Pest control at work

[mogthecat]

Hi - I wasn't sure where to put this & can't find any threads which specifically deal with this. Would really value some advice from anyone who's been in a similar situation.

I just discovered that the building where I work uses lethal mouse traps. There's one in the kitchen which I see every time I go in there. I've asked our facilities department to look into humane alternatives, but I don't know whether I'll be able to make any difference. It probably seems a very small and frivolous issue to them. I work in a huge building (of 800 people) and in quite a corporate environment so it's very difficult to get anything changed.

Anyone got any tips or good arguments I can use to convince corporate-minded non-vegans that it's worth their while to spend extra time and money on changing their pest-control methods? (when I put it like that it seems unlikely, but I live in hope!)

[harpy]

You could point out that it's not that pleasant (or sanitary) to have mouse corpses around the place - you're probably not the only one of the 800 that would object to that. ETA unless they pay someone to remove them often in which case it's expensive?

Somebody in this thread was recommending the plug-in sonar deterrent things http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21331

Perhaps you could ask them to try that combined with getting rid of whatever's attracting the mice in the first place (do people leave food lying around?).

[horselesspaul]

'Accidentally' trap your least used toe in one and sue them.
Gone.

[Gorilla]

^ that doesn't work if they use poison, which most big buildings do.

[horselesspaul]

Accidentally eat a non lethal dose along with your carefully dropped sandwich and sue them.

[harpy]

Accidentally eat a non lethal dose along with your carefully dropped sandwich and sue them.

Don't try this at home, children.

[horselesspaul]

Sorry.
I should have added that this should only be done if one is already taking Warfarin medicinally and has run out.
Obviously, addressing the reason for the presence of mice would be by far the best, and possibly the most productive, option.

[mogthecat]

It is poison that they use, in little black boxes hidden in corners, so it'd be quite hard to drop food on it, then pick it up and eat it (although the thought had occurred to me!). It's in a kitchen area so unfortunately food is always there, but I'll talk to them about how often the bins are emptied etc. The sonar thing is a good, practical idea too. The problem obviously with humane traps is that someone has to be give the job of going round and checking them for mice so they don't stay in there too long and starve. I can't actually view that thread for some reason, but the sonar idea seems low maintenance and therefore low cost (which is all they will be concerned about). Thanks for the help!

[harpy]

Sorry, you may need to join the group "Animals and animal products" to see that thread -user control panel -> group memberships

[mariana]

My mom uses the sonar things and they seem to work. Though strangely enough I can actually hear the noise they make and it bothers me. Maybe I'm a mouse?!

[Mahk]

Mariana, might you ask her the brand she bought?

Thanks.

[Sluggie]

I've used the humane traps successfully in my house. I baited them with chocolate spread, which seemed to be a big hit with the mice. The drawback in an office environment, is that they shouldn't really be left overnight as the mice get very stressed in the traps. They need to be released as soon as possible. You also need to take them at least half a mile away to ensure that they don't return.

The sonar deterrents don't penetrate solid objects, so they are only useful for protecting specific areas such as food preparation places. You can get some that also have an electro-magnetic element which does penetrate walls and floors. I don't know how effective they are though.

[harpy]

A mouse-phobic friend has one of the electromagnetic things and seems to find it effective. (Yes, she did have mice in her house before she got it )

[journey]

I've found the best way to deal with this is volunteer to be part of the solution.

My work place also was using snap traps. They were stressing over not having enough help to empty the traps of dead mice. But they did have a half dozen live humane traps around. So I told them that snap traps break the skin of the mouse, so having dead mice with broken skin and escaped body fluids was much less sanitary than live traps.

So I volunteered to set the traps myself just before I go home when I know I'll be in the next day and have time first thing in the morning to relocate the little critters. I take them about a mile away, out in the woods or fields to release. No broken skin to spread disease, no dead critters, no mouse damage or droppings in the buildings: we're all happy now.

I've got a chart posted up on my desk labelled "Lives Saved" and I mark the location where found and species of each one I've saved.

The key is, if I hadn't volunteered to be the one to set and empty the traps, it just wouldn't have happened. Also, it's important that only I set the traps - because if somebody else sets them, it might be on a day when I have something going on first thing that I can't get to the traps, and I don't want any accidents.

But it's also important to then go around and plug up ALL the holes. This can be done. People think it's impossible, but it really can be done if you are meticulous. A caulk gun with clear caulk works great - I've completely eliminated more mice from getting in certain areas. I'm told steel wool also works. If you relocate the mice far enough away, they shouldn't come back, but other ones will still come in unless you get the holes blocked up.

I know this all seems like it's the maintenance staff's job, but you may have to do some of it yourself if you want to see it happen. It sounds like you're in a big company, so the size itself may be a challenge, but maybe you could at least start in your own area, and maybe expand from there.

People are starting to know that if they have a mouse problem, I'll take care of it for them. That what they really care about. But it happens to save the critters too, and gives me lots of opportunities to talk about compassion and the sanitation benefits of live trapping, which I do at every chance I get.

[Mahk]

I bought some live traps and although the mechanism seems sound they have failed to catch any mice. They say to use peanut butter as the lure but perhaps the all natural kind I buy without sugar is not to their liking. Maybe Skippy or Peter Pan might work?

Unfortunately, like virtually all mammals, mice aren't lone nomads but rather live in families. When you catch one you are quite likely catching a mother or father who is out gathering food to bring back to the babies at the nest. You are killing animals you just don't see it.

Don't shoot the messenger.

[mogthecat]

Sorry, you may need to join the group "Animals and animal products" to see that thread -user control panel -> group memberships

Thank you - I've done so. Interestingly, people seem divided on whether the sonar deterrents work. Hopefully I can persuade my work they're worth a try.

Journey - thanks for this story! I love the idea of having a chart showing how many lives saved. As you say, it turns a bad situation into a great opportunity to talk to people about the issues. Unfortunately, you're right that I work for a big company and there's no way I'd be allowed to go around blocking up holes, but you've given me some great ideas to go to the facilities department with. Thanks!

Mahk - I hadn't thought of the fact that the mice would be separated from their babies. Thanks for pointing that out. That certainly is a strong argument for giving the sonar deterrent a go. At least then the mice have a chance to relocate themselves more naturally with their babies.

[journey]

Yes, I realize not everyone has the situation I have, but perhaps parts of what works in my situation will work for others too.

I can tell when new mice move in - there's no droppings around at all for a long time, then suddenly there's droppings one day. I figure if I set the traps right away, the critter has not had much time to make the building home - or make a nest or have babies. I was worried that I'd be taking a mouse from its cozy nest and putting it out in a new habitat and stress it out since it'd have to find new shelter, food source etc.

But I figure, if I keep after them, and move them as soon as they come inside, they really haven't had a chance to establish a nest yet. Also, the fact is, if I don't relocate them, our maintenance crew will snap trap them, which is even worse. It's not perfect, but I think there's a much higher chance that more of them are living if I relocate them. (If maintenance kills them, if they did have babies outdoors that they left to come in and seek food, those babies would still die, plus the adult who came indoors). We do the best we can.

[WildWitch]

Could you convince the powers that be that rather than having to pay staff to set traps, remove dead creatures etc that it might be nicer to have a few of those sensory thingy's about the place to prevent them coming in in the first place. I bought an electronic device that mice and rats dont like the sound of, so they just go off somewhere else, it really worked, not had them in the house since. A one off investment might work on them as they probably dont care about the life of the little creatures anyway.

[journey]

We've tried the sonic things and they just didn't work. That was the first thing I thought of too - some people seem to have good luck with them, some just don't.

[mariana]

Mariana, might you ask her the brand she bought?

Thanks.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this, but the brand she has is Sharper Image. It's called the "Mouse Mover." I'm not sure whether it's sonar or electro magnetic but it seems to be working so far (*fingers crossed*).

[Pearl]

The residential home I work in occasionally has a mousey problem but they use traps with poison in them. It always amazes me that they do this because there are people with dementia there who are like 2 year olds (I mean they are into EVERYTHING). I did once ask them and they just shrugged and said "company policy".

[Mahk]

Thanks mariana for the brand she seems successful with.
--------------------------------------------------------------
On a side note I thought I'd pass along some info I once got from the pest control maintenance guy (third party professional exterminator) where I worked once years ago. He told me that the glue traps he placed were not to catch mice/rats in order to reduce their numbers at all. He told me catching one rat out of a colony of hundreds was pretty much worthless. Their real purpose (besides being "show" to the client that mice/rats are indeed being apprehended) was to monitor where they traveled so that he could then strategically place his poison for them to take back to their nests (which the clients are unaware of, in the walls/ back alleys/ nooks and crannies etc).

[journey]

If you use live traps, you can use a somewhat similar strategy - it will usually give you a good idea of where to look for the holes where the mice are getting in so you can plug up the holes, which is critical. If you stop them from coming in, there is no mouse problem, period.

[WildWitch]

If you use live traps, you can use a somewhat similar strategy - it will usually give you a good idea of where to look for the holes where the mice are getting in so you can plug up the holes, which is critical. If you stop them from coming in, there is no mouse problem, period.

There are also ways of making them think twice about coming in, they dislike the smell of pepermint. Use pepermint essential oil and they will just run the other way, also those sonic sound things have worked for me, they stay in the garden now, there happy, im happy and no one gets hurt.

[bradders]

There are also ways of making them think twice about coming in, they dislike the smell of pepermint. Use pepermint essential oil and they will just run the other way, also those sonic sound things have worked for me, they stay in the garden now, there happy, im happy and no one gets hurt.

peppermint makes me run the other way too. Plays hell with my sinuses, hurts like hell.

[Mahk]

I tried both peppermint oil (natural organic extract/ "essential peppermint oil") and ammonia once (actually some ammonia based glass cleaner). Neither worked. I think the problem is they already knew from previous visits that past that yucky peppermint smelling corridor was an all you could eat gourmet buffet (my kitchen) so they held their noses and proceeded onward. Either that or they had colds and their sinuses were blocked.

Another possibility is that one has to use so much ammonia/peppermint that a human wouldn't venture into the kitchen either! Yes I was applying the stuff to the floor but I don't really know how smelly it got down at the floor level or how long it lasted for. I could easily smell it from the standing human position but it may have dissipated over night. Maybe large pools of it the size of dinner plates rechecked for evaporation every few hours [this may be the human deterrence amount as well, though]

[Sluggie]

When I had a mouse using the underside of my fridge as a public loo, I scattered cloves and rosemary over the area after I had cleaned up all the poop. There's been no sight or sound of the mouse since.

[eeplox]

My father has a pest control firm, and he has "live captures" available to his clients, but none of them choose that option because of the added cost (every time a rodent is captured, someone has to go back to the location and collect the trap). They're only interested in poison.

Everything in this civilization comes down to money, sadly.

[Mahk]

My father has a pest control firm, and he has "live captures" available to his clients, but none of them choose that option because of the added cost (every time a rodent is captured, someone has to go back to the location and collect the trap).

Out of curiosity, if a client of his does choose" live capture", what becomes of the caught pests? Are they re-homed and if so where?

[eeplox]

Well they're rats or mice, so there's no rehoming - obviously he doesn't poison animals like cats, those are always captured alive.

The rodents are released in the forest, while feral cats are taken to the government shelter as per regulations, and usually euthanized on arrival. That's the government for you.

I've personally raised 4 kittens that I managed to get to slip through the cracks, and found homes for 2 dogs he was called to remove (since I already have 3 rescued dogs).

[pie]

would the building allow a cat to live there, and before i get shouted at i don't mean to kill the mice, often just the scent of a cat is enough to make mice find a new home, i used to get loads of rats and mice coming into my henhut but now i've got a cat they've disappeared and not into his tummy i'm sure as on the odd occasion that he does catch something he doesn't eat it but leaves it for me to remove!

[Quantum Mechanic]

Thanks mariana for the brand she seems successful with.
--------------------------------------------------------------
On a side note I thought I'd pass along some info I once got from the pest control maintenance guy (third party professional exterminator) where I worked once years ago. He told me that the glue traps he placed were not to catch mice/rats in order to reduce their numbers at all. He told me catching one rat out of a colony of hundreds was pretty much worthless. Their real purpose (besides being "show" to the client that mice/rats are indeed being apprehended) was to monitor where they traveled so that he could then strategically place his poison for them to take back to their nests (which the clients are unaware of, in the walls/ back alleys/ nooks and crannies etc).

Yeah, when I was a child and we had mice or rats, we placed poison where they would frequent them, so it would get taken back to the main nest or whatnot.

WARNING HORRIBLE DESCRIPTIVE THING ABOUT SUFFERING TO FOLLOW:
---
Then what I saw was so horrible that I became disgusted at what we had done, because we later on saw a baby rat that had eaten some of the poison which was enough to make the rat dreadfully sick but not enough to make it die right away, and so one eye was bulging and changing color. The rat's breathing was irregular, gasping isn't even the right word, and couldn't walk well, and both my dad and me felt so guilty about this that we stayed with it during the last few hours of tortured breaths as it suffered and died.
---




So I made a committment there even though I had had this terrible phobia of rats develop despite my having had rats as pets in earlier childhood, that I would not condone the use of poison or other intentional killing of the rats (hypocritical at the time as I was still a meat eater, but I did believe in the philosophy and ethics of at least vegetarianism at the time, though I didn't put it into practice ).

[journey]

good news - our maintenance guy just told me he's found some kind of new sonic device that he's willing to try (as long as management agrees to buy them). So hopefully these newer things will work.

Nevertheless, since I've relocated a number of mice (at least a mile away), not a single one has come back in months, even though it's now winter.

[Charlotte]

Do those sonic devices work outside? The place I volunteer has loads of wild rats which eat the rescued animals' food (we have raccoons, skunks etc and food is scattered) and gnaw holes in everything. Would the sonic devices upset other mammals and birds too?

At the moment rats are shot or occasionally eaten by a resident. Getting them to bugger off but not get killed would be nice!

[bradders]

you could in theory use them in well covered, well protected areas outside and create a sort of shield with them but you have to have one about every 4metres along the entirety of the perimeter. Most models will cause problems for most rodents unfortunately not just rats and mice.
As they use very high frequencies that just bounce off/ get blocked by surfaces it is difficult to afford the devices the protection they need from the elements and at the same time allow them sufficiently open and clear space to work.
I am yet to see a model that is marketed for use outside that discriminates appropriately sadly. They tend to repel everything except people and birds.

[Mahk]

Here is a teenager repeller for outside use I believe, should anyone care:
http://www.compoundsecurity.co.uk/

[bradders]

body shop were using them for a while, so whenever I went past (23 years old btw) it was unpleasant.

[mariana]

I am yet to see a model that is marketed for use outside that discriminates appropriately sadly. They tend to repel everything except people and birds.

They repel this person (at least the indoor one my mom has). I can't even stand to be in the same room as the thing. Hmm, maybe she got it on purpose to keep me out of her office so I don't bother her while she's working.

[Mahk]

Younger people like you can hear very high frequencies that older folk like me and your mom can't. I'm curious to hear you describe the sound. Is it a constant "beep" , for instance, or a warbling tone? A series of beeps? Or do you just have a sense of "I don't like being here" yet you can't really attribute it to something you hear, per say?

[bradders]

if you can hear it it's broken. When mouse repellers are damaged, old or the power supply isn't quite right then you can hear a high pitched squeeking. I can hea the one in my back bedroom but not the two in the living room, the two in the kitchen, the one in airing cupboard, the study, the hall or the two in my bedroom. If you give the one you van hear a knock it shut's up for a bit though. Dampness in can affect them too.

[mariana]

if you can hear it it's broken. When mouse repellers are damaged, old or the power supply isn't quite right then you can hear a high pitched squeeking. I can hea the one in my back bedroom but not the two in the living room, the two in the kitchen, the one in airing cupboard, the study, the hall or the two in my bedroom. If you give the one you van hear a knock it shut's up for a bit though. Dampness in can affect them too.

Hmm, it might just be broken, but it's been like that since right after she bought it. Though maybe it was just malfunctioning to begin with. The strange thing is my mom has really good hearing (better than mine) but can't hear it.

Younger people like you can hear very high frequencies that older folk like me and your mom can't. I'm curious to hear you describe the sound. Is it a constant "beep" , for instance, or a warbling tone? A series of beeps? Or do you just have a sense of "I don't like being here" yet you can't really attribute it to something you hear, per say?

It's more like my ears sort of feel itchy when I go in the room, and then if I concentrate really hard it's like I can sort of hear a high-pitched, warbling tone. If I stay in the room long enough I start to get a bit of a headache, but I usually leave after a few minutes, or turn off the device.

[bradders]

it could be the power supply in your home. If the supply phasing is out or the voltage isn't right that could cause it, as could a hearing that can pick up extraordinarily high frequencies. It's not no much an issue of how good your hearing is but what your hearing range (spectrum not distance) is.

[mariana]

it could be the power supply in your home. If the supply phasing is out or the voltage isn't right that could cause it, as could a hearing that can pick up extraordinarily high frequencies. It's not no much an issue of how good your hearing is but what your hearing range (spectrum not distance) is.

Hmm, maybe it's the power supply. I really doubt I have an extraordinary hearing range!