Last Words

[messiers31st]

I am at my wits end. I haven't touched a meat or meat by-product for four years, and have been vegan for two years. I have the utmost resect and devout belief in the vegan philosophy--that is to say non violence towards all sentient beings, respect for the beauty and abundance of natural resources around us, and the ideal that as human beings (moral agents) we have the cognitive abilities to discern right from wrong--and therefore a moral responsibility to do so in regards to how we liveo ur lives.

Since becoming vegan, there hasn't been a single day since I haven't struggled to make ends meet. It seems more like a DIET than a lifestyle. Calorie counting just to make sure im eating enough to stay alive, reading an infinite amount of labels, using a variety of different supplements and vitamins to ensure I stay at the proper weight and am not lacking vital nutrients...

I have serious, serious doubts about whether or not veganism is feasible for the human body. I thought I'd be the last person on earth to say this. The amount of time, effort, and money spent cooking for myself and scrounging for food scraps in supermarkets and convenient stores when away from my kitchen--it's just not natural. It's just not right that the unhealthiest omnivore (frequenting Taco Bell, McDonalds, pizza) looks and feels healthier than me, whose ENTIRE LIFE now revolves around a single ideal. I understand that the internal condition of our bodies is a different story, and that the longevity enjoyed by vegans is a testament to the benefits of the philosophy, but I'm turning to you for advice.

This is my last call for help. I don't think I can stomach the idea of eating meat again, even after being raised as your atypical American (cheeseburgers, pasta, and hot dogs). But I cannot stand feeling malnourished and anorexic anymore. Do not respond with "oh you're not doing it right"--I've read every post on every forum, talked to experts, and put 110% into it EVERYDAY. Have any of you had serious faith shaking moments like this? Did any of you revert back to omnivore status and find yourselves healthier? Not healthier? Too guilty?

HELP!!!

[whalespace]

I don't want to sound glib. Maybe you need a holiday. Do you know any friendly healthy vegans who might cook for you for a week or so?

I've been vegan for years... sometimes I swallow a bit of the splash, nothing to get too upset about.
I'm just off to sort myself a few swims....three thousand metres these days.

[cobweb]

i think that it can be MUCH cheaper living vegan - if you want it to be - than being an omnivore.

how expensive and difficult is it, really, to cook yourself a baked potato with some red lentils (for example), and make a lovely green salad to go with it?.You could have porridge for breakfast (oatmeal) which is very cheap, easy, and nourishing, and sandwiches for your lunch, or soup, which you could easily make in batches and keep.

As for the non food stuff, it's easy to find cheap vegan friendly soap and shampoo bars which last for ages, synthetic shoes can be bought cheaply, and there are home remedies you can make for pretty much anything .

I am far from a perfect cook or housekeeper and i am living on a tiny budget most of the time, and i have trouble keeping my weight down. I've been vegan for around 10 years and vegetarian since i was a teenager, and am in good physical health.

Have you been checked out by a doctor?. What sort of foods do you generally eat? .

[Manzana]

I agree. Take it easy.

I have no doubts that I feel A LOT healthier than when i ate meat. When I started being a vegetarian (not a vegan at that point), I ate fish very occassionally because my body had cravings. The same happened when i turned vegan but this time with dairy products...

I no longer have those cravings (and have not had them for years)...

I would relax your "Calorie counting just to make sure im eating enough to stay alive, reading an infinite amount of labels, using a variety of different supplements and vitamins to ensure I stay at the proper weight and am not lacking vital nutrients..." to a simpler rule "Eat when you are hungry. Stop eating when you are not hungry"

Plus, stop taking supplements. you probably only need some B12 which happens to be in most cereals (and perhaps Iodine and Vitamin D, the latter if you dont live in a sunny place)

PS. The unhealthiest omnivore looks much worse than your avatar picture...

I am not trying to judge but if you are worried about being a bit skinny (i presume that is what you mean by looking anorexic?), start doing some weight training and exercise more, that is what brings out a healthy body... Works for all vegans i know...

[messiers31st]

@ cobweb

Where are you living? Animal-friendly toothpaste, soaps, body washes, etc. are 2x as expensive as the mass-produced, major-label brands such as Colgate, Dial, etc. Anything organic/environmentally friendly is inevitably more expensive because of production costs and lack of serious demand. My synthetic leather work shoes cost me $116. I could have bought better-looking imitation leather shoes at Payless for 1/2 as much. I have no health insurance.

@ Manzana

This isn't about cravings. It's about sustainability of my own body. I was already fed up with looking "anorexic" in 2006 and began a weight training regimen, which I still utilize religiously. Sure, I'm cut and probably have like 4% body fat, but the calorie-counting I refer to is a direct result of taking on the weight training. It's not healthy to expend more energy than you take in. I just can't eat that much lentils, legumes, beans, greens. It seems like it's a 4:1 ratio in terms of mass needed when we'er comparing a vegan bodybuilder's diet to an omnivore body builder. Shit, have you SEEN the Youtube videos of the vegan bodybuilders? They look amazing and eat great, but they have their own personal cooks or wives because they have to eat SO MUCH. And as far as the eat only when you're hungry rule -- I'm ALWAYS hungry. For the last 3 years. And nothing sounds good because it's all bland or requires 45 min + to prepare.

As you can tell, I'm frustrated, but not completely ready to give up. I really appreciate your responses, even if it is just telling me I'm stupid and I need to try harder.

[harpy]

Just a couple more suggestions

1) Have you got, or could you get, access to a freezer? Then you can cook several days' worth of food at once and freeze portions. Otherwise, you can keep leftovers in the fridge for a few days but obviously you would get less variety that way. There's no reason food should be bland even if you prepare it fast; that's down to seasonings and so on.

2) If you haven't already, you could contact one of the vegan bodybuilders' associations for menu suggestions. They seem to have ideas on their websites that don't sound too labour-intensive e.g. http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=article_whatieat.

[cobweb]

Hi, I live in the Orkney Isles, north of Scotland (where everything is expensive and veganism very unusual! ). I buy toiletries, soaps, etc, either online, e.g quite often there are vegan sellers on eBay - or locally where possible. I do spend around £3 on a tube of toothpaste, but it lasts me 4 months or more. I buy pure vegetable Indian made soap locally at around £2 a bar, that lasts me a couple of months. I don't think that is a lot considering that the cheap alternatives are usually quite nasty for your skin. Mind you, sometimes when i'm really hard up for money i do buy the cheap nasties.

I think maybe you are just trying too hard - if you can only afford the cheap synthetic shoes from Payless, why not get them?. What's the point in worrying about every little thing and then giving up on veganism altogether because you find it too difficult? .

Just do the best you can, avoid buying, using or consuming anything you know to contain animal products and avoid supporting animal cruelty *whenever possible and practical*. No-one is going to come round and inspect what you have and give you marks out of ten, just relax and know that you are trying to do something special .

I'm more concerned with your problems keeping weight on, are you sure you don't have any health problems that might be keeping you thin?. Do you have a good appetite?.

[Manzana]

@ cobweb


@ Manzana

This isn't about cravings. It's about sustainability of my own body. I was already fed up with looking "anorexic" in 2006 and began a weight training regimen, which I still utilize religiously. Sure, I'm cut and probably have like 4% body fat, but the calorie-counting I refer to is a direct result of taking on the weight training. It's not healthy to expend more energy than you take in. I just can't eat that much lentils, legumes, beans, greens. It seems like it's a 4:1 ratio in terms of mass needed when we'er comparing a vegan bodybuilder's diet to an omnivore body builder. Shit, have you SEEN the Youtube videos of the vegan bodybuilders? They look amazing and eat great, but they have their own personal cooks or wives because they have to eat SO MUCH. And as far as the eat only when you're hungry rule -- I'm ALWAYS hungry. For the last 3 years. And nothing sounds good because it's all bland or requires 45 min + to prepare.

As you can tell, I'm frustrated, but not completely ready to give up. I really appreciate your responses, even if it is just telling me I'm stupid and I need to try harder.

I dont think anyone was trying to tell you that you are stupid.

If you are on a weight training regime, you might not be eating enough fat and that is why you feel like you have to eat so much "bland" food to ingest the right amount of calories.... Sadly, that is the nature of weight training/body building diets. I used to do that too when i was training!

The issue here is whether you are frustrated because you are not eating enough calories/you are always hungry or rather, because your body does not look the way you want. Both are different issues.

Crisps (or fries as they are called in the US!), Avocados, coconut milk, olive oil, peanut butter, nuts etc, will give you a huge amount of calories (much more than any animal derived food) in not very much quantity... but if you are training for body building competitions, they are not recommended... Personally, I would relax about the way your body looks and stick to eating when you are hungry (and if you are hungry all the time, then eat all the time till you are not!)

I found an interesting link about Mac Danzig's diet (MMA fighter) that you might like to read:

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogID=352971310

[snivelingchild]

Where are you living? Animal-friendly toothpaste, soaps, body washes, etc. are 2x as expensive as the mass-produced, major-label brands such as Colgate, Dial, etc. Anything organic/environmentally friendly is inevitably more expensive because of production costs and lack of serious demand. My synthetic leather work shoes cost me $116. I could have bought better-looking imitation leather shoes at Payless for 1/2 as much. I have no health insurance.

I'm sorry I don't have much advice on the food part, but you can save money on household products with some creative choices. You can use baking soda for toothpaste, vinegar for cleaning supplies, and a bottle of liquid Dr. Bronners can go a long way since it's so strong. (You only need a couple drops for body or hair, and in fact you can use it on your teeth, for the laundry, any household cleaning, and doing dishes.) I also used to scan the clearance section of Payless regularly.

Is there any way you can cut back on the exercise? Maybe your body needs a break from burning so many calories?

[fiamma]

Could you post your stats and a typical day's menu? That might give us an idea of where you're going wrong.

On the other hand, no doctor ordered you to follow this way of life. You chose it, and really it's up to you to make it work. It's not necessary to buy expensive processed foods to be vegan, and staples like legumes, rice, pasta and bread are not expensive. Fruit and veggies can be bought cheaper at farmers markets and the like.

At the end of the day you have to follow your heart and do what's right for you. The people above have given you some great advice. I myself find it difficult to find vegan friendly soaps and the like, and do use supermarket brands, which at least are not tested on animals.

Maybe you're trying to do too much too quickly? Ease up on yourself, try reading "Becoming Vegan" by Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina, and get yourself some cookbooks which have easy and filling recipes using simple ingredients; try "Vegan Feasts" by Rose Elliot or any of the books by Sarah Kramer - "La Dolce Vegan" is great for simple, fast meals.

Also check out the Vegan Fitness forum, there are some great people on there.

Good luck with it all.

[sandra]

I have serious, serious doubts about whether or not veganism is feasible for the human body.

Veganism is very feasible for the human body, as most vegans will tell you, they are healthier being vegan, myself included. I know this doesn't help you, but I think your problem is to do with something else. Have you seen a doctor about your inability to put on weight?
As everyone has said before it is not that difficult to eat a wide, varied, healthy diet being vegan and it can be as cheap or expensive as you want it to be.
I cook for myself and my two vegan children, it doesn't take me any longer to cook than it did when we were vegetarian. I use among other things, potatoes, vegetables, rice, pasta etc all very cheap 'filling' items.

I don't think eating meat would make you more healthy, infact it would just clog your arteries with extra cholesterol.

I'm sure if you find out first if there is a medical reason for your condition and then eat as much of the 'cheap' healthy vegan food available you should find things improve for you.
Good luck and let us know how you get on!

[harpy]

It would be a good idea to check with a doc that everything's OK but on the other hand it seems quite common for people in their early 20s, particularly blokes, to eat everything in sight and not put on any weight. It's a metabolic thing I suppose and fortunately or unfortunately it doesn't usually last.

I have seen pics of my other half at that age and he was just like a stick insect, and now he - isn't Wasn't anything to do with being vegan in his case, or workouts.

[flying plum]

without sounding snarky, is it perhaps the case that bodybuilding is not natural, as opposed to veganism? i know a few people, while they don't engage in bodybuilding, certainly do a lot of weights and exercise. they are omni, but pretty much eat all the time; if not food, then every time i look, they are snarfing down a protein shake. and despite being omni, they are still fairly obsessive about counting calories, and their dietary intake.

however, you said you were feeling 'anorexic' before you started teh weight-training. perhaps you could consider visiting a doctor? i know you say you don't have medical insurance, but i really think that if you are struggling to put on weight, you need to speak to a medical professional. none of us are really qualified to give you this kind of advice...

[messiers31st]

@ Manzana

I suppose the issue here IS twofold -- my dissatisfaction with my own body image (which is wholly mental and not anything I'd expect anyone to help me with or sympathize with) AND my dissatisfaction with the dietary options I've created for myself. It's beginning to look like I just need to broaden my culinary horizons. I had no idea fries were called crisps in the UK.

@ Fiamma

Male, 6 feet tall, 135 pounds

Breakfast: 7 AM
1 cup oatmeal
12 oz Orange juice
1 banana

At work:
3-4 cups of coffee

Lunch: 12 noon
Typically a large quantity of some pasta, mixed with faux meats
16 oz soymilk
Vegan multivitamin

At work:
Snack on oranges, grapes, etc.

Dinner: 6 pm
Usually I go all out at dinner. This can be anything from 2 BALT's (bacon, avocado, lettuce, tomatos) to a HUGE salad w/ carrots, cucumbers, avocados, croutons, bell peppers, etc. I make burritos constantly which consist of an entire can of black, pinto, or vegan refried beans, rice, and sometimes an entire package of faux ground beef.

Before I go to bed I'll usually snack on something; chips and salsa, cookies, etc. Plenty of water throughout the day. Occasionally cook lentils or soybeans in bulk and freeze/refridgerate.

Thank you very much for the book recommendations. I will certainly check those out. I already utilize "Vegan w/ a Vengenace" by Isa Chandra Moskowitz.

All in all I truly appreciate your comments and after standing in the butcher section of my supermarket yesterday, have realized that there is no turning back..even if I wanted to, the thought of eating meat makes me cringe.

[cobweb]

^ i'm glad that's how you feel!

stick around and i'm sure you can work this thing out!

[harpy]

You could try adding some nuts and seeds to your fruit snacks. That should make them much more satisfying and at the same time contribute some calories, protein and "good" oils to your diet.

[Gorilla]

I suppose the issue here IS twofold -- my dissatisfaction with my own body image (which is wholly mental and not anything I'd expect anyone to help me with or sympathize with)

i'm sorry to hear you have body issues. i hope you're able to work through them. my brother was really skinny no matter what he ate until the age of about 22/23 (he's never been vegan) but then filled out all of a sudden; maybe the same will happen with you too.

I had no idea fries were called crisps in the UK.

fries are called chips in the UK. chips are called crisps. confusing, no?!