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Thread: Oh no! Evil website!

  1. #1

    Default Oh no! Evil website!

    What do you guys think? This isn't right! It makes me sooo mad!

    Please tell me any and all thoughts. Point to inaccuracies! Tell me something! I don't want to believe their info on AR groups! Please...Just give me something so I can sleep tonight knowing that this website is lying!

  2. #2
    MarkAnthony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Guernsey, it's bigotrytastic

    Default Re: Oh no! Evil website!

    There's no doubt that AR groups have in the past engaged in activities that can only be described as 'terrorism'. And there are activities that cannot be described as such that I would describe as fruitless, counter-productive and ultimately pointless. These are the ones we tend to hear about most in the media, it is not the full story. I do not condemn all illegal activities carried out in the name of animal rights, but at a basic level I feel that many of them perpetuate a negative image of animal rights activists at the very least, and in extreme cases severely harm human animals in the name of non-human animals. What's the point?

    That said, this guy's website is shit, to put it quite bluntly. He exaggerates, offers no intelligent debate on the issues in question and is branding all AR campaigns with the same brush. He's taking basic dogmatised assumptions as facts. 'I don't care how many animals have to die, if we can cure a disease, if we can save lives, it's worth it.' Even in a Singeresque utilitarian sense this still resides on the faulty premise that one human life is morally worth an infinite number of animal lives. There are countless other examples of him behaving in a similar way in other parts of this site, it's not worth our time frankly. I'm not opposed to pet ownership (in certain circumstances) but to assume it to be acceptable with no justification is ludicrous. He even claims to be an animal welfarist who supports fur. Please.

    That said, I do share his unease at elements of the unlawful activity of AR activists, just not a lot of the rest of the crap on there.
    There’s a statue that the abattoir erected to remind us all of their contributions. To me it marks Potemkin City Limits, this Francis cast in bronze.

  3. #3
    Lover of ducks Mila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    San Francisco, California, USA

    Default Re: Oh no! Evil website!

    Oh, no! They're against buying animals! Too bad this person can't stand loving a dog from a shelter. I'd bet they only sleep with virgins, too. Besides, all this idiot talks about is dogs and humans. (DUH! They're the only animals that matter. [*chortle*]) They never stopped eating animals for a second, either. Big animal-lover, eh?

    This person is just another idiot clearly with neither taste nor talent for web design nor any idea how to use an include. Eh, don't pay attention to it. There's alot of these out there.
    I'm just a love machine and I won't work without a union contract.

  4. #4
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004

    Default Re: Oh no! Evil website!

    Lots of vegans agree that the organizations mentioned on that site actually are doing the same mistakes many non-vegans point at - but from a different perspective. You don't need to agree with Peta, and definitely not with ALF's or ELF's kind of activism in order to be a began. Internet is full of sites/people criticizing Peta, ELF, ALF and similar organizations.

    We banned 20-30 people from this site (mainly in 2005) who tried to use it to promote ALF. While the number of people who have been involved in promoting ALF is extremely small, they have been so active at some vegan forums (until they have become banned), that they may have give an impression that vegan = involved in illegal activism.

    Peta, OTOH, claim to have 1.6 million members, which seems a bit strange since their forum has only 1100 members. Nevertheless - Peta and several of their leaders have shown an association/support for ALF that not only makes lots of people not want to support them, but which of course makes it harder for Peta to be publicly accepted by vegans/vegetarians who are not interested in / do not want to support some of the stuff Peta is/has been involved in, let alone be accepted by eg. schools looking for information about veganism or vegan nutrition.

    You'll see that most of the sites that disagree with eg. Peta are run by people who aren't vegans. I guess that vegans or people who want to be involved in any kind of activism for animals rather want to use energy on promoting what they want to promote instead of setting up sites that criticize Peta or ALF. The person behind the site you mentioned wrote that "Welfarists like myself don't mind eating meat or wearing leather", so of course they won't only not support Peta, they wouldn't support a normal vegan organization either - which is why I'm not surprised or upset that they set up another anti-AR-activist site.

    If there's something to be surprised - or even upset - about, it is that this tiny number of people involved in supporting eg. ALF unfortunately don't respect the vegan movement so much that they accept that it's better for the vegan movement (and therefore for the animals) that the public clearly understands that 'being vegan' and 'supporting ALF or similar groups' are two different things.

    While I don't support Peta or any of the other groups mentioned on the site you linked to, I think the site is kind of silly - and it definitely doesn't contain one single reason pro eating meat or wearing leather, or reasons not to go vegan.

  5. #5
    hullabaloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Oh no! Evil website!

    The thing about the web is anything can write anything they want. That doesn't make what they say valid or factual at all. Just from looking at the website it's easy enough to tell that it's not a trustworthy source of information.

    Does anyone know where I could watch the dispatches programme that was metioned- the documentary 'Inside the ALF'?

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Northern Ireland

    Default Re: Oh no! Evil website!

    I don't think that website is relevant at all to this forum. I just quickly searched all the pages for the word vegan and he didn't appear to mention it once in the entire thing. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that by posting this thread, tofurkey attempts to make an unwarranted (and to some insulting) link between being vegan and being a member of or supporting peta. I don't care to identify myself with political movements, nor should it ever be inferred of me due to the vegan lifestyle choice I've made.

    This is just another anti-peta website that has little or nothing to do with the general vegan public. In fact, while the information on the website is not from primary sources, I have definitely seen a lot of it on reputable documentary programs. Like it or not, activist groups are a very vocal minority and they tend to reflect badly on anything related to them. I'm actually fairly pleased that the maker of the website linked here didn't tar all vegans with the same brush as organisations like peta.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Oh no! Evil website!

    There are probably more vegans in the world than people who are specifically "anti vegan". Most meat eaters aren't actively anti animal rights..they're just apathetic or ignorant.

    I'm not worried about little sites like that because they have no foundation. They're built on hate and insecurity. Lacking integrity, their movement is impotent.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Oh no! Evil website!

    In fact, I'd go as far as to say that by posting this thread, tofurkey attempts to make an unwarranted (and to some insulting) link between being vegan and being a member of or supporting peta.
    That was not my intention. I apologize.

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