Calorie Restriction/CRON

[mixandmatch]

Okies, here's a link before I say anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRON-diet

So, what this "diet" is, is that you eat a pretty low amount of calories for the rest of your life, get in all your nutrition, and it's supposed to make you live longer. I can't find many unbiased sources, so what're your opinions? Total bull, or something amazing?

[Roxy]

Oh crikey....wait till Mahk finds this thread!

[green woman]

I saw a programme some time ago about the most long-lived people on the planet, which included the Okinawans, and they eat a nutritionally high but calorie low diet so there may be something to the theory. As well as good and sustaining nutrition, bad and cell damaging free radicals are present in food, so fewer free radicals enter the body when people don't eat much so the ageing process is slowed down, or something like that. Someone will explain it better I'm sure.

[BlackCats]

I have read quite a few times in natural health books that just slightly under-eating is supposed to be healthier and anti-aging (and no I don't have a source!) I read about rat studies as well not just with humans.

It's not something that I would be capable of putting into practice ever.

[beanstew]

When I saw the thread title the first thing I thought of was the cron process scheduler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cron) in Unix and thought it must be some kind of heavily scheduled diet. I should probably get out more or something.

[kriz]

I have read quite a few times in natural health books that just slightly under-eating is supposed to be healthier and anti-aging (and no I don't have a source!) I read about rat studies as well not just with humans.

It's not something that I would be capable of putting into practice ever.

This makes a lot of sense whatever it's scientifically proven or not. I feel great (no bloat) whenever I cut calories and eat smaller portions... I do feel much more energetic, but slightly hungry all the time. Then again that might not be a bad thing. The key is of course not to eat so little that one get deficiencies and anorexia. That won't make anyone feel good.

[harpy]

There's more about this on another Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction

I've read elsewhere that the evidence is a bit patchy and mostly comes from experiments on animals (rats and some kind of worm, IIRC), so it may or may not apply to humans. (ETA I see from that same article that the worm was a nematode, caenorhabditis elegans.)

The old joke about this idea is that you don't live longer, it just seems longer.

[Mahk]

Oh crikey....wait till Mahk finds this thread!

Found it!

I'm not really sure what your pre-conceived notion of me is. Is it that I automatically reject any new ideas or philosophies that disagree with, challenge, or oppose current scientific wisdom or paradigms? Yes? No?

I'm no expert in the field this thread is addressing, but if there are legitimate, peer reviewed, controlled studies that used the scientific method [a very specific methodology], then I'd tend to believe their results at least with that species they investigated.

This makes a lot of sense whatever it's scientifically proven or not. I feel great (no bloat) whenever I cut calories and eat smaller portions...

"Always trust your gut (reaction)"

I'm quoting the common saying. This is not my world view at all, in fact it is the complete opposite. Don't take this as an attack, I'm just commenting that we have different approaches to life. Neither of us is right or wrong, we are just different.

[Sarah_]

Oh bah, if ever I could restrain myself to not OVEReating we'll be somewhere!

[firstandthen]

The old joke about this idea is that you don't live longer, it just seems longer.

Haha, I think you've hit the nail on the head there!

[Roxy]

Found it!

I'm not really sure what your pre-conceived notion of me is. Is it that I automatically reject any new ideas or philosophies that disagree with, challenge, or oppose current scientific wisdom or paradigms? Yes? No?

I wouldn't have a clue. I do notice however that you like to put forward your opinion in a rather forthright way when it comes to topics of diets or fasting.

Good for you though. You shouldn't have to censor yourself if you feel that what you have to say is important.

[Healthy]

I believe everyone is different and you just have to find what works for you.

Personally, less calories makes me look older (drawn face).

When I'm at my perfect weight or a pound or two above, my face looks healthier and younger and everyone starts to tell me how great I look.

Either way, I feel great, so I am not worried ... I don't know, I think food is meant to be enjoyed and the healthier you eat, the more calories you can take in without bloat and weight gain. When I was a raw foodist I was eating over 4000 calories per day and still losing weight. I had everything checked out too, thyroid, blood work ... everything was excellent.

One time I was at a banquet and, of course, there wasn't much for a health conscious person, so I loaded up my plate with fruit -- tons of it. A sweet old lady commented, "So that's how she keeps her figure!"

[harpy]

I don't think anyone's claimed that calorie restriction improves one's looks (or those of the rats/worms ) - it may just make you live longer. Allegedly.

The other thing to remember is that the claim is only of increased life expectancy, with no guarantees of anything for the individual. One of the main proponents of calorie restriction died at 79 - not young but not spectacularly old either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Walford

[Healthy]

I think 79 is pretty darn young. If I was told I'd be dead at 79, I'd be very disappointed. I know a lot of people older than that who have horrible eating habits and they can run circles around teenagers.

My thing is, if I see someone that is amazing for their age, I ask what their secret is. This man I know is 95 and looks about 70. Has all his marbles, glowing eyes, beautiful skin, all his teeth, doesn't walk hunched over, ... his secret? He balances acid/alkaline. Also swears by taking two tablespoons of lechithin each day.

[Mahk]

Thanks for the clarification Roxy.

The way I see it, if people advocate dangerous lifestyles (such as not consuming any protein for 10-45 days, AKA "the lemonade fast") as "beneficial" yet in actuality it may very well harm my friends, I feel compelled to combat them. I think it may have been Risker (?) who mentioned it would be analogous to a pro-ana thread (advocating anorexia as a lifestyle). I agree with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said before I know very little about this thread's topic but I suspect the situation may be analogous to alcohol consumption; people who drink a very specific amount per day statistically live longer than teetotalers, but the correct amount is very specific:

teetotalers : 75 yrs ALS (Average Life Span)
1 drink/day : 80 yrs ALS
1.5 drinks/day : 85 yrs ALS [optimal]
1.75 drinks/day: 80 yrs ALS
2 drinks/day : 72 yrs ALS
2.5 drinks/day : 70 yrs ALS
3 drinks/day : 65 yrs ALS
4 drinks/day : 60 yrs ALS

[numbers entirely fabricated by me for illustrative purposes only]

That is, maybe people who consume 87% of the "normal calorie intake" live longer but people who consume only 85% live shorter lives. IMO, thinking "the fewer the better" is not good, just like "the more drinks I consume per day, the better" is bad.

We need more data, which may take decades, not just years, and like it or not, some of it will undoubtedly be animal research. [I didn't say I'm advocating that, mind you.]

[harpy]

I think 79 is pretty darn young. If I was told I'd be dead at 79, I'd be very disappointed.

Well, nothing will guarantee longevity, will it? That's why it seems a good idea to strike a balance between prudence and pleasure. Think how annoyed one would be if one starved oneself for the next 5 years and then got run over by a bus

[xrodolfox]

I'm with Makh on this.

However, if it doesn't hurt you, and you are so inclined, I see no reason not to try it. (As long as you are sure it isn't hurting you). I'd be adverse to recommending this to everyone if it worked on you until you collect some concrete evidence.

[Mahk]

I think 79 is pretty darn young.

Interestingly 79.34 is the average for white females living in NJ. Sorry I don't have the breakdown for vegan/non-vegans. [1989-91 data is probably lower than current rates, but it was the first thing I found]

[Healthy]

Well, nothing will guarantee longevity, will it? That's why it seems a good idea to strike a balance between prudence and pleasure. Think how annoyed one would be if one starved oneself for the next 5 years and then got run over by a bus

Yeah, that's why I said earlier that food is meant to be enjoyed.

[Healthy]

Interestingly 79.34 is the average for white females living in NJ. Sorry I don't have the breakdown for vegan/non-vegans. [1989-91 data is probably lower than current rates, but it was the first thing I found]

Statistics don't scare me. I'm probably a lot happier and less stressed than those women ... in fact, I know I am

[jonnie falafel]

Sorry to bring this up guys, but animal experimentation does demonstrate that caloric restriction increases longevity. However, since I've just got the one life I want to enjoy it - 70 good years rather than 90 miserable!

[Enchantress]

Sorry to bring this up guys, but animal experimentation does demonstrate that caloric restriction increases longevity

... and we all know experiments done on animals invariably have the same outcome as the same experiments done on humans.

[herbwormwood]

Total B***, makes money from gullible people or those promoting related products, and likely to appeal to those with eating disorders.
We already know what the healthiest diet is,...a nutritionally balanced vegan one.

[fresquinho]

I find these explanations quite plausible. I personally feel better and have more energy when I undereat (although living till 90 doesn't interest me a bit), so why immediately dismiss it? The principle is simple: eating "tires" your body, so eating less (while still maintaing full imports of vitamins, minerals and mainting a balanced diet - e.g. Okinawans eat a lot of grains, vegetables and soy and seldom eat meat, eggs or dairy) should mean less stress for your body, hence increased longevity. Plausible? Definitely. True? No-one knows.

[herbwormwood]

Eating doesn't tire our bodies.
This is completely inaccurate.
This argument likely to appeal to vulnerable people with pre-existing eating disorders.
When we eat, our body sends some of our blood supply to areas around our digestive tract in order to take nutrients from the food passing through it, which can sometimes result in a temporary feeling of sleepyness.
The only situation where eating is not healthy is bingeing or overeating of unhealhy food, but this isn't part of a balanced vegan diet anyway.

[jonnie falafel]

Eating doesn't tire our bodies.
This is completely inaccurate.
This argument likely to appeal to vulneerable people with pre-existing eating disorders.
When we eat, our body sends some of our blood supply to areas around our digestive tract in order to take nutrients from the food passing through it, which can sometimes result in a temporary feeling of sleepyness.
The only situation where eating is not healthy is bingeing or overeating of unhealhy food, but this isn't part of a balanced vegan diet anyway.

Well said herbwormwood! Is it any wonder with such views that folks think veganism is another form of orthorexia.

[patientia]

I thought the same, that calorie restriction lowers the quality of life, but I decided to learn about it anyway and than decide if it's right for me.

I read a few blogs of people who practice CRON and it seems they feel better and are healthier than before CRON. Their cholesterol, glucose and body temperature are lower.

Only one of these people is vegan:
http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/category/health/

I would like to be able to practice CRON, but so far I haven't succeeded. I did improve my nutrition, however, and that's the first step.

I use CRON-o-Meter, free open source cross-platform software for tracking nutrient intake:
http://spaz.ca/cronometer/

If you're going to use it, adjust recommendations before, because initially they are for bodybuilders or people who want to get fat. Don't worry about some nutrients (fluoride), they're underrepresented.

It seems that methionine (an essential amino acid) restriction extends lifespan (and healthspan) in the same way calorie restriction does, and vegans get less methionine than non-vegans:
http://ouroboros.wordpress.com/2008/...le-path-to-cr/
http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2...or-mammals.php

[patientia]

Two more vegan calorie restriction blogs:
http://www.zenpawn.com/vegblog/
http://www.jeffnovick.com/JeffNovick/Blog/Blog.html