PeTA goes lesbian

[Sarabi]

http://www.womanist-musings.com/2009...s-lesbian.html

Ugh. For those who deny how f-ed up it is that PeTA marginilizes people on the basis of race, try this. I am not a person of color - I am half-"white," half-Taiwanese, and grew up in more or less mainstream white culture. I have not much been marginilized on the basis of race. I don't identify with PeTA's naked women. I don't identify as "lesbian," despite what people would like to call me. But I really take this personally. I feel I am strongly being objectified now, marginilized again.

Thanks, PeTA. Thanks for fortifying the idea that my love needs a man.

By the way, I doubt that women who ARE attracted to women would lie there smiling about how much they need a guy peeking over their shoulders. I have read way, way, WAY too many stories of women feeling disinterested in men and getting into threesomes in order to realize their true feelings toward women, NOT the other way around.

[harpy]

Sigh - perhaps they have set themselves the task of offending as many groups as possible in the shortest time?

They seem to be having an anti foie gras campaign here which is more to the point, though it too seemed to involve the campaigners taking their clothes off for no obvious reason:

http://www.hippyshopper.com/2009/02/...valentine.html

[horselesspaul]

http://www.womanist-musings.com/2009...s-lesbian.html

I liked this comment: "National PeTA campaigns are made of fail'.
Nothing the average red meat eating man seems to like more than a bit of lezzing up, very thought provoking, not. Vegetarians have better sex? That's really going to get them off their steak. Most of them probably just toss themselves off to images like the ones PeTA provide.
People do actually get paid money that could go to no kill shelters, for instance, to "think" up this inane rubbish.

[Sarabi]

"Vegetarians have better sex? That's really going to get them off their steak."

I know... last year my university had a ball when the Georgetown University Grilling Society (GUGS, pronounced "jugs") decided to put on their shirts for an event "Grills Gone Wild" with some kind of offensive picture. There was a brand new feminist group on campus, and they really "went wild" taking that down. It was treating women "like a piece of meat," they said.

First of all, men (or women) who objectify women are treating women like meat... to be consumed and devoured sheerly on the basis of taste. So how is this helpful???

Secondly, treating women like MEAT? That's right. Don't even mention treating ANIMALS like a piece of meat.

It also reinforces the perception of meat as masculine - as well as the objectification of female-female relationships.

[terem]

Vegetarians make better lovers is not a valid argument for turning omnis into veggies.

"Once again Fail, Fail, Fail."

Agreed.

[veganista]

.

[Mahk]

{duplicate post deleted]

[Zero]

We'll just have to start an abolitionist organization, with better and more informative bumper stickers!

[Mahk]

There are zillions of things I don't like about PeTA but that blogger seems to be reading into things a bit:

Racism? PeTA showed pictures of American slaves in chains as being analogous to elephants at the circus in chains and the slaves in the photograph happened to be black. Hello? That's the race that was kept as slaves here. This makes PeTA racist? Or are we supposed to pretend that slavery never existed or that it was multicultural? Puh-leez.

"Thanks for fortifying the idea that my love needs a man."

Um, you get that from this photograph of three people smiling for a photographer off camera right, two of which are holding up political signs?


What I got out of it is that people who wear glasses are unattractive/inferior, should be shunned, and don't deserve to be loved or have comfortable bedding for sleep. Let's add eyeglassphobic to the long list of phobes PeTA has been accused of. We now have photographic evidence.

---

Misogynistic? No, PeTA hates/marginalizes men also:



So I guess they hate everyone equally.

[petunia]

We'll just have to start an abolitionist organization, with better and more informative bumper stickers!

Yes, lets do it!!

I love the write up of the person who posted the article on whatever website that was; it was passionate and hilarious. Awesome...

[Sarabi]

Mahk, I am going to ignore most of your post because it's not worth responding to, but with regard to the naked male, can you tell me why I never see that shit on the front page of PETA if it's so "equal"? Because naked males are probably only 5% of the naked photographs PETA puts on its website. Not that I support any of that anyway. If they just did a few images like that - without discrimination - and without adding a title like "Sexiest PETA-lover on earth," then it would be *somewhat* different.

Originally Posted by Zero
We'll just have to start an abolitionist organization, with better and more informative bumper stickers!
Yes, lets do it!!

I love the write up of the person who posted the article on whatever website that was; it was passionate and hilarious. Awesome...

Do you know about the Boston Vegan Association. They're an abolitionist group, with whom I've been in touch. They advised me to start totally from the ground up and just flier to find people interested in starting an abolitionist group in the city. I think it's a brilliant idea! At the moment I am running a highly visible and open campaign on a campus virtually devoid of vegans. And I only know one person who MIGHT be abolitionist. So that would be useless on campus, but I could try in the city. I feel like it would be better to get together a core group of abolitionists than to try talking to meat-eaters and vegetarians all by myself.

[Mahk]

For those who deny how f-ed up it is that PeTA marginilizes people on the basis of race....

Hold up, wait a minute. Please teach me how they do this. I am unaware of any evidence regarding racism on their part. [Not to imply I consider myself well read on the topic, at all. So I'm kindly asking for some education, please.] "This blogger says so." isn't evidence, obviously, unless it points to third party info. I don't blindly follow anyone. If you show me they are racist then I will believe they are racist.

Mahk, I am going to ignore most of your post because it's not worth responding to...

So are you saying you agree with me then? Calling an organization racist without grounds is unacceptable, reprehensible behavior, right?

with regard to the naked male, can you tell me why I never see that shit on the front page of PETA if it's so "equal"? Because naked males are probably only 5% of the naked photographs PETA puts on its website.

I'm not a PeTA supporter, rarely visit their site, and will have to take your word for it that naked men ads are 5% and naked women are 95%. I retract my use of the word "equal" then, sorry, my mistake. I guess not until the balance is 50/50 should they have a case that they are not more heavily misogynist on the "hatred of the two sexes" scale. That is to say I'd agree they do seem to hate/marginalize women more than they hate/marginalize men currently based on your 5/95 ratio data. [On a side note, my understanding is that Vogue magazine covers are even worse, more misogynist that is, in terms of that naked/scantily-clad gender balance/scale.]

[Zero]

Do you know about the Boston Vegan Association. They're an abolitionist group, with whom I've been in touch. They advised me to start totally from the ground up and just flier to find people interested in starting an abolitionist group in the city. I think it's a brilliant idea! At the moment I am running a highly visible and open campaign on a campus virtually devoid of vegans. And I only know one person who MIGHT be abolitionist. So that would be useless on campus, but I could try in the city. I feel like it would be better to get together a core group of abolitionists than to try talking to meat-eaters and vegetarians all by myself.

Indeed, they are excellent. They also have a great pamphlet.

Bob and Jenna Torres (authors and hosts of Vegan Freak Radio podcasts) have also made some noises about doing this with anyone who wants to get involved.

Seriously it would be great to get a large network of people together that could help educate and draw more people in, then you'd likely be able to find more local people easier with that kind of presence.

[Sarah_]

I agree with Mahk. It's a picture of two women kissing. The point is that vegetarians make better lovers. If anything, I would think they were glorifying lesbianism. They've put two beautiful women in front of a camera because they know that sex sells and people are attracted to it. They imply that these people are better lovers through their lack of meat eating, and they add a man in there so that people at a glance understand that vegetarianism isn't just something for women. I see nothing wrong with this, other than the argument that PETA is objectifying women in the same way that tv shows, magazines, movies, strip clubs, and porn objectifies women. The funny thing is that these women signed up to do this.

Where could you possibly get the idea that they're proverbially stomping on lesbians?

[Risker]

I don't think the photo with the guy in it is even meant to be part of the shoot, especially as it's taken from the side. I completely agree with all the points Mahk made and TBH I don't see what there is to be annoyed about. Lesbophobic? I think it's completely the opposite, the image called for 2 lovers in bed and they both happen to be women, what's the problem?

EDIT: Just re-read the first post, racist? WTF?

[puca]

First of all, men (or women) who objectify women are treating women like meat... to be consumed and devoured sheerly on the basis of taste. So how is this helpful???

Secondly, treating women like MEAT? That's right. Don't even mention treating ANIMALS like a piece of meat.

It also reinforces the perception of meat as masculine - as well as the objectification of female-female relationships.

Totally.

Never had much time for PETA, I've always found their campaigns either unintelligent, or offensive.

I pretty much lost respect for them when they started pushing heteronormative beauty standards on people, with their modelling competitions.

[snivelingchild]

um....most of the people I've seen on the finalists of their sexiest vegetarian comps were actually outside of normal beauty standards from my opinion. Lots of piercings, tattoos, and people as far as tan as you can get. Very diverse.

And of course people objectify female-female relationships. It's hot. Sex is fun people. It's only not fun when sexual attention is not wanted. You want to climb into bed with another girl in public to support animal rights? (I'd do it) Then obviously it doesn't bother you.

[EmilySequoy]

The first picture wasn't offensive, just typical and pointless. Most companies know sex sells and use it. Plus, it's just a picture of two girls kissing--nothing to do with vegetarianism, pers se.

The second I can't say much about. It seems like an average girl just holding up something she thinks is witty.

The third makes me roll my eyes, but again, it's typical "sex sells" stuff. This is probably the one I dislike the most. It is a common fantasy with a guy to see two girls "experimenting." As a lesbian, I do sometimes get creepy guys approaching me with this fantasy, and it's a common stereotype gay women get. We all have our fantasies, and are entitled to them, but sometimes people try to take them too far in real situations. I once had a guy approach me in a rusty car at a gas station (in pink fuzzy slippers) hit on me. I told him I was a lesbian, and he started talking to me about making lesbian "videos."

I'm not sure how this is racist, though... could you please clarify?

[EmilySequoy]

and they add a man in there so that people at a glance understand that vegetarianism isn't just something for women.

Do you mean that they are selling the threesome fantasy in terms of "sex sells" to appeal veganism to males? If so, I'd say INDEED!

But saying that they are just simply plopping a guy casually in there with a couple of hot babes to make a last minute statement about male-friendliness would be naive. Let's be honest folks, people don't sit by cute models for nothing!

Please don't take this as if I'm taking a potshot at you personally, but I'm not sure I agree with that quote.

[Sarah_]

Well, can't please 'em all! As this PETA demostration obviously suggests. lol

[EmilySequoy]

Well, can't please 'em all! As this PETA demostration obviously suggests. lol

Agreed.

[Kate1978]

Do you mean that they are selling the threesome fantasy in terms of "sex sells" to appeal veganism to males? If so, I'd say INDEED!

All the sexist stereotyping of PeTA's campaigns gets a big *yawn* from me. It's all they know, bless 'em.

[Windfall]

I don't see what the big fuss is about really. PeTA is PeTA and have been doing this for years in various ways. It's nudity to stop people in the tracks, they're not the only ones doing it. Sex sells, apparanlty, cause if it didn't most compaines would stop.
It's not ideal but I'm too used to it to pay any attention.

I'm bi - does that ad upset me? Nah
Billboard of models in skimpy underwear? Nah not really
That every woman meant to be swedish in films have phony accents, blonde plaits and wear dutch cloggs? N...a bit =P

[EmilySequoy]

I don't see what the big fuss is about really. PeTA is PeTA and have been doing this for years in various ways. It's nudity to stop people in the tracks, they're not the only ones doing it. Sex sells, apparanlty, cause if it didn't most compaines would stop.
It's not ideal but I'm too used to it to pay any attention.

I'm bi - does that ad upset me? Nah
Billboard of models in skimpy underwear? Nah not really
That every woman meant to be swedish in films have phony accents, blonde plaits and wear dutch cloggs? N...a bit =P

I think everyone here knows PETA's selling tactics are not new. Nor is anyone surprised. I just think everyone is expressing how tired of it they are.

Personally speaking, whether it's PETA or not, I'm personally annoyed with the threesome-with-lesbians fantasy.

There's nothing wrong about sharing one's experiences or pet peeves.

[Windfall]

[QUOTE=EmilySequoy;581759

There's nothing wrong about sharing one's experiences or pet peeves.[/QUOTE]



I don't think so either, that was just MY opinion on it.

[Windfall]

oops double-post

[snivelingchild]

I'm personally annoyed with the threesome-with-lesbians fantasy.

I'm confused. Are you saying you are a annoyed when someone fantasizes about being with two women at once, or with the straight male wanting to "turn lesbians straight" aspect of men fantasizing specifically about being with gay women?

[EmilySequoy]

It seems like a combination of both.

There are straight men that approach gay women, and once the woman expresses that she is gay, the men often express they find that a turn on and want to sleep with them and another woman. It seems that there are some men that don't understand that me being gay does not mean I want to go home them and their girlfriend. They don't understand that being a lesbian in reality is not the same as seeing a threesome in certain forms of media.

There are many good men that are understanding and supportive, but yes, lesbians do get approached by people like this (read my above post).

Thereare straight and bisexual couples that like swinging and that is none of my business. If it's between consenting adults, go for it. But when I say "I'm gay," I mean I'm gay, I do not want to go home and make videos with you or whatever.

[puca]

It seems like a combination of both.

There are straight men that approach gay women, and once the woman expresses that she is gay, the men often express they find that a turn on and want to sleep with them and another woman. It seems that there are some men that don't understand that me being gay does not mean I want to go home them and their girlfriend. They don't understand that being a lesbian in reality is not the same as seeing a threesome in certain forms of media.

There are many good men that are understanding and supportive, but yes, lesbians do get approached by people like this (read my above post).

Thereare straight and bisexual couples that like swinging and that is none of my business. If it's between consenting adults, go for it. But when I say "I'm gay," I mean I'm gay, I do not want to go home and make videos with you or whatever.

I think it can be interpretted in a way, that some people don't take same sex couples as seriously as other kinds of couples. Hence two chicks together must really be waiting for a porking... Double the trophies.

At the same time, I think maybe some men genuinely are that ignorant. I mean how much lesbian representation do we have?

[Kate1978]

^ it's such a cliché isn't it? I find the male fantasy about lesbians amusing, that somehow they are going to say "come join us, let's have a threesome". Er, no, they're LESBIANS, by definition they are not interested in men.

But hey I guess the point about fantasies is that they are just that, not reality. Dream on guys!

[EmilySequoy]

^ it's such a cliché isn't it? I find the male fantasy about lesbians amusing, that somehow they are going to say "come join us, let's have a threesome". Er, no, they're LESBIANS, by definition they are not interested in men.

But hey I guess the point about fantasies is that they are just that, not reality. Dream on guys!

Exactly. If you want a fantasy, keep it in your own business with the appropriate people. Some people don't know where that line is drawn--between fantasy and reality. And thus, they don't understand my comfort boundaries. They don't understand that two chicks being done in a video by a guy is not lesbianism. So they don't get that when I say "No, I'm gay," that means I do not do guys. It does not mean, "No, but I'll indulge your threesome fanstasy anyways."

[Sarabi]

Thank you, Emily. I have this straight male friend who opposes gay marriage and homosexuality, and every time I mention something about a gay or bisexual woman, he makes lewd jokes. He'll say, "Menage a trois!" For some reason, that's funny, but homosexuality is against God in his mind. He says it's because male and female were physically made to be together. And apparently menage a trois with two women and a guy is superior under God.

I am reading a really, really amazing paper that talks about how oppressed groups "willingly enforce oppressive standards upon themselves," such as women wearing high heals or dieting despite the ill effects upon their health. Or having threesomes just because their man wants to see them with a woman.

A Feminist Analysis of Animal Rights and PETA
http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_m.../p242225-1.php

[Windfall]

Thank you, Emily. I have this straight male friend who opposes gay marriage and homosexuality, and every time I mention something about a gay or bisexual woman, he makes lewd jokes. He'll say, "Menage a trois!" For some reason, that's funny, but homosexuality is against God in his mind. He says it's because male and female were physically made to be together. And apparently menage a trois with two women and a guy is superior under God.

Gah I just can't tolerate behaviour like that, I have also heard it, so many times..