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Thread: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

  1. #1
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Exactly why my long term goal is a brown rice diet. I know it sounds crazy, and hard but I've enjoyed food enough, time to use it what it's for, survival.
    Last edited by Korn; Feb 14th, 2009 at 01:42 PM. Reason: The first posts in this thread was from another thread...

  2. #2
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Turmeric - you gotta be kidding me!

    ^Just to clairify, you mean mean a diet of exclusivly brown rice?

  3. #3
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: Turmeric - you gotta be kidding me!

    Yes but with herbs and vegetable mixtures as well.

    There is a book I've read by George Ohsawa concerning macrobiotics, in it he explains that a person could live on nothing but brown rice and live a very healthy existence do to brown rice having all the vitamins, minerals, nutrients, fats, proteins and carbs that a person needs.

    Adding occasional fruits and vegetables to the diet would round it out with Vitamin A and C.

    In Japan they call rice with vegetables, whether steamed or fresh, rice salad.

  4. #4
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Turmeric - you gotta be kidding me!

    ^And what is the benefit over eating a varied diet?

  5. #5
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: Turmeric - you gotta be kidding me!

    It's claimed that a person can live a very healthy, disease free long life with a mental clarity known to very few people.

  6. #6
    squigaletta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turmeric - you gotta be kidding me!

    Do you not think all these can be achieved by just eating healthfuly in the first place. I don't see how that is superior to any diet that is well balanced but contains more than just rice. Seems a bit like orthorexia to me tbh.

  7. #7
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: Turmeric - you gotta be kidding me!

    Quote squigaletta View Post
    Do you not think all these can be achieved by just eating healthfuly in the first place. I don't see how that is superior to any diet that is well balanced but contains more than just rice. Seems a bit like orthorexia to me tbh.
    Yes your right good health can be achieved by eating healthy, it's just a personal goal of mine to take my diet to that level for a few reasons, some other than health, yes it does resemble orthorexia but since there is no such medical condition and was invented by an omnivore, Steven Bratman, a Colorado MD, it's not orthorexia but a well researched way of life. Yes I think limiting foods with out knowing how is dangerous.

  8. #8
    [LMNOP] ellaminnowpea's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Have you researched this type of diet yourself? Do you know what kind of vitamins, minerals, and macronutrients are found in brown rice?

    Brown rice contains a good amount of fiber, manganese, magnesium, and selenium. If you eat the whole grain, you could get some level of select B-vitamins (B1, B3, B6).

    But... brown rice has basically no (or very negligible amounts of) omega 3, 6, or 9; EPA or DHA; vitamin A, C, E, D, K; folate; electrolytes; fluoride; iodine; iron; thiamin; amino acids; protein; zinc; copper; phosphorus; niacin; pantothenic acid... etc.

    I've done a lot of nutritional case studies for populations in Asia and South America, where the diet is high in rice and low in vegetables, fruits, and proteins. I based my work on established studies through the ADA, WHO, etc. These populations often DIE b/c of severe malnutrition of b-vitamins, protein, and especially minerals.

    After some period of time on a brown rice diet, you're likely to suffer from protein-energy-malnutrition such as marasmus or kwashiorkor. Severe protein and electrolyte depletion will cause your body to destroy your muscles (your HEART is a muscle) and leads to kidney and heart failure. I'd urge you to research this type of diet thoroughly before you cause yourself severe health problems.
    I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship. ~ Alcott

  9. #9
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    George Oshawa never suggested that people should live on a brown rice diet for more than 10 days. Even during those 10 days, people should add tamari (soy sauce) and goma sio (roasted sesame seeds with sea salt).
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  10. #10
    Mahk
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    From a nutritional perspective tamari and gomasio are nutritionally void in the quantities one would normally use.
    ----

    Great analysis LMNOP.

    Although brown rice seems entirely inappropriate nutritionally if one was forced
    (or chose) a sustained mono food diet, I have often wondered if there is a singular food which offers a complete compliment of all the nutrients. I'm 99% sure there isn't, but one could come pretty close by cheating in the form of a soup, goulash, or chili made with only a few elements.

    Maybe a spinach, broccoli, flax seed oil (!), nutritional yeast (fortified with B12, that's double cheating BTW ) soup?


    That's only four elements with only one cheating element (a vitamin pill of B12 sneaked in basically).

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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Is the Oshawa book you are talking about You Are All Sanpaku? I read that one. And in it he recommends the rice for 10 days. I made a half hearted attempt to try it (as I think I am sanpaku) but didn't even make it through a full day. I just don't have the discipline and I love food too much.


  12. #12
    Mahk
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Sanpaku. [Just in case I'm not the only one who had never heard of it.]

    I wonder if there is a 10 day diet that cures left handedness? I hear such people are considered sinister. (see definition 4b here)

  13. #13
    pat sommer's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Ya, I can recommend the brown rice diet -after a bout of dysentery-

    If you want to reduce the number of foodstuffs down to a minimum, oats and millet should make the list: their aminos actually compliment.
    the only animal ingredient in my food is cat hair

  14. #14

    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post
    survival.
    Exactly why I don't eat a brown rice diet.

  15. #15
    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    i do like the look and simplicity of a macrobiotic diet.

    i wonder if getting the balancing right is easy?

    i wouldn't want to follow it long term though - i'm not convinced of the benefits long term.

  16. #16
    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    got a book out of the library today on macro diet.

    interesting reading so far...

  17. #17
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post
    Exactly why my long term goal is a brown rice diet. I know it sounds crazy, and hard but I've enjoyed food enough, time to use it what it's for, survival.
    doesnt madonna follow a macrobiotic diet?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet

    it's not just brown rice....


    What are the Guidelines of the Macrobiotic Diet?

    • Whole grains typically make up 50 to 60% of each meal. Whole grains include brown rice, whole wheat berries, barley, millet, rye, corn, buckwheat, and other whole grains. Rolled oats, noodles, pasta, bread, baked goods, and other flour products can be eaten occasionally.
    • Soup. One to two cups or bowls of soup per day. Miso and shoyu, which are made from fermented soybeans, are commonly used.
    • Vegetables typically make up 25 to 30% of the daily food intake. Up to one-third of the total vegetable intake can be raw. Otherwise, vegetables should be steamed, boiled, baked, and sauteed.
    • Beans make up 10% of the daily food intake. This includes cooked beans or bean products such as tofu, tempeh, and natto.
    • Animal products. A small amount of fish or seafood is typically consumed several times per week. Meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy are usually avoided. Fish or seafood are eaten with horseradish, wasabi, ginger, mustard, or grated daikon to help the body detoxify from the effects of fish and seafood.
    • Seeds and nuts in moderation. Seeds and nuts can be lightly roasted and salted with sea salt or shoyu.
    • Local fruit can be consumed several times a week. Includes apples, pears, peaches, apricots, grapes, berries, melons, and other fruit. Tropical fruit such as mango, pineapple, and papaya is usually avoided.
    • Desserts are permitted in moderation, approximately two to three times per week. Desserts can be enjoyed by people who are in good health. Emphasize naturally sweet foods such as apples, squash, adzuki beans, and dried fruit. Natural sweeteners such as rice syrup, barley malt, and amazake can be used. Sugar, honey, molasses, chocolate, carob, and other sweeteners are avoided.
    • Cooking oil is typically unrefined vegetable oil. One of the most common oils used is dark sesame oil. Other oils that are recommended are light sesame oil, corn oil, and mustard seed oil.
    • Condiments and seasonings include natural sea salt, shoyu, brown rice vinegar, umeboshi vinegar, umeboshi plums, grated ginger root, fermented pickles, gomashio (roasted sesame seeds), roasted seaweed, and sliced scallions.
    Diet guidelines are individualized based on factors such as climate, season, age, gender, activity, and health needs.


    http://altmedicine.about.com/od/popu...acrobiotic.htm

  19. #19
    Mahk
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Some leaders of the macrobiotic movement, including George Ohsawa himself, not only smoked cigarettes but also advocated smoking! The inhaled smoke, he claimed, had the "right color", so it was "safe". Maybe his Yin-yang-ometer, the device he would have used to determine whether a food or smoke was yin or yang, was mis-calibrated? Hmm...Either that or the divine cosmos which instructed him in such matters was playing a prank on him.

    He died of heart disease at the age of 72.

    Sources:

    http://www.cybermacro.com/macrobioti...y-collins.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet

  20. #20
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote ellaminnowpea View Post
    Have you researched this type of diet yourself? Do you know what kind of vitamins, minerals, and macronutrients are found in brown rice?

    Brown rice contains a good amount of fiber, manganese, magnesium, and selenium. If you eat the whole grain, you could get some level of select B-vitamins (B1, B3, B6).

    But... brown rice has basically no (or very negligible amounts of) omega 3, 6, or 9; EPA or DHA; vitamin A, C, E, D, K; folate; electrolytes; fluoride; iodine; iron; thiamin; amino acids; protein; zinc; copper; phosphorus; niacin; pantothenic acid... etc.

    I've done a lot of nutritional case studies for populations in Asia and South America, where the diet is high in rice and low in vegetables, fruits, and proteins. I based my work on established studies through the ADA, WHO, etc. These populations often DIE b/c of severe malnutrition of b-vitamins, protein, and especially minerals.

    After some period of time on a brown rice diet, you're likely to suffer from protein-energy-malnutrition such as marasmus or kwashiorkor. Severe protein and electrolyte depletion will cause your body to destroy your muscles (your HEART is a muscle) and leads to kidney and heart failure. I'd urge you to research this type of diet thoroughly before you cause yourself severe health problems.
    I get giddy with excitement when proving someone so wrong that when you look up wrong in the dictionary her tastefully sensual picture appears.

    This is an easy one, and as a side note these are the nutritional facts for long grain brown rice..............short grain is known to be much more nutritious, I'm just ready to get to sleep and to lazy presently to look it up..........here ya go : http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/c...d-pasta/5707/2

    Total Omega-3 fatty acids 27.3mg per serving
    Total Omega-6 fatty acids 603mg per serving
    I won't presently go into the science of why those levels are acceptable (amout of servings per day being one) but they are. Considering most Americans ingest zero omegas everyday I'd say any amount for a westerner is an improvement.

    I just threw out Georges book, it was an original copy from the first print run and would fall apart in your hands when touched or I would quote Georges (a synonym) declaration that if one chose to live on brown rice alone (I've read the book cover to cover several times) one would live a long and healthy life.

    Considering most asians still haven't evolved past polished white rice, devoid of any nutritional value, I can only assume your studies of rice based diets is limited to white rice.

    I could speak fondly of George ( Nyoichi Sakurazawa ) for hours but I'd like to at least quote him correctly and alas I must re purchase the book where he explains that the family should have a community pot of rice to eat from all day long, especially leaving the more cooked, virtually burnt crispy rice at the bottom of the pot for the sick and elderly as it is much richer in nutrition and healthful benefits.

    Further more Ohsawa does not warn against a rice only diet but highly encourages yin and yang, the art of balance, but that if one could be as disciplined as to eat nothing but brown rice, brown rice cream (roasted ground brown rice with sea salt and filtered water made into a paste or cream consitency) and a few other grains, again.......one would live a long, happy and healthy life.

    The actual ten day rice fast was believed by Ohsawa to be the amount of days it takes for the body to replace the entire blood supply with fresh clean blood, fed by nutritious brown rice made with filtered water there by curing disease and enhancing healthfulness. He goes further to explain that the longer your rice fast the better and that 30 days is ideal but 3 months is better and so on and so on.

    PS fluoride is poison especially for adults look here:
    http://www.lovethetruth.com/truth_about_fluoride.htm

  21. #21
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Daffodil View Post
    see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet

    it's not just brown rice....


    What are the Guidelines of the Macrobiotic Diet?

    • Whole grains typically make up 50 to 60% of each meal. Whole grains include brown rice, whole wheat berries, barley, millet, rye, corn, buckwheat, and other whole grains. Rolled oats, noodles, pasta, bread, baked goods, and other flour products can be eaten occasionally.
    • Soup. One to two cups or bowls of soup per day. Miso and shoyu, which are made from fermented soybeans, are commonly used.
    • Vegetables typically make up 25 to 30% of the daily food intake. Up to one-third of the total vegetable intake can be raw. Otherwise, vegetables should be steamed, boiled, baked, and sauteed.
    • Beans make up 10% of the daily food intake. This includes cooked beans or bean products such as tofu, tempeh, and natto.
    • Animal products. A small amount of fish or seafood is typically consumed several times per week. Meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy are usually avoided. Fish or seafood are eaten with horseradish, wasabi, ginger, mustard, or grated daikon to help the body detoxify from the effects of fish and seafood.
    • Seeds and nuts in moderation. Seeds and nuts can be lightly roasted and salted with sea salt or shoyu.
    • Local fruit can be consumed several times a week. Includes apples, pears, peaches, apricots, grapes, berries, melons, and other fruit. Tropical fruit such as mango, pineapple, and papaya is usually avoided.
    • Desserts are permitted in moderation, approximately two to three times per week. Desserts can be enjoyed by people who are in good health. Emphasize naturally sweet foods such as apples, squash, adzuki beans, and dried fruit. Natural sweeteners such as rice syrup, barley malt, and amazake can be used. Sugar, honey, molasses, chocolate, carob, and other sweeteners are avoided.
    • Cooking oil is typically unrefined vegetable oil. One of the most common oils used is dark sesame oil. Other oils that are recommended are light sesame oil, corn oil, and mustard seed oil.
    • Condiments and seasonings include natural sea salt, shoyu, brown rice vinegar, umeboshi vinegar, umeboshi plums, grated ginger root, fermented pickles, gomashio (roasted sesame seeds), roasted seaweed, and sliced scallions.
    Diet guidelines are individualized based on factors such as climate, season, age, gender, activity, and health needs.


    http://altmedicine.about.com/od/popu...acrobiotic.htm
    This is the embellished yuppy populist version. Sorry no offense.
    It is a great version though, just not purist macrobiotics.

    Even Ohsawa explains polution has made fish unacceptable in any quantity other than on rare occasions, specific species taken from specific seas at specific times of year. Not quite an easy task.

    Californians have a way of co-opting that's shameful at best.

  22. #22
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Mahk View Post
    Some leaders of the macrobiotic movement, including George Ohsawa himself, not only smoked cigarettes but also advocated smoking! The inhaled smoke, he claimed, had the "right color", so it was "safe". Maybe his Yin-yang-ometer, the device he would have used to determine whether a food or smoke was yin or yang, was mis-calibrated? Hmm...Either that or the divine cosmos which instructed him in such matters was playing a prank on him.

    He died of heart disease at the age of 72.

    Sources:

    http://www.cybermacro.com/macrobioti...y-collins.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet
    and was somewhat of a mystery even insisting unhusked brown rice be used..............no one ever understood this and he never explained himself but unhusked brown rice is not digestible, impervious to some of the most caustic acids on earth.

    As a child 11 and 12yo I had severe bronchitis and was treated with medical tobacco, nicotine and all, smoked. Go figure. It kept me from coughing long enough to heal (which was the point) and not get thrown out of public places for relentless coughing fits (which was secondary to healing) when with my family. At 13yo my severe chronic bronchitis was gone. My family had to explain more than once why their 11yo was smoking lucky strike looking cigarettes in a cigarette holder (mouth piece).

    (PS nicotine affects, dilates the upper airway muscles and paralyzes cilia, blah, blah ,blah, blah, I could go on and on. Bottom line is it has medical value. it's been experimented with concerning sleep apnea and other afflictions, the delivery systems have evolved past smoking it. There are also other legal theraputic smoking substances)

    Ohsawas family lineage was known to suffer from heart disease which is what lead him to macrobiotics and other studies of self help.

  23. #23
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post
    I get giddy with excitement when proving someone so wrong that when you look up wrong in the dictionary her tastefully sensual picture appears.
    Steven, we have these board rules about focusing on opinions, not people, and to treat others with respect, which btw. was referred to when someone reported this post as breaking our rules (See the FAQ, #6),

    Also, from #5; "Consider this forum a friendly dinner party where peaceful and polite people who are into veganism are invited "

    Regarding George Oshawa, he was pretty clear about this: even if you wanted to live on rice for only 10 days, you should make sure that you added sesame seeds and tamari (soy sauce).

    I have some of his books, and can't remember having seen statements a la "if one chose to live on brown rice alone one would live a long and healthy life". If this would have been the case, why did he suggest a brown rice diet for only 10 days, and also suggest that one should include soy and sesame products in that 10-day period? And - which of his books are you referring to?

    I appreciate that you want to contribute with facts, and we all try to correct ourselves (and others) if what we think are "pseudo-facts" have been posted (internet is full of them, and if they are quoted by others on other sites, they appear as real facts) - but: remember that it's fully possible to do that without being rude.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  24. #24
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    AND I QUOTE !
    Some of Ohsawa's ideas, however, are hard for the beginner to understand and they can be open to misinterpretation. One of the most famous of these is the idea of "Number 7 diet", consisting of almost 100 percent brown rice, being the "highest level" of diet.
    In the 1960s, someone had died from trying to follow this diet - but the person was a hippie who also took drugs - and this gave macrobiotics a bad name. However, if one considers what many poor, rural people in Asia eat, it is actually close to Ohsawa's "Number 7 diet".
    I would recommend Ohsawa's books only for the more advanced students of macrobiotics.
    What's new is that the concept of yin and yang has been modified - in some cases totally turned around - to make it easier for modern people to understand.
    Link of references:http://www.richardseah.com/macrobiotics/macteach.html

    Oshsawa suggested ten days of brown rice (to the average enthusiast) because he believed it to hard for the average person to stick to a lifetime diet of brown rice, so the suggestion was made because Oshsawa believed a persons body replaced it's blood with new blood about every 7 days so a ten day fast of just rice would cleanse the body of all toxins. That's where the ten day reference you mentioned comes from.

    Again, I'd quote the book (You are all Sanpaku) but I recently threw it out do to it's condition. I'll be picking up another copy soon and will post the page and paragraph of the quote. Remember though that each print is a translation and will differ in content, but I will try my hardest to find it.

    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post
    Yes but with herbs and vegetable mixtures as well.
    Quote Vegan_Steven View Post


    Adding occasional fruits and vegetables to the diet would round it out with Vitamin A and C.

    In Japan they call rice with vegetables, whether steamed or fresh, rice salad.
    And as you can see I've explained in earlier posts that I would round out such a diet with what I believe to be the necessary additional ingredients to make it what I believe to be a healthy diet.

    Also, I don't blindly follow the teachings of George Oshsawa hypnotized by his every word as in life I learn and take with me what I believe to be the best information. As an example He suggested fish (if anything) as a complete addition to the grains only diet but this was before fish was known to contain high levels of mercury and other neurotoxins. Also his main reasons for adding soy and sesame was mostly (not the only reason!) for taste so one would not fail on the rice only diet (the other reason was for salt, he felt salt was the main life mineral going as far as saying salt was the very thing responsible for human existence). He also claimed some fruits and some vegetables were totally off limits which is where I mostly disagree with him as you can see by my earlier posts. They must be organic though for an organic rice only diet to work.


    Macrobiotic Diet Number 7
    George Ohsawa, who introduced macrobiotics to the West in the 1950s and 1960s, actually wrote about such a "100 percent grain” diet.
    In his book Zen Macrobiotics, George Oshawa introduced the idea of seven levels of diet whereby the proportion of whole grains increases until the highest level, called Diet Number 7, where whole grains form nearly 100 percent.
    George Oshawa, in fact, had three other levels, called Diet Number Minus 1, Minus 2 and Minus 3, which described the typical modern diet of junk foods.
    This idea of a Diet Number 7 was misunderstood by some people – particularly the Hippies – during the 1960s. Some thought they could attain spiritual development and enlightenment by following such a diet.
    They switched suddenly to it without making a transition through the other levels. They also continued taking marijuana, LSD and other drugs while eating only whole grains.
    One or two of them died. As a result, macrobiotics got a bad name and macrobiotic centres were raided by US health authorities.
    But in rural societies, many poor people eat such a diet without problems.
    source of quotes: http://www.natural-cancer-cures.com/whole-grains.html

    And in the book You Are All Sanpaku (not Zen Macrobiotics) Oshsawa stated that if you were to choose one grain to live on it should be rice.

    In fact, some poor people in countries like China, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines and elsewhere can afford to eat only rice with, perhaps, soy sauce or some other seasoning, or a bit of pickles. Their diet consists of nearly 100 percent grains! And they are generally healthy.

    As response to your suggestion that I check my attitude I can only apologize and submit that people who haven't read entire Oshsawa books on the subject and then also make additional claims that brown rice lack omegas there by suggesting I am a fraud in my beliefs appear to be in an attack mode against said beliefs. Such people are in abundance on the internet and hard to stomach after the ten thousanth uneducated guess attack. Additionally there is a member/members in these forums who routinely and rudely attack/attacks peoples posts with no warnings given to them what so ever,( I'll look for some user names and post them ) you can blame those people for getting me in what appears to be attack position, again, my apologies, I'll be careful to remain neutral in the future. Get back to you on those screen names. Thanks

    Update: After further research here are two (there are others as well) of the screen names (Risker and CobWeb) and the location of examples of the attack posts(http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16589&page=3) I endured when I first joined. An attack post I endured while totally trying to defuse the attack you'll notice (in the thread) because being attacked on the internet got old many years ago and is now the reason I rarely post here.


    I think I've explained myself Humbly and thoroughly.

    Again I'll try harder to be as neutral as possible (during the little time I spend here do to attack posts filled with erroneous information) thanks.

  25. #25
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Again, I'd quote the book (You are all Sanpaku) but I recently threw it out do to it's condition. I'll be picking up another copy soon and will post the page and paragraph of the quote. Remember though that each print is a translation and will differ in content, but I will try my hardest to find it.
    Try Amazon - they sell it, and also have links to many shops who sell it used for less than $1!
    (You can even read inside the book, on Amazon, without buying it).



    Regarding misundferstandings etc. you may have had with other members, please don't use this thread to report that. Please use the report function with specific links to specific posts if you feel that you haven't been treated with respect.

    Maybe one of Oshawa's suggested diet plans ("#7") consisted on almost only brown rice, but he is known for having promoted a macrobiotic diet to the Western world, and if you look at any macrobiotic cookbook, you know that the diet he promoted used lots of plants besides brown rice - which, again, weren't even exclusively suggested for the ten day rice cleansing. THe 1+ day plan includes sesame seeds and tamari.

    I have done a 5 day rice "fast" three times, long time ago, and every time I just felt that it was wrong to do this for even 10 days only. Maybe such a 10 day fast can function well for someone who will use it therapeutic/for certain diseases, but that wasn't my motivation - I just wanted to see what kind of effect it had on me.

    I haven't seen Oshawa or any other macrobiotic teacher suggest that the macrobiotic diet they promote is only a substitute for eating almost brown rice only, for life because he/they "believed it to hard for the average person to stick to a lifetime diet of brown rice". If I ever would have seen such a suggestion, I wouldn't have had much interest in macrobiotics at all. The world is full of nutritious, tasty plants, and that we should live on a diet consisting of almost exclusively one of them make so sense at all to me. It's also boring.

    Even if the 10 day rice plan may cure diseases, which some people say it can, that doesn't mean that the same food would be ideal model for a life long diet.

    From what I have read in macrobiotic literature, one should eat plants according to the proportions they appear in nature, in the current season - meaning that if you live in a place where very sweet fruits don't grow, you shouldn't eat such fruits. If you live a place where a lot of wild rice is growing, you should eat a lot of wild rice - and so on. That kind of makes sense (with some exceptions), but doesn't explain why macrobiotic people people in Northern countries were eating all this rice they did.

    Macrobiotic literature and recipes are fill of miso, goma-sio, seaweeds, aduki beans, tamari, kuzu, umeboshi plums, shiitake mushrooms and so on, and AFAIK never mention something a la "please avoid even these plants if you are able to do it".


    Certified Fitness Trainer and Nutritional Technologist.
    What is a certified nutritional technologist?


    As response to your suggestion that I check my attitude I can only apologize and submit that people who haven't read entire Oshsawa books on the subject and then also make additional claims that brown rice lack omegas there by suggesting I am a fraud in my beliefs appear to be in an attack mode against said beliefs.
    I'm not sure what you mean, but since it both seems that neither of us have read all the Oshawa books, and also because one is of course entitled to have an opinion about Omega 3 (etc) levels in brown rice without knowing who George Oshawa was, does it really make sense to suggest that people are in 'attack mode' if they don't think brown rice contains 'omegas'? If you think it does, please post your source!
    Last edited by Korn; Apr 14th, 2009 at 09:28 AM.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  26. #26
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Korn View Post
    I appreciate that you want to contribute with facts, and we all try to correct ourselves (and others) if what we think are "pseudo-facts" have been posted (internet is full of them, and if they are quoted by others on other sites, they appear as real facts) - but: remember that it's fully possible to do that without being rude.
    Actually I get most of my information from books, but yes I google to when I need information quickly.

    Further more Amazon skips every other page and only go's then, up to pg 68, thanks I'm 47 years old and don't need to be lead by the hand.

    Additionally the person (claiming to be a nutritional researcher and therefor an expert) stated that there were no omegas in brown rice then went on to say that there were negligable amounts.......... which a simple google search of accurate nutritional facts will prove wrong.

  27. #27
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Korn View Post
    Regarding misundferstandings etc. you may have had with other members, please don't use this thread to report that. Please use the report function with specific links to specific posts if you feel that you haven't been treated with respect.

    about Omega 3 (etc) levels in brown rice without knowing who George Oshawa was, does it really make sense to suggest that people are in 'attack mode' if they don't think brown rice contains 'omegas'? If you think it does, please post your source!
    Then please don't scold me in a thread.

    And if you read back a few posts I posted my source on omegas which is a simple nutritional fact page.

    Further more I don't read embellished western macrobiotic literature, I read George Oshawa on the subject and that's it. Additionally my book was an original print translation that would crumble when touched, a one of a kind translation (Oshsawa was translated by many publishers who translated out many different interpretations)

  28. #28
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    What you just quoted was a comment to "I get giddy with excitement when proving someone so wrong that when you look up wrong in the dictionary her tastefully sensual picture appears."

    You have a signature which makes it appear as nutrition is your profession, so you shouldn't need to struggle find finding in old Oshawa book to back up your facts. I know there's limited access to books when using Amazon's "Look Inside" feature, but the book you mention can be bought from several book stores for as little as $0.01 (!!!) + shipping.

    PS - I'm sure we agree that something isn't true just because Oshawa wrote it in some of his books. ;-)
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  29. #29
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Korn View Post
    You have a signature which makes it appear as nutrition is your profession, so you shouldn't need to struggle find finding in old Oshawa book to back up your facts.I know there's limited access to books when using Amazon's "Look Inside" feature, but the book you mention can be bought from several book stores for as little as $0.01 (!!!) + shipping.

    PS - I'm sure we agree that something isn't true just because Oshawa wrote it in some of his books. ;-)
    Yes, I'll find one although it's not first on my to do list.

    Yes we can agree that somethings aren't true just because Oshsawa wrote it which I've previously stated multiple times.

    I've had a fitness and a nutriton certificate for 10 years from the International Sports Science Association which is all my signature was meant to suggest.

  30. #30
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote ellaminnowpea View Post
    After some period of time on a brown rice diet, you're likely to suffer from protein-energy-malnutrition such as marasmus or kwashiorkor. Severe protein and electrolyte depletion will cause your body to destroy your muscles (your HEART is a muscle) and leads to kidney and heart failure. I'd urge you to research this type of diet thoroughly before you cause yourself severe health problems.
    One 1/4 cup of short grain brown rice has 4 grams of protein, that's 16 grams per cup, most Pacific Islanders eat double or triple that amount of white rice in one day which contains as much protein which amounts to 32 to 38 grams of protein in one day. The western philosophy that a grown adult male needs 50 or more grams per day is ludicrous coming from a people who claim red meat and cheese are part of the 4 main food groups and produce the most obese diabetic, heart diseased populations on earth.

    Additionally, 80 to 130 pound Pacific Islanders would hardly need as much(more like 10 to 20 grams per day).

    Further more I was a vegan body builder for 9 years and my peers suggested that body builders need 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day to build muscle. I proved them wrong by producing enormous amounts of muscle in the range of ingesting 30 to 50 grams of protein per day. Considering the average body will only utilize 28 grams of protein per digestive cycle which is between 4 to 6 hours or more depending on metabolism, 270 grams which is what I would have needed acording to them would be impossible to achieve and no I didn't use steroids which wouldn't matter anyway because you still need protein to produce new muscle, steroids or not, steroids just help you synthesize more protein better. Proof positive of the over ingestion of protein by western body builders is the amount of protein waste an average body builder produces in the form of gas and feces.

    PS to much protein can cause renal failure to.

    Also Oshsawa also felt that brown rice was the most acid/alkaline balanced grain on earth.



    In conclusion I can't help but feel that anyone suggesting that additional fluoride in a western diet is desirable may be confused with their facts. Fluoride, in rare cases only needed by children(and even that's debatable), is actually added to most western water supplies (and toothpaste) and then therefor trickles down into every part of the food chain. Much to much fluoride.
    A Canadian Government report found fluoridation does more harm than good. A US National Institutes of Health Panel found most tooth decay studies, including hundreds on fluoride, scientifically invalid.
    If you could quote me a scientific double blind study (other than the popular non scientific non double blind western one done in the 40's) that says people need fluoride ( a contaminated waste product of industry) in any form or amount I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

  31. #31
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Exactly why my long term goal is a brown rice diet.
    Certified Fitness Trainer and Nutritional Technologist.
    Hi again,
    you give the impression that a 'brown rice diet' is something that's recommendable from a nutritional point of view (Not only as a temp. solution for health problems), and that you are a nutritional technologist. I see this as potentially dangerous information. I have never read about or seen anyone document that one can live a healthy life on a brown rice diet. If you can document that, please do so - and if nutrition technology isn't your profession, please don't use that signature.
    Last edited by Korn; Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:31 AM.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  32. #32
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Korn View Post
    Hi again,
    you give the impression that a 'brown rice diet' is something that's recommendable from a nutritional point of view, and that you are a nutritional technologist. I see this as potentially dangerous information. I have never read about or seen anyone document that one can live a healthy life on a brown rice diet. If you can document that, please do so - and if nutrition technology isn't your profession, please don't use that signature.
    Hi there , I was a professional fitness trainer and nutritional technologist for 8 years and still hold my certifications but currently don't work in the industry, if that doesn't qualify me as a certified fitness trainer and nutritional technologist than I can't imagine what would. Further more I don't claim to be a nutritionist which requires a 4 to 6 year degree in nutrition from an accredited college or university (although the ISSA is accredited)

    and no I don't suggest a brown rice diet is recommended for anyone..............except me if I choose to follow such a diet..............and I've never recommended it for anyone but me........ throughout this entire thread

  33. #33
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    and no I don't suggest a brown rice diet is recommended for anyone..............except me if I choose to follow such a diet
    Does this mean that you think that you have other nutritional needs than everybody else?

    Anyway, we'll change the board rules this week; anyone who claims to be any kind of professional health pratctioner - doctor, nutritionist, nutritional technologist will be required to use their real names.

    I'd still like to see any documentation you have seen of people who live on a brown rice diet for more than just a short period of their life without getting health problems.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  34. #34
    Vegan_Steven
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Korn View Post
    Does this mean that you think that you have other nutritional needs than everybody else?
    Yes. I do, we all do, everyone is different.

    I know a 44 year old Pakistani woman that has never tasted meat or dairy and doesn't use any B12 supplements and she doesn't follow any strict health diets. Does she have different b12 needs than everyone else?? I guess so. Probably not though, she's probably deficient in b12 in all reality but she appears healthy...........see I'm a realist to.

    Anyway, we'll change the board rules this week; anyone who claims to be any kind of professional health pratctioner - doctor, nutritionist, nutritional technologist will be required to use their real names.
    When you change the rules I'll change my signature. Until then, I've earned my title but would be silly to post my real name in any internet forum.

    I'd still like to see any documentation you have seen of people who live on a brown rice diet for more than just a short period of their life without getting health problems.
    Well, if you hit one of the many links I produced you'll see documentation alluding that some Pacific Islanders may live on nothing but rice, anymore than that and I'll have to hit a large science library for a couple weeks.

  35. #35
    Mahk
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote Korn View Post
    What is a certified nutritional technologist?
    For only $595 you to can become one. Simply pay them the money here and they will ship you the text books. All the exams are done in home, on-line, at your own pace, are "open book", and are un-timed. Once you have completed 65% of these they will send you the final exam. The only other requirement is that you must complete it all within 2 years. If you act now, you can save $100 off the normal price and they'll send you 2 free audio CDs with more information.

    Learn more here.

  36. #36

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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    this comment is a little late i realize... but maybe someone will read it?
    I have recently become interested in macrobiotics. not as a permanent lifestyle or anything, but more as a healing tool. a strict macrobiotic diet was always intended as a healing diet and not as a lifelong commitment. the basic diet is based on the idea of flexibility. it's all very interesting. i love the idea of thinking of my food in terms of energy!

  37. #37
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Oshawa & the macrobiotic diet

    Quote BonnieParker View Post
    a strict macrobiotic diet was always intended as a healing diet and not as a lifelong commitment.
    Are you 100% sure about that?

    http://www.amazon.com/Macrobiotic-Wa.../dp/1583331808
    http://www.macrobiotics.nl/library/macrobiotics4.html
    http://www.9starki.com/shiawase.htm
    http://macrobiotics.co.uk/history.htm

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