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Thread: where do you draw the line

  1. #251

    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote Tiffany View Post
    People always complain that I'm a fanatic
    No, you're what we call a vegan. x
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  2. #252

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote horselesspaul View Post
    I live in the vegan bubble called Brighton in the UK where we have a shop called Vegetarian Shoes so it's always been easy (if not cheap) for me but I also find that cheap footwear generally tends to be animal free and the labelling can show this. All my five kinds of football boots (futsal, indoor 5 a side, outdoor astro, outdoor soft ground, outdoor hard ground) are vegan, obviously, which is nice and were not expensive. Animal based glues are very much a thing of the past in the footwear industry I gather now too.
    Lucky you! I love Vegetarian Shoes, Ive got four pairs . Some vegan shops over here sell them, too, but its actually cheaper to buy them online and have them shipped here. Can you tell me more about glues in the footwear industry? Id love to be sure that they dont use animal based glues but so far non one has ever been able to tell me at the shops .

  3. #253

    Lightbulb Re: where do you draw the line

    Well when I went vegan I informed my fiance's mother by email and said I would bring my own food and prepare it as long as she told me in advance when everyone else would be eating so I could time it etc, but she had some biscuits with milk chocolate chips in the other day and I said I couldn't eat them and she said 'OH HAVE a biscuit Katrina' and I said when I go into something I go into it for the long haul and not half cocked. I would not be getting anywhere if I ate something with skimmed milk powder here or a little bit of milk chocolate there. Just like when I went on holiday with my mother and her boyfriend earlier this month I bought lemon curd by accident and made my toast, I finished spreading lemon curd onto it then my other half said 'eggs'. So I then moved the plate towards him. My mother said 'Just eat it', and I mouthed at her for not being supportive.
    I am going to a wedding in three weeks and I am rather dubious about it, I have informed them as the main course was stuffed peppers (feta cheese), they said they have informed the venue to adjust my main and dessert accordingly and I still frequently think about what I will do if I end up with a cheese stuffed pepper on my plate. Any ideas? I will feel like an absolute cow if I complain at someone's wedding.

  4. #254

    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote Lukka View Post
    Lucky you! I love Vegetarian Shoes, Ive got four pairs . Some vegan shops over here sell them, too, but its actually cheaper to buy them online and have them shipped here. Can you tell me more about glues in the footwear industry? Id love to be sure that they dont use animal based glues but so far non one has ever been able to tell me at the shops .
    The glues most often used are all chemically constituted according to a friend who is an industrial chemist. I have been researching for myself online and this does appear to be the case. Interestingly, animal derived glues are most often used to bond animal derived products it seems.
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  5. #255
    Enchantress's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote Kahdeksantoista View Post
    I am going to a wedding in three weeks and I am rather dubious about it, I have informed them as the main course was stuffed peppers (feta cheese), they said they have informed the venue to adjust my main and dessert accordingly and I still frequently think about what I will do if I end up with a cheese stuffed pepper on my plate. Any ideas? I will feel like an absolute cow if I complain at someone's wedding.
    Bring some snacks in your handbag in case your food turns out not to be vegan. That way you can quietly leave the food you're served without having to go hungry. I'm not usually one for quietly accepting substandard accomodation of veganism, but I certainly wouldn't want to turn someone's wedding into an argument about my inappropraite meal.

  6. #256
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Yes I agree with Enchantress, you can't very well kick up a fuss about the catering at someone else's wedding. If there's an opportunity, though, one thing you could do is discreetly make yourself known to the catering staff and remind them of what they've agreed to do as soon as you get to the place, then the question might not arise with any luck!

  7. #257

    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Kicking up a fuss did not even occur to me, I just realised how I phrased that but no one likes going hungry nor eating against their morals to please. Not a nice feeling at all. It did occur to me to take my own food but I think I am going to be there from 1pm until 11pm. I have only ever been to one wedding before and I was 7 at the time, I am not really a party all night sort of person, three hours and I'll be knackered!

  8. #258
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Does sound a bit of a marathon! I would still try and take something portable for emergencies though such as cereal bars or dried fruit and nuts. You'll probably need something to keep you going.

    Then if they do bring you something non-vegan you can just leave it or shove it round your plate a bit. Probably no one will even notice in the excitement...

  9. #259

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I tend to bring my own food anywhere I go, and by now people who know me know I'm vegan, which avoids most of those situations.

    As for me

    I'd never cook something non vegan, and I make just about all my food at home.

    IF I eat out at a restaurant, or I'm traveling in backwoods southern US, for example (no offense) Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas) and have essentially no choice, I'll let certain things slide, like marinara sauce that may have been made with butter, or stuff like that, IF I have no other option.

    (Some restaurants won't have a single vegan choice and they've even pre-prepared things with butter, like veggies that are pre grilled, etc)

  10. #260
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote horselesspaul View Post
    No, you're what we call a vegan. x
    I can totally sympathise with Tiffany, I get called "purist" and "extreme" and I agree with HorselessPaul, I say back, "I'm vegan", that means I do my utmost to not consume, wear or use any animal product. I think if a friend made me something with an animal product in, and I ate it, it would only send out the message that it's ok to make me stuff with animal products in, which it wouldn't be, especially if I'd already told my friend I was vegan... I do get that it can be difficult and you can feel guilty but you just have to remember why you became vegan in the first place right?
    "Who was the guy who first looked at a cow and said, 'I think I'll drink whatever comes out of these things when I squeeze 'em!'? - Calvin and Hobbes

  11. #261

    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I wouldn't eat the food, but would politely explain that I'm vegan. I wouldn't wear second-hand leather, because it promotes wearing leather to other people. I draw the line at necessary medications. There just isn't a way around animal testing, and there's not much of a way around gelatin in the caps.
    Eat your veggies!

  12. #262

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    A woman I walk dogs for gives me home made cookies pretty often. She has no idea I am vegan. The rest of my family really enjoys them, and I'm glad because otherwise I'd feel horrible about it. I've had food bought for me on some occasions and had to turn it down, but I make sure to let the person know how grateful I am even though I can't accept it.

  13. #263
    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Well if they are homemade cookies, explain to her that you are vegan and she can make you some vegan cookies instead!
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  14. #264

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote emzy1985 View Post
    Well if they are homemade cookies, explain to her that you are vegan and she can make you some vegan cookies instead!
    Very true.

  15. #265
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Argh. Someone at work has just given me a Terry's chocolate orange (it is his last day and he brought chocs for everyone). It's fine as I will give it to my mother, but it has just reminded me how much I love chocolate orange. Booooooo!
    "Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers."

  16. #266
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Not quite the same, but Fry's chocolate orange creme bar is a kind of substitute?
    "Only after the last tree has been cut down,the last fish caught [and] the last river poisoned;only then will you realise that money cannot be eaten"

  17. #267
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Best substitute I've found is some dark orange chocs from Hotel Chocolate which are lovely. It's just a shame the price isn't. (It is better in a way though, since I make them last a lot longer when they cost more, instead of basically inhaling the whole thing.)
    "Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers."

  18. #268

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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    I'm sorry but I couldn't eat anything other than non vegan

  19. #269
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Hi I'm new!

    I was thinking about about leather today , and thankfully I see it being discussed here.

    Hope I'm not stepping on someones toes by saying that I don't understand vegan shoes that mimic leather. I understand the concept of not wearing leather, because by wearing leather you are just showing that you think it's okay to wear leather even if it is second hand. But no one can tell the difference between fake leather and real unless you tell them. So isn't wearing fake leather almost as bad?

    *putting on flame proof vest*

    What I would love to see is vegan shoes for all purposes that are biodegradable just like leather, but does not look like it. Like recycled rubber and hemp or even cork would be awesome. Convertibles are the only shoes I have found that are made like this.

    About where I draw the line - If I don't see why it would be morally wrong to consume some things then I continue to consume it. Like I have some synthetic vanilla sugar still left from my vegetarian days, it is made from milk I think (not sure). I will not throw it away just because of that, but I will buy a completely vegan version of vanilla sugar after I have used it up.
    Honey is something I'm really not sure of, I haven't heard a good enough explanation of why it is wrong. If I would be living in the States however I would not touch honey, because even the bees are exploited horribly over there compared to how they are treated in my country and some other European countries. But I do try to avoid honey anyway. I try not to see things in a too black and white manner.
    There are gray areas in everything, even in veganism. Like I really do not think it is wrong for some people to consume animal products, by some people I mean some poor and indigenous people who cannot survive without consuming animal products. Many people depend on them. Just some food for thought...
    That doesn't mean that I think it is ok for greedy westerners to consume animal products, we need to quit doing that because it takes too much resources and because we can survive better without doing so.
    Hope I'm not repeating too much of what some other people on the boards might have said

  20. #270
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote Lara_Hastings View Post
    Hope I'm not stepping on someones toes by saying that I don't understand vegan shoes that mimic leather. I understand the concept of not wearing leather, because by wearing leather you are just showing that you think it's okay to wear leather even if it is second hand. But no one can tell the difference between fake leather and real unless you tell them. So isn't wearing fake leather almost as bad?
    Hi Lara and welcome to Vegan Forum

    If you think about "What advantages do leather shoes have?" and then you try and mimic those advantages in "vegan shoes", I just cannot see anything wrong in that. As long as no animals have been harmed, I'm ok with "vegan shoes".

    As for a vegan continuing to wear leather shoes until they wear out, we have discussed this many times on VF and as there are differing opinions, who is to say who is right and who is wrong? You continue consuming synthetic vanilla sugar (until it runs out) although you're unsure whether or not it's made from milk!

    Nakemiin

    leedsveg

  21. #271
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Yes, I too don't see a problem with making shoes that might look like leather but aren't..................as long as no animal has had to suffer then what's the problem?
    With regard to honey................taking something from another living being is wrong.............the honey bees work to make that honey for their own purposes not for humans to take.
    With regard to the indigenous people, I think humans have progressed far enough for ALL people to survive on a plant based diet.

    By the way, hello and welcome to the forum Lara!
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  22. #272
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    ^ There is still a huge amount of people around the world that still live in extremely primitive conditions, that's a fact.

    The reason why I think fake leather is a bit.. I would not call it wrong, but strange, is because it sort of misses the point of not wearing leather in the first place. Because one is still promoting the usage of leather that way, no one will notice that your fake leather shoes aren't fake. So everyone will think you are wearing leather, one is promoting leather wearing with fake leather. Why not use obvious plant sourced shoes instead that are biodegradable?


    Well, anyway...

    Thanks for the welcome

  23. #273
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Hi again Lara, yes it is indeed a fact that people still live in primitive conditions but as I said, humans have progressed and technology is such that no one should have to live primitively (unless they want to of course) and if everyone lived on a plant based diet there would be more than enough food to go around.

    About wearing fake leather, there is another way to look at it..............if someone comments on my fake leather bag thinking it's real I can tell them I'm vegan and my bag is not leather. That person then realises you don't need to kill an animal to make bags, coats or shoes..............this sows the seed in their mind that there are alternatives which are cruelty free.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  24. #274
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    ^ Yeah, if someone asks then it of course all the better to spread the info
    ---

    You really think all the people on this planet can thrive on a vegan diet? I think maybe after about 500 years, the more people go vegan the more food there is to go around for everyone, that is true. But it takes a lot for that to ever happen

    Lets hope that some day earth would be more like in Star Trek, like when commander Riker said: "We no longer exploit animals for our food purposes".

  25. #275
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    The way I see it, if there are desirable traits in leather eg comfort, breathability, longevity etc and we don't try/want to incorporate those traits when we design clothing for vegans, then it makes it appear that vegans just want to suffer for no logical reason.That's not a good advert for veganism!


    leedsveg

  26. #276
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    ^ Good point Leedsveg!



    Quote Lara_Hastings View Post
    You really think all the people on this planet can thrive on a vegan diet? I think maybe after about 500 years, the more people go vegan the more food there is to go around for everyone, that is true. But it takes a lot for that to ever happen
    Yes, I do think all the people on this planet can thrive on a vegan diet.......why couldn't they?
    Why do you think it would take 500 years? It is because humans eat animals and intensively farm them that the planet is in the state it's in. If all the land used for rearing animals was put into growing crops there would be more than enough to feed the whole world.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  27. #277
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    Default Re: where do you draw the line

    Quote Lara_Hastings View Post
    The reason why I think fake leather is a bit.. I would not call it wrong, but strange, is because it sort of misses the point of not wearing leather in the first place. Because one is still promoting the usage of leather that way, no one will notice that your fake leather shoes aren't fake. So everyone will think you are wearing leather, one is promoting leather wearing with fake leather. Why not use obvious plant sourced shoes instead that are biodegradable?
    Hello, welcome Lara. I would prefer to use plant-sourced and biodegradable ones too but at the moment the others have some advantages (e.g. they are warmer and more likely to be waterproof).

    Unless perhaps one's a model or something I don't think people usually look that closely at other people's shoes. Sometimes people do ask me if I wear leather shoes because they assume (without looking at my feet) that I must wear them because there's no alternative, and then I explain that there is.

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