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Thread: Global Warming

  1. #51
    seitan
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote big Good Wolf View Post

    So Don't Have Children. Problem Solved.
    Doosh!!! :d

  2. #52
    I eve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Vegabond View Post
    Fact:
    June 2008 the coolest (perhaps third coolest) June in 40 years. July was even worse...if the earth is warming, I'd hate to be here when it's cooling down
    I live in sunny Queensland Australia where we've had drought for years, and hardly notice the season called 'winter' but for the last month or more, it is extremely c-o-l-d, dropping to something like 5 degrees Centigrade over night, and I'm wearing a warm jacket every day to go out! Like you, Vegabond, I'd like to know what's happened to global warming!
    Eve

  3. #53
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    The term "global warming" is perhaps a bit misleading as some people think climate change could mean colder winters in some parts of the world

    http://tinyurl.com/5ete62

  4. #54
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote eve View Post
    I live in sunny Queensland Australia where we've had drought for years, and hardly notice the season called 'winter' but for the last month or more, it is extremely c-o-l-d, dropping to something like 5 degrees Centigrade over night, and I'm wearing a warm jacket every day to go out! Like you, Vegabond, I'd like to know what's happened to global warming!
    Well, looking at that temperature anomaly map in that link i posted the 2 of you just happen to be in the few parts of the world that have suffered a colder rather than a hotter first 6 months of the year!
    Unlucky!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Mahk View Post
    Global warming seems to be a reality but the exact cause I'm not certain of. Looking at history over the past couple of centuries it would seem to me that the cause may be related to the world's pirate population:
    ARGH!
    I think there are a lot of closet vegan pirates out there. I often fantasize about boarding someone elses salty sea vessel and making off with their greens

  6. #56
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Judging by the weather we've been having here lately I think it should be called "global wettening". I got caught in a sort of monsoon yesterday and had to go and wring my clothes out in the loos of the local shopping centre, despite having had an umbrella up.

  7. #57
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Can't you delete messages any more?

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote harpy View Post
    Can't you delete messages any more?
    No, it's another side effect of the whole 'climate change' thing!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  9. #59

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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Hi there I am new just arrived from South GErmany,
    I read Global warming and I want to show you this Page !

    http://www.aniboom.com/video/277330/Global-Warming/

    If you can read German http://iveno.de/govegan.pdf

  10. #60
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Am kinda glad i wont be around in 40 years now!

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/G....EMPLATE=DEFAULT


    Obama left with little time to curb global warming

    By SETH BORENSTEIN

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Now it is a ticking time bomb that President-elect Barack Obama can't avoid.

    Since Clinton's inauguration, summer Arctic sea ice has lost the equivalent of Alaska, California and Texas. The 10 hottest years on record have occurred since Clinton's second inauguration. Global warming is accelerating. Time is close to running out, and Obama knows it.

    "The time for delay is over; the time for denial is over," he said on Tuesday after meeting with former Vice President Al Gore, who won a Nobel Peace Prize for his work on global warming. "We all believe what the scientists have been telling us for years now that this is a matter of urgency and national security and it has to be dealt with in a serious way."

    But there are powerful political and economic realities that must be quickly overcome for Obama to succeed. Despite the urgency he expresses, it's not at all clear that he and Congress will agree on an approach during a worldwide financial crisis in time to meet some of the more crucial deadlines.

    Obama is pushing changes in the way Americans use energy, and produce greenhouse gases, as part of what will be a massive economic stimulus. He called it an opportunity "to re-power America."

    After years of inaction on global warming, 2009 might be different. Obama replaces a president who opposed mandatory cuts of greenhouse gas pollution and it appears he will have a willing Congress. Also, next year, diplomats will try to agree on a major new international treaty to curb the gases that promote global warming.

    "We need to start in January making significant changes," Gore said in a recent telephone interview with The Associated Press. "This year coming up is the most important opportunity the world has ever had to make progress in really solving the climate crisis."

    Scientists are increasingly anxious, talking more often and more urgently about exceeding "tipping points."

    "We're out of time," Stanford University biologist Terry Root said. "Things are going extinct."

    U.S. emissions have increased by 20 percent since 1992. China has more than doubled its carbon dioxide pollution in that time. World carbon dioxide emissions have grown faster than scientists' worst-case scenarios. Methane, the next most potent greenhouse gas, suddenly is on the rise again and scientists fear that vast amounts of the trapped gas will escape from thawing Arctic permafrost.

    The amount of carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere has already pushed past what some scientists say is the safe level.

    In the early 1990s, many scientists figured that the world was about a century away from a truly dangerous amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, said Mike MacCracken, who was a top climate scientist in the Clinton administration. But as they studied the greenhouse effect further, scientists realized that harmful changes kick in at far lower levels of carbon dioxide than they thought. Now some scientists, but not all, say the safe carbon dioxide level for Earth is about 10 percent below what it is now.

    Gore called the situation "the equivalent of a five-alarm fire that has to be addressed immediately."

    Scientists fear that what's happening with Arctic ice melt will be amplified so that ominous sea level rise will occur sooner than they expected. They predict Arctic waters could be ice-free in summers, perhaps by 2013, decades earlier than they thought only a few years ago.

    In December 2009, diplomats are charged with forging a new treaty replacing the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, which set limits on greenhouse gases, and which the United States didn't ratify. This time European officials have high expectations for the U.S. to take the lead. But many experts don't see Congress passing a climate bill in time because of pressing economic and war issues.

    "The reality is, it may take more than the first year to get it all done," Senate Energy Committee Chairman Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., said recently.

    Complicating everything is the worldwide financial meltdown. Frank Maisano, a Washington energy specialist and spokesman who represents coal-fired utilities and refineries, sees the poor economy as "a huge factor" that could stop everything. That's because global warming efforts are aimed at restricting coal power, which is cheap. That would likely mean higher utility bills and more damage to ailing economies that depend on coal production, he said.

    Obama is stacking his Cabinet and inner circle with advocates who have pushed for deep mandatory cuts in greenhouse gas pollution and even with government officials who have achieved results at the local level.

    The President-elect has said that one of the first things he will do when he gets to Washington is grant California and other states permission to control car tailpipe emissions, something the Bush administration denied.

    And though congressional action may take time, the incoming Congress will be more inclined to act on global warming. In the House, liberal California Democrat Henry Waxman's unseating of Michigan Rep. John Dingell - a staunch defender of Detroit automakers - as head of the House Energy and Commerce Committee was a sign that global warming will be on the fast track.

    Senate Environment and Public Works Chairman Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., vowed to push two global warming bills starting in January: one to promote energy efficiency as an economic stimulus and the other to create a cap-and-trade system to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from utilities. "The time is now," she wrote in a Dec. 8 letter to Obama.

    Mother Nature, of course, is oblivious to the federal government's machinations. Ironically, 2008 is on pace to be a slightly cooler year in a steadily rising temperature trend line. Experts say it's thanks to a La Nina weather variation. While skeptics are already using it as evidence of some kind of cooling trend, it actually illustrates how fast the world is warming.

    The average global temperature in 2008 is likely to wind up slightly under 57.9 degrees Fahrenheit, about a tenth of a degree cooler than last year. When Clinton was inaugurated, 57.9 easily would have been the warmest year on record. Now, that temperature would qualify as the ninth warmest year.
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  11. #61
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    And another good little article for the 'sceptics' and their use of 'scientific proof' that climate change is not man influenced.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686#


    A survey of all peer reviewed abstracts on the subject "global climate change" published between 1993 and 2003 show that not a single paper rejected the consensus position that global warming is man caused. 75% of the papers agreed with the consensus position while 25% made no comment either way (eg - focused on methods or paleoclimate analysis).
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  12. #62
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    I'm not defending it but here's a 2007 paper which bucks the trend.

    Do those of you outside the US know the TV cable network called The Weather Channel?


    Or is it a US thing only? I know the founder of that TV network, Coleman, a meteorologist himself for over 40 years, I believe, also questions whether global warming is man made or not.

  13. #63
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Quote Mahk View Post
    I'm not defending it but here's a 2007 paper which bucks the trend.

    Do those of you outside the US know the TV cable network called The Weather Channel?


    Or is it a US thing only? I know the founder of that TV network, Coleman, a meteorologist himself for over 40 years, I believe, also questions whether global warming is man made or not.
    Course yer not bucking the trend, his paper was published a good few years after the dates my article covered!
    But Robinson's a Chemist not a meteorologist, i think he's also the founder ( or one of them) of the Oregon paper, which immediately puts his views into disrepute IMO.

    His views on Darwinism are 'interesting' as well, lol!

    As for The Weather channel, yes it's an American thing, and interesting enough. I do love being in the states where you can sit all day and watch nothing but weather on the TV!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  14. #64
    my army bradders's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    we have it a bit, it's an occasional feature on the multiscreen options on the news and there are mobile and internet versions for us. TBH BBC weather in association with the Met Office is better (more reliable in almost every way I can think of as the Weatehr channel was busy telling us it was raining in new york when we were there and there wasn't a cloud in the sky lol)

    there is little doubt though over soot deposits and greenhouse gasses reducing the planets albedo meaning that there is less heat reflected and more retained by the planet
    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  15. #65
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Gogs, Oregon Petition [not that I had ever heard of it but I looked it up after you mentioned it]. Yes, arguably a bit sketchy. Agreed.

    Bradders, we can prove that the Earth's temperature is rising and we can prove that a substantial amount of greenhouse gasses would cause the Earth to heat up, but we can't prove that your use of the tube for transportation is causing global warming.

    It's Bradders everyone! His riding the subway is why the polar bears are becoming extinct! [just kidding buddy] Proving correlation is easy, proving causation is difficult. We know the Earth's temp. varies over time, even before we invented cars/pollution/deforestation etc.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    On a more serious note. Meteorologists have only had really good thermometers, accurate to a fraction of a degree, for only a few hundred years, say. On a time-line of the history of Earth's natural temperature fluctuations that's a tiny little blip.

    And to add insult to injury, in one of the most massive organized distributions of calibrated thermometers that were sent out for local scientist to read and make annual reports, worldwide, there was a major flaw. The thermometers were kept out of the sun in little wooden boxes, like birdhouses I think, and after a decade or two of use, many of the scientists naively decided to repainted them. Some chose dark paint and others chose white paint. Depending on which they used caused a +/- 5 degree inaccuracy due to the different paints' reflectivity/absorption of the sun's heat. Doh! An entire century of data down the drain!

  16. #66
    my army bradders's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    you can't deny though that coal burning releases soot and that this is dark and thus reflects less energy resulting in a heating effect. co2 has a similar effect as does concrete, asphalt, tarmac etc
    all this decreases the planet's albedo and consequently will contribute to a rise in temperatures
    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  17. #67
    my army bradders's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    P.S.
    I'm not sure I like it said that I 'ride the subway' as this gives a lovely mental image of me straddling a train and being hauled around in that fashion
    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  18. #68
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Sorry, I didn't mean any offense, thats how we say it in, er, "American". We don't say "the tube" either but I knew the majority of our thread readers do and since your avatar pic looks to me as if you are a passenger and I see you live in London I thought your use of the tube was a good bet. anyways like I said I was just kidding.

    Here in Boston we ride the T. In New York however they ride the subway. T in Boston is short for "transportation" as in Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority or MBTA.

    So fill me in then, what do you call your use of the tube? If you don't "ride" a train what is called?

  19. #69
    my army bradders's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    the pic is actuall subway and I was messing.
    we 'take' the train or we take the tube, bus, subway etc or we 'get' a train etc, now an again we may 'use' the tram and occasionally something may happen while 'travelling on a train'
    hope that lesson on the ENGLISH language clears things up for our American friends
    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  20. #70
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote bradders View Post
    you can't deny though that coal burning releases soot and that this is dark and thus reflects less energy resulting in a heating effect. co2 has a similar effect as does concrete, asphalt, tarmac etc
    all this decreases the planet's albedo and consequently will contribute to a rise in temperatures
    There's actually a sight contradiction there.
    When i was younger and global warming was but a myth there was actually a thing called 'global dimming' which scientists now acknowledge kept the mean temp in Europe artificially lower. As we are cleaning the air dramatically in the last 25 years that's the reason the temperatures in Europe have gone up so much. Pollution was reflecting a percentage of the suns rays back out into space and helping balance the effect of the greenhouse gasses.
    For anyone thinking that's not plausible just look at what happened in North America post 9/11 during the three-day commercial flight hiatus and the temp fluctuation observed.
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  21. #71
    my army bradders's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    the issue with soot etc is not atmospheri. But rather when settled on surfaces
    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  22. #72
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote bradders View Post
    the issue with soot etc is not atmospheri. But rather when settled on surfaces
    But the 'Global Dimming' phenomena is very atmospheric related!

    Dimming appears to be caused by air pollution. Burning coal, oil and wood, whether in cars, power stations or cooking fires, produces not only invisible carbon dioxide (the principal greenhouse gas responsible for global warming) but also tiny airborne particles of soot, ash, sulphur compounds and other pollutants.

    This visible air pollution reflects sunlight back into space, preventing it reaching the surface.
    But the pollution also changes the optical properties of clouds. Because the particles seed the formation of water droplets, polluted clouds contain a larger number of droplets than unpolluted clouds. Recent research shows that this makes them more reflective than they would otherwise be, again reflecting the Sun's rays back into space.



    On an aside here's a good article on how bad things may be and what may be done, It's a bit long to C & P so i'll link it if anyones interested.

    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/12/16-3
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  23. #73
    my army bradders's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    yes global dimming is atmospheric but the main concern of global dimming is not global temperature decreases (may have mitigated to a small degree) but reduced available light for plant life.
    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  24. #74
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote bradders View Post
    yes global dimming is atmospheric but the main concern of global dimming is not global temperature decreases (may have mitigated to a small degree) but reduced available light for plant life.
    I think yer just arguing for arguments sake now, lol!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  25. #75
    my army bradders's Avatar
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    ha ha, though I do that a LOT, not in this case lol

    reduced light is a real concern, as is soot on on snow, plenty of articles around
    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  26. #76
    *Supermack*
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    I like Global Warming. It is an apt consequence for bad humans.

    I mean there is no solution right?

  27. #77
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    there are many solutions, they just require being actually done
    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  28. #78

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    Default Re: Global Warming

    http://www.aniboom.com/search/Animations/ivensi/1/0

    Hi there sorry if I haven't read the last threads but watch one of
    my movies GLOBAL WARMING the others might be interesting for you
    to it's about enviroment and polutan.

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