View Poll Results: Obama or McCain?

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Thread: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

  1. #101
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote veganlinda View Post
    before this turns into an abortion debate ... there already is one here
    I know, felt like i'd thrown that off topic as soon as i posted!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  2. #102
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote Stu View Post
    But it's not their own body, is it?
    it has been brought to light that this shouldnt be a spot for abortion debate and i agree. but i will just respond to your question, stu.

    i believe, and i stress that it is my opinion..also something that everyone is entitled to.. that it is your own body. when an abortion is done, it is when the fetus is forming...out of all of the membranes and matter (a dr, i am not) that is in our (the women's) bodies. it is not a child yet. some would say it is, but this forming being could never exist on its own. therefore, i personally still consider the subject to be about choosing what to do with our bodies.


    ok..now back to topic....GO-BAMA!!!
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.~ Mahatma Ghandi

  3. #103
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote emzy1985 View Post
    I'm pro-condoms!

    definitely!! and for more than just pregnancy reasons!!
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.~ Mahatma Ghandi

  4. #104
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    So anyone hear about Sarah Palin this morning on the news?
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote emzy1985 View Post
    So anyone hear about Sarah Palin this morning on the news?
    i've actually heard about a couple of things...

    the Troopergate findings...

    and also something that apparently hasn't hit the mainstream media...yet

    wonder if the Alaskan taxpayers mind her ignoring a little something known as "separation of church and state"

    tsk tsk tsk...not very "christian-like", is it?
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.~ Mahatma Ghandi

  6. #106

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    I never use the term 'pro choice' as it grates on my nerves. I am denied the choice of steralization yet many women are alowed to commit murder. What kind of choice is that?
    I just don't think murdering the innocent should be a choice that ANYBODY should be legally permitted to make.
    I don't like the Republican views on warfare or animal rights but for abortion they area going the right way. We need someone to stand up for disabled babies because Obama sure won't do it.
    What makes you think a disabled person will need more health care anyway? I was born disabled but my non disabled brother needed just as much health care as me as he fell out of a tree and broke both his arms and suffered from concussion.

  7. #107

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote veggiemaya View Post
    dreama...fyi, Palin's stance on abortion is that she finds it wrong no matter what. That includes if a woman gets pregnant through rape or incest. Is this what you consider a good idea?? Do we really need another resented child in this world?
    Yes. That IS definately what I want. Who wants an abortion on the top of being raped anyway. Who wants the added guilt of committing murder? I sure as hell wouldn't have. I was made to feel guilty enough as it was. Often parents make these choices for pregnant girls to presurize them into abortion. At least Sarah Palin let her own child keep her baby and support her which is really good as some mum's would have pushed her into having the baby murdered.

    FYI there are just as many unwanted children in countries with liberal abortion laws. Abortion just makes people see kids as disposable comodities. We want more countries like Ireland where people actually value life more.

    Obama is for permitting babies to get killed right until birth even after it's been proven that they can feel pain and are capable of being born prematurely. Do you really aprove of that?
    He even blocked a bill that would allow 'aborted' babies that came out alive to be treated so they are actually left to die slowly for 45 minutes. Do you support that?

  8. #108

    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    Obama is for permitting babies to get killed right until birth even after it's been proven that they can feel pain and are capable of being born prematurely. Do you really aprove of that?
    He even blocked a bill that would allow 'aborted' babies that came out alive to be treated so they are actually left to die slowly for 45 minutes.
    Details? Links?
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  9. #109
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    At least Sarah Palin let her own child keep her baby and support her which is really good as some mum's would have pushed her into having the baby murdered.
    Sarah Palin also "let" (cough:is forcing) her 17 year old daughter marry her boyfriend. And if her teenage daughter really does want to marry her boyfriend I find it equally odd that the Palin family announced it publicly only after Palin was elected by McCrazy.

    Quote dreama View Post
    FYI there are just as many unwanted children in countries with liberal abortion laws. Abortion just makes people see kids as disposable comodities. We want more countries like Ireland where people actually value life more.
    When did Ireland tell you this?

  10. #110
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    Who wants an abortion on the top of being raped anyway.
    Have you ever been in this situation?? I have. Giving birth at 14 would have been much more tramatic. I wasn't traumatized at all. Nothing over my head. But thanks for speaking for me and all women.

  11. #111

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Can someone please answer me this?
    What is the point of having a social government if vunerable people such as the unborn, the elderly, disabled people and animals are in danger of being killed one way or another as they are if Obama gets in because he also plans to legalise Euthanasia and his animal rights proposals are vertually non existant so it will be the same for animals whoever gets in.

    I thought the benifits of a socialist system was to protect people who couldn't speak out for themselves. Neither women or their rights really count as they can speak out for themselves.

    But if we don't have the benifits of the voiceless being protected. Only one vested interest group pitted against another, who cares who cares if the republicans get in. At least they will be able to do something about abortion. The other issues make little differance either way. In fact the number of animals in research have gone up under our labour government. So more animals are tortured in laboritoires then they were under the concervative government. Obama seems the same sort of slimy polition as our Tony Blair who made all those fancy promises. Read between the lines. If a guy don't care about human rights (only vested interest groups such as the pro abortion lot) then what chance do the animals have?

  12. #112
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    *blink blink*

  13. #113

    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    who cares who cares if the republicans get in. At least they will be able to do something about abortion
    More traumatised victims of rape having to give birth to a baby that was conceived from a violent act, more babies born with extremely severe disabilities, more women going to back street abortionists and dying as a result.

    I'm not in favour of using abortion as a form of contraception but I'll support anyone who wants to have an abortion if they've been raped, if they're underage or if the baby is so severely disabled that it will have a poor quality of life. Grown humans have rights as well as the unborn.

    Anyway, back to the US presidential election.

    The running mate of US Republican presidential candidate John McCain has been found guilty of an abuse of power, according to a state legislature probe.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/ame...08/7662820.stm

  14. #114
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    honestly..I realize that there is no use trying to get through to someone like dreama. This is someone who believes that an unborn FETUS is equivalent to a disabled PERSON. I can't!
    Let dreama go hang with the Palin's in their convenient psychobubble.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.~ Mahatma Ghandi

  15. #115

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    I've loads of links: On the issues: http://www.vegansoapbox.com/obama-
    “Obama’s wife has been the spokesperson for vivisecting Univ of Chicago”
    (source)
    “In April 2007 he said: ‘I don’t hunt myself, but I respect hunters and sportsmen.’”
    (source)
    biden-mccain-palin-on-animal-issues/
    http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/200...3/18476793.php


    I'm posting these as they support my claim that the Republicans AND Democrates BOTH have apauling animal rights records. So for all you people who think that Obama is so wonderful would you please at least read.



    On human rights:
    On Obama's stand against babies: http://nobamanews.blogspot.com/2008/...timony_05.html

    http://nobamanews.blogspot.com/search/label/Obama
    "I, having lived through rape, and also having raised a child 'conceived in rape,' feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest. I feel that we're being used by proabortionists to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side." (Kathleen DeZeeuw http://www.afterabortion.org/rape.html)

  16. #116

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Also on Obama's stand Euthanasia: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1977276/posts

    I feel really confused and upset that people should flame me about this. I mean I can understan steak eating Pro abortion people flaming me as they don't give a **** about anybody's life but people who claim to care about animal rights saying it's ok to murder human babies (who are animals too). Sorry but I just don't get it.

    What is so wrong with there being more disabled people. It's really upsetting me to read comments like this as I'm disabled and I feel very strongly that that there should be more of us around. We shouldn't be aborted out of existance just because we are 'inconvenient'. Such comments make me feel very unwelcome here as a disabled person. Perhaps you agree with Peter Singer that we should all be killed. It makes me feel terribly excluded. Since I don't see anything wrong with being disabled. I'm glad to be alive.

    That is why Sarah Palin saying all abortion is wrong and Her disabled baby is a blessing. Yes it does bother me that she also promotes shooting animals (as does Obamas) but it's really great when a person can stand up for the rights of those that cannot speak up for themselves. As vegan's why are we so much against that. WHY back meat eating pro abortion women and not back the vunerable and voiceless?

    If only more people would think like her (without her views on polar bears and wolves that is).

    Don't vote if you don't like Macain. I don't like him either, but please don't vote for someone who cares so little for the most vunerable in society. I'd only vote Macain in an effort to block Obama from getting in because he's the very worse type of politician going. He's nothing but a black version of Tony Blair. All weaving round issues. Not giving direct answers and not doing anything.
    By the way Ireland is a country. It didn't tell me anything. I went for a visit in Ireland and I found it a very nice place to be. People are more friendly then they are in England. More accepting of people that are differant.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Obama is for economic and environmental regulation so that big companies don't run the economy and ruin the planet. McCain is for a free market, which is what caused the economic bubble, which just burst because of a faulty system, which is why the economy is so shitty right now. He also doesn't care about environmental regulations.

    Obama is for social education and healthcare. This ensures the poor to all forms of education for free, even college, and to proper medical care. McCain want to keep it private and unregulated, allowing healthcare costs to continue to rise.

    Obama is for more democracy in international politics, while McCain is for fighting for our side alone.

    There are so many more issues than what you've mentioned so far. In reality, the president has very little to do with abortion laws and animal rights.

  18. #118
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    By the way Ireland is a country. It didn't tell me anything. I went for a visit in Ireland and I found it a very nice place to be. People are more friendly then they are in England. More accepting of people that are differant.
    I was kidding. I said it to make you think that maybe your personal perception of Ireland shouldn't be generalized and then used to compare to the rest of the world.

    Also, I don't think anyone is knocking you for being disabled. No one here (or at least I don't) thinks the disabled are any less of a human being than someone without disabilities. You mentioned that Obama isn't clear when he talks and weaves around issues (which I respectfully disagree), but have you ever heard Palin talk? It sounds like she's forgotten her lines every time she speaks; have you heard her reasoning for why she has diplomatic experience??! Answer: Because Alaska is close to Russia! Response:...WHAT?

  19. #119

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    should people be encouraged to abort a child with a "disability": no

    should people be encouraged to abort if they are underaged: no

    should people abort because of the gender of the foetus: no

    should people be shamed or coerced into aborting against their will: no



    should people be forced into giving up a child they may want (conceived of a violent act or not): No

    should people be allowed to safely rid themselves of the remnents of that violent episode, in order to potentially secure a happier future for themselves and those around them? Yes.


    I hate human rights being infringed upon, hence why, Dreama, I don't think your arguments regarding coercion or selective abortions stand up against the pro-choice movement. We are against that (or, at least, I know I am!). A person should never have to do something against their will.

  20. #120

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote scarlet begonias View Post
    It sounds like she's forgotten her lines every time she speaks; have you heard her reasoning for why she has diplomatic experience??! Answer: Because Alaska is close to Russia! Response:...WHAT?
    And also:

    Interviewer - specific example's in [McCain's] 26-year history of pushing for more regulation?

    Palin - I’ll try to find you some and I’ll bring them to ya, Katie.



    Gun-toting nutjob.

  21. #121
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    Don't vote if you don't like Macain. I don't like him either...
    um, you live in the UK, right? you can subscribe and contribute to this thread mainly as a hypothetical. try having to live with the repercussions of a right wing nutcase being elected, making dangerous decisions on the entire country's behalf..for yet another 4 or possibly 8 years. pardon me but, how dare you.


    Quote dreama View Post
    What is so wrong with there being more disabled people
    absolutely nothing! i do not by any means think that someone should have an abortion just because they may know the child will be born disabled. my only point is that it should be the option of the woman who is pregnant whether or not she should have an abortion.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.~ Mahatma Ghandi

  22. #122
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote bryzee86 View Post
    should people be encouraged to abort a child with a "disability": no

    should people be encouraged to abort if they are underaged: no

    should people abort because of the gender of the foetus: no

    should people be shamed or coerced into aborting against their will: no



    should people be forced into giving up a child they may want (conceived of a violent act or not): No

    should people be allowed to safely rid themselves of the remnents of that violent episode, in order to potentially secure a happier future for themselves and those around them? Yes.


    I hate human rights being infringed upon, hence why, Dreama, I don't think your arguments regarding coercion or selective abortions stand up against the pro-choice movement. We are against that (or, at least, I know I am!). A person should never have to do something against their will.
    yes! i agree, 110%
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.~ Mahatma Ghandi

  23. #123
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Thanks Bryzee. I had typed up a really long post to that effect, but accidentally hit a button and lost it.

    And well said VeggieMaya. Frankly, I'm kind of sick of people who don't live here knowing exactly what's best for this country never having lived here. (No offense to anyone, of course you should be interested and knowledgeable in other political systems, and have opinions. There are some, however, who think their opinion is better than ours.)

    I mean, people who haven't lived here don't know first hand what the healthcare system is like, and they've never claimed benefits like food stamps and unemployment, to know how much the system is fucked here. And don't get me STARTED on the new medicare. People here don't even know how to deal with it.

  24. #124

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote bryzee86 View Post
    should people be encouraged to abort a child with a "disability": no

    should people be encouraged to abort if they are underaged: no

    should people abort because of the gender of the foetus: no

    should people be shamed or coerced into aborting against their will: no



    should people be forced into giving up a child they may want (conceived of a violent act or not): No

    should people be allowed to safely rid themselves of the remnents of that violent episode, in order to potentially secure a happier future for themselves and those around them? Yes.


    I hate human rights being infringed upon, hence why, Dreama, I don't think your arguments regarding coercion or selective abortions stand up against the pro-choice movement. We are against that (or, at least, I know I am!). A person should never have to do something against their will.
    You may not be personally infavor of these things but while abortion is still legal they will always happen. Some women are using abortion as a birth control method and have many abortions.

    There is still the fact that a fetus experiences pain at 10 weeks/26 weeks depending on the source. You will probably say that the 10 week is inaccurate because it's from an anti abortion site but the 26 week estimation comes from Wilkopedia and that is neutrol. I can provide the link for that. But the fact is that Obama means to abort fetuses later then 26 weeks. Later when it's been medically established that the fetus actually feels pain so at that age the fetus is so advanced that really it's closer to being a premie baby then even a fetus and that's a time when Obama thinks it's ok to abort. As you know I'm against ALL abortions but I feel more strongly against late abortions.

    Also their are lots of stories about women being perswaded to abort against their wishes. Making abortion easier makes it easier for parents/partners to push these women into unwanted abortions. If abortion was illigal that would stop which is why I'm for it.

    Pro abortion people make abortion sound like a simple operation but it's not. It's humiliating, it's degrading. Then afterwards you have the guilt of having taken a life.

    At least with warfare the soldiers have to be 18 before they kill. They will push young girls of any age into aborting so a child at a sensitive age could have this really horrible experience for the rest of her life. When she didn't want to abort in the first place.

    Abortion harms women and kills the baby who can't even speak for itself. And yes I will call it a baby. If I ever saw a carrot with a head, two arms and two legs that moved away from my touch as fetuses do then I don't think I would eat it.

  25. #125

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote snivelingchild View Post
    There are so many more issues than what you've mentioned so far. In reality, the president has very little to do with abortion laws and animal rights.
    Well as vegans we animal rights should bother us. Actually Sarah Palin's animal record bothers me even though I'm 100 behind her on the issue of abortion. But then aren't you bothered about Obama's wife suporting vivisection and being ok about hunting?

    Environmental issues are sort of cliche at the moment. He makes promises but I bet he won't stick to them. If he really cared about the environment he would encourage people to go vegan but since he's clearly not vegan well...

    As far as National health care goes our NHS is nothing to write home about. It takes months to be seen by a doctor. Some doctor's will then be ever so unhelpful and refuse to treat patients who end up having to go private anyway. So what's the point of a free health service if it's so bad nobody wants to use it?

    I wouldn't mind paying for health care if it meant an improvement in the services I got.

  26. #126
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    Making abortion easier makes it easier for parents/partners to push these women into unwanted abortions. If abortion was illigal that would stop which is why I'm for it.
    Bullcrap. At least not where I am. I've heard so many stories of people pushing girls into UNSAFE STREET ABORTIONS, even though clinic ones ARE legal. That will never change until every person has the balls to think and act for themselves.

    Furthermore, that besides the point, since women decide on having abortions FOR THEMSELVES. Yeah, not all of them, but the majority. AND (though we can never know for sure) most polls show that more women than not feel relieved rather than ashamed. For the women who've had negative experiences, I am truly sorry. Maybe they didn't make the right choice for them. However, everyone is different and some women are glad they had the option. I am. You know what WAS awful? Having to wait in the room for hours for a doctor, since the original doctor refused to give me the meds.

    Apparently, he thought he should decide for me.

    Point: ALL WOMEN AND EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT. STOP LUMPING THEM ALL INTO ONE GROUP. I, for one, don't like being spoken for.

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Of course I haven't heard Sarah Palin talk. I'm profoundly deaf. I read about both of them online. They probably both lie. All polititions do, but abortion is a big issue for me because of selective abortion for the disaled. In England women ARE incouraged to abort disabled fetuses.

    I'd also like to know why Sarah Palin's animal right's views regarding polar bears and Wolves get such a reaction wheras nobody even seems bothered about the fact that Obama's wife supports vivisection. It was only a line that I'd missed myself on the first read and only noticed it when looking for extra links. Doesnt this bother anybody else but me?

    Also don't pro abortion people have any limits at all? I mean why is it ok to let an aborted baby die if the baby has come out of the womb alive. Some of these women who were 'aborted' are alive today. Why is Obama's stand on it ok?

  28. #128
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    Well as vegans we animal rights should bother us. Actually Sarah Palin's animal record bothers me even though I'm 100 behind her on the issue of abortion. But then aren't you bothered about Obama's wife suporting vivisection and being ok about hunting?
    This was precisely the point of my last post.

    Quote dreama View Post
    Environmental issues are sort of cliche at the moment. He makes promises but I bet he won't stick to them. If he really cared about the environment he would encourage people to go vegan but since he's clearly not vegan well...
    Firstly, you can eat meat and be completely environmentally friendly, if you do it right. That's not why we're vegan. I just happen to be vegan and environmentalist. Secondly, democrats have a long record of enforcing pollution laws, whereas republicans do not. Please take a look at Obama's complete voting record for actual evidence of what he does, not what he promises. That's a better way of judging rather than speculation.

    Quote dreama View Post
    As far as National health care goes our NHS is nothing to write home about. It takes months to be seen by a doctor. Some doctor's will then be ever so unhelpful and refuse to treat patients who end up having to go private anyway. So what's the point of a free health service if it's so bad nobody wants to use it?

    I wouldn't mind paying for health care if it meant an improvement in the services I got.
    It takes months to be seen by a doctor HERE. Free health care being available is better than having no access to it at all. Do you really not see how some people cannot afford it AT ALL? Have you never been poor? At least over there you have a choice. We do not. If I get sick, right now, I am screwed. Bottom line. No choice. No options. Nothing.

    Luckily I am usually healthy. My sister and her husband, however, are not so lucky. She has had liver trouble and seizures. He has hepatitis, and can get no treatment for it at all. He has to deal with the pain every single day. No choice.

    The current republicans have voted to reduce those who benefit from the current LACHIP program here, which gives limited healthcare to low-income children only, not the whole family. People around here rely on that. Otherwise, they couldn't afford to take care of their children.

  29. #129

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Well neither do that. In case you don't know I'm also female. I don't like being spoken for either. Especially when abortion is used as a justification for rape. It feels like being raped twice. I've read a discription of it and It sounds really degrading to have that done to you. I can't understand any woman wanting to promote it.

    Besides there is more then the woman involved. There is the woman. There is the child. There is the father who might be happy to take care of the child but his girlfriend aborts the baby because she can't be bothered even though he is happy to care for the baby himself.

    But the unborn baby cannot speak for themselves. Same as animals cannot speak for themselves so we have to speak for them.

    Which is why I think abortion should be made totally illigal and women should use other methods of birth control (including steralization) instead.

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote snivelingchild View Post



    It takes months to be seen by a doctor HERE. Free health care being available is better than having no access to it at all. Do you really not see how some people cannot afford it AT ALL? Have you never been poor? At least over there you have a choice. We do not. If I get sick, right now, I am screwed. Bottom line. No choice. No options. Nothing.

    Luckily I am usually healthy. My sister and her husband, however, are not so lucky. She has had liver trouble and seizures. He has hepatitis, and can get no treatment for it at all. He has to deal with the pain every single day. No choice.

    The current republicans have voted to reduce those who benefit from the current LACHIP program here, which gives limited healthcare to low-income children only, not the whole family. People around here rely on that. Otherwise, they couldn't afford to take care of their children.
    I won't pretend to know about health service in USA. I would be willing to spend money on health services if I could get better services or even any services. I'm getting lots of headaches at present. Do I take them to the doctor? Not bloody likely. It's free but the last time I was seen by a doctor the doctor refused to look at my eyes because my eyelids kept closing and I am severely sensitive to light. Nobody has got to the bottom of this problem and I've had it for over a year and bad migranes are increasing and means I spend more time inactive then I would really like yet their is really nothing I can do about it.

    Being deafblind is no big deal, but when you feel like someone is repeatatively bashing you about the head with a heavy frying pan it gets in the way. Plus being tired and needing to sleep so much. Almost falling asleep in the bath are health problems I would have liked addressing but it's getting to the stage that I may need to go private since whenever I've used NHS I've been treeated like a complete waste of space.

  31. #131
    snivelingchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    Of course I haven't heard Sarah Palin talk. I'm profoundly deaf. I read about both of them online. They probably both lie. All polititions do, but abortion is a big issue for me because of selective abortion for the disaled. In England women ARE incouraged to abort disabled fetuses.
    That's really sad, but I think we all agree here on that.

    Quote dreama View Post
    I'd also like to know why Sarah Palin's animal right's views regarding polar bears and Wolves get such a reaction wheras nobody even seems bothered about the fact that Obama's wife supports vivisection. It was only a line that I'd missed myself on the first read and only noticed it when looking for extra links. Doesnt this bother anybody else but me?
    It bothers us all that neither are them support animal rights. They are both in the wrong there, which is why I focus on other issues. However, believing in vivisection here is extremely mainstream. Supporting the non-protection of polar bears is not. That's society for you. Again, no one is disagreeing with you here.


    Quote dreama View Post
    Also don't pro abortion people have any limits at all? I mean why is it ok to let an aborted baby die if the baby has come out of the womb alive. Some of these women who were 'aborted' are alive today. Why is Obama's stand on it ok?
    The New York Times reported in a story on August 7, 2008 that Obama "said he had opposed the bill because it was poorly drafted and would have threatened the Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade that established abortion as a constitutional right. He said he would have voted for a similar bill that passed the United States Senate because it did not have the same constitutional flaw as the Illinois bill."
    That's from your link. That sounds reasonable to me. It explains that he was not actually opposed to what you are saying. However, you will probably just say he is a politician, and is lying. However, I have the choice to pick which politician is less crooked. I choose Obama.

  32. #132
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    Being deafblind is no big deal, but when you feel like someone is repeatatively bashing you about the head with a heavy frying pan it gets in the way. Plus being tired and needing to sleep so much. Almost falling asleep in the bath are health problems I would have liked addressing but it's getting to the stage that I may need to go private since whenever I've used NHS I've been treeated like a complete waste of space.
    I'm very sorry about your experience with this. Unfortunately, this is exactly how patients are treated here in the private sector as well. There is just not a great standard of care overall. I'm not saying private health care over there might not be better for YOU, but over here, it's riddled with all the same problems people say national healthcare has. The only difference is who has access to it.

  33. #133
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Dreama, you are dreaming! Incidentally you say Peter Singer states that the disabled should all be killed. He has never said that, and Obama has never said many of the statements you infer to him. Sorry you are disabled, but does that give you the right to insist on a pregnant woman, unable to care for a disabled child, to be refused a termination? That is surely her business, not yours. Have you thought of taking up a hobby, like spelling for example? ok, I know I'll get dissed for that, but you are a mature Englishwoman, don't you care about our beautiful language?
    Eve

  34. #134

    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    But then aren't you bothered about Obama's wife suporting vivisection ?
    She doesn't. Even your hopelessly biased link doesn't say that. Have YOU read it?
    All those links were from pages written by people whose writing has no censure system for inaccuracy and have an agenda.
    Link to a national newspaper and it'll be taken more seriously.
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  35. #135
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Can you fucking talk about abortion somewhere else please?????

    As for world leaders.....they are all a bunch of NWO(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wor...spiracy_theory and yes I don't care if you believe it or not and no I dont wanna talk about it or abortion for that matter.) twats who only care about money. Ofcourse I would rather Obama than McCain, however both are rich(amongst other negative things). Rich controlling the poor is not my kind of society....unfortunately it is life!!!!!
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  36. #136
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote dreama View Post
    I wouldn't mind paying for health care if it meant an improvement in the services I got.
    try living here and finding out what it costs to HAVE to pay for healthcare, and you may not say that

    Quote dreama View Post
    Pro abortion people make abortion sound like a simple operation but it's not.
    have you ever had one? because if not then you really wouldn't know what its like firsthand.
    and it really is wrong to say that pro-choice is pro-abortion. i have a cousin who is expecting her first child in a couple of weeks and i have never been more excited. its going to be a beautiful thing..but it was also her choice, and i am supportive of any decision based on that.


    Quote dreama View Post
    If I ever saw a carrot with a head, two arms and two legs that moved away from my touch as fetuses do then I don't think I would eat it.
    um....wow
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.~ Mahatma Ghandi

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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    Quote eve View Post
    Have you thought of taking up a hobby, like spelling for example??
    hahaha! oh my goodness.. i really don't mean any disrespect toward Dreama by laughing at that comment...but eve, that just made me lol right at my desk in work!
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.~ Mahatma Ghandi

  38. #138
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

    this thread got really ugly really fast.

    its a freaking forum people! everyone has the right to their own opinions, why can't we respect that?
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

  39. #139
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    Default Re: If the World Could Vote - Obama/McCain

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