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Thread: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

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    Maisiepaisie's Avatar
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    Default Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    This is just horrible but it doesn't surprise me that mindless chav scum are responsible for this. A young couple were savagely beaten (one of them to death) by a gang of youths, just because they dress differently. I'm glad the thugs got charged with murder so hopefully they'll be behind bars for a long time.
    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...oth/article.do

    This particularly upset me because my youngest son likes to follow the emo dress style and he got pushed into a fountain by chavs and his phone was broken. My heart goes out to the parents of the girl who died. I can't imagine what they must be going through
    The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well

  2. #2

    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Yeah I saw this on the news last night, I thought it was really shocking how people could be so cruel and heartless just because those two people looked different to how they did.

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    As a species we are capable of such horiffic deeds. I can't begin to empathise with the scum that did this.

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    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    according to the press, the attackers were drunk with and fuelled by cider.

    is it the kids or the parenting or a combo of both?

    it's a dreadful, sad, sad story. the young man who survived said he wished his girlfriend had left him to die and saved herself.

    some of those details made me feel sick.....



    my daughter follows the emo dress style too maisie.

  5. #5
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    i read about this today, it beggars belief, humans can be so sordid, i'd like to see a world free of all drugs and drink and a bit more love and morality.

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    The SCUM, that God we leave near Brighton where it is the norm to look different. They were even laughing with their parents after the deed - disgusting doesn't even cover it
    Silent but deadly :p

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    I've been really upset about this, too, and wondered about posting about it. I saw her boyfriend on the news last night and he was devastated at losing her. She was trying to help him when they kicked her so badly that she died two weeks later. I really want something horrible to happen to those bastards. They were 15 and 16 years of age and drunk. (Don't normally swear on forums, but...)

    Penny

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    That's so sad, the picture of her boyfriend at the funeral almost made me cry.

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    I don't understand why people feel they have the right to judge anyone...
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

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    =^.^= Melanie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    This upsets me so much.
    What the hell is wrong with people?


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    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    A heart wrenching case to read about!!
    As for the attackers, if people think their own lives are cheap, it stands to reason that they will not value the lives of others but if there had been no drink that night then there would have been no murder!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

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    cobweb
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    ^ I agree, Gogs, as a reformed hardened drinker I would love to see it, and all recreational drugs, disappear off the face of the Earth.

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    My eldest son is 19 (20 in May) and when we lived in Croyden he was regularly beaten up/mugged partly because of how he looked (goth/punk/emo). My heart really goes out to this girl's family and partner. It could have been any of us. Such mindlessness is so hard to comprehend. The woman involved sounds like a real asset to society. Such a sad, unnecessary waste of a life. May her partner eventualy find some sort of peace. I wish him love.
    here comes the sun

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    i saw that, this is incredibly sad. i can only hope the families and poor boyfriend will find some sort of peace, one day.

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Things like this make me dispair. Something big needs to be done to correct the imbalances and lack of common sense in society which have made this kind of thing commonplace and, in some sectors of society, normal behaviour. We have gone too far towards empathising with people who do things like this - there seem to be no lines that can't be crossed any more.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Wow. This is so distressingly sad.

    I would think that the "chav" subculture has a large role in legitimizing this violence. I would like to know of its roots, and how it functions, and how to find alternatives to that subculture that could address the endemic violence.

    "Broken Homes" and some of the other reasons given in the article are only half reasons. It seems like that whole gang (let alone just the two kids who were most responsible) is part of one of many "reasons".

    I wouldn't be surprised if this started happening more often. I think that if a real analysis of the nexus of chav violence and its factors might be able to reason 1) how to address this problem and 2) if the problem is going to grow or die away.

    This is one haunting and sad story. If I walked the streets of the UK at night, I'd make sure to cary some brass knuckles and a few combat classes at the least for protection. But that can't be the solution for all.

    I am so deeply saddened by this article.
    context is everything

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    pathologist
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    yes - it happened just about half a mile from where I live - in the pennines in Lancashire - not in a big city or anything but a little rural village. I too am very interested in the generation of the subculture that led to this sort of thing. I'm planning to write a piece on this for a journal. The thing I'm really interested in is sudden unexpected infant death - this occurs almost exclusively in the same sort of culture that the perpertrators of this awful murder (and other awful murders) live in. My real interest is how society let this develop and the ethics of it - quite a difficult and complex topic.

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    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote gogs67 View Post
    if there had been no drink that night then there would have been no murder!
    That's a ridiculous claim to make, how can you possibly know that?

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    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    My two friends were attacked last night by a bunch of chavs. We all dress differently and stick out a mile. They just pulled a knife on them. Luckily my mates got away and called the police.

    I think Chav culture is getting out of hand. These kids have nothing worthwhile in their lives and have been failed by the education system, so wonder the streets looking for trouble to make themselves feel important and worth something. I am a metal head and proud. I have gotton into fights with chavs before, luckily before most of them started to carry weapons.

    I feel so sorry for their parents, their friends and their families.
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

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    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    .

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    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Aubergine that is different to the post I recieved in my email!

    Anyway my point to it was that I think drink and drugs are a moral panic. They are not alot worse than they have been in my life time at least and if they are it is because people feel worthless, powerless and need to escape/feel better. All of that is due to being over taxed and over worked whether be you or the parents who provide for you. The state is therefore creating and stiring the situation so it can introduce more of a police and nanny state and guess what? We as blind citizens support it as "cracking down on crime!" What a load of bullshit!
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

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    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote Risker View Post
    That's a ridiculous claim to make, how can you possibly know that?
    Ridiculous, how?

    From the article
    "Binge-drinking Brendan Harris, 15, and Ryan Herbert, 16, had drunk at least four pints of strong cider and downed shots of schnapps when they stamped on the head of the gap year student in a park in a quiet Lancashire town."
    Do you think these scumbags got up in the morning and thought 'tonight i'm gonna kick a woman to death?'.............not at all, i can guarantee all they were thinking about was getting wasted and had no worry whatsoever about the consequences.

    Casual drink fuelled violence was just an accepted part of life as i was growing up in Scotland. Fighting / one-sided bullying was just something that happened........but the underlying common factor was drink. i could count on one hand acts of violence i've witnessed when alcohol wasn't involved, and , in every one of these cases there was a personal 'reason' , it was never random.

    As a teen, it never occurred to me that there was anything wrong or unusual in people arbitrarily picking fights, it was actually a real eye-opener growing up and seeing other cultures where this did not happen. It was about status- and those with status did that shit............but no one ever did it sober and that exact pattern is there for all to see in this tragic case.

    I notice they had previous for this sort of random violence in the same park but nothing had really been done about it, that all adds on to their bravado and feeling of being above any law, mix that with drink every night and sickening tragedies like this will happen again.
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

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    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    And in all the places that alcohol is illegal there are no arbitrary violent crimes... right?

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    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    I'm sorry but before we were old enough to drink, obtain drink in anyway or even thought about getting drunk this kinda thing was happening. Random attacks by people in the same "drinking situation" as us. The whole thing screams media moral panic. They are trying to get tougher laws put through just as always. OPEN YOUR EYES!
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  25. #25
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote Risker View Post
    And in all the places that alcohol is illegal there are no arbitrary violent crimes... right?

    i'm sure people still geta hold of alcohol and/or drugs even where it is illegal.
    there would be an awful lot less violence, apathy, mental illness, marital problems, domestic abuse, animal abuse, etc, if alcohol just wasn't available atall, imo.
    i also agree, tho, emzy, that it's the general feeling of powerlessness and depression in the U.K that drives a lot of this - exactly why people abuse alcohol anyway .

  26. #26
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    p.s - yes, there is random violence going on (always has been) within groups of young people but i think it takes the drink/drugs to push it one step on to violent murder.

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote emzy1985 View Post
    Aubergine that is different to the post I recieved in my email!
    That's because I was replying to an earlier post, and it was no longer in context. I keep forgetting to quote the post I'm talking about.



    And back to the thread...

    A thug is a thug regardless of what substances they throw down their throat. To suggest otherwise would be ignoring the evidence many of us see every day.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote emzy1985 View Post
    These kids have nothing worthwhile in their lives and have been failed by the education system, so wonder the streets looking for trouble to make themselves feel important and worth something.
    Whereas "Goths and Emo's" reaction to this alienation is just to try to give out the signals that they won't be part of any mainstream society..

    I wish this thread didn't have so much easy labeling going on.
    I work with socially excluded young people who wear black make up and big boots and have assumed names like Raven, I also work with Burberry wearing trainer obsessives called Little Chris and the like. They are all just people but I bet many here would be more scared of the "Chavs".
    Don't let the media and the politicians prevail in their attempts to demonise.
    They were saying that coffee bars and Mods and Rockers were the end of our society in the Fifties..
    The young people who committed the horrible crime we are discussing are just scum. Ordinary, straight out of the box scum.
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

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    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Very well said Paul.

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    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    [quote=horselesspaul;437310]Whereas "Goths and Emo's" reaction to this alienation is just to try to give out the signals that they won't be part of any mainstream society..
    quote]

    Well that's what I did when I was 14/15.We were the greebos and they were the townies. I'm sorry but subculture does play a part.
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    [quote=emzy1985;437314]
    Quote horselesspaul View Post
    Whereas "Goths and Emo's" reaction to this alienation is just to try to give out the signals that they won't be part of any mainstream society..
    quote]

    Well that's what I did when I was 14/15.We were the greebos and they were the townies. I'm sorry but subculture does play a part.
    I agree with you. We all like our little clubs.
    I just mean that society now associates "Chavs" with violence and "Goths" etc are are laughable mixed up middle class losers.
    Neither is a valid impression.
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

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    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Oh I see what you are saying! They should come and see some of the goths I know lol. Hardly middle class! Anyway the point is stereotyping never did anyone any good.
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Exactly.
    When I was a yoof in the late 70's I was a punk who also liked prog and classical and jazz...
    I ended up living as a traveller for 12 years in a society apart, where I felt at home.
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  34. #34
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote Risker View Post
    And in all the places that alcohol is illegal there are no arbitrary violent crimes... right?
    Tell me where i said that?
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  35. #35
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    back to the thread...

    A thug is a thug regardless of what substances they throw down their throat. To suggest otherwise would be ignoring the evidence many of us see every day.[/quote Aubergine]


    ~ i agree, but using alcohol and/or drugs for 'recreation' loosens inhibitions and distorts reality so fuelling more intense levels of thuggery.

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    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote cobweb View Post
    back to the thread...

    A thug is a thug regardless of what substances they throw down their throat. To suggest otherwise would be ignoring the evidence many of us see every day.[/quote Aubergine]


    ~ i agree, but using alcohol and/or drugs for 'recreation' loosens inhibitions and distorts reality so fuelling more intense levels of thuggery.
    Quite. The difficulty is that we live in a country ruled by a government that believes they can legislate every problem away. To do misses the underlying problems and the tabloid hysteria regarding binge drinking only fuels this line of thought.

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote emzy1985 View Post
    Luckily my mates got away and called the police.
    The police are useless!!! I am so pissed off with the police in this country, most of them are so flippin incompetent. We have youths breaking into homes around where I live. Call 999 and the operator says, "all our units are busy. By the time they get there the lads would have gone". A perfect testimony as to how useless they are. Even if the lads get arrested someone is always there to bail them out on the basis of "human" rights. They get out and do more damage. I personally believe that human rights are for humans, not for barbarians AKA "yobs". These lot are not afraid of the police or anyone.
    Life is like a boomerang: What goes around comes around - "Karma"rocks!

  38. #38
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote aubergine View Post
    Quite. The difficulty is that we live in a country ruled by a government that believes they can legislate every problem away. To do misses the underlying problems and the tabloid hysteria regarding binge drinking only fuels this line of thought.

    ah, yes, the sticking plaster 'solutions'.

  39. #39
    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote aubergine View Post
    Quite. The difficulty is that we live in a country ruled by a government that believes they can legislate every problem away. To do misses the underlying problems and the tabloid hysteria regarding binge drinking only fuels this line of thought.
    I agree entirely with this statement!

    Kiran I love how you stereotype the kinda people who break into house's as lads.What about girls? We are just as naughty I'm an activist, I despise the police maybe even more than the next person. However even though it took them 12 hours to come out to my car the other day when it got broken into, I do believe it is important to report crime....that and I couldn't claim any insurance if I didn't!
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

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    Maisiepaisie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote emzy1985 View Post
    Anyway my point to it was that I think drink and drugs are a moral panic. They are not alot worse than they have been in my life time at least and if they are it is because people feel worthless, powerless and need to escape/feel better. All of that is due to being over taxed and over worked whether be you or the parents who provide for you. The state is therefore creating and stiring the situation so it can introduce more of a police and nanny state and guess what? We as blind citizens support it as "cracking down on crime!" What a load of bullshit!
    Cracking down on crime - When did that happen? I have to say that I think the government should be doing a lot more to get yobs off our streets and if that means living in a nanny state then so be it. Why should that matter to people not doing anything that they shouldn't be? Isn't there some law about loitering in this country? I'm sure there is but I've never known it to be enforced. These youths shouldn't be allowed to hang out in gangs on our streets intimidating people. Why is there not CCTV in my area where the various gangs graffiti their tags everywhere? They could easily catch a whole bunch of this scum.

    I think this whole yob culture thing has been caused by many factors combined and it also depends on the person whether or not they will be led into this. My 13 year old likes rock/metal/emo and has long black hair and wears black clothes. Six years ago my other son who is now 15, was into similar music and clothes but suddenly he decided he wanted to dress like his friends (tracksuit and trainers) and start liking rap and hip hop I think this happened because he's the kind of person who likes to fit in and follow the crowd whereas my other son doesn't care what other people think about him. He will live his life the way he wants to.

    I don't think we can totally blame yob culture on drink either. When I was 14-15 me and my friends often got drunk but we never caused any trouble other than being a bit noisy. Even though my own son is involved in this yob culture I do think the parents are somewhat to blame in many (but not all) cases. A lot of them just don't seem to care about where their kids are and what they're doingand like I said I think there are many other influencing factors including a decline in societys moral standards creating more broken homes than ever before. I would think that the majority of kids exhibiting yobbish behaviour don't have a decent role model playing a big part in their lives.

    I'm not sure what the answer is to preventing yob culture but I think we could start by taking them off the streets and getting them into some sort of compulsory programme that will teach them some morals and if the parents won't cooperate then take action against them too. Lock them up if nothing else works.
    The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well

  41. #41
    IRBFUIPTHITCS Fungus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    IMHO its not the use of alcohol/drugs, its the abuse of them.
    Totally disgusting what they did but somehow its almost as if its not seen as bad in that sort of "culture" .. Just cant imagine someone wanting to kill another person.
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe-Albert Einstein

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote Maisiepaisie View Post
    I'm not sure what the answer is to preventing yob culture but I think we could start by taking them off the streets and getting them into some sort of compulsory programme that will teach them some morals and if the parents won't cooperate then take action against them too. Lock them up if nothing else works.
    Compulsory programmes don't work, the kids feel chagrined and rebel. Offer them opportunities for escaping the life they have, learning new skills. Prince's Trust and its ilk do such programmes and get excellent results. Obviously some kids are just scum, just like adults, but I think this problem will only get worse as more and more teenagers see what life is ahead of them - social exclusion, poverty, disenfranchisement...what have they got to lose by being naughty?

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    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote Maisiepaisie View Post
    Cracking down on crime - When did that happen? I have to say that I think the government should be doing a lot more to get yobs off our streets and if that means living in a nanny state then so be it. Why should that matter to people not doing anything that they shouldn't be? Isn't there some law about loitering in this country? I'm sure there is but I've never known it to be enforced. These youths shouldn't be allowed to hang out in gangs on our streets intimidating people. Why is there not CCTV in my area where the various gangs graffiti their tags everywhere? They could easily catch a whole bunch of this scum.

    I think this whole yob culture thing has been caused by many factors combined and it also depends on the person whether or not they will be led into this. My 13 year old likes rock/metal/emo and has long black hair and wears black clothes. Six years ago my other son who is now 15, was into similar music and clothes but suddenly he decided he wanted to dress like his friends (tracksuit and trainers) and start liking rap and hip hop I think this happened because he's the kind of person who likes to fit in and follow the crowd whereas my other son doesn't care what other people think about him. He will live his life the way he wants to.

    I don't think we can totally blame yob culture on drink either. When I was 14-15 me and my friends often got drunk but we never caused any trouble other than being a bit noisy. Even though my own son is involved in this yob culture I do think the parents are somewhat to blame in many (but not all) cases. A lot of them just don't seem to care about where their kids are and what they're doingand like I said I think there are many other influencing factors including a decline in societys moral standards creating more broken homes than ever before. I would think that the majority of kids exhibiting yobbish behaviour don't have a decent role model playing a big part in their lives.

    I'm not sure what the answer is to preventing yob culture but I think we could start by taking them off the streets and getting them into some sort of compulsory programme that will teach them some morals and if the parents won't cooperate then take action against them too. Lock them up if nothing else works.
    That sounds like something out of a right-wing manifesto!!!

    The government use our lawless society, which they have created, to infringe on our civil liberties. For example - the kids feel disaffected because they have no education, come from poor and over taxed families. They therefore do things to feel important like forming gangs and commiting crimes against a society which has shunned them and deprived them of the things they most desire i.e flash cars etc. Anyway then the government insists on putting CCTV everywhere so it can keep an eye on everyone and everything. I don't care if I don't have nothing to hide. I have a civil liberty of privacy and I intend to keep it. This is not 1984. Another example is the evidence gatherers at demos and marchs. They take high quality pictures, some have such high quality they can get your finger prints from it. I always have my face covered with a placard and gloves on(not that it matters because I am on record anyway but that is not the point). They take pictures incase we are organising some ALF raid or something. We are fucking lawfully protesting and have nothing to hide. It intimidates people and makes them feel like criminals for going on demos and so therefore the big companies win and the government. You should watch the film, "Taking Liberties." Would explain my view point a little better.

    Yob culture btw is a myth pushed by the media. Look at who the yobs are and you will see from my previous posts that it is subculture and not yob culture that instigates this behaviour. Also who are state to decide what is right or wrong? They would have us all eating meat if they could and prison is not the answer for people who have not commited a crime.
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  44. #44
    IRBFUIPTHITCS Fungus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Couldnt agree more emzy ..
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Emzy. the police filming at AR demos is a totally different issue and in that situation I completely agree with you that its out of order. But I do think that if the police would put the same enthusiasm into ridding our streets of yobs we might actually see some nice changes.

    Not all these kids come from a life of poverty. My son certainly doesn't. We don't have a lot but its not poverty. He gets clothes bought for him and 10 a week pocket money. At least two of his gang member friends live in non-rented nice homes too.

    I can only speak for my son as I don't know the others on a personal level but I've tried to get my son interested in various activities but he's just not interested. All he seems to want to do is hang out with these deadleg mates he has who are regularly involved in gang wars. I'm trying my best to get him back on the right path and so are the social workers but so far we've had little success. I honestly don't think there will be success unless we can find away to get him away from this gang.

    Also who are state to decide what is right or wrong?
    I'm not sure what you were referring to with this but I think we can all agree that gangs of teenagers loitering on the streets are a nuisance and even if they don't say anything, they appear intimidating, especially to elderly people.

    prison is not the answer for people who have not commited a crime.
    I agree, but not taking action to helping your children when they've committed a crime should be a crime in itself. The mother of one of those boys who committed this atrocity was laughing. Do you not think she should be locked up? I do, or at least she should have her children taken off her. She's not fit to bring up children. Its no surprise her son grew up like this when she can laugh at someone being murdered.
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    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote Maisiepaisie View Post
    Emzy. the police filming at AR demos is a totally different issue and in that situation I completely agree with you that its out of order. But I do think that if the police would put the same enthusiasm into ridding our streets of yobs we might actually see some nice changes.

    Not all these kids come from a life of poverty. My son certainly doesn't. We don't have a lot but its not poverty. He gets clothes bought for him and 10 a week pocket money. At least two of his gang member friends live in non-rented nice homes too.

    I can only speak for my son as I don't know the others on a personal level but I've tried to get my son interested in various activities but he's just not interested. All he seems to want to do is hang out with these deadleg mates he has who are regularly involved in gang wars. I'm trying my best to get him back on the right path and so are the social workers but so far we've had little success. I honestly don't think there will be success unless we can find away to get him away from this gang.

    I'm not sure what you were referring to with this but I think we can all agree that gangs of teenagers loitering on the streets are a nuisance and even if they don't say anything, they appear intimidating, especially to elderly people.

    I agree, but not taking action to helping your children when they've committed a crime should be a crime in itself. The mother of one of those boys who committed this atrocity was laughing. Do you not think she should be locked up? I do, or at least she should have her children taken off her. She's not fit to bring up children. Its no surprise her son grew up like this when she can laugh at someone being murdered.

    I can't figure out how to multiquote so here goes.

    I don't think it is a different issue Maisiepaisie! I think that if the government weren't so hooked on the money they get from animal abusing industries, I wouldn't be at demos trying to stop them and people wouldn't feel the need to commit crime against industry to liberate animals would they? I think that if kids had a good and fullfilling education which incorporated acedemia and practical qualifications, an expansion on the apprentice scheme, if families had more money to do interesting things with their kids and if they actually felt appreciated as a member of society then maybe they wouldn't be such bastards to the rest of us?

    I certainly didn't come from a life of poverty and neither did my neice although both of us were arrested for things (which now would give us ASBOs or maybe even time inside) when we were between the ages of 13-14. I know this shit because I have lived it. Social circumstance at home doesn't nessicarily mean you will be a thug. I was disillusioned with the education system and she was part of a gang because it made her feel better as she was underachieving at school. At 15 I changed the way I lived and I'm ashamed of the shit I have done but fuck it, it happened and I understand why.

    Maybe your son has underlying issues like I did. Maybe he is jealous of his well behaved sibling, maybe he thinks you treat him unfairly, maybe he isn't doing well at school or maybe he just needs to feel important. At the end of the day I do believe that parents are a massive ideological influence, however look at the other shit kids are influenced by. Sport, TV and Media, School, friends etc etc. I do believe the mother is a scum bag and would like to give her a slap, but in a free society she should not be locked up for thought crime. That is not democracy if indeed it ever existed!
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    well here goes - for me, there comes a time when we have to stop blaming others, government, police, school, friends...for our actions. people find themselves in very different social situations, which is just the way it happens sometimes, from poverty to affluence. if we are breaking the law we expect to be brought to bear don't we? if we don't want to be brought to task - er, don't break the law, whatever the issue.

    of course everything in our current society CAN and DOES have an influence on us but what has happened to taking responsibility for yourself? there's a point before a crime is committed, the point at which the crime is being committed and the after effects of the crime. what is happing with the thought processes at these points? i understand however, that for some youths, peer pressure is so strong that they get involved in events and issues that they may be too afraid to say no to.

    in my limited opinion, we should stop planting the buck on schools expecting them to either sort problems out or to be a nanny for our children AND expect them to educate too.

    speaking as a mother and with experience of working in secondary school, life training, manners, self esteem and respect, social skills, starts from the year dot and continues through all the formative years. of course schools help to mould our young people, but they should not be expected to deal with or sort out the social problems of children, they are not social workers. most staff i have known are passionately interested in their students and that extends to being concerned about them socially and at home.

    what happened to personal responsibility? - maybe thats just an old fashioned ideal i cling to?

    just my humble opinion - don't want to upset anyone.

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    i agree - i think that a lot of people are struggling to make ends meet in the U.K and many young people are possibly feeling that their future choices are therefore limited - BUT! - yes, we all have to make the best of life. Unfortunately too many parents don't seem to want to do that and i suppose their children are just not taught to do this for themselves, then, either.

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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote cedarblue View Post


    what happened to personal responsibility? - maybe thats just an old fashioned ideal i cling to?

    just my humble opinion - don't want to upset anyone.
    I absolutely agree, I think the concept of personal responsibility and parental responsiblity for children should definately make a comeback. However until that happens (I'm not holding out much hope TBH) the teens who grow up seeing that their futures are hopeless, who are treated like a number at school, ignored at home, raised by the TV, who see the gap between the privileged and the rest growing ever-wider...these kids need to be offered opportunities that they haven't had before. A chance to learn skills, feel proud of themselves, achieve something.

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    Maisiepaisie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beaten to death for being a goth *WARNING* - Graphic images and description

    Quote emzy1985 View Post
    I think that if kids had a good and fullfilling education which incorporated acedemia and practical qualifications, an expansion on the apprentice scheme, if families had more money to do interesting things with their kids and if they actually felt appreciated as a member of society then maybe they wouldn't be such bastards to the rest of us?
    Thats a good point and the lack of money has been caused by the government overtaxing us. So yes I would definately agree that this has contributed to the yob culture. Maybe that would help a lot but I don't think it would completely solve this issue. Theres a lot more that would need to be addressed. At least you changed and realised what you did wrong and thats something to be proud of. I hope my son will realise too that this is not the best way to live life and I will be there to help him.
    Last edited by Maisiepaisie; Mar 29th, 2008 at 05:27 PM. Reason: add quote tags
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