B12 is synthesized by single-celled microbes

[Korn]

From http://www.vegsource.com/klaper/optimum.htm :

Vitamin B-12 is synthesized by single-celled microbes (bacteria) that live in the soils of the earth. And long ago when the earth and soils were healthy, before we put all sorts of chemicals on them, the surface of the earth was covered with vitamin B-12. There used to be lots of vitamin B-12 in our lives. Even if you were a pure vegetarian 300 years ago, you could open up the back door of your cottage and outside would be a beautiful organic garden. Every carrot you pulled out of the ground would have little particles of vitamin B-12 sticking to it. When it came time to get your water, you_d take a bucket of water out of the stream, and there too you would find vitamin B-12. There would be B-12 under your finger nails from working in the garden. There would be plenty of B-12 in your life, and since you needed so little of it, concerns about deficiency would not be an issue.

We_ve become very isolated from the earth and we_ve lost our natural sources of B-12. Cows have B-12 in their muscles because they_re eating grass all day and their pulling up clumps of dirt that have B-12 producing organisms clinging to the root of the grass. They eat the B-12 producing organisms who produce the B-12, which gets absorbed into their bloodstream, goes out into the muscles, and is deposited into their muscles and livers. But that is bacterial B-12 in the cow_s muscle. The cow did not make it, nor did the pig or chicken.

Those same organisms are now cultured in big vats, producing their B-12 that is eventually separated out. It is then added to breakfast cereals, soy milks soy burgers, nutritional yeast, and vitamin tablets. It_s easy to get vitamin B-12 without consuming animal products and I suggest if you really want to lighten up your diet, find a non-animal source of B-12.



We are evolving as a species. What our caveman ancestors ate is of little import to us now. The question is what is the best diet for modern human beings? Medical literature is clearly showing that the less animal fat and animal protein you put in your system, the healthier you are going to be.

[PinkFluffyCloud]

Is grass safe for humans to eat - and if so, does washing it affect the B12 content, I wonder?

[Seaside]

I can't remember which book I read this in, but there was a discussion about Vitamin B12 coming from soil microbes. This author's idea was that young chidren playing in soil and putting their fingers in their mouths would receive an "innoculation" of microorganisms, which would establish themselves inside the intestines and produce Vitamin B12, as long as they received the proper raw materials (probably cobalt rich foods), making regular ingestion of soil unecessary. What I am wondering is whether anyone has ever researched the possibility of these microbes being absent in most modern people because of regular antibiotic use, and not just the diminished populations in the soils of the world. Almost everyone today has probably had a course of antibiotics at least once in their lives, and though we are now told to replenish the beneficial bacteria that are killed along with the dangerous ones, no one suggests that we ingest soil microbes, only the lactobacilli.

[kriz]

Interesting stuff, Seaside. I always thought it was a good idea to let kids get real dirty playing in the mud, and stuffing them with antibiotics a bad idea.

[Korn]

I can't remember which book I read this in, but there was a discussion about Vitamin B12 coming from soil microbes. This author's idea was that young chidren playing in soil and putting their fingers in their mouths would receive an "innoculation" of microorganisms, which would establish themselves inside the intestines and produce Vitamin B12, as long as they received the proper raw materials (probably cobalt rich foods), making regular ingestion of soil unecessary.

Yes, I've seen that as well, and most likely people in 'primitive' cultures that go barefoot and work directly with the soil and spend a lot of time in nature, will get B12 from their contact with soil and plant surfaces. Vitamins and minerals, like cobalt (the core of cobalamin/B12) can be absorbed through the skin and through the nose as well, and it id said that there's even small amounts of B12 on dust and in the air... if this is correct, I assume that there's more B12 in dust from organic soil than and the small particles of soil that are being circulating in the air around people who are in directly touch with the soil than in the dust circulating around my Mac.

What I am wondering is whether anyone has ever researched the possibility of these microbes being absent in most modern people because of regular antibiotic use, and not just the diminished populations in the soils of the world. Almost everyone today has probably had a course of antibiotics at least once in their lives, and though we are now told to replenish the beneficial bacteria that are killed along with the dangerous ones, no one suggests that we ingest soil microbes, only the lactobacilli.

We have some posts about antibiotics and B12 here:

http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...96&postcount=4
...and here:
http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113

Biotic means 'life'. B12 is essential for DNA synthesis. Anti-biotics actually means anti-life. I think having used antibiotics, is a main reason that people at some point in life have their B12 levels dramatically lowered, and unless they over-consume B12 afterwards, maybe they will remain low in B12.

Don't forget that most of os either drink chlorinated water, and/or eat plants that have been exposed to chlorinated water – every day. One of the reasons chlorine is a success, is that it - unlike some other chemicals - continue to have an effect after we have consumed it. So, essentially, humans are consuming 'anti-life' every day, and yet are surprised why the good bacteria, microorganisms and B12 have a hard time surviving...

[Seaside]

Posted by Korn:

Don't forget that most of os either drink chlorinated water, and/or eat plants that have been exposed to chlorinated water – every day.

I do forget, because my gramma started filtering her water when San Francisco voted for fluoride to be included in it. It's been a family tradition to filter tap water ever since. I don't even water my houseplants with tap water.
I also use shower and bath filters. Trouble is, now my municipal water supply is being treated with chloramines, which are much more difficult to remove. I am now distilling my drinking water.

Thanks for the links!

[Korn]

Filtering might be useful, but if the B12 has been killed by the copper in the water tubes or by the chlorination before the water is filtered, the B12 doesn't resurrect from the dead by passing through the filter.....

[Seaside]

Posted by Korn:

Filtering might be useful, but if the B12 has been killed by the copper in the water tubes or by the chlorination before the water is filtered, the B12 doesn't resurrect from the dead by passing through the filter.....

True, but at least it won't kill off whatever I've got living inside me!

[eve]

For what it's worth, there's a Finnish study report in "BMC Psychiatry" (2003; 3:17) that refers to B12 and anti-depressants, stating that antidepressants were more effective in patients with high blood levels of vitamin B12, while they failed to have a strong an effect on those with low levels of B12.