Levi (Evil) Bellfield

[emzy1985]

Levi Bellfield is the guy on the front page of the sun today who killed Marsha McDonnell, Amelie Delagrange and is now suspected of killing Millie Dowler in 2002. He is also suspected in many other violent crimes, rape and intimidation.He thought of women as things to abuse. Two things sprung to mind when I have read about him. He liked to hunt rabbits and he also liked to have sex with them. Many people say that serial killer tendancies can be seen in hunters. What do you guys think?

[Mr Flibble]

I'd say it's tenuous at best. Sure, if you like killing non human animals you may like killing human ones, but I'd put the percentage at extremely minimal. I'm sure there's a *lot* of huntsmen who've never wanted to kill a human.

What's the ratio of murderers by vegans vs hunters, by population of each? I wouldn't be suprised if it was about the same - we've as many nutters as any group of people. Bus drivers? Postmen? Doctors?

I've heard people shout things like "pedophiles!" at huntsmen before. Seriously; it just makes them look dumb (like a 7 year old calling another 7 year old a tosser - do they really know what the word means?) and rather rude. I don't see the link.

[Marrers]

I believe a link has been shown but it is much like the 'soft drugs lead to harder drugs' thing. Many people who use harder drugs have used soft drugs in the past. But not all soft drug users will go on to hard drugs.

Many murderers have shown cruelty to animals in their past. But not all animal abusers will go on to murder humans.

[emzy1985]

I'd like to know those stats aswell Mr Fibble. Would be very interesting! I kinda agree with you Marrers. In the way that such desecration and disregard for life in an animal could be linked to the association that human life is worthless. Afterall many of us vegans value animals as much as our human kin, myself included so why couldn't it be the other way around.

Something from personal experience for you. My family has been involved in fostering and adopting children for the past ten years. EVERY SINGLE ONE in that time period has come from a home where if they were abused so were their animals. Children = helpless = animals. I've heard horror stories over the years with regards to what kids have gone through.....and then the kids tell me that mummy and daddy used to do it to the dog/cat/rabbit/hamster aswell. I'm not saying that it is fact, just from my personal experience with relation to child abuse and animal abuse.

Thoughts & theories?

[cobweb]

My theory is that there is a DEFINITE link because, in order to enjoy torturing an animal a person must be deficient in empathy and sensitivity. Some human murders are obviously 'crimes of passion' but cold-blooded killers must have some sort of compassion deficiency .

I agree, Emzy, I have come across people who are cruel to their kids and their animals too many times to think that it's just a coincidence. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a hunting link, but cruel people could come from any walk of life. My mother, a middle-class surburban housewife who 'loves animals' was extremely cruel to me. She also drowned my pet Guinea Pig in a bucket of water when I was 10 years old. She appears to me to be completely lacking in compassion .

I think that any child/young person who shows tendencies towards cruelty to animals needs serious therapy and monitoring. Ignorance is one thing, but meditated torture is quite another level of evil.

[gogs67]

Levi Bellfield is the guy on the front page of the sun today who killed Marsha McDonnell, Amelie Delagrange and is now suspected of killing Millie Dowler in 2002. He is also suspected in many other violent crimes, rape and intimidation.He thought of women as things to abuse. Two things sprung to mind when I have read about him. He liked to hunt rabbits and he also liked to have sex with them. Many people say that serial killer tendancies can be seen in hunters. What do you guys think?

You're saying this guy had SEX with rabbits??????Am pretty sure most hunters dont go that far!
Much as we all disagree with hunting i'm sure we can see a distinction between a guy who hunts for sport and one who hunts for sexual gratification.

[annabanana]

Well Hitler was vegetarian, so I guess he didn't hunt either.

[bryzee86]

no he wasn't. That was spin so that his doctors shut up about him eating meat which aggravated his stomach conditions.

Thought you might like to know.

[Jiffy]

Well Hitler was vegetarian, so I guess he didn't hunt either.

This is the last place I expected to hear that hoary old chestnut.

IIRC he had a particular penchant for wood pigeon.

[cobweb]

He had a dog that he apparently loved, too, and a mistress/wife - he must have been ok then, maybe it was all just a big lie about him being an evil despot! .

[mjnewbould]

Hitler certainly seemed to be an anmal lover - he had cats as well apparently. He was also supposed to be a non-drinker but he did have the occasional glass of schnapps (I'm not sure how to spell) so I can well beleive his vegetarianism was a bit relative as well. There have been serial killers who have had pets also - Dennis Neilson - who killed quite a number of young men in the eighties - I think - had a dog he was very fond of. So though there may be a trend it is not necessarily true in every case.
one of the things that always worries me about people convicted of murder etc is the thought - supposing they've got the wrong man?

[xJimx]

Not sure about the hunter-rapist link, but this scumbag is the best argument I've heard lately for the reintroduction of the death penalty.

[cobweb]

I just wonder how anyone knows whether these people are inherently evil or purely insane, e.g should they be locked in a prison or a high-security hospital. I have every sympathy with the victims and their families of course, but surely a person must be mad to enjoy hurting others?.

[gogs67]

I just wonder how anyone knows whether these people are inherently evil or purely insane, e.g should they be locked in a prison or a high-security hospital. I have every sympathy with the victims and their families of course, but surely a person must be mad to enjoy hurting others?.

He is very close to his mother seemingly,troublingly close,doting on her since his father had died when he was young.That seems to be a trait repeated in a good few serial killers.According to police,although he was unattractive he was extremely charismatic and had a string of girlfriends,11 children from 5 different women,but displayed the same behaviour with all of them.

Detectives tracked down a number of ex-girlfriends, who all described a similar pattern of behaviour when they got involved with him.
"He was lovely at first, charming, then completely controlling and evil. They all said the same," said Det Sgt Jo Brunt, who spoke to several of them.
After a couple of weeks of them being together, Bellfield would take their mobile phone and swap it with another which contained only his number, saying it was all they needed.



He would then stop them from seeing friends, parents or going out without his permission, and would constantly phone to check what they were doing

The courts obviously thought him sane and his behaviour in not going to court because of 'bad publicity' would seem to bear that out,so if he's sane then we must just conclude that he is just a vicious amoral person!

[cobweb]

I think he must be INsane to avoid going to court because of bad publicity - doesn't the think he may get a bit of that anyway?;-).
I s'pose I just find it quite painful to imagine that there are people around who know what they do is wrong but do it anyway because it gives them some kind of perverse satisfaction. That is so scary..............

[gogs67]

I think he must be INsane to avoid going to court because of bad publicity - doesn't the think he may get a bit of that anyway?;-).
I s'pose I just find it quite painful to imagine that there are people around who know what they do is wrong but do it anyway because it gives them some kind of perverse satisfaction. That is so scary..............

Yeh,i was looking at it in the way that someone who is INsane wouldn't care about what happened in court but he obviously did (he still denied the charges all the way through) saying it will influence the trial which seemed the actions of a sane person.
But by the sound of it his self importance was so large he could have well assumed it was the world that was wrong and not him and he had every right to feel hard done by by the press attention,self-centered,egotistical-yes,insane-no!
Thankfu;;y people like that are few and far between,it just seems the opposite because of the media attention!

[emzy1985]

Not sure about the hunter-rapist link, but this scumbag is the best argument I've heard lately for the reintroduction of the death penalty.

The death penalty should never be brought back! Who are we as a society to decide who lives and who dies. He has killed so why stoop to his level, make him a marytr and kill him. He should rot in jail, doing hard labour for the good of society, for the rest of his life. Life should mean life! Not 10 years with a playstation 3 and day trips out on a private plane. However when someone meditates killing people like Bellfield, no sentence, death or not will deter him. He wanted to kill those girls because of his inherent dislike of attractive blond girls and women and maybe so serious sanity issues.

As for general crime, anyone who knows anything about sociology, which our politicians obviously don't, knows that if society are well off there is less crime. People go out and drink to the extreme to get away from problems, or because they can't afford to do anything else. Kids form gangs because they are poor and most will never achieve anything acedmically because working class kids are most likely to be work learning orientated which this government fails to provide extensively. They then feel useless, form gangs to feel important or have babies. Drugs - most people do drugs to escape from their problems alot related to debt. Theft, stabbing, rape, mugging, some murders, domestic violence etc etc can all be linked back to the fact that the working class and lower middle class are less well off than ever.

With relation to what I have just said, most (not all) of the abused children I know have come from low income families. They don't have any money to do anything except buy animals and feed themselves. (which often they neglect the child and the animals too.) Maybe the feeling of importance and control when all else in your life is shit can lead to abuse of children and animals, pyhsically and mentally.

Instead of fighting crime, drug abuse and alcohol abuse maybe this government should start with the source, at home where people are so tightly squeezed and feel useless. Maybe they should reduce taxes on things that affect how we live the most eg council tax and income tax then up taxes on the aviation industry etc. Maybe they should offer more work based learning/ less acedemic qualifications instead of making kids believe university is the be all and end all and if you don't get there you are a failure. Maybe then they would see a reduction in the crime rate, murders and all!

RANT OVER

[xJimx]

You're preaching to the choir here, I've spent my whole professional life either teaching or working for a well known charity that supports young offenders. Every day I see how this (and former) government's avarice, stupidity and idiotic spending priorities cause so many of the problems we see in our society.

The vast majority of young offenders are kids who've been dealt a shit hand in life & never stood a chance. Very different from sick bastards like Bellfield & Mark Dixey. I really don't see the point of keeping people like these 2 alive, though hopefully they'll get what's coming to them inside.

[emzy1985]

So what is your theory on the death penalty and how it would work to prevent crime Jim?

[xJimx]

I'm not saying that the death penalty would serve as a deterrent. If you look at the violent crime rate in many countries where the death penalty exists, and conversely the relatively low crime levels in many countries where capital punishment is not used, then clearly this would be a stupid argument.

However, what's wrong with using the death penalty simply to punish, whilst saving the taxpayer millions in the process?

[absentmindedfan]

I find this man's misogyny and violence incredibly disturbing. Why are there so many male serial killers? What is wrong with our society that allows some men (a disturbed, violent and thoroughly unpleasant minority of course) to think that women can be abused and murdered for whatever reason they wish?

I know there are female serial killers and murderers, but not as many. I just wonder what it is about the makeup of our society that makes this the case.

[emzy1985]

However, what's wrong with using the death penalty simply to punish, whilst saving the taxpayer millions in the process?

Because no human, especially not the STATE, has the right to decide whether a living creature lives or dies. I as a taxpayer am happy to pay for these people to suffer in jail for the rest of their lives. What I am not happy with is them having luxeries whilst there victims corpses rot!

AMF - Maybe this minority of men see women as weak and therefore feel the need to exploit them?

[gogs67]

I find this man's misogyny and violence incredibly disturbing. Why are there so many male serial killers? What is wrong with our society that allows some men (a disturbed, violent and thoroughly unpleasant minority of course) to think that women can be abused and murdered for whatever reason they wish?

I know there are female serial killers and murderers, but not as many. I just wonder what it is about the makeup of our society that makes this the case.

Someone like Bellfield's actions seem to stem more from his upbringing rather than what influences 'society' have had.I'm sure his disturbingly close relationship with his mother after his father died when he was young had a direct influence on his emotional growth and understanding of empathy to others!Not in any way an excuse but may be part of the reason.

[snaffler]

the huntsman are bad but the ones more likely to physically harm human animals and have sex with them no matter of gender are the Terrier Men pure inbred evil with a capital E

[emzy1985]

the huntsman are bad but the ones more likely to physically harm human animals and have sex with them no matter of gender are the Terrier Men pure inbred evil with a capital E

I second that!

[Mahk]

I know there are female serial killers and murderers, but not as many. I just wonder what it is about the makeup of our society that makes this the case.

I believe the answer is patriarchy mixed with testosterone. This is also why we have war, aggression, rape, sexual servitude, "spousal"/partner abuse (guess which sex is predominantly the abuser?), and a bunch of other maladies.
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[Would someone please explain to me, an ignorant American, what a "Terrier man" is.]
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However, what's wrong with using the death penalty simply to punish, whilst saving the taxpayer millions in the process?

Think how much more we'd save in tax money if we execute all prisoners. Not a good argument in my mind.

What's wrong with the death penalty is it is irrevocable and convictions aren't 100% accurate. Jail time is unpleasant but at least if we later discover an inmate to be innocent after all, we can release them. But an executed person cannot be brought back to life.

Did everyone see the Harrison Ford movie "The Fugitive"? That story is representative of what I'm talking about. Some times the pleas "The one armed man did it" are true! I've heard that re-opened cases of convicted murderers that have had recently developed DNA evidence applied show a staggering 20% false conviction rate! Even if the false conviction rate was one tenth that rate (yeah right) that would still mean we've executed hundreds of perfectly innocent people over the years.

[fondducoeur]

I agree with you Mahk...its so scary to think about people who are wrongfully accused and how it can end or ruin an innocent person's life. Besides, I don't feel we have the right as humans to decided to take the life of any other living thing, including another human.

[cobweb]

Mahk, personally I think the point about the Terrier Men is a wee bit irrelevant on this thread, but they are basically thugs who go along to Fox Hunts with their little Terrier dogs to dig out Foxes who are seeking refuge in their Earths so that the Hunters can chase and kill them (the Foxes). Sometimes the little Terriers get attacked by the frightened Foxes but as they are expendable commodities it doesn't matter .

Terrier Men are generally happy to do any other kind of dirty work, too, that involves a lot of blood and death.

I used to have the 'pleasure' of knowing a Terrier Man who worked in a Primate Holding Centre through the week and was a Terrier Boy at the weekends. It wouldn't suprise me if I learnt he turned out a serial killer. Of course he actually already was but because it was 'only' non-humans it didn't count .

[Roxy]

For anyone interested in discussing the death penalty, we've got a whole thread about it here.

[xJimx]

I agree with you Mahk...its so scary to think about people who are wrongfully accused and how it can end or ruin an innocent person's life.

Yes, I agree too. But to be pedantic, what you're arguing against here is the reliability of convictions that may lead to the death penalty, not the actual act itself.

As I alluded to in a previous post, some of the posters here seem to be implying that all offenders should be treated equally i.e. that serial sex offenders & murderers should be treated in the same way as other offenders. I feel this is rather insulting to the vast majority of people who offend, who, whilst obviously not being model citizens, are no more like Bellfield than you & I.

[Blueberry]

Hmmmm, thought about posting here a lot, decided ok...

Levi was in my year at school and I dated him when we were 21. He practically lived with us anyway. There was a rumour when we were growing up that he had sex with his cousin's rabbit, but it was a rumour. He used to fish, and I think I remember him having an airgun, but to be honest most of the lads did round there anyway. He was always a gentleman... I was stunned to see his face appear 20 years later as part of a murder investigation. The press got in contact with me (how, to this day I will never know, did they get my name and number) but I couldn't tell them anything. His mother was a matriarch-type, domineering. He certainly didn't spend much time at home because of her! But it was interesting that when Amelie was murdered, I did look and think "Gosh she looks like ***** Bellfield!", that being one of his sister's... His brother the weird one of the family.

I don't think it was animals that led him down the path he chose. A girl was murdered on our school field, Patsy Morris, when she was 14. I think we were 12ish, and she went out with Levi. (Everyone had a crush on him at school, he wasn't handsome but small and cute). I don't think he had anything to do with her death, but I remember him saying he'd seen it happen... no one listened.

Trying to speak impartially, I'd hate to see the death penalty re-introduced. I wouldn't want to be on the same level as people like Levi. And I've always thought that someone else then takes a life... and just because it would be within the law, doesn't make it a moral killing. Killing, of any living creature, is wrong.

I'd like to see life with hard labour introduced instead. Prison doesn't seem like hard work to me...

[leedsveg]

I used to work with quite a few people who were related to, or knew Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper and they all said what a nice chap he was. One of them asked Sutcliffe if he'd walk his wife home from the pub so that she'd be safe getting home! Just shows that people are not always like what they seem on the surface.

lv

[sandra]

Yes, human nature has many facets, and some humans are very strange to say the least. I love the way humans say stuff like, 'He/she behaved like an animal', to describe violent or barbaric behaviour when in reality they are just 'behaving like humans'.

[emzy1985]

Wow! I forgot I'd even started this thread! Randomage!!!!