Cholesterol

[gertvegan]

a little background about my cholesterol, I am a 21 year old female, average weight (I *suppose* I could lose a couple pounds), and my cholesterol was 275 pre-vegan. That was 2 points higher than my dad's was when he had a heart attack! I started taking Lipitor immediately. Anyway, two months after becoming a vegan, I was retested, and my levels were so low, they dropped my meds to the lowest dose. I stopped taking Lipitor after a month because I wanted to see what my cholesterol level was without it. I just tested myself, and five months after becoming a vegan, my cholesterol level is a completely normal and healthy 169 Sorry for boring everyone, but I am reeaallly excited. I was told that I was so genetically disposed to high cholesterol that I would be on a statin the rest of my life, no matter what my diet and exercise was like.

Thanks for sharing Kelzie, reeaallly good to hear. All the best.

[Tofu Monster]

i had my cholesterol tested today for the first time ever. it was 5.81. apparently 5.5 is the optimum result for my age group but i was told my result is within 'normal' range. seeing as i'm a fat bastard i think i did ok.

this old dear that tested me asked me if i eat a healthy diet and i said yeah cos i don't eat animal products so she said oh so you're a vegetarian? so i said no i'm a vegan then she was rabbiting on about how i should take supplements and she said do you take fish oil? so i said no (thinking of course not you stupid woman, and what do you think i can get from fish oil that i can't get elsewhere anyway?) so she said so you're a FULL vegan? with a face like this smiley so i said yes (thinking what other kind is there?). then i thanked her and left.

[eve]

Is there anyone here who has high cholesterol (inherited) despite not having eaten any food for many years, that contains cholesterol? I was prescribed 10mg Lipitor some years back, but recently stopped taking it as I read that long-term use can cause some neuropathy problems. So instead bought some 'cholesterol balance' tablets that are made from globe artichoke. Now I guess it's possible to eat heaps of globe artichokes every day, but as it happens the vegetable doesn't seem to appear here, so I eat the tablet. However, I wonder of someone was on Lipitor or similar statin drug, and stopped? In a few months time, I may get my cholesterol readings done just to check it out.

[veganblue]

... So instead bought some 'cholesterol balance' tablets that are made from globe artichoke. Now I guess it's possible to eat heaps of globe artichokes every day, but as it happens the vegetable doesn't seem to appear here, so I eat the tablet.

I can probably send the seed which should probably grow in the tropics - (doesn't everything grow in the tropics?) since it is just a magnificent thistle flower that is very popular amongst Italian home gardeners?

It's a bugger to cook though; the heart tastes like vinegared potato once I have finished with it - there is the possibility that it could be okay raw?

[Tigerlily]

Hey, I'm just jumping into this thread. I didn't read all the replies, sorry if this has been asked.

My biology teacher said we need cholesterol in our bodies? That there is good and bad cholesterol? Is this true? Where is the "good" ones from? Animal sources? I'm really confused.

[Kiva Dancer]

As I understand it, we do need cholesterol but our bodies make it for us, we don't have to "supplement" with outside sources. There is good and bad cholesterol. The good is HDL (high density lipids) and the bad is LDL (low density lipids). There are things that will make the LDLs rise such as trans-fatty acids/hydrogenated oils, saturated fat (most of which is found in animal products) and things that make HDL rise such as whole grains, fruits, veggies, nuts, and deep leafy greens. If I'm understanding correctly, it's ideal to have the HDL nice and high and the LDL nice and low.

That's a sorta oversimplified explination of cholesterol. I'm sure others can go into deeper detail than I.

[eve]

I can probably send the seed which should probably grow in the tropics - (doesn't everything grow in the tropics?) since it is just a magnificent thistle flower that is very popular amongst Italian home gardeners?
It's a bugger to cook though; the heart tastes like vinegared potato once I have finished with it - there is the possibility that it could be okay raw?

Thank you for the thought, veganblue, but I don't really have a garden, just grow pot plants, and I have no desire to grow pots of sufficient globe artichokes to keep me supplied. The tablets will do for me, just lazy I guess.

[phillip888]

I don't think consuming cholesterol is the only issue (since the human liver produces it too). Consuming too many fats, and the wrong kind will raise your cholesterol. Also cholesterol imbalance has a more devastating effect on people who do not exercise. Taking in excess from corpses just makes a bad situation worse.

Tigerlily some call the two cholesterol carrying compounds in question 'good' and 'bad'. The truth is they are just different carriers of fat and protein, but an imbalance with HDL as the lesser cholesterol carrier is more conductive to heart disease, as is an overabundance of both.

Vegans livers can produce too much cholesterol too if they take in saturated fats (vegetable oils, nuts, and seeds). Vegans also tend to get large amounts of fiber in their diet though, which can block and deconstruct cholesterol based plaque associated with heart disease. Raw green leafy veggies also help keep your arterial walls elastic and smooth, another strike against cholesterol buildup.

There are many supposed scientists and experts that have claimed diet doesn't effect cholesterol production signifigantly. In order for this to be true, the laws of physics must be broken. To be blunt, your liver must have raw materials to make HDL and LDL. How can a scientist claim that's not true? Well... $$$

[adam antichrist]

I have skimmed the contents of some of the threads in the health forums but can't find anything about cholesterol supplementation. Since we vegans don't get cholesterol through diet, are there supplements available to rectify potential deficiencies? Does anyone take or know of anything that can be taken to ensure cholesterol levels don't sink too low?

Alternatively, has anyone experienced or know of hormone problems relating to insufficient cholesterol levels?

[Artichoke47]

What? Your body makes all the cholesterol you need. Hypocholesterolemia is very rare and probably misdiagnosed. There are people in China with cholesterol levels of 90, and they're healthy as can be. If you do not feel well and have low cholesterol, don't forget to look at other dietary/health/exercise/lifestyle factors. Cholesterol isn't supposed to be above 150.

[Pilaf]

Artichoke is correct. If you don't feel well, don't blame it on low cholesterol. The lower your cholesterol is, the better (up to a reasonable point of course).

[adam antichrist]

No, I feel fine! I just hadn't seen anything about it on the forum (until now ) but cholesterol is the steroid that is the basis of all other steroids in the body such as sex hormones etc so I wondered if there were issues I haven't come across yet...
I know too much cholesterol is bad but was curious as to whether we will get too little from our diet but it appears not!

[ConsciousCuisine]

I know too much cholesterol is bad but was curious as to whether we will get too little from our diet but it appears not!

If you are vegan, you'll get zero cholesterol from your diet, as only animal products contain cholesterol. Some people who have had concerns about low cholesterol have used exercise and oils rich in saturated fats such as coconut and palm oils to assist in raising levels.

[Cryospark]

oils from seeds nuts and olives and such contain poly and monounsaturated fats and a small amount of saturated fat coconut and palm oil seem to have the most saturated fat, the saturated fat i believe to be the fat that is already in the process of delivery as a hdl or ldl so you get so much of it from animal products it will raise your LDL, you don't need to raise your ldl ever your liver produces enough an ldl is half made of cholestorol the minimum amount possible of this is best, you will see on a test the doctor gives you there should be no range between two amounts, the optimum amount is below a number only, i figure the ldl contains waste to be excreted from the body it also diminishes blood flow in large proportions allowing for oxidation decay of the cells which get no oxygen. The poly and mono however tend to lower your ldl the poly and the mono means that the fat has somewhere to attatch hydrogen to the cholestorol, this helps the body in some way of disposing of the cholesterol which then lower cholesterol total, a healthy liver will make enough cholesterol to maintain the body adding to it with saturated fats overworks the liver which also has to dispose of that cholesterol, the liver is a busy lad and he doesnt wanna work constantly he likes rest. HDL is comprised half of protein and does a better job then LDL's because it doesnt cause strain on the heart to pump around the body HDL makes your liver happy because it then has less of a job to do then it does with LDL. If you have to much LDL your liver is to busy to make HDL your HDL will drop outside healthy levels your body will stop cleansing itself well, you develop diseases of all kinds. Vegan dieters don't need to worry abort fats as long as the liver is healthy drinking alchohol will also raise your cholestorol and damage your liver, the liver will have to balance the alchohol and in the same process it does this it creates more cholesterol then it would like. This is the same with any kind of toxin partaken in excess amounts like smoking.
yah HDL = high density lipoproteins LDL = Low
I figure the HDl being more dense contains better cleansing and waste disposal properties the the low density counterpart.
Yeah I apologise if the information isn't entirely correct I just go by what I can remember from wherever that was I learned it
The better oils are supposedly olive oil and almond butter for poly and mono most of the others you find on the shelf won't be as good and have more saturated fats

[celtic rose]

I'm one of the unlucky ones with a hereditary tendency towards high cholesterol.
I last had it tested around 10 years ago when I was veggie and it measured 5.7. So I went on a low fat diet for 3 months and was re-tested. It went UP to 5.9.
I haven't bothered since.

I just got retested and am happy to say it has gone down to 4.60.
Simply by going vegan.

[Geoff]

My last total cholesterol reading was 3.1 (120 U.S.) which my cardiologist said was too high so I might aim for the Chinese figure of 2.3 (90).
I take policosanol (synthesised from sugar cane waxes) but it's a bit expensive at $36 a month.

[waveslidah]

Since we vegans don't get cholesterol through diet, are there supplements available to rectify potential deficiencies? Does anyone take or know of anything that can be taken to ensure cholesterol levels don't sink too low?

Dean Ornish, a researcher at UCSF in California is the only scientist to ever have demonstrated through published clinical randomized peer reviewed scientific experiments that severe heart disease can be reversed through diet without drugs or surgery. He argues that your cholesterol can only get too low through drugs and that our body produces the all of the cholesterol we need so if you're not on cholesterol lowering drugs there is no need to worry about cholesterol.

[eve]

Let's not forget that there is a familial cholesterol. As mentioned previously I've not eaten anything containing cholesterol, that is, no animal product at all, for around 40 years, but I had high cholesterol that the doc told me is an inherited trait. I've been on 10mg Lipitor for some years, but last April I stopped taking it, and instead take a 'cholesterol balance' tablet made from mostly artichokes.

Next week I'm having a blood test to check, so it will be interesting to see the effect. BTW Geoff, do you use a table to make the comparison with US readings?

[Geoff]

BTW Geoff, do you use a table to make the comparison with US readings?

To convert US cholesterol levels to U.K. / Aus multiply by .0259. I was given this by a doctor at QML so I assume it's correct.

[harpy]

Yes, I think that's right - it seems to work the same as the method given below (which I think I must have snaffled off a web site but I don't have the ref any more). You need to use a different conversion for triglycerides though.

"To convert mmol/l of HDL or LDL cholesterol to mg/dl, multiply by 39. To convert mg/dl of HDL or LDL cholesterol to mmol/l, divide by 39. To convert mmol/l of triglycerides to mg/dl, multiply by 89. To convert mg/dl of triglycerides to mmol/l, divide by 89. To convert umol (micromoles) /l of creatinine to mg/dl, divide by 88. To convert mg/dl of creatinine to umol/l, multiply by 88."

[Northchild]

Was just tested and had high cholesterol. Mind you, this is only after a couple months of being vegan, so the problem may correct itself. I'm now 3 months in. Have lost 35 pounds, which is nice. Have about 35 more to lose.

My doctor mentioned two main things: reduce carb intake, and take fish oil pills. She's cool about my veganism though and is open to me taking other stuff instead of fish oil? Does anyone know if flax oil is just as good for cholesterol? And how in heck am I supposed to replace carb intake because frankly it's most of my diet? The only big-protein sources that I like are soymilk and walnuts... I'm not overfond of tofu or mock meats/cheeses.

Any additional help greatly appreciated. Thanks for any input.

[Blueshark]

A vegan diet (i.e. no animal products) is completely cholesterol free.

I don't why your doctor said Fish oils - it will be for Omega 3. Flax seed oil contains omega 3 and is vegan.

A well balanced vegan diet will reduce your cholesterol and your weight in time - it is not a race!

[eclectic_one]

I think you're doing the right things (being vegan helps cholesterol immensely and I'm sure you know that), but there are some specifics about what to eat etc too. You've cut out dietary cholesterol already by becoming vegan (as it's only in animal sources), you also need to cut out as much saturated fat as possible, but to help with triglycerides you need to cut down or out simple carbohydrates (white sugar, high fructose corn syrup, white pasta, white bread, etc), and eat lots of complex carbohydrates (the soluble and insoluble fiber helps fight against cholesterol). Here's a good source of info (they have more info in other areas of their webpage): http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/c...olesterol.html

[harpy]

Yes, there are some studies suggesting that flax oil should do the job your doctor has in mind - some of them are mentioned here: http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxifi...t/flaxseed.htm

I agree, it's the simple carbohydrates that your doctor probably wants you to cut down on. The ones in wholegrains and also in nuts, fruit and vegetables should be fine. How about beans and lentils - do you like those?

[eve]

sometimes a high cholesterol level is genetic, as it is in my case, so although I've not consumed anything containing cholesterol for many, many years, still I have to be really careful. I'm actually taking a 'cholesterol balance' tablet made with artichokes. So far the readings are good.

[foxytina_69]

hi everyone,

my stepmoms best friend is very sick from high cholesterol. shes in her 60's, knows nothing of how to change her diet to make it better, and has no internet to search on.

my step mom asked me if i had any info i could give her, about my vegan diet and how it could help high cholesterol, or any information on how to lower it at all. they told her if it doesnt drop that she will die.

does anyone have any links i could read about veganism dropping cholesterol or just how to drop cholesterol levels anyways?

thank you everyone!

[Seaside]

I think you have to reduce saturated fat intake, foxytina, not just cholesterol ridden foods. Of course, going vegan eliminates cholesterol from the diet. Hydrogenated fats are bad too. Oatmeal is supposed to contain soluble fiber that will slightly reduce cholesterol, but wheat and rice brans do not, as they are a different sort of fiber. I don't have any links though. Try Googling.

[Pob]

Soy milk is supposed to reduce cholesterol, too.

[harpy]

The whole area is rather controversial but I think there is some consensus that people should reduce their overall fat intake, but particularly intake of saturated fats (in animal products, palm oil and coconut oil) and also hydrogenated fats. Monounsaturated fats such as those in olive oil and nuts may be helpful, if eaten in moderation. It used to be said that you should minimise cholesterol in food (e.g. eggs) but now some people think that's less important.

Vegan diets tend to have a healthier fat profile unless of course you eat a lot of pastry and fried foods. Eating a lot of fruit and veg is helpful not only because these contain little fat but also because the fibre in them may have a beneficial effect on cholesterol levels.

There are also a number of foods that are supposed to have cholesterol-reducing properties (oats are one!). There are also synthetic products such as margarines that contain substances that reduce "bad" cholesterol levels (but may have unknown side effects in the long run, some critics say). Taking exercise and losing weight if you're overweight is also said to be important.

If the person has really high cholesterol their doctor will probably recommend drug treatment as well as lifestyle changes. There are genetic factors that can make it very hard for some people to improve their cholesterol levels through diet and exercise alone.

There is a lot of information on the web, but as always some sites are more reliable than others. I don't know of a comprehensive and fully up-to-date one but here are a few starting places

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/publ...chol/wyntk.htm
http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/en.aspx?...&articleId=100
http://www.thevegetariansite.com/diet_stud.htm
http://www.weightlossresource.com/li...cat/Nutrition/

[Yogini]

Last year at this time, I was a veggie ex-vegan who kept saying she was going to go back to veganism. I finally did.

Just got my test results back: cholesterol went from extremely high risk to healthy. All other tests are good as well. My doctor listed my health as "excellent" on the form my university needed filled out.

Not bad for a fat girl, huh?

[harpy]

Well done, yogini! Is that just from reverting to vegan or did you take some other steps as well?

[Yogini]

I started exercising a lot more, as well. But I didn't take any cholesterol medication. My doctor told me after my first cholesterol test that my age was the only reason he wasn't putting me on them and that I needed to get my numbers down if I didn't want to end up on Lipitor or something or like that. Which was a huge incentive.

[harpy]

That's interesting, Yogini. I suspect exercise, as well as diet, makes a big difference. And it actually seems to make one healthier, unlike the medications which just reduce the cholesterol (there seems to be some debate about whether high cholesterol levels are a problem in themselves or a "marker" for other problems).

[Seaside]

You are right about that, harpy. Exercise actually does as much if not more for your health than diet. I always forget about that, because exercise is part of my job, and I don't do any extra "working out". But most people do sedentary work, which makes it important to get some sort of physical activity into their daily routines.

[greeniebean]

I have been fortunate to have the opportunity to have my cholesterol checked 3 times in the past 2 years. The results:

As Junk food vegetarian: Total Cholesterol 151 (didn't get HDL breakdown)

After 4 months vegan : Total Cholesterol 146, HDL("good cholesterol") 46

After 14 months vegan: Total Cholesterol 154, HDL ("good") 77

Can anyone explain why my overall cholesterol as a vegan of 14 months is HIGHER than when I was an ice cream, egg and cheese eating vegetarian? Does the fact that my good (HDL) level has increased so much shed any light on why the total number has gone up too?

In addition to being vegan, I avoid hydrogenated oil. Why is my cholesterol up??

[PumpkinGuy]

greeniebean,
your cholesterol changes daily, as for everyone. Your numbers look good.

[greeniebean]

Thanks PumpkinGuy,

I didn't know cholesterol could actually change daily. Good to know!

: )

[Blueshark]

I think it is unbelievable, about the lack of knowledge omnis have of cholesterol.

Recently I have had two (heated) arguments with friends I have known for over 20 years. Both omnis and one is a hospital surgeon.

The surgeon said avocados had cholesterol and was adamant.

The other chap, today, claimed certain nuts contained cholesterol. I bet him my future life earnings that he was wrong and he matched my bet.

Also the 'number one' student at my previous uni, claimed coconuts and avocados contained cholesterol.

But only animals (incl humans) can produce it.

Seemingly some plants contain trans fats, which can increase cholesterol production. source

[veganblue]

But only animals (incl humans) can produce it.

Seemingly some plants contain trans fats, which can increase cholesterol production. source

Hey Blueshark! Plant based foods that contain trans fats as described in the article I am quite certain refer to hydrogenated vegetable oils - which are not naturally occurring. Cis-fats are the ones that are produced by organisms - any living thing that produces fatty acids anyhow - and it is only after bubbling hydrogen through the oil at high temperatures and pressure with a transition metal catalyst that the fat is converted from a poly or mono unsaturated fat mix to a saturated fat mix of both cis and trans fats.

The vegetable oil based marg that I use is less then 1% trans-fats - and the recommendation is anything less than 3% is okay.

There is some interesting information here about phytosterols that are produced by plants. Most sources say that no plants produce cholesterol but that is not entirely true since there are studies that have detected cholesterols in plant tissues; primarily seeds.

Note in the article that this credible source regards the ancient human diet to have contained more plant food than the standard western diet...

[eclectic_one]

Doesn't this linked-to article say that plants do not have cholesterol: basically that plants have phytosterols, NOT cholesterol (two different forms of sterols)?

[veganblue]

Doesn't this linked-to article say that plants do not have cholesterol: basically that plants have phytosterols, NOT cholesterol (two different forms of sterols)?

Ahhh - if you mean the article I linked to - yes - it's talking about phytosterols. I was not trying to indicate cholesterol in plants, just that phytosterols are interesting to know about.

[eclectic_one]

I agree that phytosterols are interesting to know about...I didn't really know about them until you put up the link. Thanks

I really didn't think (from the reading I've done) that any non-animal products had cholesterol in them, hence my response to this statement:

There is some interesting information here about phytosterols that are produced by plants. Most sources say that no plants produce cholesterol but that is not entirely true since there are studies that have detected cholesterols in plant tissues; primarily seeds.

[veganblue]

I really didn't think (from the reading I've done) that any non-animal products had cholesterol in them...

I am trying to think *why* plants rarely have cholesterols and apart from them just not using them - I can't think of a better reason.

Plants tend not to have saturated fatty acids either unless they come from a tropical region. Saturated fats solidify at temperatures below 30 C so not too mobile if your ambient temerature is rarely above 15 C. Coconut and palm oil are high in saturated fats and also grown in tropical zones.

The other option is cholesterol is used in the lipid bilayer of animal cells and may have something to do with structural integrity. Plants have a cellulose network in the walls around the membrane - maybe that has something to do with it?

[eclectic_one]

Oh, I know that saturated fats can be converted to cholesterol, I just thought you were saying that cholesterol has been found in plants while all my reading (thus far) has indicated that only animals contain/produce cholesterol.

See here: http://msucares.com/health/nutrition/nutrifaq14.html

And this quote from Wikipedia:
Vegan diets bestow several nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, no cholesterol, no animal protein, and higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals.

[Blazin_Gwen]

my bad cholestorol is 120 that's great cuz' the average vegan cholestorol is supposed to be 133.

[insubordination]

I've heard that veg*ns can have elevated cholesterol. I have a friend in the vegetarian society and consulted her because I was sick. She once wrote an email saying this. Make of it what you will. She was doing research on the subject.

Re: Vegan Health
Cholesterol is important for the body to manufacture hormones. Vegans consume no dietary cholesterol and a growing number of vegans are reporting difficulties due to low hormonal levels.

B12, Iron and Taurine levels have ALL been found to be low in some vegans and homocysteine levels, too high.




Recommended Blood Tests

Cholesterol (including HDL & LDL)
Hormones
TSH (Thyroid Simulating Hormone)
DHEAS (mother of all hormones)
Steroids, all of – Estrogen, Progesterone, and Testosterone

B12
Homocysteine
Iron (including Ferritin)

Taurine (Amino acid test)
ESR (erythrocyte sedimentation rate)





Got them tested, mostly had iron and thyroid probs but hormones were OK. Even as a junk food vegan or with massive coconut oil intake, mine has never gone above 3.4.

[eggplant]

When I was an ovo-lacto-pescotarian and wasn't exercising, my cholesterol was 207. A couple years later and I was vegan, exercising regularly and I'd lost 35 pounds--165. Not only that, but apparently my ratio of good to bad cholesterol is perfect. The doctor wrote on my chart that I had "longevity syndrome." I thought he was joking, but he said that's what they call it when the ratio is ideal because studies show that people who have such a ratio live for a very long time. Woo-hoo!!! As long as I don't get hit by a bus or something...

[Tigerlily]

"ovo-lacto-pescotarian"?

Omnivore would be easier to type out.

[Roxy]

Hehe Tigerlily

See eggplant - you are living proof that a vegan diet really IS good for people!

[eggplant]

"ovo-lacto-pescotarian"?

Omnivore would be easier to type out.

Well, yeah, but there are degrees of omnivorism. I wanted to emphasize that it doesn't take eating big slabs of red meat to make your cholesterol high...