Why do you think omnivores don't turn vegans sooner ?

[Heartsease]

Although an atheist, my philosophy is 'Hate the sin but love the sinner'.
(If anybody wants to query my use of the words sin + sinner, kindly bugger off- although of course I still love you!)

Yup...I'm in agreement too.

Whether we agree or not some people believe that humans are not designed to eat meat/eggs/dairy. Some say we are. Some say we can choose whether or not to eat these things with no detrimental effects either way. Some omnis are being horribly selfish - like my sister who said "I Know it's perfectly healthy to be vegan but I like my meat!"

And, of course her going all mushy and cuddly with her cat and dog (when she's not yelling at them - or the kids - or clouting them slap across the backside) makes it all the more selfish (in my eyes). When an omni insists it is their belief that they can only be healthy if they eat meat then they are trying to love themselves and their families and I can only respect that choice even if I find it difficult.

I have to admit I don't believe in 'universal truths' or intrinsic 'right and wrong' (you either like it or you don't, I reckon)...so I'm happy for that debate to pass right over my head!

I believe vegans do have a habit of thinking they are 'right where omnivores are so clearly wrong'...but I think that wears off after a couple of decades.

[ellaminnowpea]

I'm actually surprised by the amount of intolerance and judgment towards other people because of their dietary habits. We all know its cruel. But do we not remember we were once omnivores/ vegetarians?

What were OUR excuses for not going vegan sooner?
I am not trying to elicit a response from anyone in particular. So, I'll post my reasons:

1) Lack of information. I honestly didnt know what a vegan was. I didnt know it was possible. I wasn't educated about dairy, eggs, additives, etc.
2) My attempts to maintain veg*nism were NOT supported. I always hated cooking/preparing foods. I just ate the foods my parents prepared.
3) Once I became educated, the main issue was that I afraid of criticism and the social aspect. But I soon love being different and stopped trying to prove myself.

[Heartsease]

I'm actually surprised by the amount of intolerance and judgment towards other people because of their dietary habits. We all know its cruel. But do we not remember we were once omnivores/ vegetarians?

Very good point! I agree whole-heartedly. I do know some life-long vegans and veggies but most of us once chowed on carcass and curdled cow lactations....yeah...sweet tolerance, compassion and understanding wins every time.

I became veggie when I was 12 and vegan when I was 14...I would be surprised if those who became vegan in their 20's and 30's (and later) are'nt understanding of the omnivorous mindset.

I never really had a full-blown omni mindset myself (becoming veggie as soon as my mom could'nt force-feed me anymore) but I can see where they are coming from.

[Prawnil]

Some of this thread, I think, has spiralled up from things that weren't said.

'Hate the sin but love the sinner'

To tidy what I meant right up, I consider:
-The choice to pay for slaughter is "the sin."
-To respect the choice is closer to "Love the sin but ... the sinner."
-To not respect the choice is to "Hate the sin", and clearly,
-To "Hate the sin" is not to "Hate the sinner".
(-To disrespect the choice is not to disrespect the chooser.)

Veganism relies on a single, basic judgement. To treat slaughter-subjugation consistently, regardless of the person involving theirself in it (Me or Other (or past me!)), is not to show intolerance, hostility, or disrespect.
--
My omnivorism was a product of being raised that way, and continuing to live a day-to-day life that was not conducive to reflecting on the way that all species are essentially variations on a theme, that there was no reason to exclude them from "suffering that matters/that is shared". My social situation wasn't up to it, and I didn't have the strength of personal intuition to bring it on myself in that situation.

[sandra]

I think some of you are misinterpreting what others of us are saying. I'm not saying I 'hate' omnivores.................even though I know quite a few who when faced with the evidence of the cruelty they take part in every day, still continue to eat meat/dairy. I find that behaviour inexcusable!
I wasn't lucky enough to have someone point out the cruelty involved in my eating habits as I grew up, I came to the realisation myself...........if I had someone informing me of the facts I would have been vegan many, many years ago.
I will say once again...........I do not respect anyones 'right' to kill and eat animals...........sorry if that offends some of you vegans out there.

p.s. I hope Leedsveg will answer my questions soon!

[Heartsease]

I will say once again...........I do not respect anyones 'right' to kill and eat animals...........sorry if that offends some of you vegans out there.

No one can stop you having your opinion....and we pretty much all have to accept we can't stop omni opinions either. You don't respect it and that's up to you. It does'nt offend me. We are all free to like or dislike what we want...and unless laws are passed saying otherwise...we are free to kill animals. I regard killing animals as murder but there are those that don't. And there's nothing I can do to change someone else's reality.

Best way forth (I believe) is by shining example. Glow with health and vitality and make I'm-about-to-puke faces when passing corpses in the food aisles. I shiver as though it's the vilest thing I saw all day (which, of course, it is). Children are de-sensitized all the time....what with violence on TV and in computer games and those awful corpses in Tesco. Before you can can say 'Chocified Rice Dream' these kids are beating each other up in the playground, shooting rabbits and fishing on the pier like thugs....

[sandra]

So, Heartsease...........do you 'respect' the fact that omnis are responsible for the torture/murder of animals?
I'm confused by some of the attitudes on this thread!

I've just looked at photos of cats and dogs squashed into cages waiting to be skinned alive for the fur trade..............do you respect humans for doing that too?

[Heartsease]

So, Heartsease...........do you 'respect' the fact that omnis are responsible for the torture/murder of animals?
I'm confused by some of the attitudes on this thread!

I've just looked at photos of cats and dogs squashed into cages waiting to be skinned alive for the fur trade..............do you respect humans for doing that too?

Ah...but I don't respect it either. I'm just saying that whether we respect it or not makes no difference.

I suppose the confusion (yes, I am confused!) arises because I want to live in a world where we are all treated with respect. All humans and all non-human animals. And so I want to treat the people who do these frickin' horrible things with compassion. I believe that, for me, is what being vegan is mostly all about.....compassion for animals - including people and, yup, even myself (I screw that one up a lot).

Fact is that the average domestic cat kills when it can and yet still receives love and compassion from the average vegan. Whatever we think of the vile acts some people commit they do so from ignorance, or from some yukky phucked-up place within them (in my opinion) or from a place where they truly believe it is essential for their life - as does the cat (although cats also kill for pleasure) - so they still deserve as much compassion as any other species. I guess I don't fall for species inequality and remain, as always, as compassionate as I can be toward all my fellow animals.

If anyone wants to tidy up what I'm trying to say, feel free. I'm crap at explaining myself this morning (possibly every morning).

[Verencemos]

I think being respectful towards omnis is a tactical necessity, unless we are going to make people vegan at gunpoint!
My sister's patient repeated explanations helped me a lot (over 28 years; she really is very patient!). If she had made me feel like sh*t, I wouldn't have listened.
I believe the only way to go is for the whole world to become vegan, and I have some hope it might, even though others say it is a pipe dream. My rationale for this is that society does change. When I was growing up, adults drinking and driving was perfectly acceptable, and everyone I knew did it. Now it is taboo. I thought there was no way smoking could be banned in pubs, that people would never stand for it - but its happened. Slavery was acceptable in western society - its not now. People's attitude towards people with different colours is improving (I'd be a fool to say its finished evolving).
I imagine that once a groundswell of opinion builds up, then you can have legislation to tackle the last difficult ones. I think it will take decades, but I don't think its impossible.
I think most people here are motivated by ending animal cruelty, but I don't think thats whats going to win the arguement in the end - I think it will be partly about that, but also about scarcity of resources, health and the environment.
I hope I live to see the day when commercial exploitation of animals is illegal and has stopped, and I believe it may happen.
In the meantime, I think we have more of a chance of converting people by patiently, respectfully explaining why we do what we do, in small steps so that they are not overwhelmed by the horror and forced into denial to avoid self-loathing. Then we build up a groundswell of opinion........

[sandra]

I think we are all getting mixed up here with what we are trying to say!
I'm not advocating 'disrespecting' anyone. I'm not saying we should go out and abuse omnivores...............it's 'their attitudes' I don't/can't respect!

We seem to be going round in circles here so just like Fiamma, I will now leave this thread and visit some other less confused threads on the VEGAN forum! xxx

[BlackCats]

I would say that I respect the right of other people to have their own opinion but I don't have to respect other people's views. I believe killing sentient animals is ethically wrong and that is why I'm vegan.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone on here either, I don't care if other vegans respect meat eaters for their beliefs as that is really up to them.

I would say that most meat eaters I know either are under the impression that you need to eat meat and dairy to be fit and healthy or some agree with me that killing animals is cruel or wrong but are too lazy to change their diet.
I know quite a few meat eaters that agree with me that animal testing is ethically wrong though and I don't know any meat eaters that are pro-fox hunting or pro-fur.

[Marrers]

I have only read the last few posts but wish to say that people make all sorts of ethically abhorrent choices (often the law also disapproves of those choices but sadly not in the case of killing and abusing animals) but it doesn't mean I have to respect them or accept that because it is 'their choice' it is fine.
What really gets to me is people who were veggie or vegan and return to meat eating - I'm afraid deep down those people do go down in my estimations because they do know better. I have several friends who have done this - I try not to think about it so I can keep my feelings buried.

Many people don't know any different or don't feel they are able to change - I see that as different, a case of needing to be informed and see a different way is possible for them. Those meat eaters (who have not previously been veggie or vegan) I can understand - I used to be one of them. I try to be patient and accepting and explain and show a vegan life is achievable because I agree with Verencemos that it is better to positively influence people.

[leedsveg]

I believe vegans do have a habit of thinking they are 'right where omnivores are so clearly wrong'...but I think that wears off after a couple of decades.

I know this is a vegan forum but is it possible that there's more to a person's morality, than just whether or not they are vegan? Supposing an omnivore works for a voluntary organisation helping children living in appaling conditions in Gaza. Should I as a vegan look down my nose at that person for being an omnivore? Or should that person look down their nose at me, because I've done nothing at all to help the Gazan children?

It's too easy to take the moral high ground when we only consider our own particular area of concern, but there'll always be people who go that bit further. 'More vegan-organic vegetables anyone? What, you mean you're a vegan but eat vegetables produced using animal manure....?'

[leedsveg]

Sorry to Sandra that I did not answer any of her questions before she left the thread but I honestly didn't realise that she'd asked any! I thought she was being rhetorical with the 'scoring points comment' as I wasn't 'getting at' any particular person but just making a general observation.

May I make a further observation on some of the language used in this thread to describe omnivores. Being called insulting names by vegans is not going to make them change their behaviour, in fact it's more likely to reinforce it. No confusion there. I again name nobody in particular but if people want to revisit their comments and decide that 'the cap fits' then by all means 'wear it'.

[Zero]

It is because the majority of society supports this ideology, therefore people grow up and just accept that "this is the way the world is".

I worked in a slaughter house and meat packing plant as a temp job when I was between jobs years ago, however I didn't go veggie or vegan right after seeing that, it was horrible and I saw the disgusting unsanitary conditions and people dropping meat on the floor then still packing it.

All I did with this information was rationalize it into my "world view" of the time and stopped eating meat from the companies that slaughterhouse supplied

I must have been assuming that this was just one bad example and things were better elsewhere. I am sure it eventually helped me in my decision to go vegan when I finally decided to educate myself and reject the myopic opinion of the majority

[Quantum Mechanic]

It is because the majority of society supports this ideology, therefore people grow up and just accept that "this is the way the world is".

I worked in a slaughter house and meat packing plant as a temp job when I was between jobs years ago, however I didn't go veggie or vegan right after seeing that, it was horrible and I saw the disgusting unsanitary conditions and people dropping meat on the floor then still packing it.

All I did with this information was rationalize it into my "world view" of the time and stopped eating meat from the companies that slaughterhouse supplied

I must have been assuming that this was just one bad example and things were better elsewhere. I am sure it eventually helped me in my decision to go vegan when I finally decided to educate myself and reject the myopic opinion of the majority

While I didn't have as disgusting an experience as that, I remember when I was in 11th grade that a chapter was read to us from the book Fast Food Nation I believe it was (it was one that detailed some of the unsanitary conditions in "meat industry"). And after that I went to lunch and ate some chicken. The thing was, for me the fact was that I just assumed that this stuff was unsanitary from the get go and that people who didn't believe so were terribly naive, and that if I went "vegetarian for a meal" like some of my classmates that it would be really stupid because since I was going to eat meat again eventually that it made zero sense to abstain this time for reason of disgust (which is true - but completely fails to take into account the idea of becoming vegetarian -and we all know that translates to vegan!- for a lifetime, nor did such reasoning take into account any ethical considerations, which had long been languishing).

So while such an observation must be INCREDIBLY frustrating for a veg*n to watch, it doesn't mean the gears have failed to turn - it just means that they haven't all synced up yet.

[vegetarian_cat]

I worked in a slaughter house and meat packing plant as a temp job when I was between jobs years ago, however I didn't go veggie or vegan right after seeing that.

All I did with this information was rationalize it into my "world view" of the time and stopped eating meat from the companies that slaughterhouse supplied

Very interesting example of how we rationalize horrible information and just pretend that either it doesn't apply to us or that it can't be generalized to everything..

I guess it's a self-preservation thing..

[vegetarian_cat]

it doesn't mean the gears have failed to turn - it just means that they haven't all synced up yet.

That's very true too..

How many different thoughts need to be present at the SAME TIME
for people to make a decision and change.

I know it sounds too shallow at first, but I keep thinking this.

since you can only have so many thoughts
in your head at a certain time, people who don't change straight away
are people who are just too preoccupied
with other thoughts on their mind at the time when they
learn about the cruelty (or unhealthiness?) behind animal eating.

So they stop their thinking very fast and move on
to the thoughts they had on their mind at the time.

Example:

a friend of mine is looking for a job right now.
she may lose her house due to foreclosure.
she has lost money invested in stocks.

We were talking about me not eating eggs and she said
"why? aren't there free range eggs in your town now?"

I sent her a link and said, well, maybe it's time you too find out
the truth behind the free range scam..

do you think she read the link i sent her?

I am just assuming that her thread of thoughts may have gone
something like this

"my poor chickens, yeah, they dont look healthy at all"
"god i have to stop wasting time, i need to send more CV"
"god, my migraine. if I can't find a job fast, i wont be able to pay
insurance to get this medicine i get now.. what would i do without it?"
.....

see ?
thoughts on animals would be lost after less than a minute..

dont you think?

So i do agree that syncronicity here is very important,
or having a very clear, empty mind to process information
RIGHT WHEN you learn them.

So maybe that could help those of us who are trying
to pass the message actively.

We shouldn't do it when people don't have time to
think about it for a bit more than a minute..

just a thought...

bye

[cobweb]

Sorry to Sandra that I did not answer any of her questions before she left the thread but I honestly didn't realise that she'd asked any! I thought she was being rhetorical with the 'scoring points comment' as I wasn't 'getting at' any particular person but just making a general observation.

May I make a further observation on some of the language used in this thread to describe omnivores. Being called insulting names by vegans is not going to make them change their behaviour, in fact it's more likely to reinforce it. No confusion there. I again name nobody in particular but if people want to revisit their comments and decide that 'the cap fits' then by all means 'wear it'.

can you give some examples of this 'language' used within this thread
i can't recall seeing anything insulting except possible veiled insults from vegans to other vegans
i agree with Sandra that i do not respect anyone who makes a positive decision to eat meat, it disgusts me and saddens me greatly that any remotely intelligent and educated individual would do that

[Quantum Mechanic]

That's very true too..

How many different thoughts need to be present at the SAME TIME
for people to make a decision and change.

I know it sounds too shallow at first, but I keep thinking this.

since you can only have so many thoughts
in your head at a certain time, people who don't change straight away
are people who are just too preoccupied
with other thoughts on their mind at the time when they
learn about the cruelty (or unhealthiness?) behind animal eating.

So they stop their thinking very fast and move on
to the thoughts they had on their mind at the time.

Example:

a friend of mine is looking for a job right now.
she may lose her house due to foreclosure.
she has lost money invested in stocks.

We were talking about me not eating eggs and she said
"why? aren't there free range eggs in your town now?"

I sent her a link and said, well, maybe it's time you too find out
the truth behind the free range scam..

do you think she read the link i sent her?

I am just assuming that her thread of thoughts may have gone
something like this

"my poor chickens, yeah, they dont look healthy at all"
"god i have to stop wasting time, i need to send more CV"
"god, my migraine. if I can't find a job fast, i wont be able to pay
insurance to get this medicine i get now.. what would i do without it?"
.....

see ?
thoughts on animals would be lost after less than a minute..

dont you think?

So i do agree that syncronicity here is very important,
or having a very clear, empty mind to process information
RIGHT WHEN you learn them.

So maybe that could help those of us who are trying
to pass the message actively.

We shouldn't do it when people don't have time to
think about it for a bit more than a minute..

just a thought...

bye

This has got me thinking. See, one of the ways that I process information, is that I take it ALL in (well, almost all - a LOT more than most people), but this way I can get overwhelmed and have delays in being able to respond to various things. It's like, if I have an ordinary schedule, like a plan to make a sandwich and get dressed, to me this contains A LOT more information to be processed than most people. So for me this means that sometimes I can juggle a whole lot more stuff in my head at once (sometimes math or music or building something), but it can also mean that I'm not able to get dressed, fix meals, plan things.

Personally, when I was making the transition to veganism, I was in the process of dealing with a number of chronic medical conditions like migraines, seizures, scoliosis w/ severe back pain, as well as managing my new semi-independent life as a student in a dorm room (thankfully on a meal plan with a good vegan option), while getting into more serious activism for queer rights and disability rights and taking 2 credits more than a typical full-time load. So yeah, no wonder that I'm pretty much burned out now. But I am quite in a rhythm with being vegan, and the only difficulty there lies with when the cafeteria makes the food inaccessible, by having it too far back for me to reach without bending, staff refusing to acknowledge me, confusing labelling, etc.

[leedsveg]

can you give some examples of this 'language' used within this thread
i can't recall seeing anything insulting except possible veiled insults from vegans to other vegans
i

I could give examples of the insulting language in this thread but what would be the point? We would probably only get into a long debate involving semantics, which I am not willing to do. Also I don't want to have a go at any particular people/person. Some people may think that using harsh language against omnivores may convert them. It's not my viewpoint. Other people may feel as I do that sometimes, the use of harsh language is the user's way of saying 'Never mind converting omnivores, look how committed and sincere I AM.'

Good wishes to all and I am now leaving this thread.

[Zero]

I think this has become more of an issue than it needs to be, people were simply expressing their view points. Some omni's do enjoy hurting animals for their own purposes and that makes the compasionate amoung us angry (sometimes manifesting in different ways) I don't see anything here that is highly derogatory however it probably would fit better in a more private part of the board.

It just seems like a discussion that was intended to be approached from a more logical view point than an emotional one

There are a lot of good points raised in this thread in my opinion.

[vegetarian_cat]

[quote=Quantum Mechanic;548658]
Personally, when I was making the transition to veganism, I was in the process of dealing with a number of chronic medical conditions like migraines, seizures, scoliosis w/ severe back pain, as well as managing my new semi-independent life as a student in a dorm room /quote]


Well, let me just say I'm impressed you managed to take
such a decision when in the midst of all those worries and pain..

Has any of those conditions improved after going vegan?

I'm a migraine sufferer too

It's still to early to say if cutting dairy will have any effect but
we'll see. It'd be a great bonus..

bye and i hope the food you like will be easier for you to reach
in the cafeteria...

[cobweb]

leedsveg and zero - i asked beacause i just didn't see any harsh language used atall...........

[Nyx]

1) Habit (as mentioned

2) They just don't care, literally, feel NOTHING for beings they don't know (an omni friend explained this to me)

3) Can't put themselves in an animals place

4) Pretend they are in a fantasy world where it doesn't happen and the brain actually makes it so the images/info they saw or heard are just nonsense (my mom does this)

5) We are above animals, we are more intelligent and thus not only deserving of their flesh but also have the RIGHT to it, to survive.

6) We are part of everything, everything is connected. Life takes life to sustain life.

7) Religion

8) Immediate pleasure that overrides logic (taste)

9) Animals do not feel pain or suffering the way we do and do not have families. Same thing as seeing animals as actually just food like a plant and nothing more.

10) Nothing is ever going to change, so why bother?

11) Emotional ties to food

12) Cultural ties to food
And there was one more thing I was thinking of but I can't remember.

There are probably more excuses, but I don't know.

[Zero]

leedsveg and zero - i asked beacause i just didn't see any harsh language used atall...........

I did say in my response that I didn't see anything highly derogatory.

[vegetarian_cat]

1) Habit (as mentioned)

2) They just don't care, literally, feel NOTHING for beings they don't know (an omni friend explained this to me)
.

Thank you for that exhaustive list..
I like lists.

Yes, I still think I'd add

13 lack of time and /or physical energy
for those who care and believe it's right, to still make the transition.
As easy as it is, it still takes SOME time and devotion (and some cooking)

14 conveniency : how much easier it still is for omni's in small towns to eat out, buy stuff in supermarkets,
go to family dinners, friend's parties etc without feeling left out
(or without being left out!)

15 TV and lobbies' years of brainwashing that milk is good etc etc etc


16 (for men especially, macho men in particular) the idea that meat= increased sexual potency and more veggies= more female hormones..
Not true i know, but go tell men around here

......................................

[cobweb]

I did say in my response that I didn't see anything highly derogatory.

yes, you did

[Quantum Mechanic]

[QUOTE=vegetarian_cat;549207]

Personally, when I was making the transition to veganism, I was in the process of dealing with a number of chronic medical conditions like migraines, seizures, scoliosis w/ severe back pain, as well as managing my new semi-independent life as a student in a dorm room /quote]


Well, let me just say I'm impressed you managed to take
such a decision when in the midst of all those worries and pain..

Has any of those conditions improved after going vegan?

I'm a migraine sufferer too

It's still to early to say if cutting dairy will have any effect but
we'll see. It'd be a great bonus..

bye and i hope the food you like will be easier for you to reach
in the cafeteria...

Thanks.

As for migraines and seizures, I was taking medications at the start of the school year (when still an omni), and those had started taking effect, so it would really be impossible to discern whether there was any effect, as my seizures and migraines had decreased to such low frequency already with the medication and the avoidance of most trigger factors like fluorescent lights (by wearing a hooded sweatshirt to just about everyplace, and being made fun of for it), and the scoliosis was resulting in pain pretty consistently during the school year, up until the last couple weeks. Doctor thinks it's a pinched nerve. Probably got worsened because the start of this quarter we're supposed to take the big calculus book to class, which we didn't have to do before, and I did a really stupid thing and carried them over my shoulder since I didn't remember I had scoliosis until the pain was so bad that I couldn't get out of bed for a couple days.

(Note: I would've rated this pain as about a 6 or a 7, and earlier on when I would about once a week have it bad enough that I would almost pass out from it, I would've rated it a 4 or a 5 on a pain scale - so anyone looking at a pain scale rating from an autistic person or someone who deals with chronic pain - or someone who is both - keep in mind that they're not often very accurate then, and that it would be better to ask for an example situation like I gave).

My chronic sinusitis that seems to pop up yearly appeared to have improved after I quit dairy, though.

[Verencemos]

I would agree that it seems fruitful to look at why any of us (except those lucky enough to be raised vegan) didn't do it sooner- then we can prepare and think in answer to the questions and obstacles that will be raised, and then we will have more chance of getting in under the defences during that fleeting receptive moment that I suspect some / many / most omnis have from time to time (my brother amazed me the other day by saying he agreed it was ethical to be vegan - that would not have been predictable a few years ago).
I hope the thoughts will have a drip, drip, drip, drip effect towards conversion

[Sarabi]

Currently, I'm kind of bummed that yet ANOTHER omnivore on campus told me they "used to be vegetarian/vegan." What don't they turn vegan sooner? Hell if I know. I can't fathom why they would drop it after being "really passionate about it" or after "vegetarian for 20 years." They told me why, but it still frustrates me. Why do you think vegans become omnivores SO SOON or SO LATE? Of the at least four veg*ans I've heard of so far quitting around here, only one that I know of had an understandable reason to me... she was anemic and probably under "doctor's orders." Mind you, I don't call it a good reason, just a comprehensible one.

[veganmuffin]

Because sometimes peoples' appetites are bigger than their hearts.

Also, people underestimate their self-control and will-power. If only they knew how easy it was to be vegan when you know all the facts about what NOT being vegan will do to animals!

[terem]

I would agree with laziness and convenience. I used to tell myself that I couldn't afford to be vegan. That was because I would be buying all of my food, and being a college student thought I would go broke. However, I make enough that I could afford it, and it was a silly excuse. Many might not realize that buying a bunch of veggies is so much cheaper than buying a bunch of nasty meat. Also, dried lentils, kidney beans, etc. from the international section can last a long time and are very cheap.
Many omnis might also think that they couldn't because of nutritional reasons and don't take the time to do the research.
I was at an Italian restaurant once and I checked to see if there was meat in the pasta sauce, and the waiter asked if I was vegan. Turns out he used to be vegetarian but had to start eating meat because he became anemic. With a little time and research he could have filled those nutritional needs and have been a healthy vegetarian.

[terem]

Because sometimes peoples' appetites are bigger than their hearts.

Also, people underestimate their self-control and will-power. If only they knew how easy it was to be vegan when you know all the facts about what NOT being vegan will do to animals!

Agreed. I would never be able to go back knowing what suffering goes into meat and dairy.

[bradders]

Because sometimes peoples' appetites are bigger than their hearts.

Also, people underestimate their self-control and will-power. If only they knew how easy it was to be vegan when you know all the facts about what NOT being vegan will do to animals!

agree with it pretty much
I used to kid myself that it would be too difficult etc. there is a blindness, people have a switch thrown in their head where they see and know but do not see and know (Orwellian doublethink) it takes something serious to get that switch to move back where it should be

[Johnstuff]

Yeah I've often thought it's a bit like a switch in my head, once switched there could be no going back.

I think the main reason is brainwashing/social conditioning. An inocent child would most likley be horrified if they knew how their food was produced. After 20 years in a crazy society it is hard to break through to someone.

I was lucky that my dad is very unconventional (and vegetarian) and he sowed the seeds of doubt in my mind.

If someone points out that something I do causes suffering then I would be very interested and want to find out the truth. A lot of people don't want to know.

Our society is so full of crap. People are so afraid of being taken in that they cannot be taken out.

[KcCrash]

Because they can't be arsed.

[buttons]

For some people, the fear of being seen as "abnormal" or "odd" is a factor. Thankfully, I've always been a bit peculiar, so it wasn't a consideration for me!

[glovesforfoxes]

Because we are taught that eating meat is a matter of practicality, it is necessary, & most importantly, has nothing to do with justice.

[VeganLu]

In my experience, most of the non-vegan people that know me are very nice to me about my beliefs. They show interest and I am glad to answer their questions. But, when I finally get to the point of telling them what goes on in factory farms, all of them say "I don't want to know". What they are saying is that they will feel bad to know what is going on, but they want to continue to eat meat and dairy. I immediately tell them "okay".

Keep on keeping on!

[Tishy]

I feel one thing that stopped me from going vegetarian then vegan sooner was to being apart of the actual process. My boyfriends mother is a meat-a-holic, one time we did the whole "but you would never kill an animal?", and she was like "no i wouldnt, someone else does it for you so I'm not apart of it".

I pretty much became vegetarian as soon as I left home at 17, as soon as I got away from my force feeding meat mother. One time when I was 13 she made me sit at the table until 12 at night because I didn't eat my chicken (I wouldn't eat meat that resembled animals, eg. chicken, steak).

My mum and my boyfriends mum, they aren't cruel people. They just disassociate themselves with the whole process. My Mum will never have a pet bird because she can't bare the thought she would have to keep them in cage. But yet she's happy eating pig? It doesn't make sense to me now, but I used to be the same! I didn't physically kill the animals, so I didn't feel bad about it.

[RainInStarlight]

16 (for men especially, macho men in particular) the idea that meat= increased sexual potency and more veggies= more female hormones..
Not true i know, but go tell men around here

......................................

Yeah...but then they complain in their later years about having ED, and they wonder why.....

[Blueberry]

Because they can't be arsed.

As a very new vegan, I can confirm this in my case! I have always felt guilty for being an omnivore, and yet the thought of living on brown rice and kidney beans didn't appeal. I didn't research what it meant to be vegetarian, let alone vegan. I had years of conditioning from my family, and when you grow up thinking that humans are more important than the planet which supports them, and that "all the farmers lose their livelihood if we all go veggie" (mum) then it's hard to make the break. I thought buying products not tested on animals was enough. I now know that it isn't, and vegan is the only way.

[Blueberry]

And I also agree with a previous poster - it has been too easy to make the switch! Unbelievably so for me - but that's because I have always cooked fresh food as I can't bear convenience food. And many of my favourite foods I have eaten for years were "accidentally" vegan, so apart from eggs, I don't feel like anything is missing yet!

[MariaTrekker]

If they read omnivore's dilemma they would go vegan asap!

[EcoTribalVegan]

I think it simply boils down to laziness and/or a fear of change. Most hide behind the pitiful excuse "well I couldn't live without [insert some animal derived product here]".

[RainInStarlight]

I think it simply boils down to laziness and/or a fear of change. Most hide behind the pitiful excuse "well I couldn't live without [insert some animal derived product here]".

I used to be that way! (It was about cheese, too.)

And now, the smell of cheese cooking is gross. I suppose tastes change once you haven't had something in awhile?

I dunno.

[pete_m]

I'm not sure that it's just laziness that stops people going vegan. Being "lazy" implies that that particular non-vegan realises there's a problem to begin with.

I know for me, it was because I've never fully investigated (and fully thought through) what I was eating.

So for me it was ignorance, fuelled by a lack of imagination ("what, there's a reasonable alternative?") and lack of curiosity ("how exactly *was* this burger produced?").

[leedsveg]

I'm not sure that it's just laziness that stops people going vegan. Being "lazy" implies that that particular non-vegan realises there's a problem to begin with.

I know for me, it was because I've never fully investigated (and fully thought through) what I was eating.

So for me it was ignorance, fuelled by a lack of imagination ("what, there's a reasonable alternative?") and lack of curiosity ("how exactly *was* this burger produced?").

+1 I can fully identify with that pete.

It's marvellous the lack of understanding/compassion some vegans have for omnis, the very people the vegans were some years ago*, before they 'saw the light'.

(*unless of course they were born to vegan parents)

lv

[Blueberry]

It's marvellous the lack of understanding/compassion some vegans have for omnis, the very people the vegans were some years ago*, before they 'saw the light'.

hmmm... I'm not sure I agree. I was only omni four weeks ago, so coming to it fresh, it's awful to admit but I did know what goes on in the farming and meat industries. But I did really enjoy eating the products. So I was in denial... I always felt guilty but justified it in some way. "The animal is already dead, so why not" kind of attitude. Sad but true. And I was too lazy to give that much thought to what the hell my family would eat if I stopped cooking their favourite food.

My vote still goes to laziness.