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Animals in circuses
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Thread: Animals in circuses

  1. #1
    Cider&Curry :D Frosty's Avatar
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    Default Animals in circuses

    The people at Londons Wandsworth Borough Council would like people to give their views on animals being used in circuses.

    http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/Home/My...a/circuses.htm

    Thought it'd be a good way of getting some great vegan opinion to them
    I like football. And potatoes.

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Animals In Circuses

    done

  3. #3
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Animals In Circuses

    I did as well, a while back. I was surprised that there wasn't already an across-the-board ban.

  4. #4
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Animals In Circuses

    ban the use of non-domesticated animals in circuses until such time as an effective licensing system exists
    shame they're considering allowing it again if they can license it though! i thought animals in circuses were so out of favour these days that most circuses don't even use them anymore.
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  5. #5

    Default Re: Animals In Circuses

    Quote Gorilla View Post
    shame they're considering allowing it again if they can license it though! i thought animals in circuses were so out of favour these days that most circuses don't even use them anymore.
    About 25 years ago I was involved in campaigns to get councils to ban animal circuses, and many did, but unfortunately they seem to be making a comeback and some councils may be under pressure to let them use their land again. They've always been allowed to use private land. Where I live every year at least a couple of animal circuses perform. They usually have dogs and horses but more recently big cats have been reintroduced.

  6. #6
    Cider&Curry :D Frosty's Avatar
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    Default Elephants in Circuses

    This article is taken from the Guardian:

    The RSPCA condemned the return of performing elephants to a British circus today, calling it a disgrace and a "body blow for animal welfare".
    The three elephants are due to appear in the Great British Circus big top in Newark, Nottinghamshire, tonight. It will be the first time circus elephants have appeared since the country's last surviving circus elephant, Anne, performed tricks over a decade ago.
    Dr Rob Atkinson, head of the RSPCA's wildlife department, said: "This is a body blow for animal welfare in this country. I am sure this news will shock and sadden the public, which has consistently shown its opposition to the use of wild animals in circuses. Asking these majestic animals to behave in unnatural ways in the name of entertainment is a disgrace – a disgrace which is already banned in several other European countries.
    "This has to be a wake-up call for the government, which pledged to ban certain species in circuses almost three years ago. The argument that the practice will die out naturally has now been shown to be null and void."
    Atkinson said the elephants would be kept in confinement and constantly transported, and that the animals would be forced to form abnormal social groups. "There is absolutely no similarity between the lives of wild elephants and those of these circus captives. Wild elephants lead dynamic, socially-complex lives governed by their relationships with family members and the demands of finding and eating huge quantities of vegetation."
    Atkinson said performances would place an "unbearable strain" on the elephants' joints and bodies and called for the public to think carefully before going.
    "How are we benefited as a nation for permitting tigers to leap through hoops and bears to ride bicycles?" he said.
    The Great British Circus was not available for comment today but a plug for the show on its website said: "Two Asian and one African elephant rolled into town today, the first time for over 10 years that a European elephant act has been brought to a circus in the UK. Sonja, Delhi and Vana Mana look very content as they slurp their daily ration of 200 litres of water. Despite their size these three lovely ladies are very gentle creatures. You can see how clever they are at every show when the Great British Circus comes to your town."
    Last edited by Korn; Mar 26th, 2010 at 03:00 PM. Reason: This was the first post in a similar thread
    I like football. And potatoes.

  7. #7
    Johnstuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    I just heard that on the radio

    I can't forget the section in Earthlings when the Eliphant escapes form a circus only to be gunned down by police in the street.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    Quote Frosty View Post
    The Great British Circus was not available for comment today but a plug for the show on its website said: "You can see how clever they are at every show when the Great British Circus comes to your town."
    Makes me fuqing puke.
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  9. #9
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    This is their website if you want to email them, i'm about to do so.

    "This year we are pleased to welcome one African and two Asian elephants in an exciting but tender presentation. Our African elephant is called Sonja, and her mother was shot in an elephant cull due to overpopulation and was sold by the game park to raise capital for the running of the park. Our Indian elephants, Delhi and Vana Mana were born on a lumber camp in Burma and sold when weaned to an animal dealer to supplement the shrinking income of the camp as logging decreased. The animals are now great ambassadors for the species entertaining and educating the public within the care and security of the circus to protect them."

    Last edited by Gorilla; Feb 27th, 2009 at 02:00 PM. Reason: add quote
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  10. #10

    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    I have mailed them already but it will do little I suspect...
    I have put a ranting, violent interview with their Ringmaster (sic.) on YouTube to counter their advertisement and stooge comments thereon.
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  11. #11
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    i've also just spotted this at the bottom of their website:

    "After almost two years of fact finding, the DEFRA report "Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses" concluded that there is No scientific evidence to demonstrate that travelling circuses are not able to meet the welfare needs of any type of non-domestic animals presently being used in the United Kingdom. This exonerates animal trainers who for too long have been the whipping boys of Animal Rights charities who have used lies, misinformation and slick advertising to raise funds to fill their coffers. These fat cats have taken advantage of kind hearted animal lovers and tried to manipulate the great British public and politicians with false spin and sound bites. I urge everyone to visit and see every good animal circus. We need your support, so we can continue to care for our animal families to the same high standards the DEFRA survey discovered."

    !!!!!!!
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  12. #12
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    I'm not sure if this would be of any use to any of you all but thought some of these might be useful for protests and boycott demonstrations. Writing to the circus itself saying "I want you to stop" seems futile, in my opinion, but getting people to boycott them, with the help of such videos, might be more productive.

    Listen to the owner and ringmaster, Mr. Lacy [He's obviously an abusive person in general]:

    [YOUTUBE]vsTArq1BFig[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE]T2SXEUrKJPw[/YOUTUBE]

    More in general, not specific to this circus:

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?...&hl=en&tab=wv#

  13. #13
    VeganMonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    Quote Gorilla View Post
    i've also just spotted this at the bottom of their website:

    "This exonerates animal trainers who for too long have been the whipping boys of Animal Rights charities who have used lies, misinformation and slick advertising to raise funds to fill their coffers. These fat cats have taken advantage of kind hearted animal lovers and tried to manipulate the great British public and politicians with false spin and sound bites. I urge everyone to visit and see every good animal circus. We need your support, so we can continue to care for our animal families to the same high standards the DEFRA survey discovered."

    !!!!!!!
    OMG, I can't express how angry this makes me. And what an obnoxious, agressive man the owner is (talk about defensive!)
    Will have to look at the DEFRA report - are they really condoning this?

  14. #14
    emoticonaddict Spud Addict's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    This can't be right surely. I can't believe anyone would even want to see animals in a circus any more, not in this day and age!
    No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.

  15. #15
    Eager Beaver philfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    Years ago (back in the late 80s and early 90s) when I was a kid, each year we'd go to a hippy festival near us. Each year the RSPCA etc would e there with their stands with leaflets against hunting, etc and leaflets against animals in the circus.

    I remember at school handing out the spares which I brought back and everyone was 'oh we know how bad animals in circuses are treated so we only go to ones with clowns' that sort of answers.

    Now though, more and more people seem to not care. A lot only disprove of 'wild' animals in circuses. But I hate to see any animal performing. Including tv adverts, circuses, dog shows etc. Horses and dogs in circuses are just as badly treated as the other animals. I hate it all.
    Vegan Forum: keeping me sane in the world of the ignorant.

  16. #16
    helen105281
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    Quote Spud Addict View Post
    This can't be right surely. I can't believe anyone would even want to see animals in a circus any more, not in this day and age!
    Buddha Belly went on a protest a few months ago where Bobby Roberts circus were parading Anne around for photos, lots of people went into the circus having bought tickets but once they realised there were animals involved they came straight back out again.

    I can't believe that the Great British circus are trying to make us believe that these elephants being in the circus is a good thing.

  17. #17
    Wooden Shoe
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    I was in Newark tonight protesting on the opening night of the "Great
    B @ stard Circus's" eight month tour. It went quite well, a fair number of people took leaflets. We didn't get anyone turning around and leaving unfortunately, but perhaps next time they'll think twice about attending. But on a more positive note there really weren't that many people going in, especially for an opening night, so we take some solace from that and there was also press interest so we hope that ends up playing well too. We'll be back again so the circus won't fail to hear the message, that what they do in the name of 'entertainment' is disgusting and we aim to help stop them!

    I think the introduction of the elephants could be the catalyst to force the governments hand and make them introduce a blanket ban on animals in circuses, as it really should have done already of course . I feel the amount of negative coverage this has already generated should serve to wake the law makers from their stupor, and we should see some changes, at least I bloomin' hope so. It could possibly be some sort of 'last hurrah' for this type of circus, they've only put out quite so many animals now as they know really the game is up and they want to go out with a 'bang', the resulting outcry from the public should, I hope sound the death knell for them and they're ilk. Who knows though, eh?!...

    And if not?, well I know that myself and others will be out there at every stage to oppose them, the end might not come as soon as we'd like, but it can't last much longer. Well that's what I try and tell myself anyway! But sadly, as we know, the world is all too often a deeply unjust place . All I'd really say is I hope others will give these scumbags as unfriendly a welcome as we did tonight when they swing into their town! These people need opposing! Oh and DEFRA are a bloody joke aren't they!!

  18. #18
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    To all:

    Don't trust Mr Lacy to explain what DEFRA said or concluded. They also never gave him a "passing score" as he clearly implies unless "failed to press charges" equals "passing score". It's all spin. DEFRA was never sent out to evaluate his particular circus but rather circuses in general. I'm not defending DEFRA and obviously as a vegan oppose the use of animals both wild and domestic, but I would suggest we read what they said directly, instead of taking his biased word for it:

    How these sentiments can best be put into practice is a political issue. The overriding conclusion of this exercise is that our present state of knowledge about the welfare of non-domesticated animals used in circuses is such that we cannot look to scientific evidence for a steer in the development of policy; it is, ultimately, an entirely political decision. Once the relevant policy is decided upon, its implementation is essentially a question of politics and law; science, on this occasion, provides no relevant guidance as to the appropriate principle to be adopted.

    That same report shows that only about 50 wild animals are left being used in circuses in the UK. Would I be correct that this is a large decrease form earlier decades? I hope so. I'm trying to find international figures and US figures but have come up short so far.

    I liked this, though:

    http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/issues_...cus_myths.html

  19. #19
    VeganMonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    Good on you for protesting WoodenShoe! There's been so much negative press coverage for them which has to be a good thing. I'm hopeful that enough people are disgusted by animal circuses to stop them being profitable very soon. Although as mentioned above, most people probably only take issue with the use of wild animals.
    I agree Makh, I looked at the DEFRA report and they were saying that there's no scientific evidence that the welfare of the animals is worse than in zoos but weren't saying that their welfare was good. It's depressing bureaucracy though - you wish they could just do what's so obviously the right thing and impose a blanket ban on animals in circuses.

  20. #20
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    For those that have a total disregard for the animals' well being, perhaps we could appeal to their desire for "safety":

    "Since 1990 there have been reported over 43 human fatalities and more than 100 injuries as a result of attacks by captive elephants. In the same time period, there have been 25 fatalities and 75 attacks by captive wild felines."

    Source

  21. #21
    brucie-g's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    Unfortunately there are plenty of sad, pathetic individuals who are willing to pay to let their children see disgusting acts like these.
    This society really does sicken me and I am so ashamed to be a human!

  22. #22
    [LMNOP] ellaminnowpea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    I've participated in circus protests before. Yesterday, I saw a veg*n friend who had done the protest with me last year against the Ringling Brothers, Barnum & Bailey group. It was awesome to do something publicly, and actually get some feedback from the public. It was also quite frustrating knowing that hundreds of people were paying all this money to watch exploited animals because it's "tradition" and "entertainment".

    I wasn't aware that UK circuses had stopped exploiting circus animals (until now). It just makes me wonder how our government neglects AR so easily. Our college newspaper chose to write an article on the event, but failed to mention our protests. The article is making me angry.

    The circus also features horses, dogs, elephants and zebras, Jeske said, in addition to 12 tigers, which he and Berkeley almost forgot to mention.

    "They scare me, so I forget about them sometimes," Berkley said.

    On Tuesday, the elephants and horses from the circus were paraded down Route 26 from the Nittany Mall, where the train carrying them stopped, to the Bryce Jordan Center... The parade traveled down part of Route 26, turned onto Porter Road, then Curtin Road and ended at the BJC.

    Three-hundred and fifty people travel with the circus by train from city to city, including the 150 performers, 49 animals and nine musicians, which make up the band that inconspicuously provides all the music for the entire performance.

    The band has to be able to improvise, especially when working with animals that are sometimes unpredictable.

    "Almost every show, we're required to do something that we didn't do the show before," he said. "When you're working with horses, tigers and little dogs, anything could happen".

    "You're living in the middle of a hurricane," he added, "but you figure it out."

    Punt said the circus, which will hold seven performances over the weekend, attracts audiences from small children to senior citizens because of the longstanding tradition it represents.

    "I don't know at what other show you can see that range of an audience," he said. "That's why it's still here; that's why it's part of our culture and entertainment."
    Animals are unpredictable? Anything could happen? They are fucking animals!! Maybe this makes it clear that animals are NOT suited to be paraded and exploited to do unnatural "acts". How can groups be proud that they USE animals and put them in dangerous conditions... for the sake of "entertainment" because its "tradition" and part of "our culture". People are either blind or delusional.
    I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship. ~ Alcott

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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    How sad for those poor elephants

  24. #24
    Cider&Curry :D Frosty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    Quote ellaminnowpea View Post
    Animals are unpredictable? Anything could happen? They are fucking animals!! Maybe this makes it clear that animals are NOT suited to be paraded and exploited to do unnatural "acts".
    Exactly!
    I like football. And potatoes.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    That reminds me of one time when I saw a news report of an elephant (who was performing, I believe), and ended up hurting some people in the setting. I dunno, when people are that thoughtless, my sympathies were more with the elephant (that I'm pretty sure got killed ;( ). And we were omni then.

    I really don't believe people have this universal right to walk over anything in any abrasive manner we please, and to not have to deal with the consequences when creatures bite back when we rub them the wrong way, or even threaten their existence as we often do. It's like people who touch cats and dogs in ways they don't like and say, "oh, she's happy and likes me" and then when they've misread all the animal's other body language, then they are so shocked that they get scratched or whatnot. (Heck, I get the same reactions from school staff who couldn't read me and couldn't seem to learn from the past or from reading things I typed. :O )

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    Saw this on the Internet
    I still cant believe that the use of animals for entertainment hasn't been banned.

    I have mentioned before that i know one of the Roberts from Roberts circus (not a friend just a guy from where i used to work). They still have a elephant they used to use but keep it as a pet. He told me it is well looked after and they spend loads of money feeding it etc but they still take it with them when they travel, now this poor elephant is quite old now. If they cared for it like he claims they do they would give it a quite home where it could rest and be looked after.

  27. #27

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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    You'd think that in this day and age this horrible spectacle would be a thing of the past.

    I was involved in anti-animal circus protests in the 1980s/90s and also attended many council meetings trying to persuade local authorities to ban animal circuses in their area on council land. They could still perform on private land but life was made more difficult for them and the number of animal circuses went down, now it seems they're on the rise again

  28. #28
    V for Veganica Sarabi's Avatar
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    Default Bolivia Bans Wild and Domestic Animals in Traveling Circuses

    LA PAZ, Bolivia, July 14, 2009 (ENS) - Bolivian President Evo Morales has signed the world's first law prohibiting the use of both wild and domestic animals in traveling circuses. This is the first national law to ban the use of both domestic and wild animals in circuses.

    To date, Croatia, Singapore, Austria, Israel and Costa Rica have all banned wild animals in circuses. Similar bans on animal use in traveling circuses in Costa Rica, Finland and Denmark only prohibit the use of wild animals or certain species. The Bolivian law, signed earlier this month, was tabled by Congresswoman Ximena Flores of Potosi. It is expected to be published shortly.

    The law arose as a result of evidence gathered during an undercover investigation by the nonprofit Animal Defenders International.

    Read the rest of the article here: http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jul2...9-07-14-02.asp

    Y'know, humans were once upon a time also exploited as traveling circus animals... conjoined twins were used as circus show freaks.
    Last edited by Korn; Mar 26th, 2010 at 03:00 PM. Reason: This was the first post in a similar thread
    "To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana." - Buddha

  29. #29
    *live*&*let*live
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    Default Re: Bolivia Bans Wild and Domestic Animals in Traveling Circuses

    HURRAH

    Um yeah, remember the bearded lady and other poor disfigured people.....sad but that was the Victorians for ya.

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    Default Re: Bolivia Bans Wild and Domestic Animals in Traveling Circuses

    Yay!!! Hopefully other countries will follow suit That's great news! Thanks for posting, Sarabi

  31. #31
    *live*&*let*live
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    Default Re: Bolivia Bans Wild and Domestic Animals in Traveling Circuses

    On this sad subject just had an email which included a video from Peta. I am crap at posting links. Please sign the petition. It showed footage of men beating the elephants and also tigers before they went on stage
    It was shocking, yes I cried, I feel so helpless.....just as the film started one elephant was cracked on the leg with a stick and he raises his leg up... like a wounded animal, like my Elsie does when she hurts herself or wants attention...its soul destroying...
    They later pull them with bullrings which stick in the skin, and the poor elephant is pulled to the ring and the darling behind is following holding his tail...awwww. The tigers are being beaten to do tricks! I cannot imagine why they don't turn on him......same with the elephants.
    Its Barnum and Bailey and Ringling Bros this time, ban all circuses with animals I say!

    PLEASE SIGN AND CHECK OUT THE FOOTAGE IF YOU CAN BEAR IT

  32. #32
    Wild Thing everdream's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bolivia Bans Wild and Domestic Animals in Traveling Circuses

    There's a circus with performing animals near me going on soon (Maybe starting today or tomorrow). It saddens me, they have elephants, tigers ect. These creatures don't belong in a circus.

  33. #33
    Saul
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    Default Re: Bolivia Bans Wild and Domestic Animals in Traveling Circuses

    Quote everdream View Post
    There's a circus with performing animals near me going on soon (Maybe starting today or tomorrow). It saddens me, they have elephants, tigers ect. These creatures don't belong in a circus.
    I agree,any type of incarceration is cruel circus,zoo's,aquariums etc imo.

  34. #34
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    It seems that it will finally become illegal to have elephants, zebras and sea lions in Norwegian circuses unless someone manages to stop the suggested, new law.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  35. #35
    helen105281
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    Default Re: Elephants in Circuses

    That would be great if it happened. Wish they would do the same here for any performing animal.

  36. #36
    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elephants in Circuses

    I've done a couple of circus demos in my time and some people just laugh at us as they walk in. One woman recently asked how we knew the animals were mistreated...to me it doesn't matter if they had the best food and living conditions available. It is still exploitation...
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  37. #37
    helen105281
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    Default Re: Elephants in Circuses

    My thoughts exactly Emzy.

  38. #38
    Linxie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Animals In Circuses

    Wasn't sure where to post this, here seemed as good a place as any.

    Fingers crossed this goes ahead this time:

    http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/latest/...nimal-0326.htm

  39. #39
    Buddha Belly
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    Default Re: Animals In Circuses

    Yay! 94%! At bloody last something may happen. Of course once wild animals are banned we need a ban on domesticated animals.

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Animals In Circuses

    Sounds good. Let's hope something comes of it at long last.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Animals In Circuses

    the stable my sister used to help out in rescued a horse from a circus. apparently he had been kept in shackles, had whip marks on his back and they'd dyed his hair multicoloured. apparently he used to dance on his back legs and was scared to run around the paddy incase it got whipped poor thing. it's sick that people think they can treat any living species that way.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Elephants Back in UK Circus

    [QUOTE=philfox;556598]Years ago (back in the late 80s and early 90s) when I was a kid, each year we'd go to a hippy festival near us. Each year the RSPCA etc would e there with their stands with leaflets against hunting, etc and leaflets against animals in the circus.

    I remember at school handing out the spares which I brought back and everyone was 'oh we know how bad animals in circuses are treated so we only go to ones with clowns' that sort of answers.

    QUOTE]

    Hi Phil
    I can identify with that one!

    In the 90's I carried out a one woman campaign against the circus when it came to our locality . Leaflets were handed out at the school and posters were everywhere advertising their 'infamous show'complete with an elephant and tiger. I sent off for a huge bundle of leaflets from the animal rights group I belonged to and pinned them up side by side with the circus ones. I also stood at the school gate giving out leaflets and answering questions . Several things happened .

    One predictable thing that happened was that for every leaflet I pinned up someone would rip one down. I put them up again and again and each time they were taken down. Circus staff apparently found a lone mum with a bunch of leaflets such a threat they actually followed me around at one point !

    Another thing that happened was that the headmaster of the school called me in and asked me very politely but firmly to stop giving out the leaflets as the children could be distressed by the images they portrayed. He told me the children were very excited about the circus and I was upsetting them.

    The most idiotic thing that happened was that the parents response was to refuse the leaflets on the grounds that they knew that the animals were badly treated but they didnt go to see them ..only the clowns.


    Presumably if they covered their eyes while the animals were performing that made it all ok?

  43. #43
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Animals In Circuses

    Good for you Slack for what you were doing. Circus folk are not renowned for being friendly towards animal rights protestors and I think you put yourself at some risk of harm.

    lv

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    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Jan 24th, 2011, 03:21 PM
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: Apr 20th, 2008, 05:04 PM

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