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Thread: where do you draw the line

  1. #1
    XxsarahxX's Avatar
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    Default where do you draw the line

    i was having a discussion the other day with a friend who is considering be coming vegan.
    but in this discussion she was aying that if a friend who didnt know she was vegan brought her a gift of cupcakes or food that had animal products she to be nice and not hurt there feelings she would eat them.
    and if was at someones place who had prepared a nice meal with meat and other non vegan foods would do the same.
    i would not do this to be polite even though i hadnt purchesd this food with my own money or prepared it myself i wouldnt eat it just to be nice.

    what are your veiws on this would you eat animal products just to be polite to your meat and dairy eating friends and family.
    would you wear second hand leather ?
    as your money wouldnt be going toward the leather industry and stuff like that?
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  2. #2
    XxsarahxX's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    im sorry for my bad spelling and grammar
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    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Hi Sarah and welcome to the forum. I guess a lot of us here have discussed this topic many times before....and really I guess it comes down to personal opinion.

    However, in saying that....the Vegan Society's definition of "vegan" is:

    "Veganism denotes a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment.

    In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
    Vegans certainly don't consume any animal products at all. So as a vegan that's where I draw the line when it comes to my diet. I don't cosume animal products.

    I do have some leather products and some non-vegan make up items from my pre-vegan days. I am going to use these things until they are worn out or used up, and replace them with vegan equivalents. So that's where I draw the line when it comes to other things. I will no longer spend my money on non-vegan items for clothing, furnishings etc. or personal care items.

    The arguments go a lot deeper than this, I know. But this is where I stand on the basics.

  4. #4
    XxsarahxX's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    i agree with using up products you have from the nin vegan days as it would be wasteful and evne worse for the environment to just throw it all away.
    i do own leather shoes but i hardly wear shoes and when i do its thongs or little slip on things.
    but i woulndt eat animal products ever again.

    i understand everyone has different limits to what the can and cant do.
    i just wanted to see if anyone else would eat to be nice if that makes sense
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  5. #5
    Mahk
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote XxsarahxX View Post
    im sorry for my bad spelling and grammar
    Welcome.

    Click the "ABC" with a check mark under it in the top right of where you compose messages for the forum's built-in spell checker. As for grammar, I can't help you there. I not good word combining also.

    As your friends get to know that you are a vegan they will hopefully stop bringing food gifts unless they are certain that they are vegan. I once received leather gloves as a gift and gave them away to my father.

    I think most vegans agree that throwing away all your non-vegan goods is a waste and fills the garbage land fills too quickly. I wore out/ used up my non-vegan stuff (toothpaste etc.) just like Roxy described but then only bought vegan goods from then on. We each have to draw our own lines in the sand, I guess.

  6. #6
    XxsarahxX's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    well there you go i didnt even notice the abc thing thank you.
    everyone on this forum is so helpful.

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  7. #7

    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    i would not eat any non-vegan food, whether it was bought for me as a gift or made for a meal. i try to let everyone know my moral basis on eating such foods, so i would hope they wouldnt expect me to eat them or be offended that i dont. throwing out non-vegan food is just as terrible as eating it, so try to give it to a non-vegan. the second hand leather thing tends to be a tricky topic amongst vegans and it varies. personally i think if you wear leather period, you are still supporting it. you are still out there showcasing that it is okay. just my personal opinion.

  8. #8
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Hello Sarah. I wouldn't eat non-vegan presents myself, but it would be a shame if this one point put your friend off making a move to being (mostly) vegan. If she feels able to follow a vegan lifestyle apart from that one thing I would give her every encouragement.

  9. #9
    Rentaghost Marrers's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Following on from what harpy says I think your friend may need to think of things that way at the moment in order to make going vegan seem do-able for her, and that she won't be making life difficult for others. I reckon she would find herself moving away from being able to eat those things after she was vegan for a while though. (I've read on here that quite a few of us, me included, who kept leather shoes to 'wear out' found we actually did not feel comfortable wearing them the longer we were vegan.)

    My slight concern would be the message she is giving people who hear her say she is vegan but then see her eating non-vegan things - this can impact on all of us as they will then assume all vegans are not strict and will eat non-vegan food or they will misunderstand what vegan means.

    Two weeks after I stopped eating fish my cousin made me a prawn curry (she had made an effort to cook what she thought was a 'vegetarian' dish, having met many people who claimed to be vegetarians but who ate fish - this was almost 20 years ago). I did eat it to be polite but I didn't enjoy it. I decided then that I would not eat things which upset me just to avoid upsetting others.
    I certainly would not knowingly eat anything non-vegan now.
    Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. - Floyd Dell

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    IRBFUIPTHITCS Fungus's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    For me, when I'm staying with other people at least, I'd draw the line where I know something isnt vegan I wouldnt eat it ..
    e.g - I'd eat pasta that had been cooked with storebought tomato sauce that might have lactic acid that might have come from milk.
    - I wouldn't eat egg pasta.

    Or ..
    I'll eat chips (fries in US) from a chippie that might have fried them alongside fish etc ..
    But I wont eat chips that have been cooked in lard.

    Basically when I'm with other people I wont look at the ingredients when theres a high likelihood of it being vegan ;-)
    JHMO_YMMV ..
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe-Albert Einstein

  11. #11
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I thought like this when I first went vegan, that I would eat non-vegan food if given to me by a non-vegan. However, once I was vegan for about a month or so, I decided that I wouldn't knowingly eat non-vegan food. However, if someone has made an effort to make a vegan meal and there is a slight chance it may not be vegan e.g. the example Fungus gave of pasta sauce where the animal product is quite low down the list. I would also try to use the situation to explain veganism. However, I don't often get cooked food by other people (sob!), so the problem hasn't arisen.

    With your friend, it might be something which helps her transition as Marrers says. It certainly was for me.

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I think it is a great question. I was a vegetarian most of my life but always ate whatever gramma cooked. My gram knew we were all veg but she thought using turkey sausage instead of pork sausage was the same as being veg. "Oh, but its chicken" she would say. We tried, my whole family tried, but she just didn't get it. When I got older, I think around high school, I started calling myself a "propertarian" which, as far as I was concerned, meant that I ate what I felt was right. And, for me, sometimes what was right was what gramma cooked. I also gave her allowances because she was a depression era baby so every scrap of anything edible was like solid gold to her.

    I'm brand new to this board so I hope I don't step on any toes. I just don't know about labels. If someone adheres to the vegan policy, they are vegan. If someone wants to be vegan but leaves room for allowances, well I think that is their prerogative. Frankly, I still don't call myself vegetarian or vegan, just a gal who doesn't eat or wear meats. Ew, or all that other stuff.

    I feed my dogs whatever works for them and that includes their health, their tastes (very picky dogs!) and their skin as we live in a dry region high up at about 8300 feet. They get salmon with veggies and fruit and they are happy and the vet is happy with their health.

    For me, I don't want to eat anything that I consider against my principles. but, in those rare cases, if gramma was still alive, I'd eat whatever the heck she made for me.

    One thing I did when I got rid of the cheese was to not consider vegan cheese as a replacement for dairy cheese. If I look at it as "supposed to taste like cheese" then I don't like it. when I think of it as "its own thing" then somehow I like it so much more! That may or may not help your friend. Oh, and not worrying about labeling herself vegan might help too. Maybe just going towards veganism is enough for her?

  13. #13
    littlewinker
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I only eat vegan food.

    If omeone gave me fur or leather I would not wear it. It IS contributing because they brought it for YOU. And even if they didn't, the more people see fur/leather out and about the more is normalizes it for them and makes it acceptable

  14. #14
    heat13
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote Roxy View Post
    Hi Sarah and welcome to the forum. I guess a lot of us here have discussed this topic many times before....and really I guess it comes down to personal opinion.

    However, in saying that....the Vegan Society's definition of "vegan" is:



    Vegans certainly don't consume any animal products at all. So as a vegan that's where I draw the line when it comes to my diet. I don't cosume animal products.

    I do have some leather products and some non-vegan make up items from my pre-vegan days. I am going to use these things until they are worn out or used up, and replace them with vegan equivalents. So that's where I draw the line when it comes to other things. I will no longer spend my money on non-vegan items for clothing, furnishings etc. or personal care items.

    The arguments go a lot deeper than this, I know. But this is where I stand on the basics.

    Roxy, my feelings exactly! I was worried about what to do with my cosmetics and such that are not vegan (Obviously I had them before I became vegan). I hate hate hate wasting things, so I was def wondering what to do! Now I feel more comfortable using my nonvegan things up. Thanks!

  15. #15
    Mew Mew Mew! Kitteh's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I agree w/ Roxy's post. If ppl, like my Grandma or others who know I am vegan, offer me something that's non-vegan I just decline, I won't always point out again that I'm vegan, I'll just say "no thanks, I don't want it". If it's someone I know won't be offended I will remind them that it's not vegan, I won't compromise just to not hurt someone's feelings, they'll get over it, it's not the end of the world.

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    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    My leather wallet finally wore out last year, after I'd had it for 7 years. I replaced it with a nice cloth wallet, which is cruelty free and actually looks a lot nicer.

    Next to go will be my leather watch band that I've had for 8 years or so. It's falling apart.

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    XxsarahxX's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    wow your wallet does sound nice.
    matts wallet is falling apart to so he will be getting a cruelty free one soon hopefully..


    i dont plan on wearing the leather shoes i have the only reason i still have them hidden in my closet is because im not sure wether any one in my family would want them and if they dont ill give them to the salvos
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  18. #18
    Mew Mew Mew! Kitteh's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I gave shoes to my best mate and a belt as well. I gave my Mum some perfumes I had for ages. I have a gorgeous scarf/wrap I was given by someone, it's probably a wool blend, it's so soft and a beautiful colour. I can't bring myself to throw it away or give it away because of the sentimental value, but I won't wear it, lol.

    I'm still wearing a pair of Asics sneakers I've had since before I was vegan. I need shoes that I can fit my orthotics in, so I'm not sure where I will buy new sneakers when I need to.

  19. #19
    XxsarahxX's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    oh the scarf does sound nice sentimental stuff i dont think i could get rid of but i would wear it either.

    yeah shoes would be hard to find if you need a special kind. i find my problem with shoes is i can hardly find my size any more most places have stoppted supplying size 5 it sucks its like they think people dont have small feet anymore and they were usaully cheap and no leather
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  20. #20
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I have a wool sweater too. I didn't wear it this past winter and I'm thinking that it will be donated to a charity store before too long.

  21. #21
    heat13
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I think my sis and I are going to do a big donation of all our old things. But some of the main items I may need to keep until they wear (like my running shoes). What kinds of vegan shoes are there to work out in? Mine are Mizuno and I had no idea until recently there were even animal products in them.

  22. #22
    XxsarahxX's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I'm not to sure what shoes there are you might have to go online and look around.
    i no Macbeth have a shoe suitable for vegans but i cant remember which ones but they are a skate shoe so it wouldn't be any help for you i don't think.
    good luck finding some
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  23. #23
    Mew Mew Mew! Kitteh's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I read that some Asics in the U.K were vegan, not sure if it's still true.

    I was thinking of ordering some online from the U.K/U.S.A.

    http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/
    http://www.vegetarianshoesandbags.com/
    http://www.mooshoes.com/
    http://www.veganshoes.com/
    http://www.peta.org/living/alt1.asp

  24. #24

    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find me...

  25. #25
    Mew Mew Mew! Kitteh's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I knew there was some I'd missed ta

  26. #26
    Sealpup
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I'm a fairly new vegan and am struggling with the issue of shoes. What kind of shoes do most vegans wear? I work in an office environment. Where do you get shoes that are vegan and provide support and comfort?

    ~Sealpup

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    Haniska's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote XxsarahxX View Post
    oh the scarf does sound nice sentimental stuff i dont think i could get rid of but i would wear it either.

    yeah shoes would be hard to find if you need a special kind. i find my problem with shoes is i can hardly find my size any more most places have stoppted supplying size 5 it sucks its like they think people dont have small feet anymore and they were usaully cheap and no leather

    The lady I work for wears size 5 1/2 EE! That is hard to find! Every 3 months on ebay I get a notice that there is something, usually made of ostrich. You should have more luck though since you don't need double wides. check out ebay

    As far as drawing the line, I eat white sugar *in things* though I buy raw sugar to keep in the house and use in recipes. Not eating canned spaghetti sauce or sushi seems to extreme to me to cut off sugar. I have gelatine capsules..haven't had the guts to talk to my pharmacist. My dog eats packaged vegan dog-food but I keep my mouth shut when she is offered non-vegan foods. I drive and I have had occasion to kill ticks and fleas. The way I see it, everything else is really unnecessary. I don't need to eat meat or cheese etc, but I do think it is important for me and my fiance to eat out together, which we enjoy, and for me not to look like a freak asking is there sugar in the spaghetti sauce. I don't Always ask about the bread etc at certain places. I figure(my only agreement with Peta) that it is better that people see me enjoying good food as a vegan than for me to eat iceberg lettuce for dinner, thereby avoiding 1/8 teaspoon of whey or something. I don't like it, its one of many concessions I make, right up there with eating with people who eat meat or purchasing food for the people that I work for.
    Last edited by Haniska; Apr 15th, 2008 at 05:33 AM. Reason: more
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

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    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote heat13 View Post
    I think my sis and I are going to do a big donation of all our old things. But some of the main items I may need to keep until they wear (like my running shoes). What kinds of vegan shoes are there to work out in? Mine are Mizuno and I had no idea until recently there were even animal products in them.

    I used to have a pair of Fila canvass shoes for work. They were pretty good and lasted well. I wear skate shoes now though.

  29. #29

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    My worst one is beer. I'll usually go for the one that i think is most likely to contain the least amount of animal, i won't even say which brand i'm drinking right now - if i stumble across the info that it ain't vegan then that's different.

    Like Haniska said about the bread or pasta sauce: i'm not going out of my way to look like an awkward freak in social situations. We have to remember that these are still early days.

  30. #30
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I have old leather things, though I dont wear/use them.
    I would probably accept a leather gift in fact I did this xmas, a jewellry box from my father.My father and I are only just getting on after years of rift, and I wouldnt cause an argument over that.As it was, I passed on the gift to a non-vegan friend of mine.That way , it is gettin used, and I dont have to buy a gift therefore I am saving my money and not being wasteful.I dont liek to be wasteful.
    I would never eat none vegan food..or buy anything I know to be none-animal friendly.
    The longer you are vegan, the easier it gets.And i think the best you can do is live your life as cruelty free as possible, but accept you are ina non-vegan world and mistakes/blips/situations will happen.

  31. #31
    Fervent vegan DiaShel's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I'm glad I read this forum. Makes me feel better about not replacing my shoes, cosmetics, soaps, etc. I just can't afford to buy all new things and I don't see how throwing it out will help anything.
    As for food I'm not making any exceptions. I've read it's best to go cold tofu (haha) and lose the taste for that stuff completely. If you just limit to special occasions or when someone gives you something then it's like a treat and you'll look forward to having it.
    "To reduce suffering means to reduce the amount of ignorance, the basic affliction with us." -Thich Nhat Hanh

  32. #32
    Mew Mew Mew! Kitteh's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote Sealpup View Post
    I'm a fairly new vegan and am struggling with the issue of shoes. What kind of shoes do most vegans wear? I work in an office environment. Where do you get shoes that are vegan and provide support and comfort?

    ~Sealpup
    It's a bit hard isn't it? Atleast you have quite a few outfitters in the USA (see links above). We have one in another state here and they can be quite expensive. But ordering from the US/UK will be exxy too.

    I also have orthotics that I am meant to wear. At the moment the only time I have them in is when I wear my sneakers for the gym/cycling. During summer I wore flats/thongs and now that it's autumn I'm wearing a synthetic pair of black ballet flats... the glue used could have been non-vegan but I had to buy something asap last year when it was super cold and I haven't had the money to order from overseas and also I have to hope they'll fit when they arrive.

  33. #33
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote DiaShel View Post
    I'm glad I read this forum. Makes me feel better about not replacing my shoes, cosmetics, soaps, etc. I just can't afford to buy all new things and I don't see how throwing it out will help anything.
    As for food I'm not making any exceptions. I've read it's best to go cold tofu (haha) and lose the taste for that stuff completely. If you just limit to special occasions or when someone gives you something then it's like a treat and you'll look forward to having it.

    You go girl!

  34. #34
    Fervent vegan DiaShel's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Thanks Roxy!
    "To reduce suffering means to reduce the amount of ignorance, the basic affliction with us." -Thich Nhat Hanh

  35. #35

    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Hi,

    I have had people give me chocolates and leather but I gave them away. I would not compromise my beliefs for anyone, as it's me doing this not them. If they are thoughtless and inconsideration, knowing you are vegan its their problem not yours.

  36. #36
    pat sommer's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    My sister is picking up a summer wardrobe for me in cool local second-hand (thrift) shops for my visit. I know that something will have a leather label or 20% silk or shell buttons, despite her checking.

    I will wear what fits and anything non-vegan will be recycled back to the charity shops. It's all about what we can and can't live with; no one is keeping score.
    the only animal ingredient in my food is cat hair

  37. #37
    Klytemnest
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote DiaShel View Post
    I'm glad I read this forum. Makes me feel better about not replacing my shoes, cosmetics, soaps, etc. I just can't afford to buy all new things and I don't see how throwing it out will help anything.
    As for food I'm not making any exceptions. I've read it's best to go cold tofu (haha) and lose the taste for that stuff completely. If you just limit to special occasions or when someone gives you something then it's like a treat and you'll look forward to having it.
    I ahve not thrown out any of the stuff I bought before I became a vegan. I still wear my Aldo shoes. My vegan shoes are not as comfortable, so when I know I will have a lot of standing to do, I wear my Aldos. I still wear my pre-vegan belts. On rare occasions I will even put on my leather jacket. I really don't think my using these items does any harm. The harm was done when I paid for them all. I no longer buy non-vegan products. I recently bought some vegan shaving cream. It's fantastic! I can't wait to shave tomorrow. I like the soaps too. Yes, it can get pricey, but I think it is more important to spare the suffering of innocent animals than to save a few dollars.

    I work at a Seventh-Day Adventist University. SDAs are already more receptive to the idea of vegetarianism, so I have been quite open about my veganism. I hope it will do some good.

  38. #38

    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Hey I've been vegan a year and a half and I still don't own vegan shoes or belts. Yeah, my shoes are still the old ones from like 3 years ago. I'm pretty much gonna wear them until it's impossible to wear them any longer, then I'll go vegan-shoe shopping.

  39. #39
    Jessicaisvegan
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    if they're really your friends they wont be upset about your actions.
    and respect what you say.

    i would never eat non vegan ingredients under any circumstances.
    in my opinion your not a true vegan if you do.

  40. #40
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote Klytemnest View Post
    I ahve not thrown out any of the stuff I bought before I became a vegan. I still wear my Aldo shoes. My vegan shoes are not as comfortable, so when I know I will have a lot of standing to do, I wear my Aldos. I still wear my pre-vegan belts. On rare occasions I will even put on my leather jacket. I really don't think my using these items does any harm. The harm was done when I paid for them all.

    I totally agree what harm does it do, with wearing old non vegan things however I still do not wear my old leahter clothes.
    Not cause I think it is doing any harm.but because I dont want folk to look at me and
    A)think im hypocritical or
    B) think vegans are leather wearers!

  41. #41

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I wouldn't ever eat/wear something that was non-vegan. Anyone who'd get me a gift knows I'm vegan, and if I ever go to anyone's house for food I make sure they know beforehand what I can/can't eat and offer to bring my own food to share or give tips if they want to cook a meal etc. I don't think it's rude not to eat animal products when it's such a big part of my beliefs and life.

    I personally wouldn't wear second hand leather because I hate the idea of wearing someone's dead skin, but I don't really have an ethical problem with someone wearing second hand leather from a charity shop, it's obviously not affecting the leather industry and who knows, may stop the person buying first hand leather. It's kinda like, when I'm older I would like to look into getting a few ex-battery chickens (if that's even possible) and giving them a place to live out the rest of their lives in my garden or something. If they happened to lay eggs I wouldn't eat them myself (yuck..) but I wouldn't have such an ethical problem with someone else eating them as long as I didn't charge for them and that wasn't the reason I was keeping the chickens.. I don't know anything about chickens and whether or not they like to keep the eggs themselves so that's purely hypothetical but, ya know.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote xErasedCitizenx View Post
    It's kinda like, when I'm older I would like to look into getting a few ex-battery chickens (if that's even possible) and giving them a place to live out the rest of their lives in my garden or something. If they happened to lay eggs I wouldn't eat them myself (yuck..) but I wouldn't have such an ethical problem with someone else eating them as long as I didn't charge for them and that wasn't the reason I was keeping the chickens..
    I plan on doing this too, when I have a decent garden space and enough money! This organisation looks really good: http://www.bhwt.org.uk/adopt_some_hens.php

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

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    organic fanic august's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I can not eat anything I know has animal parts in it, the thought makes me cringe. When I went vegan and found that animal parts are in most everything like soap, lotions, shampoo's, etc., I really had a shock. I couldn't believe I had been rubbing animals into my skin, I had a few nightmares about it- seriously. The realization that I had been eating, wearing, bathing and generally rolling around in dead animals really freaked me out.
    I gave everything I had with animal parts away to other people and thrift stores and I do mean everything. It took me a good while to sort through everything I own basically. Everything but my old black leather Ramone's jacket- I buried it. I had a little ceremony and everything- with other vegans there. I'm sure I should have given it away but I just couldn't. I was so mad at myself for wearing this huge piece of a cow that I wanted to give her a personal, proper as possible burial.
    Most people who are close enough to give me presents know I'm a vegan and what that means. If I do get something that's not vegan I give it away and find an opportune time to politely define or redefine veganism to the person who gave the gift- fortunately, I've only had this happen once.
    "The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking." -byron

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    This is a toughy! I think becoming 'vegan' can be a scary prospect. I tried several times while I was a teenager, but I didn't realy care enough about myself to eat well. When I considered it two years ago the thing that scared me the most and still does is being judged by other vegans! So the most important thing to me now is to promote animal welfare and encourage people to do what they feel they can at the time. I don't label myself vegan, just incase there are things I don't know about, I'm learning every day! However I couldn't eat an animal product out of politness, although I'm sure there have been things like lactic acid or some random colouring or E number that I may not have know about eating out or at a friends house, I also couldn't accept a gift of new leather, fur or wool, but I don't think anyone I know would.

    As for the second hand debate, I don't realy do 'new' I care about the enviroment as much as animals and I think the rate of production and waste in the clothing and home industries is terrifying. I have wool products that I had before heading for veganism and some leather boots, but all these things were bought out of necceasity, if I need shoes (and believe me I were my shoes until my feet pop out!) and they were the only ones I could buy from a second hand store I would say I'd have to, but if there was an alternative I would always choose the alternative.

    There's so much to consider, what with paint and photo's the list is endless and not just about clothes and food, I think we have to do the best we can, but still enjoy life if your calling your self vegan and your miserable your not a good advertisment, but then so are you if your not following the basics........I appear to have gone on a tangent, I should get back to work!

    rx
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    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote august View Post
    rolling around in dead animals really freaked me out.
    I gave everything I had with animal parts away to other people and thrift stores and I do mean everything. It took me a good while to sort through everything I own basically. Everything but my old black leather Ramone's jacket- I buried it. I had a little ceremony and everything- with other vegans there. I'm sure I should have given it away but I just couldn't. I was so mad at myself for wearing this huge piece of a cow that I wanted to give her a personal, proper as possible burial.
    .
    That is a great story, August.Rxkitten have I found another Ryden fan?
    My father has been twisting on about keeping hens for a while.I am going to send him that link,thankyou xx

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    Fictional mogthecat's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote sugarmouse View Post
    My father has been twisting on about keeping hens for a while.I am going to send him that link,thankyou xx
    Glad to help. I am so impatient to adopt some hens but think it will have to wait a while . My family have always kept hens and I've always wanted some, and now I'm vegan adopting battery hens seems the perfect thing to do. Very glad to think posting that link may end up saving some hens.

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote sugarmouse View Post
    That is a great story, August.Rxkitten have I found another Ryden fan?
    My father has been twisting on about keeping hens for a while.I am going to send him that link,thankyou xx
    Sugarmouse you have, I love Ryden, the man is a genius!! (I'd like to adopt hens too but my garden is too small and I'm a bit traumatised after being chased by several on a yard I worked on, I had horse feed and they wanted it bad!! )
    Dancing in circles on the kitchen floor

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Count me in as a Ryden fan too. I saw his "Blood" series in a NYC exhibition a few years ago. It was thrilling.

    That is a great story August!

  50. #50
    susangail
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I personally try my best not to eat non-vegan food that I didn't buy, even if it was a gift. I weigh it based on which is worse, hurting your friend's feelings, or eating something that caused animal suffering and death. If I'm at a friend's house or eating out, I don't ask whether the bread has honey or whey, or whether the pasta has egg whites. I don't use products that were animal tested but I don't (and can't as far as my budget) avoid all animal ingredients. I do what I can and don't worry about what I can't.

    And on the issue of old non-vegan products from the non-vegan days, I only have a few (one of which I realized I had while reading this thread), which I don't use and am planning to give away. I only recently became a vegan (I had been working my way up from vegetarianism) so I'm still de-crueltifying my stuff. I can't bring myself to wear my wool socks or use my leather purse, etc. I wouldn't want people who know me as a vegan to see me with them and every time I look at them, I would be reminded of the suffering those poor animals went through.

    My only problem is my journal. Its cover is leather. It was a gift from my sister that I got many months ago before I was a vegan. I'm torn though. I've already written a lot in it. If I remove the cover, it would ruin the journal and I wouldn't be able to give it away anyway. The damage of supporting the industry is done. I write only when I'm alone so no one would see me with it. But on the other side, it's a dead animal. I just feel horrible when I see it. I haven't decided but for now, I'm still writing in it (I write a lot, it's almost an obsession).

    Well I'm done rambling for now.
    Susan

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