Dear non-vegans / non-satisfied members....

[Korn]

Hi everybody,
you may not have noticed this, but we had a 'disgusted' (new) member here not long ago. I normally don't do this, and won't tell you who it was, but only to avoid to have to spend time on similar situations in the future, I'll post my last post to this person below. I believe and truly hope that you understand how moderators and admins on a site like this need to prioritize their daily tasks - this was sixth followup post I sent him/her...

Re: I really can't believe you just left

Since I was trying to clarify my non-extensive statement, you could have at least had the respect (you mention respect a lot in the FAQ) to let me know you would be returning, instead of just leaving.

No, I couldn't - because I was way over my schedule, and again: my life is centered around what I find most important, not around the odd member who wants to change the board rules and want top, emergency priority and complains that I can't follow up on his complaints in less than 20 minutes.

I don't even have time to explain people why I can't let go of everything else and give them top priority. If I should have done that, the first thing I should have done yesterday would be to tell OTHERS why I spent time on you instead of on them. I simply can't commit myself to the follow-up you demand, or promise each member of this forum that I'll always give them top priority or at all times explain why I cant give them top priority. Again - I and a few other mods run this site in our spare time, for free.

Are you sure you think this is hard to understand - especially after you started to defend the idea of killing and eating animals? Normally, we simply just ban people who do this, and will have to continue to do this. And - trust me - to claim that you defend eating meat AND are a vegan doesn't help at all.

There is nothing wrong with someone eating animals if they are doing it in an educated fashion while still trying to eliminate the bad aspects of farming (battery cages, etc.).

This is a vegan forum, and I'm not interested in spending time here, on this site, hearing about why people don't think it's wrong to kill and eat animals under the circumstances you describe. A main reason for starting this site is to offer a place where people who disagree in such statements can communicate with each other without being interrupted by people who for some reason want to defend/justify eating meat, in an 'educated fashion' or not, amongst vegans.

It detracts from the vegan movement by having people continually try to force their opinions down peoples throats.

Sure, but if you eat and kill an animal in an 'educated fashion', the animal won't even have a throat. Who is forcing whom then? Since this is a vegan forum, we don't force these opinions down someone's throats here, because we are all against eating animals. What we don't want, is that people who disagree with the very core of 'the vegan message' - namely that we don't think it's right to kill or eat animals, log in here and 'force their opinions down our throats' after having agreed in our rules - who clearly describe that this is something we don't want.

IMO this is far worse than me thinking someone who compassionately eats meat is still a compassionate person.

That's a very good example of why I changed your account type to 'Not Currently A Vegan'....

I think it is regrettable that I can't voice my opinion about this.

You can voice your opinion as much as you want, but not on a forum for vegans only, because your viewpoints are not vegan. Plus - wouldn't it be better for everyone if you rather registered at a non-vegan forum and voiced your opinions about why you support the vegan viewpoints you actually agree in?

...you should at least be able to discuss the decisions you make.

This is my last post, but isn't it odd that while I have been discussing your complaints with you in five posts already - within a time span of three hours, you complain that I don't respond fast enough and tell me that "I should at least be able to to discuss the decisions I make"? You have gotten more immediate 'support' than most people get when they actually pay for support!

Plus, since I cant always answer the PMs I get immediately, I prioritize posts from people who are vegans and who generally like the idea that we don't want anti-vegan 'propaganda' here. You have attacked me in PMs, posted in the public area about how you dislike our moderation, and even used your profile to post how 'disgusted' you are with how I moderate the site. You are even telling me that "I really can't believe you just left' after 20 minutes (when I left the forum for other things I needed to do yesterday).

All this (please see our FAQ again), combined with your viewpoints on eating meat means that you'll not get a normal member status here. If you ever get involved with running a forum with thousands of members and three and a half moderator, you'll hopefully understand me.

Happy journey.

Best,
K.

[sugarmouse]

Who the **** was that what a weirdo!(for want of amuch better description)
You do a fantastic job, Korn, IMO.

[RedWellies]

"three and a half moderator"

Half a moderator? Sounds painful!!

[yum]

poo to them!
This site is incredible support for vegans and i love going on here. I think you do an excellent job
x

[sandra]

I agree............you do a great job Korn. I wouldn't dream of sending you unnecessary pm's as I know how busy you are with the forum.
I think I've only sent you about 2 or 3 pm's in the almost 2yrs I've been here.
You're saying 'Thank goodness for that!'

[Hemlock]

What a tedious self righteous person!!!

[Pisces]

Cheers, Korn!

As for that person, "unbelievable" is more than an understatement at my reaction to what he/she said, which I am lost for words as to how to say them.

[xrodolfox]

That was a lot of patience for a rather annoying person.

[sandra]

What a tedious self righteous person!!!

You weren't referring to me were you Hemlock?

[Hemlock]

You weren't referring to me were you Hemlock?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, You must have posted 5 nanoseconds before me, your post wasn't before mine when I wrote that

[sandra]

Ha ha! time must be going haywire on the forum, my post says 18.35 and yours is 19.13...................anyway, I was only joking!
It's just my Northern Irish sense of humour, I know you weren't referring to me!

[cedarblue]

i'm very non non-vegan and non non-satsified as a member! geddit??

[horselesspaul]

Korn, as ever, respectful and explicative.
Ridding the VF of nutjobs, one at a time.
Thanks.

[rantipole]

You did a wonderful job with that Korn, and you were far more patient than I ever could have been.

Cheers,
rant

[missbettie]

Korn, you are fabulous. This is always such a happy, relaxing place, thanks for keeping the weirdos out!

[cobweb]

i'm very non non-vegan and non non-satsified as a member! geddit??

very witty!
Like your new avatar, btw

[walnut]

I thought you handled that very well Korn.

[sponge]

Great job, korn. You stuck to the facts and handled the poster and his/her complaints expertly.

[Healthy]

Yes, great job!

I must say I LOVE this forum. Everyone here is so respectful of each other. I've been coming here almost 6 months now and not once did I see any immaturity or flame fights.

Bravo!

[eco]

The work that goes into maintaining this forum must be astronomical. At the risk of sounding sycophantic I think Korn and the moderators do a very good job of keeping it a very pleasant place to be. If people don't like the way a forum is run perhaps they should start one of their own and then they'd appreciate the time an effort it takes to run it and the fact that a forum is there for the benefit of all it's members and not just for certain individuals.

[dreamqueen]

I don't think I would have had your patience, Korn. I think you gave this person more than enough chances to figure out what kind of forum this is. Good work, dude.

[Korn]

Since this member claimed to be vegan (he probably saw 'vegan' something which was only about diet, and not about viewpoints), I probably put more energy into this than I otherwise would. Veganism is still new to most people, and we've had people who defend using honey, eggs or meat before and still thinks that this is vegan –*since I happen to be the admin here, I use the opportunity to let people know that unlike eg. macrobiotics, there's no meat or fish ever in vegan food - not in vegan cookbooks, and not in any vegan cafes. Vegans are people who avoid animal products for a reason, and not only people who happen to avoid animal products - but not everybody know this yet...

Anyways - thanks for the support, everybody! When someone (like in this case) is busy telling me how disgusted he is with the moderation here, it's good to know that you guys and girls understand why we have the 'restrictions' we have. (They aren't really restrictions - they're just methods to make sure this site remains being a forum for vegans - as most of you know already.)

[sandra]

Exactly Korn............we do understand they are methods to make this site the great vegan site it is..........we wouldn't want it any other way, once again thank you!

[trizzle3]

They aren't really restrictions - they're just methods to make sure this site remains being a forum for vegans - as most of you know already.)

Not to bring this pat korn on the back thread off topic, but there are things that people discuss in this forum that other people believe not to be vegan. Everyone has their own opinions on this definition, which makes it difficult for even vegans themselves to agree on an exact definition.

[Korn]

Sure - we have discussions about a few things that some people think is vegan and others think isn't. This does not include "can honey, eggs, meat be considered vegan".

No vegans claim that there's nothing wrong with someone eating animals "if they are doing it in an educated fashion" - period. One cannot just take a random definition and just make into into something very different "because there are discussions about other topics".

People disagree about the border between India and Pakistan, but not about the border between India and Germany, because these countries aren't even close to each other - the same way as eating meat in an education fashion isn't even close to veganism.

We actually ban people who try to use this site to make veganisn into something else than it is and always has been, and the bad news for you is that since you are logging in from the same IP address as the person we discuss in this thread (who wrote about passionately eating meat, and eating meat in an educated fashion), I expected you to post what you just did , and expected you to post it in this very thread, so we'll deactivate your membership. I'm 99% sure you are the same person, and even if you are not, there's no room for discussing whether educated, passionate meat eating should be a part of veganism - it's simply not up for discussion.

Sorry (kind of), and good bye.

[walnut]

http://www.vnv.org.au/site/index.php...d=48&Itemid=59

"Why be Vegan?

It is obvious to many meat eaters why most people become vegetarian, i.e. they don't want animals to be killed to provide them with their food. But many people can’t understand why anyone would become vegan: "Animals aren't harmed or killed in the production of eggs or milk so what's the issue? It's too extreme and you're just being difficult/petty. Being vegetarian is bad enough, why be so restrictive in your diet and miss out on all these yummy foods..."
For those who are not sure, a vegan excludes all animal products from their diet. The vegan diet comprises vegetables, vegetable oils, cereals, legumes (beans), nuts, fruit and seeds. This is not as "boring" as it sounds due to the wide range of meat alternatives, non-dairy milks, soy-based yogurts and ice-creams, biscuits, chocolates etc. available that are completely free of animal products. (For more information refer to our Great Vegetarian & Vegan Products page.) Most vegans also exclude animal products from their entire lifestyle (e.g. wool, leather, soaps that contain animal fats, products tested on animals etc.).
As we all know, everyone has their own views, opinions, thoughts and concerns about different issues, including diet and lifestyle. People therefore become vegan for different reasons. But to generalise, some people are vegan for health reasons, some for animal welfare or ethical reasons, and others for a combination of these reasons."

[Korn]

some people are vegan for health reasons

Some people eat vegan food for health reasons, they don't avoid leather for health reasons, and - and this is relevant to this thread - they don't avoid only certain types of meat. I guess the reason VNV get this wrong is that it's a vegetarian, and not a vegan site.

As we all know, everyone has their own views, opinions, thoughts and concerns about different issues

This is the kind of mentality that is the reason that so many vegetarians who order vegetarian food is asked "But you do eat chicken, don't you?". People can have all the opinions about what they want, but it doesn't make sense to start to use the word 'red' for 'green' - it only blocks communication.

[veganlinda]

http://www.vnv.org.au/site/index.php...d=48&Itemid=59

"Why be Vegan?

..... As we all know, everyone has their own views, opinions, thoughts and concerns about different issues, including diet and lifestyle. People therefore become vegan for different reasons. But to generalise, some people are vegan for health reasons, some for animal welfare or ethical reasons, and others for a combination of these reasons."

A shame they weren't more specific about the animal welfare or ethical reasons as it seemed to vaguely suggest we were all just picky people ... unless of course the article was heavily edited.

BTW nice one Korn.

[emmy]

This moron is lucky he got you replying to his idiotic PMs and not me!
Blimey.
How on earth is it OK to think meat-eating is OK if you're vegan?! LOL.
Dear oh dear...

[journey]

Korn, please keep doing what you do - you do it so well. You were more patient on this one than I'd have been...

I hope you always keep this forum moderated in the way you have - it's nice to have a vegan site where we can talk with each other, ask advice, vent, learn from other people who really are vegan, etc without having to argue about what the problem is with eating eggs, wearing wool, etc.

There's plenty of vegetarian and other sites out there where people can have those discussions, and some of those sites can be useful in helping to educate vegetarians and potential vegans. But it's really nice that you're keeping the purpose of this site as what you have defined it.

We need a place where we don't have to defend veganism. This site serves that purpose well.

[Korn]

We had a another new member this week who claimed to be a vegan but couldn't see anything wrong in using cheese or milk - if it was organic - is if vegan was mainly about the organic-ness of products, and not mainly about using animal products in general. I'll probably just point him/her to this thread, because I'm going to spend as much time with people who defend using animal products and claim to be vegan as I did in the case I described in the first post in this thread!

A while ago, some also stated that nothing was wrong with killing animals and eating meat, as long as the meat was organic. Unfortunately, it seems that we're not there yet where everybody knows what being vegan is about...

[cobweb]

it does amaze me that people join (or even look for) a vegan forum if they don't even know what 'vegan' means. I think you're quite right just to point them here, Korn.

[Korn]

Well... they could be trolls look for a heated debate, for instance by saying that they are vegans but can't see anything wrong with using organic animal products, in the sense that they don't use these products themselves, but still are vegans.

But: a vegan is a person who avoids animal products for an ethical reason, not just someone who avoid animal products 'because they aren't vegan since they are animal products'. I almost asked the person I just mentioned why he don't use organic milk/cheese if he doesn't see anything wrong with it, but luckily I didn't do it.

If people want to troll stir up a discussion or defend use of animal products here, they may think that this is possible if they at the same time claim that they are vegans... but it isn't!

Asking questions is totally fine, but since this is a site for vegans, we just don't need any longwinded arguments discussing why we think using milk or meat is wrong - organic or not - and we have threads like Arguments against dairy products already...