stop bothering you? Or would you like them to consider why they aren't vegan?

[alec153]

nah i dnt really want them to stop, because the more they talk about it, the more a few others who hear about veganism seem actually interested, wat i really need is just somthin that will make them go waahhh??? basically to end the stupid q's which im not tht good at answering
plus the make them consider why they arnt lol

[saucyvegan]

If anyone asks me if id eat say, a chicken if I was starving...I always say, of course I would. If I was in the wild and had to kill to survive, then I would. The fact is, we dont have to eat animals to survive.

[pat sommer]

A: probably the same thing you would do if the creature was a[insert endangered species/pet].

they answer first

[Risker]

A: probably the same thing you would do if the creature was a[insert endangered species/pet].

they answer first

Or relative.

[Maisiepaisie]

"what if you had to eat a steak for/to save lives/money(to be donated to others)",

I would eat meat if someone paid me enough. Of course I would pay the money to an animal charity. I think most vegans would as the main reason for veganism (for most people I think) is to save animals.

[twinkle]

I would eat meat if someone paid me enough. Of course I would pay the money to an animal charity. I think most vegans would as the main reason for veganism (for most people I think) is to save animals.

I doubt it.

I wouldn't eat an animal no matter how much someone was offering me because, for one thing, I don't deal with blackmailers.

[Poppy]

so i thought maybe we can kinda make a section for snappy comebacks (sry if there is already) the 2 i got 2day were "what if you had to eat a steak for/to save lives/money(to be donated to others)", or "would you eat a chicken if you were starving?"
To you brains trust, my lame combacks of "tht would never happin you fools" are gettin well... lame

Hello alec153... Just last night I found a vegan website with exactly what you've asked for...'snappy comebacks' it's www.veganstreet.com There's a great 'snappy comeback' to one about being starving on an island. Scroll down to 'vegan living' and here it says "thoughtful answers and snappy retorts to stupid questions people ask vegans" there's a choice you can give the thoughtful reply or the snappy one Anyway hope that helps x
Let me know what you thought of the 'chicken one replies' x

[alec153]

thks heaps for helpn, i think im gona try the relative one lol

[Poppy]

thks heaps for helpn, i think im gona try the relative one lol

Good luck with it x

[Lydia_Sorrow]

Someone tell me...how do you answer the "humans are meant to eat meat because they have eyes on the front of thier head so theyre hunters, not prey" argument?

[alec153]

lol tht vegan street site is pretty cool, i liked their snappy response to my chicken dilema

"How did a lone chicken get on the island? Perhaps he’s a mirage, brought on by my diet-induced protein deficiency. Or perhaps this scenario was faced by the second cousin of a neighbor of a friend of yours in college after she went on the run from the coppers after throwing red paint on little old ladies in faux fur? Is this one of those funky islands with the plants that experience recognizable emotions? That’s fascinating! What else can one find on this island? Vegans who wear leather shoes? The diary you kept when you were vegan for a week and you could not eat one single thing and your skin turned bright yellow like that of a lemon? Are Skipper, the Professor and the rest of the S.S. Minnow crew on the island, still trying to construct elaborate machines out of coconuts only to be foiled at the last moment by the highjinks of a certain accident prone but lovable sailor?
Maybe you should go visit this island. I hear the weather’s fabulous."

[alec153]

thx poppy

[UrbanVegan]

Someone tell me...how do you answer the "humans are meant to eat meat because they have eyes on the front of thier head so theyre hunters, not prey" argument?

The same eyes can plant a garden and eat that just the same.

[Kevster]

Thought this was interesting if applied to veganism or perhaps more so anti vivisection:

'Top scientist gives up on creationists

James Randerson, science correspondent
Tuesday May 30, 2006
The Guardian

A leading British scientist said yesterday that he had given up trying to persuade creationists that Darwin's theory is correct after repeatedly being misrepresented and, he said, branded a liar.

Speaking at the Guardian Hay festival at Hay-on-Wye, the evolutionary biologist Steve Jones spoke of his frustrations when trying to debate with religious opponents.

"I don't engage with creationists directly," he said, saying that, when he had, they had frequently quoted him out of context or accused him of lying. "If somebody has decided to believe something - whatever the evidence - then there is nothing you can do about it." [...]'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/st...785654,00.html

[sheri beri]

This is the question I get always....How do you get your protien......and I say the same thing everytime, protien is in everything you have far more concerns getting too much then not getting enough.....

[moochbabe]

i still always find it amusing when people ask me about my protein. the thing that i got that surprised me the other day (and it's pretty hard to surprise me with questions about veganism these days) is a guy thought that plants only include lettuce and that that is all i ate. i just looked at him dumbfounded. it definately didn't help that i thought he was grose (and old) and he was trying to pick up on me

[sheri beri]

i still always find it amusing when people ask me about my protein. the thing that i got that surprised me the other day (and it's pretty hard to surprise me with questions about veganism these days) is a guy thought that plants only include lettuce and that that is all i ate. i just looked at him dumbfounded. it definately didn't help that i thought he was grose (and old) and he was trying to pick up on me

MB, how about this, It comes up in conversation i'm a vegan, they say I used to be a vegetarian, I got sick and my doctor told me to eat meat...I say what did you eat??? I ate alot of salads..I ask what kind of salads ???You know iceberg lettuce, tomatoes and stuff...hmmm i say, well you know veganism is a eating philosophy you may want to read up on it if you ever try again...all too often one calls themselves a vegan because they eat iceberg lettuce and french fries from wendys.....lol

I just read yesterday there are 10million vege-vegans we definitly aren't the main stream.. I also read that this will be the first generation that will not be shunned for choosing to eat in this fashion and our kids will know what it is...so we have come a long way baby....

[VeganJohn]

a guy thought that plants only include lettuce and that that is all i ate. i just looked at him dumbfounded. it definately didn't help that i thought he was grose (and old) and he was trying to pick up on me

PMSL!!

I once got told that the only decent source of protein was red meat. Plant protein apparently 'didn't work' the same and was useless to the human body

[sheri beri]

Lmao :d

[Haniska]

I was talking to my older brother about his viewpoint on religion recently and somehow in the mess we got talking about killing animals for food. He basically told me in many words that the earth ends up destroying species all on it's own, so their is no reason to stop eating meat.

His logic was that life on earth is a cycle and that human life can only last for so long; same for all the other life on the planet. It is through destruction of species and the natural environment that will give opportunities for different life to come. SO..we might as well destroy other life (animals, plants, forests, insects) because it is inevitable. BUT the good news he said, was that some life form (bacteria) will be able to survive and life will go on. I'm not too sure if he realized what he was saying, but I did...and I walked away and cried. I knew their were people who thought like this but I had no idea that my brother was one of them.

I didnt know what to say to him...how can I argue with someone who seems to lack compassion for life. It was very scary. And the weird thing is that he says he's anti factory farming and anti - fast food, but he still eats meat from these places.
Have you guys ever run into somebody like this? I love him to death but I cant seem to look at him the same since. It's really bothering me.

Come around to asking him if he would kill them himself. Of course be warned that you may not like his answer
Also there is the question of is it okay to murder people since "they will die anyway".
If he then says that he has to kill them(animals) for food that is ridiculous but in my experience you can only get one point acrossed per argument.

[sindii]

I got/get alot of flak from my family and if im eating round at my mates some stupdif/annoying remarks.
It's my trainer and managers who don't understand me most, always telling me to get meat down me or won't be fit and strong yet im superfit and always throw that back at them.

I used to know a few so called veggies at college but then realised non were, they were the "i eat fish/chciken sometimes."

[codebug]

I told my sister months ago that I stopped eating meat. She didn't get it the first time, as I mentioned it a few days ago and she was shocked. I seem to get the usual question about eating fish. I never liked seafood, anyway. She asked if I ate soy foods, which I do, but I have reduced the frequency of soy foods, in exchange more grain.

[lillyveg]

I got a good one today from a woman working in a health food store. Upon telling her that I was vegan when I asked for an ingredient list on a product, she responded:

"You are creating lots of obstacles for yourself." Then she started going on about how she used to be a vegetarian and that she, as she grew older and wiser, realised that eating meat was ok. Note that she was only in her mid-thirties whilst I am 19.

She gave me the usual lecture about vitamin deficiency and told me how I made my life very difficult by choosing to live a vegan lifestyle.
All this was done in a very condescending and smug manner. It made me feel so bad and insecure up until the point where I actually excused myself for being “demanding customer”.

Thinking about it now, the anger boils inside me. I should not have to excuse my lifestyle choice and have to endure a lecture from someone simply because I ask for something in a polite manner. I really want to go back to that store and set that woman straight because she made me feel inferior and uncomfortable!

What do you all think would be the right approach for telling that woman that I am not ashamed of being a vegan, even if it entails being a “demanding customer”?

[pat sommer]

depends on what you want to get out of the encounter...

sometimes I feel the need to 'cut them down to size' for all the lip I tolerate:
"oh, is there anyone else here that could wait on me today because I have had all the rudeness I can handle this week"

if you are feeling rather saintly and superior the 'motherly concern' approach:
"are you feeling better today? I sensed last time that you needed to unload some of your hostility. Maybe today you're ready to be more helpfull" -best in a soft voice standing uncomfortably close.

whatever the response best not get dragged into a debate rather smile blissfully and insist on getting the shopping done; failing that, a shrug and "I'll take my business elsewhere".

[Steph]

I got a good one today from a woman working in a health food store. Upon telling her that I was vegan when I asked for an ingredient list on a product, she responded:

"You are creating lots of obstacles for yourself." Then she started going on about how she used to be a vegetarian and that she, as she grew older and wiser, realised that eating meat was ok. Note that she was only in her mid-thirties whilst I am 19.

She gave me the usual lecture about vitamin deficiency and told me how I made my life very difficult by choosing to live a vegan lifestyle.
All this was done in a very condescending and smug manner. It made me feel so bad and insecure up until the point where I actually excused myself for being “demanding customer”.

Thinking about it now, the anger boils inside me. I should not have to excuse my lifestyle choice and have to endure a lecture from someone simply because I ask for something in a polite manner. I really want to go back to that store and set that woman straight because she made me feel inferior and uncomfortable!

What do you all think would be the right approach for telling that woman that I am not ashamed of being a vegan, even if it entails being a “demanding customer”?

Lillyveg, in my opinion f*ck her. I would be as pissed as you, but you know what? You DON'T have to excuse your lifestyle choice and you certainly don't have to feel inferior or uncomfortable for what you know what is right for you and animals. Unfortunately, she is one of many who will critcize you on your chosen way of being vegan, I, like this woman, am in my mid-thirties, and I would feel as angry at being "lectured" at as you are at nineteen. And I still get the lectures and opinions and excuses at my age, almost daily, even with people I love.

And you know what I found out? By choosing to be vegan, I've not created more obstacles or hardships, I've actually simplified my life, if you can understand. My head is lighter, my heart is lighter, my diet is lighter (but much more yummier). I think we have to take opinions of meateaters with a grain of salt, because as an eight year vegetarian and almost 2 year vegan, nay-sayers will always harp on our choices. But screw them, I'm sick of it, their words now fall on deaf ears with me. Do what you know is right, forget about her, unless you want to tell her off, which, I would not even waste my breath on this woman. But learn from this, and remember this encounter, and the next time someone lectures, be prepared, speak up in a positve way, defend your choice and move on.

[Russ]

I usually find a right hook to the jaw deals with such undesirable people as described above.

[Russ]

Something up there reminds me of this guy we ran into on an Oxford demo once.

"I can understand vegetarianism, but saying NO animal products at all, I think is just missing the point."

Heh heh. Yeah. Missing the point.

He went on to describe how ancient civilisations and tribes have always eaten meat and we cannot just dismiss their (incredibly sophisticated) ways of living by not eating meat now.

I mean honestly. Is our measuring stick for civilisation now the ignoramuses who lived five thousand years ago, who ran around declaring war on each other, making human sacrifices etc.?

Then he went on to say how he doesn't support battery farming but he still eats meat. Nice consistency. I guess he does support battery farming. Or maybe he buys "free range organic" meat. Hahahaha.

His final argument before I kicked his ass was that he likes cheese too much. Apparently it goes too well with wine for him to consider the millions of sexually abused cows and veal crates.