This BNP stuff

[gogs67]

Was looking at the list tonight round at a mates and he spotted HIS OWN post code, turns out it's his next door neighbour and guy he gives a lift to work every morning!!!!
Tomorrows gonna be interesting, lol!!!

[Risker]

It is interesting to look in a nosey neighbour kind of way but it's important to remember that the information is out of date and many aren't even members anymore (apparently many never were).

Also, it's easy to assume everyone on the list is racist but it's easy for some people to buy into some of the BNP's ideas that the country is letting in "too many" immigrants and that they're "taking our jobs" especially if they have lost their own jobs etc. The BNP offers the quick fix that some people are looking for.

As much as I hate the BNP I think the people that do support them deserve the right to privacy. (not that I haven't looked)

[gogs67]

It's late 2007 which is about as up to date as the voters roll here, lol!
As for names on it not being racist, everyone i recognised i wasn't surprised to see there.
But i know what you mean, the BNP arn't really that right wing compared to the 'good' old days, you only have to look at some of the Blood and Honour or C18 forums to see how much the real hardliners despise them nowadays as 'middle of the road'!

[Stu]

I just had a look at the list, and was surprised to see that none of my family are on it.

[Buddha Belly]

Pardon my ignorance, was it illegal to put the list online? Is it still out there? Is there a link? Very sorry if i have broken a rule

[clare155]

Just google BNP members list and it'll be there somewhere!

[Buddha Belly]

http://www.bnpmemberslist.co.uk/
This is it.
I have started reading the e-mail threats and reply's...... It is brilliant.

[Stu]

I have started reading the e-mail threats and reply's...... It is brilliant.

Oh my gosh, those are flippin' hilarious. Good stuff!

[bradders]

a fair few of my neighbours are on the list, but then there is a havering bnp councillor

[bradders]

looked a little closer and I can see into the back garden and house of one of those on the list from my kitchen:S

[Risker]

Run for your life!!!

[bradders]

an extreme reaction, (though I did always think his garden was a little fascist, too perfect, every flower in just the right place, every line perfectly straight and the grass was just too green)

[BlackCats]

I don't even need to check the list, I know there are lots of BNP supporters in my area already.
(I wonder though how accurate the list is and how many people have moved house since then.)

[bradders]

the list has been blocked now (but if you really want to see it that badly you can always google it and go to cached)

[bradders]

I hope that this gets people to think again before joining such a disgusting organisation. At the same time I believe they have the right to their views and to exist as a legitimate party provided they don't engage in illegal activity or allow people so to do in their name.
Simple freedom of speech.

[gogs67]

BUNUuqlG1a0

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[YOUTUBE]
BUNUuqlG1a0
[/YOUTUBE]

[Risker]

^ LOL, I saw it earlier

[gogs67]

^ LOL, I saw it earlier

How the hell do you embed YouTube vids onto this site?
I tried everything there!

[Risker]

[YOUTUBE]BUNUuqlG1a0[/YOUTUBE] 

Like that. (Obviously not in a PHP code box though)

[gogs67]

[youtube]BUNUuqlG1a0[/youtube] 

Like that. (Obviously not in a PHP code box though)

Just tried that on the edit, still didnae work, lol!!!

[Risker]

It didn't work because you copied the font colours and styles into it aswell.

[youtube]BUNUuqlG1a0[/youtube]

[Prawnil]

I do feel that it was an unpleasant breach of privacy.
Still, my favourite:

Mr
B
NP
12 BNP Lane
Blah
Blah
BLAH BNP
Will not be renewing 07 (objects to being told he shouldn't wear a bomber jacket)

[Ruby Rose]

That video, sir, made me LOL.

[bradders]

too funny for words

[Agatha]

i'm a bit confused about the whole thing to be honest. In the news a police officer was suspended from duty because his name was on the list. i assume he will be sacked if he is genuinely a member of the BNP. now i agree the constabulary has an equal opportunities policy it must adhere to and employing a self confessed racist would not really be in keeping with that policy BUT this is where i get stuck: the BNP have the right to exist, stand in elections, recruit voters etc and people have the right to vote for them and join the party. they are therefore, like it or not, a legitimate political party. so, i don't understand how people who belong to a legitimate political party can be sacked from their jobs, especially a job in the public sector. i would be mightily annoyed if i was told the green party are extremists and i was sacked form my nhs job. i think i've probably missed the point somewhere along the line and would like someone to explain this to me in simple terms. *confused*

[bradders]

the issue there is that the police, civil service etc is supposed to be neutral and therefore not meant to be part of organizations towards any extreme, people have been sacked from meadiocre jobs in the civil service for being in the BNP. I don't agree with the BNP nor do I agree with silencing them or restricting membership. Personally senior civil servants, police officers etc maybe shouldn't be in political parties. On the other hand there is the ability to separate work from beliefs. A doctor who saves the life of a murderer without question for example.

[Buddha Belly]

i'm a bit confused about the whole thing to be honest. In the news a police officer was suspended from duty because his name was on the list. i assume he will be sacked if he is genuinely a member of the BNP. now i agree the constabulary has an equal opportunities policy it must adhere to and employing a self confessed racist would not really be in keeping with that policy BUT this is where i get stuck: the BNP have the right to exist, stand in elections, recruit voters etc and people have the right to vote for them and join the party. they are therefore, like it or not, a legitimate political party. so, i don't understand how people who belong to a legitimate political party can be sacked from their jobs, especially a job in the public sector. i would be mightily annoyed if i was told the green party are extremists and i was sacked form my nhs job. i think i've probably missed the point somewhere along the line and would like someone to explain this to me in simple terms. *confused*

This is a very hard arguement to have without sounding like some crazy BNP/KKK supporter ( i am hardcore socialist)
I agree with you. There is a lot of confusion in this subject.
I do not believe in anything that the BNP stand for, BUT i like that i live in a country where they are allowed to exist. To deny the BNP's voters/members a voice would be destroying the hard won right to vote and (limited) free speech that we have in this country. To sack police officers for their personal views is dubious, a lot of considerations must be taken into account before that action is taken. To sack people for their political views will push supporters underground and build more frustration and anger with the government.
Pro minority and religous groups are allowed to exist in civil service workforces' to promote their views and the BNP see themselves as doing this for white british people.
The BNP have only just stopped officially promoting repatririation, sterialisation of sex offenders and open racism.
It is due to this that the police would not want a member of the BNP in their ranks. For the last 20+ years the polioce have been investigating complaints into racism and violence from the BNP.
The BNP take young disenfranchised people and make them believe the furture would be better with all the (fill in minority of choice) out of the UK. Some people need to blame someone for their own lifes failings and to place this blame on others is so much easier. The only way to beat this way of thought is to show peole that it is not others who are fault for problems but the governments/ corporations/ omnivores

i'm going to stop cos i've lost track of what i'm waffling about.

[flying plum]

the police have a policy of not allowing their employees to be members of the BNP, so by joining, the officers are in breach of their contract. the clause is justified on the basis that membership could seriously damage race relations within the police and, given the accusations of institutional racism that have been flung at the police force in the UK over recent years, you can see why they have this policy.

There is a German case which was brought under the European Convention where a teacher was fired from her job because civil servants were not permitted to be members of certain political parties at all in Germany - she was a member of the communist party. the court held that such a policy was fine, but must be proportional, and that sacking her was not a respect of her right to freedom of expression becuase it was a disproportionate reaction. the policy existed because civil servants could not be members of a party which sought to undermine the existing government (this was in the days of a separated Germany), but the Court noted that, as a teacher, she was in no position to do that, and classified as a civil servant only on the basis of being paid by the government. however, i think they would find such a policy to be proportionate where the police were concerned, and frankly, i agree.

while i believe freedom of expression and association are very important rights, likewise i believe that racial equality is equally important. the BNP is a legitimate political party and as such must be allowed to exist for as long as it acts legally. however, this does not mean that membership of such a party is appropriate for all persons in society, and i think this is particularly importnat with regards to the police force, who have a hard enough time as it is encouraging ethnic minority communities to support them, without having to combat claims that they're are all racist, and now there is proof in BNP membership.

however, i do disagree with the publication of this document, mainly because it will encourage vigilantism. the BNP is a legal, registered party and people (other than those mentioned) have a right to belong to it. their views may seem abhorrent to us, but then that should be more motivation to combat such viewpoints, not to throw bricks through their windows...

amanda

[Gorilla]

^ i agree, amanda.

[saycheezly]

i think my issue is that they are a bunch of thugs and racists posing as a legitimate party. they want to create fear and division and a broken society and as such have lost their right to anything as far as i am concerned.

[flying plum]

^ i agree, amanda.

i'm glad someone does i often feel i'm arguing on my own little lonely soapbox

[Ruby Rose]

I also agree with you, Amanda. I think people are entitled to their political views, and the rules concerning membership of political groups are there not to stop people having extreme views, but from being in a position to act on them in the guise of whatever position of authority their job gives them.

i think my issue is that they are a bunch of thugs and racists posing as a legitimate party.

I don't agree, SC - there are certainly thugs and racists in the BNP, but not all of their members are. They are a legal, legitimate political group - they have no less right to exist than political groups we might support such as Animals Count.

they want to create fear and division and a broken society and as such have lost their right to anything as far as i am concerned.

I think there'll be plenty of their members who have joined the party not in order to divide and break society, but because they wrongly believe society already to be divided and broken. They are a party whose underlying drive is to "put things right, get things back to how they used to be" - again, abhorrent and misguided to us, but a perfectly legitimate interpretation of 21st century society. The fact that they have started to use the democratic process, and to stand in local council elections, and have received a mandate from the local electorate, means that they have every right to say what they are saying. Sadly, possibly even more right than we do as vegans or animal-rights protesters - after all, we're not elected by anyone, are we?

Not getting at you in any way, you understand, SC - just thinking out loud about how horrid it is that there is a perceived need for the BNP among the voters.

[horselesspaul]

however, i do disagree with the publication of this document,

It was made public by BNP members for their own ends.
The BNP espouse views incompatible with certain public sector professions, as has been stated here. If you want to be a racist copper/teacher, just don't be a paid up member of the BNP. Simple and cheaper.

[gogs67]

i think my issue is that they are a bunch of thugs and racists .

And on the other side of the coin a friend of mine and his brother were hospitalised the other week in Madrid by 12 guys with iron bars from a left wing group called RASH (Red and Anarchist Skinheads) because, seemingly, they were nazis!
2 photos have been doing the rounds on the internet, taken over 20 years ago, one showing the two of them in Sweden wi some kids they didn't know SH'ling in the background and another taken of my mates brother beside the drummer of a well known skinhead band, again, he didn't have a clue who this guy was at the time.
20 years down the line they almost die in Spain because of the same brainless thuggery that is associated with the Right.

[bradders]

this is a fear for me, how long before the spanish? bank gets blown up because of something in the sun or news of the world because it has bnp in its name or people who have moved into an old house of someone on the list gets attacked

[saycheezly]

I'm absolutely not saying that senseless or thoughtless violence is acceptable. From left right or anywhere.

I know that the BNP are a legal political party. I know that people are hoodwinked by them because society is broken - this is exactly how Hitler got to power in germany.

But - this party follows a fascist ideology, is led by a man who called the holocaust the 'holohaux' and helped to set up the student wing of the NF! They must be stopped and challenged at every step they take so that they can never get one more vote or one more councillor. And people say that they are a legal legitimate political party as if that somehow makes their well marketed, cleaned up, golden spun brand of vile racism more palatable.

[flying plum]

It was made public by BNP members for their own ends.
The BNP espouse views incompatible with certain public sector professions, as has been stated here. If you want to be a racist copper/teacher, just don't be a paid up member of the BNP. Simple and cheaper.

i was under the impression that it was made public by kicked-out members of the party seeking revenge?

secondly, i don't disagree with its publication because it has exposed people in positions who shouldn't be members and are therefore losing their jobs. i disagree with it because it has revealed a number of names of 'normal' people, who have every right to belong to a legal party who are at risk of being subjected to vigilante behaviour. freedom of speech does not just permit speech which we find agreeable or are indifferent to, but also that which is offensive, shocking or disturbing. sometimes these views are of great value - for example, suggesting that homosexuality was acceptible was 'shocking' and indeed 'offensive' to many people 40 years ago - and indeed, often still is. that a black man and a white woman could marry each other, or that children of different races could go to the same school. all offensive statements, which have been shown to be 'true', by whatever normative standard you take.

if you belief in freedom of speech, you must fight bad ideas with good ideas, and achieve a better accepted norm. repressing it simply silences it - it doesn't eradicate the ideas.

amanda

[Prawnil]

I'm not sure if I can bring myself to watch Question Time tonight. BBC journalists will regularly tear into politicians representing established parties, as if it is the fact that their manner towards them can't actually make much political difference that allows it, but in confronting lunatics they've always seemed to me to be far more placid. I interpret that as avoiding situations that could allow them to be accused of bias.
For god's sake. I do not pay a fee for the well-greased con-artistry of a white supremacist holocaust denier to be given a platform without being torn apart.
The only people likely, as far as I see it, to beast the c**t are audience members. I'll be horribly disappointed if nothing gets thrown.

[puca]

I am gonna be watching this tonight (and recording it if I can work the TV). It will be interesting.

[leedsveg]

I'll be horribly disappointed if nothing gets thrown.

Maybe some chap who is without sin, will turn up and chuck the first stone? Or there again, perhaps the place will be full of those blessed cheesemakers?

lv

[leedsveg]

Just watched the 10pm news and (the recording of ) the programme itself seems to have passed off peacefully. The demonstration against the programme resulted in some police officers getting injured.

Isn't there a saying, something like 'I don't agree with what you say but I defend to the death your right to say it.'?

lv

[Daffodil]

I'm just off to watch it now (sky plussed it)

[vegcurry]

Just watched the 10pm news and (the recording of ) the programme itself seems to have passed off peacefully. The demonstration against the programme resulted in some police officers getting injured.

Isn't there a saying, something like 'I don't agree with what you say but I defend to the death your right to say it.'?

lv

There is indeed, and yet I don't think Nick Griffin and his hate filled followers would agree with that sentiment if the shoe was on the other foot.

[beanstew]

QT tweets (loads of hilarious ones!)

[puca]

Bonnie Greer is cool

[leedsveg]

There is indeed, and yet I don't think Nick Griffin and his hate filled followers would agree with that sentiment if the shoe was on the other foot.

Hi vc

I already had that ironic notion about Nick Griffin and the BNP. And yet if we were to copy BNP 'values', wouldn't we be in danger of turning into the BNP?

lv

[BlackCats]

I thought Question Time was okay last night, Nick Griffin seemed like an ignorant and racist fool, so no surprise there. Unfortunately some people still agree with him. I find the BNP so depressing. I live in Barking and Dagenham and since I moved here I have been amazed by how racist the people are in this area. In the local elections I usually have to vote Labour because it is a choice between them or the BNP. The level of education in this area is very low and there are many people in council housing/ on benefits and very high teenage pregnancy. I have had many people say to me that the problems of the area are to do with the amount of Africans moving into the area.

[beanstew]

Bonnie Greer is cool

+1 She was awesome.

[Daffodil]

^ +2

[beanstew]

[youtube]j_EpcW6ucbo[/youtube]