Insects...

[tails4wagging]

hello, Manish, where have you been?. Missed you


back to spiders, it was said on tv some while ago. This will sound horrendous!!, that everyone swallows 8 spiders in their lifetime , during sleep!!!!


I never kill anything, I used to be scared of wasps, but I tolerate them now.Its been a slow process, but I allow them near me and if I am sitting outside with some sweet drink or food, I allow them to drop down to get their share and then they fly off!!


My old dad used to say to us as children. 'they are more scared of you, than you are of them'. I always keep this in mind.

[indianvegan]

hi Tails, i was busy in my profession in between, I arranged one exhibition on Vegan life and one film show( showed film on animal cruelties) amongst one group of 500 students in a nearby place.

Nice quote---'they are more scared of you, than you are of them'. ( Insects )


Manish Jain

[tails4wagging]

Manish just got onto your website.

Very interesting and humbling to read. As vegans we have good grounding to become Jains havent we??.

I can recognise lots of these reasons you have mentioned in the sanctity of life.

I pick up worms struggling on a path. I usually get comments as 'urgh, I dont know how you can pick them up, or derision and hilarity saying I am mad!!.

I find I do believe in the phyosophy of jain but how to adapt it in modern Britain is another thing!!.

I have never meditated, I dont relax enough!!

What is the way of burial in a jain philosophy?.
I am going to have a green burial with a oak tree on top, return to
earth, so to speak. Is this what Jain do?

You must be a very gentle person Manish?.

[eve]

Hello manish, good to see you back again.
By the way, my calendar this year is from Pune, India by Beauty Without Cruelty. Today when I turned the page to May, there's a photo of two white geese, and the quote refers to the game of badminton, and says that "16 feathers from the left wing make a single shuttlecock - Badminton very bad to kill geese for your sport".

[indianvegan]

Hi eve. Yes,BWC, is very good organisation here, and they are seriously working against cruelties against birds and animals, though they are not explicitly adovating Veganism but still they suggest to buy Vegan and Vegetarian products.

Vegan forum is my most favourite place to stay.I can not even think to leave this forum.

Manish

[Cal]

Vegan forum is my most favourite place to stay.I can not even think to leave this forum.
Manish

Too true, Manish!!

[indianvegan]

Manish just got onto your website.

Very interesting and humbling to read. As vegans we have good grounding to become Jains havent we??.

I can recognise lots of these reasons you have mentioned in the sanctity of life.

I pick up worms struggling on a path. I usually get comments as 'urgh, I dont know how you can pick them up, or derision and hilarity saying I am mad!!.

I find I do believe in the phyosophy of jain but how to adapt it in modern Britain is another thing!!.

I have never meditated, I dont relax enough!!

What is the way of burial in a jain philosophy?.
I am going to have a green burial with a oak tree on top, return to
earth, so to speak. Is this what Jain do?

You must be a very gentle person Manish?.

Thanks for visiting my website.

Yes, as Vegans do have very good ground to adopt Jainism as their way of life.

We Jain here use Electricity/Woods for burning dead bodies.

Well, tough to put myself as "gentleman". But, I believe that all gentelmen/ladies do have two dogs inside them and one of them is very BAD.
I mean Good Dog and Bad Dog both remain inside of everone.And Bad Dog comes out anytime,anyday!

Love and Peace.

Manish Jain

[John]

hi Tails, i was busy in my profession in between, I arranged one exhibition on Vegan life and one film show( showed film on animal cruelties) amongst one group of 500 students in a nearby place.

That's great!


CharT, I read your post and I would love to discuss this with you but I'm going to to refrain. You see, I don't believe that your concern about insects comes from compassion, but rather you are looking for an excuse to eat meat. If any vegans would like to discuss the morality of killing termites and mosquitoes, let's talk. No offence, I would love to have a friend who ate no meat except for shellfish, but this is a vegan forum.

[Pilaf]

As a vegan, I attempt to avoid killing animals if at all possible. But.. what if one's house has been invaded by termites, wasps or other such insects and the only way to avoid damage to one's property or one's self is to have them humanely exterminated? This raises a question of morality. Any thoughts?

[feline01]

We did experience a small wasp invasion and it was in our kids' room! We choose to just to go for a catch and release program, husband covered them with a cup and moved them outdoors.

If we had a house, I don't know what I'd do if I found out we had termites. That's a tough one. I hope one day I have a house so I can ponder that question more seriously .

[Pilaf]

We have a serious termite problem, and it's beginning to cause property damage. I'm well read on termite biology and there's no way to remove an entire colony. The only way is to exterminate by getting poison back to the queen. It is killing, but in this case I see no other way, really.

[feline01]

I didn't read too much into the website but here's a link for natural termite removal.

Hope that helps

[Pilaf]

Thanks much.. the nemotode solution seems best for my situation, as much of the colony is underground. If I introduce a natural predator for them, their removal will be natural and environmentally friendly.Thanks for the tip.

[Stu]

Since the weather got really hot, a LOT of flies have somehow found their way into our flat. It's really getting on my tits.

Do any of you monkeys have any good tips on getting rid of the blighters? Humanely I mean, of course.

My flatmate suggested squirting them with water so they can't fly, then getting them on a bit of paper or something and putting them outside. But I'd rather not do that. I thought about maybe getting a big net that you get for fish tanks and scooping them out of the air before putting them outside... Oh, I dunno!

HELP ME.

Maybe there's some product on the market for deterring them... Some sort of odour they don't like, or something?

[soyabean]

I don't know if it would work with flies, but one way that people studying dragonflies get a close look at them without killing them is to use a weak solution of water and washing up liquid to spray them in mid air. It stops them being able to fly for a while, but as soon as the solution evaporates, they can take off again.

[Evilfluffbunny]

How about burning citronella essential oil or candles?

Other, citrusy scents seem to work too as I've put lemon, orange, lemongrass etc into my oil burner and it's had the same effect.

It seems to keep bugs away, but I don't know if it would be enough to get rid of the bugs you've already got.

[cookie]

My nan has used a plant called lemon geranium for years to keep away flies. She lives next to a field full of cows and I never see flies in the house! Just keep a pot of it on the windowsill.

[Kevster]

What about keeping your flat clean? Shockingly we don't yet have a fly problem in our house. A few fruit flies appeared a week ago but since the compost went out, it has been pretty quiet.

[Aurora]

A friend of mine gave me a plant that is supposed to keep flies away. Mind you, she called it the fly plant and it died after about a week so I'm not much use really am I

[Realfood Mary]

Citronella spray any curtains every morning, and grow peppermint in pots on the sill. The scents mentioned on this thread work very well. Peppermint also keeps out rodents.

It might hurt the flies to spray them, so I think your instinct not to do it was correct.

Glad I am not the only one who worries about flies! I have that creepy human thing where I instinctively hate them. Which isn't their fault... It is good that you are another person who doesn't want to hurt them even though they "get on your tits!" I know the feeling...

Mary

[indianvegan]

well,

Repel Flies Naturally More Pest Control Solutions
by Annie B. Bond, Executive Producer, Care2 Healthy Living Channels, author of "Better Basics for the Home" (Three Rivers Press, 1999).

Flies are such a nuisance! If you're tired of having the pesky little critters buzzing around your house--but you don't want to resort to using harmful chemicals--check out these easy, great ideas. They use kitchen cupboard ingredients and they really work!

Find out how to get rid of flies safely and naturally.



Simple Solution:

Here are a few hands-on methods:

Keeping flies away is often a matter of cleanliness. Remove compost to the compost pile, and don't leave food uncovered.

Invest in window screens and screen doors and encourage your children to close screen doors quickly when they enter or leave the house.

Use flyswatters. Children enjoy this. Make it a contest to see who can swat the most.

Encourage the spiders in your house: they eat flies.

Hang pomanders on doors: citrus peel is a great repellent.

Dust the bottoms of your trash cans with borax.

Place potted basil plants in infested areas.

Homemade Fly Paper

INGREDIENTS

1/4 cup corn syrup
1/2 cup sugar
1. Cut 4 or 5 long strips about 2 inches wide from brown paper bags. Mix the ingredients in a bowl and spread it on the strips with a knife. Hang the strips over a bowl to catch drips.

Hanging Herbal Repellents

Hang a pine bough in the kitchen: flies dislike pine oil.

Whole or ground cloves in a small muslin teabag make a good fly-repelling hanging sachet.


Manish

[Evilfluffbunny]

What about keeping your flat clean? Shockingly we don't yet have a fly problem in our house. A few fruit flies appeared a week ago but since the compost went out, it has been pretty quiet.

That's true, but it's not like you have to be living in filth before bugs come into the house. We had flies in the kitchen practically every day last summer (those weird, fat bodied ones that hover everywhere) even though we keep the rubbish outside and all our food is kept in the pantry and fridge.

[Kevster]

I would suggest that Stu posts a picture of various parts of his flat for us to look at, so we can decide for ourselves, however, i reckon he'd be slapping on the old rubber gloves, getting on his hands and knees and giving his place the damn good scrub it deserves.

[pixeequeen]

He he Stu you dirty dongo, you are officially the grubby guy of the board. Ew!

[Brownie]

Use flyswatters. Children enjoy this. Make it a contest to see who can swat the most.

Homemade Fly Paper

INGREDIENTS

1/4 cup corn syrup
1/2 cup sugar
1. Cut 4 or 5 long strips about 2 inches wide from brown paper bags. Mix the ingredients in a bowl and spread it on the strips with a knife. Hang the strips over a bowl to catch drips.

That doesn't seem very nice. Couldn't that hurt the fly??

I would recommend the peppermint plants and spraying the house with citrus--it not only keeps away the flies, but it makes your house smell good, too!

Oh, and Skin So Soft lotion by Avon surprisingly keeps the mosquitoes away. When I had it on, they were all after my mother, not me.

[Evilfluffbunny]

I hate fly paper, we had them where I used to work and I'd take them down, but they always got put back up again. It's horrible seeing the poor things trying to pull themselves off the glue but just getting more and more stuck. I hate fly swatters too, but at least they're better than the paper.

Luckily I've never had a huge bug problem in the house, so it's easy enough to just catch them and chuck them out the window.

[Realfood Mary]

So would fly swatters! Why would you want to "make a game of it" and encourage your children to kill flies?

Mary

[Tigerlily]

In the summer, we have a wasp infestation. They buzz around and crawl all over the windows. Totally freaks me out. Before I would kill them but this year, I think I might scoop them up in a cup and a plat piece of cardboard and take them outside.

[Stu]

Wow - so many replies in such a short space of time! Thanks folks!

Cos I'm a big soft wuss, I'm not prepared to do anything nasty to the flies. So swatting, fly paper etc are not an option for me. Also, I wouldn't consider using (even weak) washing-up liquid. That seems pretty grim to me.

And Kevster: I couldn't tell if you were being an arse with me or not... You seemed to just assume that my flat is minging, but of course you might have just been jiving me... I couldn't tell.

My flat is generally clean and tidy (I'm a bit anally retentive about my environment, hence this thread). But my guinea pigs live in the front room, and there's inevitably a certain amount of piggy poo in their area. Maybe that's what's attracting the flies...

I like the idea of using repellents. I'll try to get hold of some of this citronella stuff (where would I get my hands on that?), or try some other citrus-based approach. Also, I like the idea of a lemon geranium plant (thanks Cookie).

Thanks again people!

[Evilfluffbunny]

Stu, you can get pure citronella oil in places like Holland & Barratt (sp?) and most places that sell oils. I think you can get the candles in garden centres but they might just be those massive outdoor torch type things.

Incense works too, but again, it's maybe just those giant garden ones you can get, I'm not sure.

[Kevster]

[Realfood Mary]

My flat is generally clean and tidy (I'm a bit anally retentive about my environment, hence this thread). But my guinea pigs live in the front room, and there's inevitably a certain amount of piggy poo in their area. Maybe that's what's attracting the flies...

Yay for Guinea Pigs!!!!

We have two, and yes, their poops can attract flies, so I think therein lies your problem. Now I know you have guinea pigs living with you, a word of advice - guineas hate peppermint too! So stick to the citronella, and the geranium plant. Otherwise the guineas will be a wee bit miserable.

How many guineas live with you?

Mary

[Kumem]

So would fly swatters! Why would you want to "make a game of it" and encourage your children to kill flies?

Mary

That says it all. Surely you should want to teach children to respect all creatures, whether you like them or not. They are the next generation of potential vegans after all

BTW those pics are adorable - so cute

Liz

[tails4wagging]

I have a bead curtain up at my back door, that helps slightly, If I do get any in I open the nearest window and they usually go out themselves. Sometimes with a little help from me.

Becky tries to catch them and eats them!!!!.

[Nivvie]

Flies are my nemesis!!

When I get to the final level of my life, I'm going to have to fight a really big fly to determine my position in the afterlife.
I have a page of horrible fly/maggot stories, which I'll spare you.

I agree that hurting them is not nice, but they are VERY disgusting.

They can smell a dead body from over a mile away, so when a door opens at work they charge in. Sometimes you see them hanging around outside, waiting for an opening to come in and maggotise the place.

Like most work places, the flies end up electrocuted, but when I had a problem at home (bought a house near a maggot farm, they didn't mention that on Up My Street) we used those vapour things.
They are toxic, but if they get out in time, they survive. Just having them up made less flies come in, they seem to be able to navigate their way out of a window when they have to.

Door cutains are also a great idea, as are window screens. I tightly fitted a net voile thing to a frame and used to pop it up on the window sill when the window was open. If I'd done that earlier, I might have saved a small part of my sanity.

[Mozbee]

Stu, if it means you can give a warm and loving home to those adorable G'piggies then maybe you have to accept that they come with flies included! They look very happy.

[antman]

I never kill insects or 'creepie crawlies'. Well, obviously I do, because everyone does just by moving. But I never deliberately kill any. Heck, I feel bad about putting spiders outside, though I have to due to my Mum's phobia.

And I'd never, ever kill ants. *Points at his name*

[antman]

AHIMSA--->"Dynamic harmlessness"

I am very happy to read all the posting about saving lives of each Soul.
I agree that each living thing on this plantet has itw own "Soul".
I strongly believe this.
There is lots of talk about this kind of Ahimsa in the JAINISM . I recommend you guys who are really interested to know about Ahimsa in depth, to read more kinds of "himsa" ( hims is sanskrit word; which means "to hurt"). In Jainism, they have classified living things in to 5 categories depending on the kind of senses these living things do have.

Like for ex. "Mountain,Mines,Plants,trees,Rivers...." have been classified "ekindriya jeev" ( one who has "touching sense"), so in other way Jainism considers mining,cutting of trees,plants,leaves as NOT GOOD and consider it as "HIMSA". And it is said that one who is involved directly/indirectly in these kinds of "HIMSA" creates bad karma for oneself.
In nutshell, it has been suggested to save all nature's creation.

Hurting any living creatrues/things can not be classified as "Ahimsa". Even walking on grass/lawn is very hurtful act.

Still many many ppl who are practicing/following Jain philosophy( generally people call it as religion but it is a philosophy) are not avoiding dairy/leather/woolen/silk...

With regards.

Manish Jain

Apologies for the double post, but I just wanted to point out that Jainism is the base for a lot of my beliefs, or has been for the last few years. I could never follow it exactly or as a 'religion', because I don't follow any guidelines totally like that and I despise all kinds of religion. But I have my own beliefs and philosophies on life, and Jainism has had a place in there.

[Korn]

Some people say 'insects are killed in modern agriculture (when growing plants), so vegans are already responsible for killing insects!'

PFC commented this in another thread:

But that is not the point - as said elsewhere, insects are, unfortunately, killed for crops fed to animals, so being Vegan does least harm.

Precisely.

If people are concerned with insects that are being killed when growing vegetables, this would be an argument for a different way of growing plants, maybe collecting them instead, and/or a more primitive livestyle, not an argument pro eating animals or killing insects.

When it comes to insects, the situation among non-vegans is pretty similar to the seal-debate. Meat eaters are often against killing beautiful animals with big brown eyes, because they give them some sort of pleasure; they look cute.

A few days ago, a beautiful, exotic, shining dark green insect I've never seen before came in the window and left again. There are also some beautiful butterflies around the house these days. Maybe non-vegans who say 'I have no problems with killing insects' wouldn't say that if a beautiful butterfly would come flying, because the center is in the I.

That non-vegans 'have no problems' with killing insects or fish or mice or birds or calves, is not relevant from a vegan point of view. They seem to miss that we aren't really interested in whether they have a problem with it, the point is that the insects/fish/mice/birds/calves have a problem with it.

[Mozbee]

Who'd want to purposefully kill the creatures who inspired John, Paul, George & Ringo or Ziggy's bandmembers!

[Kumem]

I really like some insects. I think ants are great (not that I would want an infestation at home); I love watching them go about their business, working in such an orderly fashion. I am forever rescuing them from my cats.
I also love spiders, but my bf is petrified of them and makes me put them outside. I don't like doing that because it's cold and they come in because they like the warmth.

[Mozbee]

Spiders are beautiful and they create beautiful webs too.

Respect to spiders!

[sugarmouse]

i respect all life and will go out of my way to not kill ANYTHING no matter how small or insignificant it may be


i may be weird.i nearly got run over once tryin to get a bee out of the road.

[Mozbee]

What a vegan!

[Kumem]

i respect all life and will go out of my way to not kill ANYTHING no matter how small or insignificant it may be


i may be weird.i nearly got run over once tryin to get a bee out of the road.

You go girl

[realfood neil]

i respect all life and will go out of my way to not kill ANYTHING no matter how small or insignificant it may be


i may be weird.i nearly got run over once tryin to get a bee out of the road.

We love you.

[essence_uk]

Some people say 'insects are killed in modern agriculture (when growing plants), so vegans are already responsible for killing insects!'

Hopefully vegan organic food will take hold because we also either consume pesticides/chemical covered food and/or organic (blood guts, bones, slaughterhouse animal manure fertilised) fruit and vegetables as it stands.

Support the vegan organic movement: http://www.veganorganic.net/

[essence_uk]

Who'd want to purposefully kill the creatures who inspired John, Paul, George & Ringo or Ziggy's bandmembers!

Hmmm how big exactly are Spiders From Mars? An infestation of those in your house could push vegan ethics to the limit.

[ccgyrl]

ooh, i love bugs, i love spiders, and bees, too. but i've never been stung by a bee and if i were allergic i might feel differently about catching them and putting them outside.

i'm curious has anyone with an INFESTATION of cockroaches found a reasonably fast vegan way to get rid of them?? i mean when you find them in all your food, like when you live in the city and your neighbors have them. i don't have this problem but a few days ago my boyfriend had the biggest one i'd ever seen--i swear, i thought it was a mouse at first -- strolling across the floor. *shudder* ohmigod it was SO BIG. but that got me thinking about what i would do if i did have that problem 'cause if i were nonveg i'd have sent him out for boric acid right away. i literally can't deal, when i was a kid we lived in a poor area, in a rowhouse, and i have such horrible memories of them running up on the table during mealtimes... i was afraid to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. literally thousands of them.

oddly, roaches in the woods don't freak me out though i guess those are different kinds of roaches. it's just when they're living in kitchens and bathrooms. i always wondered if this is because roaches have an odor and maybe i've smelled that odor and then gotten sick from eating food that roaches were in--apparently the odor is from their excrement. god knows i can't eat any food that remotely has that odor (it's similar to the smell of a spice, some of you will know exactly what i'm talking about but i don't wanna gross the rest of you out)

just thinking about all this is making me itch.

[rantipole]

For the most part, I don't kill bugs. I have a few exceptions. One is centipedes. They bite and are somewhat venomous. They could hurt my cat or other pets. So, I do kill them if they come in the house. I don't bother the ones that I see outside. Actually, I don't hurt any bugs outdoors. I'm bothered by the fact so many die on my car windshield when driving at night. It's depressing.

The other exception are the insects I feed to my other pets. I have a few small lizards and a pink-toe tarantula. They are obligate insectivores. They only eat food if it is moving. So, I buy them crickets. The crickets are well taken care of and seem to be happy, up until the moment they are eaten.

I hope that isn't too gruesome for you folks.

Cheers,
rant