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Thread: Vegans less likely to have twins

  1. #1
    V for Veganica Sarabi's Avatar
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    Default Vegans less likely to have twins

    A study shows that vegans are five times less likely to have twins than women who consume dairy: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/43774.php

    As multiple births are associated with higher incidences of premature births, congenital defects and pregnancy-induced hypertension, Dr. Steinman suggest woman wanting to get pregnant might consider replacing dairy products with other protein sources - especially in countries where growth hormone administration to cattle is allowed.
    What do you think? I have always thought twins were cool, so I am wondering if there are a lot of people who would want to drink dairy to improve the likelihood... but I also heard that dairy supposedly decreases women's fertility rate... and also increases chances of diabetes for the same reason it improves ovulation (insulin).
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    missbettie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    my finance is an identical twin, i think it would be really neat to have twins...but it is really hard on your body. i'm not sure if I really believe that you lower your chances, isn't it genetic?

    on further reading i guess the growth hormone would effect it...hmm its very interesting....but you know women had twins before growth hormones were even a factor....maybe its half and half or something....okay i'll shut up.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

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    V for Veganica Sarabi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    It's partly genetic. I know you can improve your likelihood of having multiples by taking fertility pills. Women who have 4+ multiples are usually on fertility treatment.

    I am now finding websites saying things like, "How to have twins: drink milk. Don't be a vegan: Drink milk to have twins." That's pretty stupid.
    "To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana." - Buddha

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    missbettie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    i know with the fertility, but it does make sense that if you drink milk you increase your chance of having twins. There are so many hormones in milk, and they cause a lot of problems.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

  5. #5
    pavotrouge
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    I thought the increased rates of multiples were partly due to hormones in food nowadays?
    anyway, it isn't a regular thing for a human to give birth to twins and can hardly see anybody wanting twins so badly

  6. #6

    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    I think these studies were meant to highlight that having twins is actually less desirable from a medical point of view. This is because of the higher risk of complications involved, particularly when a lot of older mothers are having babies today. Taken out of a medical setting, I think most people think it having twins is a good thing

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    CunningPlans Poison Ivy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Hah, tell that to the vegan lady who is currently pregnant with her second set of twins...I think she'd beg to differ!
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Wow, second set?! That's probably fairly uncommon

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    V for Veganica Sarabi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote jimmeh View Post
    I think these studies were meant to highlight that having twins is actually less desirable from a medical point of view. This is because of the higher risk of complications involved, particularly when a lot of older mothers are having babies today. Taken out of a medical setting, I think most people think it having twins is a good thing
    Yeah, only Dr. Steinman suggests reducing dairy consumption... the rest of the websites I found were either neutral or encouraged dairy/twins.
    "To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana." - Buddha

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    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    My sisters are twins. I think having twins is just down to the egg separating into two for identical twins or two eggs being fertilized at the same time for non identical twins. I really don't think it has anything to do with dairy or other outside influences at all.
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    V for Veganica Sarabi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote sandra View Post
    My sisters are twins. I think having twins is just down to the egg separating into two for identical twins or two eggs being fertilized at the same time for non identical twins. I really don't think it has anything to do with dairy or other outside influences at all.
    Why not? What evidence do you have to the contrary? One or two sets of vegan twins is hardly evidence that the study is false. If that were the case, then why not say that all the vegans who are NOT twins are evidence supporting the study?

    In other news, cattle breeders are working on a way to improve odds of twin breeding to increase profits. Next thing you know, they'll be feeding milk to adult cows.
    "To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana." - Buddha

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    TheAlterEgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Hmmm well since it's a direct result of the growth hormone given to the cows in order to produce more milk etc ...

    'IGF is a protein, released from the liver in response to growth hormone. It circulates in the blood and finds its way into the animal's milk. Sensitivity of the ovaries to follicle-stimulating hormone is increased with the presence of IGF - this increases ovulation.'

    You'd probably be just as likely to conceive twins if you took that rather than advocating the consumption of dairy products purely for a whim of having twins!
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote sandra View Post
    My sisters are twins. I think having twins is just down to the egg separating into two for identical twins or two eggs being fertilized at the same time for non identical twins. I really don't think it has anything to do with dairy or other outside influences at all.
    Yeah that's what I always thought. But I guess the dairy thing makes sense. Who knows what the crap we consume does to us in the long-run...

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    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote Sarabi View Post
    Why not? What evidence do you have to the contrary?
    Hi Sarabi, I'm not totally convinced by this study. It may well be true, but I don't see how they can come to these conclusions when the numbers of vegan women are so small compared to the non-vegan women. Having twins is quite rare (although not completely) so of course it will be more rare in vegan women, as there aren't as many of us.

    Also, why are they saying 'especially dairy?'...........surely the growth hormones are in meat aswell.

    I think it comes down to this IGF thing and it states that ' A woman's chances of having twins are influenced by her levels of insulin-like growth factor. '
    It also says, ' Apart from diet, IGF production is genetically linked.' .............this is the important bit in my view. I have always known that having twins 'runs' in families, so I believe it's more to do with genetics than dairy.

    Of course, this is just my opinion, I'm certainly no expert (but then how many times have the 'experts' had to come out and say they got something wrong and completely changed their original findings?).................I'm sure though if this study is proved to be correct there will be infertility clinics all over the world advocating their patients consume large amounts of dairy.
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  15. #15
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    what about animals that have twins then, none of them eat dairy foods, except cows of course?
    what a load of bollox!
    i know someone who had 2 sets of twins, too, 20 years apart!

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    V for Veganica Sarabi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote cobweb View Post
    what about animals that have twins then, none of them eat dairy foods, except cows of course?
    what a load of bollox!
    i know someone who had 2 sets of twins, too, 20 years apart!
    I'm sorry, but I don't see any scientific reason for your skepticism. Suggesting that all animals are the same is ridiculous. Not even all humans are the same, much less all animal species. The fact that cats have on average three kittens per litter says nothing about human reproduction.
    "To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana." - Buddha

  17. #17
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote Sarabi View Post
    I'm sorry, but I don't see any scientific reason for your skepticism. Suggesting that all animals are the same is ridiculous. Not even all humans are the same, much less all animal species. The fact that cats have on average three kittens per litter says nothing about human reproduction.

    I don't always go along with scientific reasoning, i go by my own experience a lot of the time.
    I wasn't thinking of cats, i was thinking of sheep, horses, and other animals that don't usually consume dairy products but have twin births.
    And yes, not all humans are the same, so that article lets itself down by generalising, and yes, all animal species are different, that is why we are patently not 'designed' to drink cow milk/eat dairy foods

  18. #18
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    by the way, why do so many people say 'i'm sorry, but.......' when disagreeing?
    no need to be sorry, we are all entitled to have differing opinions!

  19. #19
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    I'm surprised people want to ingest extra hormones in that way, even if they do want twins and think it will improve their chances. Who knows what else it will do to them, or to any children they may conceive?

    As far as I know the EU doesn't allow growth hormones to be given to cattle, though.

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    V for Veganica Sarabi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote cobweb View Post
    I don't always go along with scientific reasoning, i go by my own experience a lot of the time.
    I wasn't thinking of cats, i was thinking of sheep, horses, and other animals that don't usually consume dairy products but have twin births.
    And yes, not all humans are the same, so that article lets itself down by generalising, and yes, all animal species are different, that is why we are patently not 'designed' to drink cow milk/eat dairy foods
    Nope, that's not a scientific claim. Most science is just a matter of generalization. Saying that humans have two sexes is a total generalization, but would you dismiss it for that reason? I could say that humans have 6 billion sexes if I feel like it... what difference does that make?

    By the way, 1-4% of cow births are twin births. That's 10-40x as often as humans who only have 1/1000 twin births. How do you explain that one, eh?

    What boggles me is why everyone is so bent on disproving this study... Do you think that somehow having twins makes you superior and having a smaller chance of having twins makes you inferior?
    "To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana." - Buddha

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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote cobweb View Post
    what about animals that have twins then, none of them eat dairy foods, except cows of course?
    what a load of bollox!
    i know someone who had 2 sets of twins, too, 20 years apart!
    Good point.

    I always find that these kinds of studies seem a bit arbitrary. I wonder who wakes up one day and decides to see if milk has anything to do with human twins. It's like the studies that say that kids who have family dinners are more likely to be confident or something. So random. I just don't get it. But then again, I'm still a teen so what do I know?
    Last edited by baby_vicuņa; May 9th, 2009 at 05:48 PM. Reason: clicked "submit" too soon

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote Sarabi View Post
    What boggles me is why everyone is so bent on disproving this study... Do you think that somehow having twins makes you superior and having a smaller chance of having twins makes you inferior?
    Everyone isn't bent on disproving it. I haven't looked at the story in detail, but it seems quite plausible to me that ingesting extra hormones would mess with your reproductive system (and other parts of your body as well).

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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    ^ yeah it seems plausible. Sarabi, I can't speak for everyone but for me, I'm a natural skeptic. I always question studies like this. As Harpy said, it seems plausible, but the study itself is what I'm questioning. I think it would be a neat fun fact if it were true that vegans are less likely to have twins, but I just don't see how it could be proven (or why someone would want to prove it for that matter)

    Anyone else question whether this could be bad for vegan rep if this were true? It seems to me that in modern society, people are baby crazy. My first impression on this was the fear that people would be like "Oh dang, being vegan makes you less likely to have twins...that doesn't sounds healthy to me..."

  24. #24
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote Sarabi View Post
    Nope, that's not a scientific claim. Most science is just a matter of generalization. Saying that humans have two sexes is a total generalization, but would you dismiss it for that reason? I could say that humans have 6 billion sexes if I feel like it... what difference does that make?

    By the way, 1-4% of cow births are twin births. That's 10-40x as often as humans who only have 1/1000 twin births. How do you explain that one, eh?

    What boggles me is why everyone is so bent on disproving this study... Do you think that somehow having twins makes you superior and having a smaller chance of having twins makes you inferior?

    ok, you're always right, we're always wrong and are obviously not allowed to hold an opinion
    i have plenty of answers to your points above but as it think this discussion is a bit silly i actually cannot be bothered to do so

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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote cobweb View Post
    ok, you're always right, we're always wrong and are obviously not allowed to hold an opinion
    Cobby, that's not what was said, and so that comment is dismissive and not terribly helpful - I think it makes people feel that you disapprove of them disagreeing with you... which is why people then say "I'm sorry but...". You're entitled to your opinion, as everyone else is to theirs.

    Back to topic - a higher than average proportion of children with disabilities I work with are twins. Personally, if I had a choice, I'd take the less-likely-to-have twins route... oh, I did!

  26. #26
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    ok, obviously i'm annoying everyone, maybe i'll just keep all my opinions to myself from now on and let everyone else post their 'terribly helpful' comments, no problem.

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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Whatever.

  28. #28
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Quote Ruby Rose View Post
    Whatever.
    Terribly Helpful.

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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Hey let's drop it huh? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course, but let's keep it positive people

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    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans less likely to have twins

    Yet another thread descends into disarray!

    I'm really starting to despair of some of the subject matter in threads. I often wonder about the validity of some of the threads too!
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