Vegan for Lent

[Sarabi]

Had a conversation with my Catholic vegetarian friend at breakfast yesterday about what to do for Lent. I told him, "You know what I'm gonna say." He just said he is going vegan for Lent.

[sandra]

That's great Sarabi!

Let's hope this is the beginning of a new vegan life for him!

[Hemlock]

Thats nice but it's a pity veganism is always seen as some kind of big sacrifice rather than something normal.

[sandra]

It is a pity, but hopefully Sarabi's friend will now find out just how easy being vegan can be and spread the word!

[Sarabi]

Thats nice but it's a pity veganism is always seen as some kind of big sacrifice rather than something normal.

But this is great! I wish I were Catholic so I could participate in Lent! Lent seems like a great way to develop self-discipline. And heck, veganism is a sacrifice, whether it's normal or not. It's sacrificing certain privileges, or certain indulgences. Something you want to hold on to. What's a pity is that we see sacrifice as something abnormal or undesirable. Only by giving up the things we want to hold on to can we cease wanting them.

[horselesspaul]

And heck, veganism is a sacrifice, whether it's normal or not. It's sacrificing certain privileges, or certain indulgences.

Veganism is not a sacrifice. Eschewing torture and slavery of our fellow beings in favour of a healthy, balanced, ethical life can only be an embracement rather than a sacrifice.

[seamus]

it is a sacrafice. a major one at that.

[horselesspaul]

What are you sacrificing exactly?

[1gentlemaorispirit]

But this is great! I wish I were Catholic so I could participate in Lent! Lent seems like a great way to develop self-discipline. And heck, veganism is a sacrifice, whether it's normal or not. It's sacrificing certain privileges, or certain indulgences. Something you want to hold on to. What's a pity is that we see sacrifice as something abnormal or undesirable. Only by giving up the things we want to hold on to can we cease wanting them.

Why is vegamism a sacrifice? Surely the killing of defenceless animals is a sacrifice, of their lives?! By being vegan we are helping to save these animals lives!!!

[seamus]

its not the damned animal rights claptrap.
its THE SACRIFICE OF ROUTINE. OF WHAT YOURE USED TO.
of what the 'norm' of social interactions, the way in wich people are going to start treating you diffrently and so forth.

[1gentlemaorispirit]

its not the damned animal rights claptrap.
its THE SACRIFICE OF ROUTINE. OF WHAT YOURE USED TO.
of what the 'norm' of social interactions, the way in wich people are going to start treating you diffrently and so forth.

As for animals rights, I'm talking about LIFE in general!

Like any religious event, you only get out of Lent what you put into it. It's a personal thing and any Christain can partake in it. The main thing is when you give up something for Lent, you do it from the heart, and so I believe the word sacrifice is the wrong terminology.

[horselesspaul]

its not the damned animal rights claptrap.
its THE SACRIFICE OF ROUTINE. OF WHAT YOURE USED TO.
of what the 'norm' of social interactions, the way in wich people are going to start treating you diffrently and so forth.

No need to shout dude.
None of the things you mention are a sacrifice, merely changes. A sacrifice involves the deliberate refusal to do something despite its personal cost to you.

[Gorilla]

sacrifice? arse!!!

[horselesspaul]

Hahaha. I find Father Jack to be a great comfort, spiritually.

[1gentlemaorispirit]

Father Ted is brilliant!!!

[DarmokTheGreen]

Well, if anyone here decides to give up or sacrifice anything for Lent, let's hope it doesn't result in you seeing people as giant cigarettes, beer glasses or roller blades.

[Shrapnel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg-10vF5Xhs

=D

(I gave up alcohol for Lent last year, so I can totally relate =p).

[rianaelf]

I have no idea what lent is except by the meaning,
^I lent my friend a Terry Pratchet book^
and no way is being vegan a sacrifice in fact NOT being vegan is a sacrifice as it is in fact the sacrifice of innocent animals

[Shrapnel]

Had a conversation with my Catholic vegetarian friend at breakfast yesterday about what to do for Lent. I told him, "You know what I'm gonna say." He just said he is going vegan for Lent.

I'm glad he's giving it a shot. And if he manages to go 40 days vegan, he might see it as something he can do permanently.

I can see veganism as a sacrifice from where he's coming from, or most people. When you're raised eating certain things, it feels like a sacrifice to eschew it (and there is some difficulty due to society, like checking labels, finding substitutes and dealibng with annoying omnis). Same way that I'm guessing Mormons don't view refraining from alcohol or coffee as a sacrifice, though other people might. At any rate, I'm just glad this guy's trying it

[Shrapnel]

I have no idea what lent is except by the meaning,
^I lent my friend a Terry Pratchet book^
and no way is being vegan a sacrifice in fact NOT being vegan is a sacrifice as it is in fact the sacrifice of innocent animals

Short version: Lent is the 40 days between Ash Wednesday (which was yesterday) and Easter. Catholics (and some other Christian denominations) celebrate it usually through sacrifice of some sort, either giving up something they enjoy, or taking up additional service. There's also a fast in place, where Catholics are supposed to eat only three meals a day, two small meals and one larger one (though there's dispensation for people who have dietary needs that make this impractical, like physically demanding work). The tradition comes from the story in the Bible where Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert. Additionally, Ash Wednesday, Holy Week (from the friday before Easter Sunday to Easter) and every Friday, Catholics are supposed to refrain from alcohol and meat (though fish is allowed. This was more due to politics of the middle ages than anything else). More strict rules also disallowed dairy on these days, as it was, like meat, viewed as a luxury item.

(disclaimer: not saying you have to believe any of this yourself, just that's the whole story of the tradition).

[cedarblue]

sometimes taste can be a sacrifice. i don't eat certain things now because i'm vegan, but it's not because i didn't necessarily like the taste of those things - i did - and sometimes i still miss the taste of certain foods.

depending on your personal vegan story and reason for being one (and not everyone is vegan for the animals), it can be a seem a sacrifice to some initally at least, perhaps?

[Eat Y'self Fitter]

I haven't seen veganism as a sacrifice at all. I still go to the same supermarket and best of all I cook my own healthy lunch rather than relying on takeout in the university takeout place. I've learned to cook and eat better plus if I really want to its very easy to emulate certain flavors in a vegan way. I feel more complete as a vegan. The only thing I've given up through this is bad habits.

[Sarabi]

Guys, this is a petty argument. Whether or not it's a sacrifice is entirely based on how you view it. Usually, when people first GIVE UP something, they treat it like a sacrifice. If you try to deny it's GIVING UP something, I think you'll see how silly it is to deny that it's a sacrifice. Giving up something material ALWAYS has the potential to be a simple giving, a gift. Why people insist on viewing sacrifice as a negative thing I don't know, but I think it's a mere matter of culture. Western culture is clingy, clingy! So any time you hear the word "sacrifice," you think of blood dripping. That's not what sacrifice is from my Buddhist perspective, period. The point of sacrifice, in any culture though, should be to GIVE UP in order to GET... in this case, what you get isn't necessarily tangible. That doesn't make it any lesser. You don't just give up something for nothing... there is no point in denying that SLAVERY is built on a material gain that needs to be sacrificed for something more valuable.

[Buddha Belly]

But this is great! I wish I were Catholic so I could participate in Lent! Lent seems like a great way to develop self-discipline. And heck, veganism is a sacrifice, whether it's normal or not. It's sacrificing certain privileges, or certain indulgences. Something you want to hold on to. What's a pity is that we see sacrifice as something abnormal or undesirable. Only by giving up the things we want to hold on to can we cease wanting them.

I am not religous at all but have given up stuff for lent. It is probably as it is a set amount of time with clear goals and it gives me a chance to change a habit or trait. I see it as a good thing and have given up smoking in the knowledge that i will start again at 65. I probably will not but for some reason this was comforting when i was giving up. Anything i give up is usually for good and the lent time is sufficiant enough for people to do it in.

[mariana]

Guys, this is a petty argument. Whether or not it's a sacrifice is entirely based on how you view it. Usually, when people first GIVE UP something, they treat it like a sacrifice. If you try to deny it's GIVING UP something, I think you'll see how silly it is to deny that it's a sacrifice. Giving up something material ALWAYS has the potential to be a simple giving, a gift. Why people insist on viewing sacrifice as a negative thing I don't know, but I think it's a mere matter of culture. Western culture is clingy, clingy! So any time you hear the word "sacrifice," you think of blood dripping. That's not what sacrifice is from my Buddhist perspective, period. The point of sacrifice, in any culture though, should be to GIVE UP in order to GET... in this case, what you get isn't necessarily tangible. That doesn't make it any lesser. You don't just give up something for nothing... there is no point in denying that SLAVERY is built on a material gain that needs to be sacrificed for something more valuable.

I was going to ask after your first post if you were approaching it from a Buddhist perspective, because that's how I read it. I saw it as you saying that we all have attachments, and in this case it would be an attachment to meat/dairy, and giving that up (sacrificing) is a good thing, because you should strive to weaken your attachments. (Hope I interpreted your point correctly).

Merriam-Webster defines sacrifice as "surrender of something for the sake of something else." Veganism isn't "hard," but at first it can be difficult getting used to reading labels, figuring out what you can eat in restaurants, learning how to cook new dishes, etc. Even after you've been vegan while it's still difficult sometimes to find food on the go or to eat in omni restaurants. So most people do have to "surrender" something (like convenience), but you're doing it "for the sake of something else" (like the animals). Like Sarabi says, you give up something in order to gain something else, and I think veganism has many benefits (which outweigh any "costs," in my opinion). You get to discover new foods, meet new people (like awesome VFers ), feel at peace with yourself knowing you're doing what's right, etc. So sacrifice isn't necessarily a bad thing. I do think veganism can be a sacrifice (especially at first when one's getting used to it), but the gains far outweigh the costs. At least that's how I see it.

[horselesspaul]

Guys, this is a petty argument. Whether or not it's a sacrifice is entirely based on how you view it. Usually, when people first GIVE UP something, they treat it like a sacrifice. If you try to deny it's GIVING UP something, I think you'll see how silly it is to deny that it's a sacrifice. Giving up something material ALWAYS has the potential to be a simple giving, a gift. Why people insist on viewing sacrifice as a negative thing I don't know, but I think it's a mere matter of culture. Western culture is clingy, clingy! So any time you hear the word "sacrifice," you think of blood dripping. That's not what sacrifice is from my Buddhist perspective, period. The point of sacrifice, in any culture though, should be to GIVE UP in order to GET... in this case, what you get isn't necessarily tangible. That doesn't make it any lesser. You don't just give up something for nothing... there is no point in denying that SLAVERY is built on a material gain that needs to be sacrificed for something more valuable.

I see your point about semantics.
I have not "given up" anything, personally, since that has a connotation of negativity that is also why the term is advised against use by ex-tobacco smokers and the like.
I have sacrificed nothing. In twenty years of veganism only positive things have come to me from it. My family have always been supportive as have my friends, possibly because I never "preach". I do not miss any of the animal products I once used since they are utterly repugnant to me now. I understand how some may feel like they are missing out on some things they once enjoyed for some reason but I do not feel that way and would not like others to get the impression that veganism in any way has to involve rejection of things you like, want or need.
That's really what I meant by it not being a sacrifice. Something so easy and logical and entirely beneficial to me, the animals and the planet can surely not be considered a sacrifice.
x

[Sarabi]

I am not religous at all but have given up stuff for lent. It is probably as it is a set amount of time with clear goals and it gives me a chance to change a habit or trait. I see it as a good thing and have given up smoking in the knowledge that i will start again at 65. I probably will not but for some reason this was comforting when i was giving up. Anything i give up is usually for good and the lent time is sufficiant enough for people to do it in.

Well, it's something to consider. The thing is, I think it would be easier to give something up if I could go and tell people, "I am giving this up for Lent." But if I say that, I'll be barraged with questions like, "You're Catholic?" And then I'll have to say, "Practicing, but non-believing." But I have a feeling that won't go over too well... haha. I like Jesus, though. I actually need to update my calendar with Buddhist holidays, which I originally used to give up meat.

[Guate_Vegan]

Eh, as an ex-Catholic and hater of the Catholic church and everything it represents, I find lent stupid and lame and going 'vegetarian' is absolutely NO sacrifice, and going vegan is just what it should be for everyone, for EVER.

There. Maybe I'm just expressing my rage for Catholicism but either way, these traditions suck.

[Zero]

It should be called "Eating No Animal Products for Lent" or "Eating a Vegan Diet for Lent" because veganism (as you know) an ethical choice to live your life avoiding harming other sentient beings, dipping in and out of veganism is in no way the same thing.

However, I can see both sides - On one hand people are showing that veganism is something anyone can do and it can raise the profile a little....... but on the down side doing things like this make it look like some sort of diet or "cleanse", something that you wouldn't adhere to long term or is outside the norm.

[Shrapnel]

Eh, as an ex-Catholic and hater of the Catholic church and everything it represents, I find lent stupid and lame and going 'vegetarian' is absolutely NO sacrifice, and going vegan is just what it should be for everyone, for EVER.

There. Maybe I'm just expressing my rage for Catholicism but either way, these traditions suck.

O_o I guess you have your opinions... offensive as they may be.

[Sarabi]

It should be called "Eating No Animal Products for Lent" or "Eating a Vegan Diet for Lent" because veganism (as you know) an ethical choice to live your life avoiding harming other sentient beings, dipping in and out of veganism is in no way the same thing.

However, I can see both sides - On one hand people are showing that veganism is something anyone can do and it can raise the profile a little....... but on the down side doing things like this make it look like some sort of diet or "cleanse", something that you wouldn't adhere to long term or is outside the norm.

Yeah... that is a good point. But saying "Eating a Vegan Diet for Lent" is the same as saying "Going Vegan for Lent." Still, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Forty days sounds pretty good to me. When people tell me, "I went vegan for a week," I think that a week is not really enough time to go vegan, much less know what a long-term vegan lifestyle is like. It took me two weeks to really feel vegan. On the other hand, I am running a week-long campaign called Go Vegan Week, which is basically to introduce people to veganism. I doubt it will get anyone to actually go vegan right away, and the only requirement I am having for pledges is Go Vegan Day so it will be open to everyone. Maybe I should take the meat eaters' advice and change it to "Try Vegan Week," but even that sounds fake. It should be more like, "Intro to Vegan Week." "Plant-based consumption Week" Meh... I don't want to worry too much about specific words. I always liked "Go Vegan Week" because it's catchy.

[Shrapnel]

Yeah... that is a good point. But saying "Eating a Vegan Diet for Lent" is the same as saying "Going Vegan for Lent." Still, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Forty days sounds pretty good to me. When people tell me, "I went vegan for a week," I think that a week is not really enough time to go vegan, much less know what a long-term vegan lifestyle is like. It took me two weeks to really feel vegan. On the other hand, I am running a week-long campaign called Go Vegan Week, which is basically to introduce people to veganism. I doubt it will get anyone to actually go vegan right away, and the only requirement I am having for pledges is Go Vegan Day so it will be open to everyone. Maybe I should take the meat eaters' advice and change it to "Try Vegan Week," but even that sounds fake. It should be more like, "Intro to Vegan Week." "Plant-based consumption Week" Meh... I don't want to worry too much about specific words. I always liked "Go Vegan Week" because it's catchy.

I agree, Zero did make some good points. There is more to being vegan than just not eating meat, especially for a set time. I think there is the danger of it turning into a fad diet, where the ethical side is ignored.

As for the actual eating vegan for 40 days, I think 40 days is a good amount of time. I read that a month is about the amount of time needed to break a habit (while I'm not sure that there is a physical addiction to animal products, though I heard that there are chemicals in cheese that are addictive, I'm sure there can be a psychological addiction. That is, people love their meat and have an emotional attachment to meat, or dairy. This could take more than a week to let go of).

[Sarabi]

Shrapnel, I more or less agree. I think what I should do is also ask people to pledge to just, really, go vegan. Originally, I thought I would do like three weeks, but I wanted to do this now and knew I would not be able to run such a large campaign. Then someone suggested Go Vegan Day, so I took that and turned it into Go Vegan Week. And now I have completely forgotten about that and was just planning to ask people to pledge to go vegan for that day or that week, but I should add a pledge option of just Go Vegan.

[Zero]

I feel that there is often too much emphasis put on the diet with these things, to me the diet is the easy bit; but admittedly it doesn't seem that way to someone who is just going vegan as there is a learning curve, but yes vegan is a learning progression. You learn more and more about what items contain unethically sourced products as you go, luckily there are sites like this one, various groups and The Vegan Society to help.

The reason I say "Eating a Vegan Diet for Lent" is because those people are surely going continue to participate in non vegan activities and the purchasing of non vegan products during that time, so it isn't actually going vegan for lent, however if you want to call it something punchier for ease I certainly wouldn't criticize

Some people do go into veganism like it is some big sacrifice and they are usually the ones who go vegan for the wrong reasons.

They then become that wonderful "ex-vegan" whom many have us will have encountered within various social situations, such as work meals where what the vegan is eating suddenly becomes the most interesting topic. Generally the "ex-vegan" will end up with some crazy excuses like "I wasn't getting enough protein" or "It made me really sick because I need meat" or some such thing. This really annoys me because it makes many of the other people around you feel validated in their unethical lifestyles because they believe the excuses of the "ex-vegan" and seem to be looking over at the vegan at the table for signs that they may be about to get very ill from their "extreme" plant based diet

In my experience with "ex-vegans" I have found that they never really learned the ethical reasons for being vegan.

Lets face it the ethical argument is truly the only one that really stands up, people can talk themselves around the health or environmental reasons more easily..... However once one learns that participating in the torture and slaughter of other sentient life is wrong, it is very difficult to talk yourself past it just to fit the status quo.

It may sound harsh but basically my stance is "If you're not vegan now, you never really were". As I think I kind of said in a another thread previously, no one boycotts leather for health or environmental reasons.

I think "Introduction to Veganism Week" or something along those lines sounds good Sarabi, it seems like a good opening line from which you can jump comfortably into the ethical reasons.

Just my thoughts/opinions

[Sarabi]

Zero, I totally understand your perspective here as I have often thought that way in the past. Of course to be a genuine vegan I expect them to at least have a basic understanding of the ethical reasons behind it. My friend is vegetarian and was leaning vegan to begin with, consuming milk alternatives where convenient and always asking me if his meals were vegan. I will try to use his Lent period to help him understand the ethical side better so he won't go back to eating animal products.

However, veganism in practice IS the diet. I know that veganism is more than a practice. But how well do you think it would go over if I went up to a practicing, but not principled, person who referred to themself as vegan and said, "Excuse me, but you're not vegan until you admit that it's wrong to consume animal products"? Unless they're like a "vegan butcher" or something, I have a feeling that would rub them and any non-vegan witnesses the wrong way. If you want to do that, that's fine by me. But I am not that confrontational of a person. I might say something more like, "You know, technically veganism has always referred to a diet out of respect for animals," but I am not going to try very hard to stop them from doing that. The fact is that IF veganism is ever to become a mass movement, you cannot avoid people who are going to call themselves vegan when they've only given passing thought to the animals. But you need those people's support nonetheless. It's called diversity. The problem will be if they fight you and say, "I believe veganism is totally a personal choice and people should actually eat meat." Then I'd tell them, "You're not vegan, period."

Of course, alternatively, you could just coin a new term or say they live on a plant-based diet. I think that's cool, and I'm not arguing against it. Maybe we should do that, but I don't see anyone else doing it despite all the complaints. You have to have a way to describe them instead of just saying "you're not vegan." I've heard of them called "herbivores," an idea I like, but even the people who said they should be called that almost never use the term. Part of the problem I see with that, though, is that people may evolve fairly quickly from "herbivore" to "vegan."

By the way, I originally went vegetarian as a means of developing self-discipline. The thought of the animals was there because I was talking to veg*an Buddhists when I first went down that path, but it was something that only grew in me as I continued down that path. So I didn't go vegetarian for ethical reasons, although I did for veganism... I am just saying that ultimately what matters is that they keep the practice and have some amount of sympathy for animals as relates to their diet.

Anyway, "ex-vegans" mainly bother me when they start eating meat again... and ex-vegetarians. If they eat meat, I feel they just never got it at all. Some of them actually did care about animals a lot and went vegan or vegetarian for totally ethical reasons - I have met said people. But they just don't get how their actions are so important in ultimately leading to the freedom of animals, because they just see this massive system that seems to swallow them up. That's what I think they never got. And that makes me more sad and confused than someone who goes vegan/herbivore for environmental reasons. It's like they did it hoping to save the world or feel better about themselves, but then there was always some disconnect that told them saving animals directly is the most important thing rather than living on principles and thinking long-term.

[firstandthen]

Eh, as an ex-Catholic and hater of the Catholic church and everything it represents, I find lent stupid and lame and going 'vegetarian' is absolutely NO sacrifice, and going vegan is just what it should be for everyone, for EVER.

There. Maybe I'm just expressing my rage for Catholicism but either way, these traditions suck.

Wow, thats offensive. I'm not a Catholic (Anglican all the way) but that still really upsets me. I don't know what you've been through with the Church but tarring all Catholics/Christians with the same brush is going a bit far....



.....er, back on topic......

[Guate_Vegan]

Wow, thats offensive. I'm not a Catholic (Anglican all the way) but that still really upsets me. I don't know what you've been through with the Church but tarring all Catholics/Christians with the same brush is going a bit far....



.....er, back on topic......

Uh, that's why I didn't 'tar' all Catholics. My whole entire family is Catholic and yes, they are quite annoying, but I was a very religious Catholic as a child as well and insulting Catholics directly would be quite ignorant.

I said I dislike everything that HAS to do Catholicism and everything it represents, I HATE IT! Therefore, it isn't bashing Catholics, it's bashing the Catholic church, and I'm entitled to my own opinion.

[Shrapnel]

Uh, that's why I didn't 'tar' all Catholics. My whole entire family is Catholic and yes, they are quite annoying, but I was a very religious Catholic as a child as well and insulting Catholics directly would be quite ignorant.

I said I dislike everything that HAS to do Catholicism and everything it represents, I HATE IT! Therefore, it isn't bashing Catholics, it's bashing the Catholic church, and I'm entitled to my own opinion.

I hope you can see how that can be considered offensive to people who are Catholic. I mean, you're saying you hate everything they believe in. Bashing the church is still insulting to the followers of it, as well as anyone bothered by religious intolerance.

Anyway, yeah, you are entitled to your opinion, just that opinion, and the way it's expressed can be considered insulting. But you're fully entitled to express it.

[snivelingchild]

Uh, that's why I didn't 'tar' all Catholics. My whole entire family is Catholic and yes, they are quite annoying, but I was a very religious Catholic as a child as well and insulting Catholics directly would be quite ignorant.

I said I dislike everything that HAS to do Catholicism and everything it represents, I HATE IT! Therefore, it isn't bashing Catholics, it's bashing the Catholic church, and I'm entitled to my own opinion.

^ word. the church is an institution, and there's nothing wrong with criticizing an institution. (see Peta subforum for more info)

I find scientology stupid. *gasp...oh no she didn't!*

[Shrapnel]

Back to on topic, I was happy to find out yesterday that a friend is trying to eat vegan for Lent. She's part of my school's animal rights club, and wanted to go vegan for a while, but didn't have the drive/push needed. She had the problem of being addicted to cheese. Hopefully if she stops eating dairy for 40 days, she'll be able to fully break it.

[horselesspaul]

^ word. the church is an institution, and there's nothing wrong with criticizing an institution. (see Peta subforum for more info)

See also people's deliberate and constant inability to separate anti-Israeli government views from anti-Semitism.

[Sarabi]

Back to on topic, I was happy to find out yesterday that a friend is trying to eat vegan for Lent. She's part of my school's animal rights club, and wanted to go vegan for a while, but didn't have the drive/push needed. She had the problem of being addicted to cheese. Hopefully if she stops eating dairy for 40 days, she'll be able to fully break it.

Hey, that's awesome! That sounds like it should be enough. I was "addicted" to cheese and meat and, well.... a lot of other things. But once they were gone, they were gone! Not out of sight exactly, but out of mind!

I just got back from the Buddhist eating meditation session I guided tonight (okay, almost no one had been showing up to my Buddhist meditation sessions the past few weeks until I announced eating meditation........), and this one woman told me that ever since the first eating meditation she did with me, it has totally changed the way she relates to food. She said that for Lent she has decided to eat less and eat more consciously. She also expressed interest in giving up meat, so may she/they/we find the way to compassion.

[horselesspaul]

I just got back from the Buddhist eating meditation session I guided tonight (okay, almost no one had been showing up to my Buddhist meditation sessions the past few weeks until I announced eating meditation........),

Hahaha, that's excellent. Folks do love to eat.

[Shrapnel]

Hey, that's awesome! That sounds like it should be enough. I was "addicted" to cheese and meat and, well.... a lot of other things. But once they were gone, they were gone! Not out of sight exactly, but out of mind!

I just got back from the Buddhist eating meditation session I guided tonight (okay, almost no one had been showing up to my Buddhist meditation sessions the past few weeks until I announced eating meditation........), and this one woman told me that ever since the first eating meditation she did with me, it has totally changed the way she relates to food. She said that for Lent she has decided to eat less and eat more consciously. She also expressed interest in giving up meat, so may she/they/we find the way to compassion.

I think so too =) Once people get over the "addiction" then it's easy to avoid cravings.

Cool, I didn't know you led meditation =) I'm glad she's deciding to eat more consciously, and hope she finds the way to compassion too =)

[Hekaterine]

Hello. I'm new here. Well that's not strictly true, I've been lurking for ages...

This thread is really interesting, especially as I was eating vegan for health reasons for a while but only recently became vegan, mostly due to this site and also the ethical farming site (can't remember the url but think it was on a link from a thread here).

Anyway, sorry to interrupt (and also briefly Off Topic) - Sarabi, what is eating meditation?

[Zero]

Zero, I totally understand your perspective here as I have often thought that way in the past. Of course to be a genuine vegan I expect them to at least have a basic understanding of the ethical reasons behind it. My friend is vegetarian and was leaning vegan to begin with, consuming milk alternatives where convenient and always asking me if his meals were vegan. I will try to use his Lent period to help him understand the ethical side better so he won't go back to eating animal products.

However, veganism in practice IS the diet. I know that veganism is more than a practice. But how well do you think it would go over if I went up to a practicing, but not principled, person who referred to themself as vegan and said, "Excuse me, but you're not vegan until you admit that it's wrong to consume animal products"? Unless they're like a "vegan butcher" or something, I have a feeling that would rub them and any non-vegan witnesses the wrong way.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not criticizing your approach and I certainly don't go around being the "vegan police" confronting people about not being vegan

I am was just sharing my views and experiences on the subject of planned short-term "veganism", like i said I can see it both ways. If you only get one person to go vegan then its a success in my opinion

[Sarabi]

I'm glad we agree, Zero. Seems like I rarely agree with people anymore.

Hello. I'm new here. Well that's not strictly true, I've been lurking for ages...

This thread is really interesting, especially as I was eating vegan for health reasons for a while but only recently became vegan, mostly due to this site and also the ethical farming site (can't remember the url but think it was on a link from a thread here).

Anyway, sorry to interrupt (and also briefly Off Topic) - Sarabi, what is eating meditation?

Hey. Welcome to The Vegan Forum. Eating meditation is basically conscious eating. I use the Five Eating Contemplations almost every time I eat: http://www.deerparkmonastery.org/min...ing-meditation

• This food is a gift of the earth, the sky, numerous living beings and much hard work.
• May we eat with mindfulness and gratitude so as to be worthy to receive it.
• May we recognize and transform our unwholesome mental formations, especially our greed, and learn to eat with moderation.
• May we keep our compassion alive by eating in such a way that we reduce the suffering of living beings, preserve our planet and reverse the process of global warming.
• We accept this food so that we may nurture our brotherhood and sisterhood, strengthen our sangha and nourish our ideal of serving all beings.

[JC]

There's also a fast in place, where Catholics are supposed to eat only three meals a day, two small meals and one larger one

... how is that fasting - isn't that what everyone does??

[Shrapnel]

... how is that fasting - isn't that what everyone does??

Well, not always. I mean, some people eat throughout the day, like snack. Also, the meals aren't equal size (the two smaller ones are supposed to be together the size of the large one), so it's not three large meals (and the rules nowadays are relaxed. It used to be more strict).

[Sarabi]

Well, not always. I mean, some people eat throughout the day, like snack. Also, the meals aren't equal size (the two smaller ones are supposed to be together the size of the large one), so it's not three large meals (and the rules nowadays are relaxed. It used to be more strict).

According to the dictionary, fasting just means abstaining from food as a form of self-denial/self-discipline. I think "self-denial" or "self-discipline" means something different for different people. I mean, going without food before 6p.m. for just one day would not usually count as fasting for me, although it would be another story if I did it for several days.