Vegans and eggs: here's the short, one-paragraph version!

[Korn]

Hi all,

our thread about vegans and eggs are now closed.
It's also very long - it contains more than 400 posts.
I've started this new thread in order to offer a very short explanation to non-vegans, lacto-ovo vegetarians and others who have questions about why vegans don't use (organic or non-organic) eggs at all: not from free range chicken, not from from rescued hens, not from organic etc.


If you want to post why you don't eat eggs at all - using not more than ONE paragraph only - please use this thread. If what you are about to post a reason that already has been mentioned in this thread, please don't post it again, unless you have something new to add...

This thread is only meant to be a very short and efficient way for non-vegans to get access to a list of the various reasons vegans have for not eating eggs of any kind, and not meant to be a new discussion thread.

Thanks!

K

[Korn]

1) Vegans don't eat any eggs at all, because taking an egg from a bird stimulates it's impulse to lay new eggs, and we think it's up to the chicken, and not us, to decide/control how many eggs a bird shall produce.

[Korn]

2) The main reason that vegans won't eat any eggs at all, is that whatever 'good' reasons one possibly would produce for eating it, one could always give the 'justified' eggs to someone (non-vegan) who otherwise would have bought eggs from a factory farm. This way, we would reduce the total amount of eggs bought from factory farms, and reduce the support for anyone who is taking eggs from birds (and thereby stimulates their impulse to lay more eggs).

[bryzee86]

3) We're not "meant" or "designed" to eat them, physiologically.

[cobweb]

4) they contain animal tissue

[Ruby Rose]

5) All chicken rearing (even organic, free-range hens) involve the killing of 'useless' male chicks, and the shortened lives of the laying birds when egg production dwindles - often they are killed after only a couple of years, where their lifespan would otherwise be around 9 years.

[Astrid]

6) Because it's exploitation of a living, feeling creature who cannot defend herself.

[Roxy]

7) They are unhealthy.

[Mahk]

8) Bird menstruation? No thanks, I'll pass.

[veganfit]

I look at eggs as the same thing as an unfertilized woman's egg; if unfertilized, it passes through and is discarded; thus, a bi-product, waste material. It is waste matter unless fertilized, thus, a premature unfertilized baby chicken. Now that I am vegan, it makes NO sense to me to consume the egg of any animal. The smell of cooked eggs even turns my stomach when I think of where they came from. Something to think aobut!!

[rosierayes]

First time I've heard humans aren't 'designed' to eat meat physiologically. Where'd you get that source of information from?

[Korn]

This thread is only meant to be a very short and efficient way for non-vegans to get access to a list of the various reasons vegans have for not eating eggs of any kind, and not meant to be a new discussion thread.

First time I've heard humans aren't 'designed' to eat meat physiologically. Where'd you get that source of information from?

Dear Rosierayes,
this thread is about eggs, not meat, and is meant as a short list of reasons why vegans don't eat eggs. Please have a look - if you use the search function (try Search Tags), you'll find that we have many posts about whether humans are 'designed' to eat meat already!

[littlewinker]

9. One of the points of veganism is to live independantly of animals.

[Fungus]

Hens are specifically bred and strained to produce much more eggs than naturally - in the wild, hens lay only a few eggs every month if that but in farming conditions they lay over 250 eggs a year, putting huge strain on them, both in their overall health and mental health.

[horselesspaul]

Ask the chicken.

[veganfit]

First time I've heard humans aren't 'designed' to eat meat physiologically. Where'd you get that source of information from?

To Rosie: also: keep reading about veganism: What someone wrote is true: vegans goal is to live independantly of animal products; do your research. It might make more sense to you then. Regarding meat: It is shown that people who consume large amount of animal products such as meat have a much greater risk of colon cancer as our intestines are very long and are not meant to digest meat and no, we do not have canine teeth. We have more in common with monkeys (DNA wise) and check out their diets! Meat: it is what is rotting in your colon. If you look at the other non-human animals in the animal kingdom, (with the exception of large and small cats), most are vegetarian. Think about that!

[veganfit]

Here's another thought to Rosie: Why people make it okay to own little fish in their aquariums and have pot belly pigs as pets? People also have numerous varieties of "birds" as pets. I'd like to know "who" decided that it was okay to let a Parrot live and make it "okay" to kill a chicken or a duck or turkey and then eat it? What makes it okay to own a pot belly pig (BTW pigs have the cognitive ability of toddlers; they are very smart), yet serve them on the table? How hyprocritical is it to buy your little ones rubber duckies, chickie stories, etc., and then serve the same food to them on the table? Logically it does NOT add up. We have no right to pick and choose which animals live and which ones die. They all have feelings and deserve the right to live without being doomed to die and destined to misery. Food for thought!

[Mahk]

I wonder what made humans settle on eating chicken eggs? Why not turkey eggs, which we also mass produce for food? Or any other bird or *gulp* lizard for that matter. I'm sure one can find instances of humans eating just about any kind of egg in the past but what made the main population go with chicken as the main bird of choice for egg production?

Or cows (again predominantly) for milk? Buffalo milk wouldn't do?

[august]

Animals are not machines

[gogs67]

I wonder what made humans settle on eating chicken eggs? Why not turkey eggs, which we also mass produce for food? Or any other bird or *gulp* lizard for that matter. I'm sure one can find instances of humans eating just about any kind of egg in the past but what made the main population go with chicken as the main bird of choice for egg production?

Or cows (again predominantly) for milk? Buffalo milk wouldn't do?

Because that is what was offered to them by the farmers. After the role of Vitamin D was discovered in the '20s it led to all year round chicken farming indoors (the advent of factory farming) which enabled the smallholders to commercially produce eggs for the wider population for the first time. It went on from there!

Anyway, my reasons have already been covered by you. Chickens period? Nah!

[sugarmouse]

Anyway, my reasons have already been covered by you. Chickens period? Nah!

Mine too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAiTOuSyJsQ

[Mahk]

Gross.

That would be a funny way to convert people though. I've often thought that if I ever learn how to write a web page I'd make one with a FAQ page with innocent "happy meat" kind of questions but when you click for the answer you get a video like that.

"Where do eggs come from?" would be the innocent question of course.

[sugarless]

I can't believe a chicken has to do that everyday.. heh. Poor mama. I feel nervous about having to do it once in August! (deliver my baby). Yikes!

[Korn]

Hi,

this isn't really a discussion thread, it's 'the short, one-paragraph version of vegans' arguments against using eggs, so I just moved some new posts over to another thread. If you want to have a look at other discussions about vegans/eggs - try this eg. thread.

[Sarabi]

5) All chicken rearing (even organic, free-range hens) involve the killing of 'useless' male chicks, and the shortened lives of the laying birds when egg production dwindles - often they are killed after only a couple of years, where their lifespan would otherwise be around 9 years.

Although I'm sure I'll find it eventually in my free roaming on this website or somewhere else, could you provide a source for this claim? I mean, I have read elsewhere about what happens to the male chicks, but I would like a source specifically regarding the fact about "even organic, free-range hens..." getting slaughtered. (It's something I suspected, and I want to have a source to explain on another board where I got into a discussion with primarily meat-eaters discussing the horrors of caged chickens... it quickly evolved into an emphasis on 'ethical meat-eating', and I want to twist it away from that!)

[Ruby Rose]

So sorry - I didn't realise this question had been raised until Korn bumped this thread. Information on laying span here:

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/laying.html

(last sentence) http://www.awionline.org/farm/alt-hens.htm

(section 3)
http://www.apd.reading.ac.uk/AgEcon/...y/skeletal.htm

http://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/fac...ng-Chooks/2167

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/dise...irds/index.htm

http://www.peacefulprairie.org/freerange1.html

[soilman]

"often they are killed after only a couple of years, where their lifespan would otherwise be around 9 years."

Commercially raised chickens are slaughtered at about 6 weeks old.

[Korn]

Some additional comments:

We don't allow links to sites which sell/promote use of animal products, and certainly not to a site which promotes the idea that there are 'vegan friendly eggs' or other animal products. Links to such sites will be removed. More about our board rules here.

It's worth taking a special look at this:

3) Don't share links to anti-vegan articles/sites unless you also contribute to kill the myths they are creating. Comment: A number of non-vegan trolls, who are too lazy to discuss vegan/non-vegan topics, post links to sites which promote/sell/defend use of animal products, with a short "What do you think....?" added. These links (and sometimes articles from other sites) realistically serve as free ads for animal products, unless our members (again) comment eg. why eggs never are 'vegan friendly', why veggies don't eat fish, why we don't think that hunting is OK etc.

12) Don't use our forum to try to change veganism to something else than it is. Comment: attempts of changing veganism into something which distinguishes between eg. 'vegan friendly eggs/meat/fish' and other animal products is seen as a typical example of trying to 'change veganism into something else than it is' (a la "vegetarian who eats chicken').

• What is vegan food?
The word 'vegan', when used about food, always describes food without animal products, without meat from roadkill, without free-range/organic eggs etc. There's no vegan food with 'vegan friendly' eggs in it - period. Animals exist for their own reasons, not to provide us with meat/eggs/milk etc. For a lot of reasons (eg. the many non-vegans which who for eg. health reasons don't use dairy products/meat/eggs), it's important that 'vegan' always means animal free. Vegans won't risk being served a vegan meal somewhere and later find that it contains animal product x because the owner thinks that this products was produced in an ethical way. It's important that vegans and people with allergies/who avoid animal prodcuts for health reasons know that if something is called 'vegan', it's always animal free.

• Ethical. Veganism is not a diet. It's about trying to cause as little harm as possible, and avoid interfering with/killing/harming other living beings as much as practical and possible. Vegans never think that hunting is OK because it doesn't involve factory harms, or that milk, eggs or whatever from rescued animals are OK. We do not eat roadkill, organic meat or free-range eggs - ever. And yes, we 'kill' apples!!

• Does vegan always equal ethical? Veganism isn't a belief system covering all aspects of life. Some people want comments from vegans about unusual scenarios, a la 'What if wild animals could be killed with a perfect shot after having been given a pain killer?', or 'What if birds were flying over you, while you were sleeping with an open mouth, and dropped a piece of some animal products into your mouth.... would you be a vegan if you swallowed it?" ...and so on.

The main argument against eating roadkill and random eggs from random, 'happy' birds is that it's better that other humans or wild animals are given the chance to eat these things than that vegans, who aren't interested in consuming animal products in the first place, should take what these humans/animals consider food from them. If some wild animal can eat some randomly dropped eggs from happy birds from or meat from roadkill, other animals may be saved.

There's no such things as an 'ovo-vegan' (vegan who eats eggs). If someone would try to register as a vegan who eats eggs/fish/meat etc (if any kind), he simply would get his account approved.

What about vegans who have rare, occasional slips?
If a person who normally is a vegan for some reason would eat something non-vegan by mistake, one would still define him as a vegan (although he wouldn't technically be a vegan when he eg. was eating that something with animal products in).

What about people who want to call themselves vegans but regularly eg. 'cruelty free' animal products?
They simply aren't vegans. Vegans avoid animal products, including eg. all kinds of eggs.

What about companies which for some reasons sell eggs from free-range eggs, meat from roadkill or animals which have been treated with love and respect? It would be good if those who are not vegans could use these products instead of products from factory farms etc (if going vegan is no option for them), but one cannot promote such products here.

So - no more attempt of promoting "vegan-friendly" eggs, please. The worst case I've seen is a site which someone tried to promote here not long ago. That site offered advice to people who wanted to buy eggs for vegans (!), and saw something a la "some vegans eat certain kinds of eggs while other vegans don't". That's both a false statement. Promoting such ideas in conflict with our policy... Veganism had been getting a lot of goodwill lately, and these people know a few people who don't really know what veganism is - and see a potential of making money on their 'animal free' and 'vegan friendly' turkey eggs. They won't get help from veganforum.com.

Although one may think of certain scenarios where no cruelty would be involved in producing an animal product, those rare scenarios aren't usually relevant for our daily choices. A person may still eat vegan even if he has no problems with killing mosquitoes. In real life, restaurants don't serve meals with meat from roadkill. And it's very easy to avoid eggs. We simply don't need them.

Vegans don't avoid eggs only due to how how eggs is are produced in some countries, because they are against factory farming, or due to the slaughtering of unwanted male chicks etc.

So, to anyone who consider promoting 'vegan friendly' eggs (or other animal products) now or in the future: Please check our board rules. Please don't try with double accounts, don't starting bombarding me with PMs/emails or messages in threads etc.

A couple of other (egg relevant) excerpts from our board rules:
"Please search for existing threads before you start new ones".
"We reserve the right to delete/moderate accounts - and disable features - for any reason"

There's an increased interest in veganism nowadays - but dear non-vegans, please don't try to hijack the word 'vegan' to include something you happen to like. If you want to eat eggs + vegan food instead a standard diet - great, but please accept that there are no such things as eggs of any kind in vegan food, for the reasons explained in various threads.

(Here are some other reasons to avoid eggs).

I hope all vegans, vegan sites and forums will boycott that 'vegan friendly eggs' company - not for selling eggs, because we already boycott eggs, but because they actively try to make veganism into something else than it is.