Vegan for Lent

[Shrapnel]

According to the dictionary, fasting just means abstaining from food as a form of self-denial/self-discipline. I think "self-denial" or "self-discipline" means something different for different people. I mean, going without food before 6p.m. for just one day would not usually count as fasting for me, although it would be another story if I did it for several days.

Yeah, the popular conception is abstaining for food entirely for a period of time, but it can more broadly mean certain food restrictions, usually for religious reasons (for instance, how Muslims fast during the month of Ramadan, not eating after the first call to prayer, and only resuming eating after the fourth call to prayer).

[Frank]

Eh, as an ex-Catholic and hater of the Catholic church and everything it represents, I find lent stupid and lame and going 'vegetarian' is absolutely NO sacrifice, and going vegan is just what it should be for everyone, for EVER.

There. Maybe I'm just expressing my rage for Catholicism but either way, these traditions suck.

I will not be doing anything for lent.

I do not need any extra motivation to achieve something or feel the need to perhaps suffer something to abate my wrong doings in life – or that I can in some unknown way match Christ in his 40 days in the desert.
I think Catholicism is okay and I know plenty of good, kind hearted people who have given everything to their communities. Others do the same for other faiths.

I was christened a Catholic but only went to church when family visited from Ireland.

I did my own thing in life thereafter.

I went back to church under my own guise, as expected, and took my communion and was pleased to help others. I needed to understand things there before moving on again.

I don’t think lent is stupid at all – it’s something people will do as part of their commitment to that faith.

Yes – I agree that going vegetarian (or vegan) is really not a sacrifice. But taking time to explain this to people sometimes can be.

[leedsveg]

See also people's deliberate and constant inability to separate anti-Israeli government views from anti-Semitism.

I once ate a bacon sandwich in the Christian Quarter of the Old City, Jerusalem. I have now been a vegan for over 13 years. Relevance to this thread? Absolutely none.

[pat sommer]

ah, you were just answering a question I was about to pose: how can you offend Jews Muslims and Vegans all in one go?

'nother question: "I ask for mercy, not sacrifice." where did I here that?

[Guate_Vegan]

ah, you were just answering a question I was about to pose: how can you offend Jews Muslims and Vegans all in one go?

'nother question: "I ask for mercy, not sacrifice." where did I here that?

That, dude, is really funny LOL

[leedsveg]

ah, you were just answering a question I was about to pose: how can you offend Jews Muslims and Vegans all in one go?

'nother question: "I ask for mercy, not sacrifice." where did I here that?

Hi ps

As I remember (and it was 39 years ago), the bacon had a lot of fat, was extortionately expensive and was almost certainly sold to me by a Christian.
So if any Christians also want to feel offended....

Don't know much about Lent but I was brought up in the Salvation Army which had (and probably still has) 'Self-denial Week' which seems to serve a similar purpose. I understand that the SA founder, William Booth and his wife were vegetarians, but unlike the NO DRINKING and NO SMOKING prohibitions, a NO EATING MEAT message does not seem to have been passed on to their followers. If it had, then I would probably have been a vegetarian at birth in 1946, rather than when 'the scales fell from my eyes' in 1990.

[P.V.]

This is neat!

[Sarabi]

So my friend told me that he's been finding veganism hard, and that he feels like he has less energy or strength while working out. I am hoping he'll be good after the vegan bodybuilder comes to speak on campus two weeks from now, but that's two weeks of opportunity I have to talk to my friend myself. Any ideas??? I asked him if he tried some energy bars, but I dunno if that'll be enough. I don't work out very much, so I can't say anything from experience. I know another girl who was vegan but now eats egg whites because she's an athlete and said she couldn't find a way to get enough protein otherwise. So I don't know what to say to this.

[horselesspaul]

So my friend told me that he's been finding veganism hard, and that he feels like he has less energy or strength while working out. I am hoping he'll be good after the vegan bodybuilder comes to speak on campus two weeks from now, but that's two weeks of opportunity I have to talk to my friend myself. Any ideas??? I asked him if he tried some energy bars, but I dunno if that'll be enough. I don't work out very much, so I can't say anything from experience. I know another girl who was vegan but now eats egg whites because she's an athlete and said she couldn't find a way to get enough protein otherwise. So I don't know what to say to this.

What exactly are these people eating?

[Sarabi]

I have no idea. I don't eat with them.

[horselesspaul]

OK, but if you're friends with either or both then it might be worth finding out since it is not hard to maintain a healthy vegan diet with enough protein for an athlete and to prevent even the most strenuous exercise from making one feel less energetic than if one were not a vegan.
http://veganfitness.net/ is a good resource.

[cookey]

OK, but if you're friends with either or both then it might be worth finding out since it is not hard to maintain a healthy vegan diet with enough protein for an athlete and to prevent even the most strenuous exercise from making one feel less energetic than if one were not a vegan.
http://veganfitness.net/ is a good resource.

Quite. Sarabi - if your friend has simply given up meat, dairy and eggs and is now eating only vegatables and fruit, then they might find they are feeling weaker. They are probably taking in significantly less calories than before - apart from the extra nutrients that they need from nuts and pulses.
I - and many other vegans - exercise and gain muscle well on a vegan diet.

[sandra]

Maybe a lot of his problem is psychological too! He believes a vegan diet will make him feel weak........ so he does feel weak.
I found I had lots MORE energy when I became vegan!

[Sarabi]

That's a good idea. I will recommend veganfitness.net. Maybe I will suggest eating more? Is that a good idea?

sandra, you may be right. I don't know. Once I met this guy who told me he "used to be vegetarian" for a while, but that he somehow noticed he wasn't getting enough protein and went back to eating meat. When I questioned him, he sounded bogus to me, like he didn't really put any effort into maintaining the diet.

[Verencemos]

How do you notice you aren't getting enough protein? I often wonder. People ask me if I get enough, and the only way I can answer is to say 'Well, I feel pretty fit'

But anyway, I think trying something for a while is a good thing. I stopped smoking when I found out I was pregnant, promising myself I would smoke as soon as the baby was born, but when it came to it, I didn't want another cigarette.
And when I started to eat a vegan diet, I did it on a one day at a time basis. I had about 12-18 months fiddling around, while I became increasingly revolted at the thought of the reality of what is behind the cheese, milk, eggs until I had a day where I thought I just can't do this anymore (eat a vegetarian diet), I have to be vegan, its the only way, and then more and more followed.
So if a friend eats a vegan diet for lent, I would encourage it, who knows where it will lead. Hopefully one more vegan!

[Sarabi]

My friend told me he plans to give up veganism after Lent, but that he will definitely consume less non-vegan products after going back. Not a success, not a complete failure. I call it MEH. He obviously wasn't doing it because he really believed in it, and now he just says it's hard. So that makes veganism sound harder to people who've never tried it, or could discourage others who would try it. It really bothers me when people tell me veganism is hard. I have very little self-discipline, yet I find it to be quite easy and simple.

[horselesspaul]

My friend told me he plans to give up veganism after Lent, but that he will definitely consume less non-vegan products after going back. Not a success, not a complete failure. I call it MEH. He obviously wasn't doing it because he really believed in it, and now he just says it's hard. So that makes veganism sound harder to people who've never tried it, or could discourage others who would try it. It really bothers me when people tell me veganism is hard. I have very little self-discipline, yet I find it to be quite easy and simple.

Hahaha, meh indeed. As discussed before, perhaps the tying in with Lent which is often seen as a spartan hiatus in one's usual behaviour has given him this mindset.
I agree entirely that veganism is simple and quite easy if one has the desire to see it as such.
Well done to you for trying to get that across to non-vegans though.

[Shrapnel]

My friend told me he plans to give up veganism after Lent, but that he will definitely consume less non-vegan products after going back. Not a success, not a complete failure. I call it MEH. He obviously wasn't doing it because he really believed in it, and now he just says it's hard. So that makes veganism sound harder to people who've never tried it, or could discourage others who would try it. It really bothers me when people tell me veganism is hard. I have very little self-discipline, yet I find it to be quite easy and simple.

I agree with you there... a big meh. Well, not a total loss, in that he'll be considering it, but it's a disappointment he's not sticking with it. Though, maybe he'll be thinking about it at least from now on.

[Sarabi]

I don't think Lent makes him think less of veganism. I think that he didn't think much of veganism to begin with. He always told me he wasn't convinced that it was healthy.

[Shrapnel]

I don't think Lent makes him think less of veganism. I think that he didn't think much of veganism to begin with. He always told me he wasn't convinced that it was healthy.

Well, at least he will be able to see it is healthy after all (though I guess there may be more than that. The fact that you're healthy after veganism hasn't been something he seems to think of).

[leedsveg]

Hi Sarabi
Your Catholic friend did not go vegan for Lent, he just extended his vegetarian diet to a total vegetarian diet. In other words, it wasn't a change in fundamental belief, just a change in his diet.

Imagine that I'd agreed with your friend to give up my atheism for Lent and 'go Catholic'. I could have gone to mass , said prayers, tried to swear a bit less, gone to confession, tried to be nicer to people, given more money to charity, things that we expect Catholics to do. At the end of Lent, your friend might have asked if I was going to carry on 'being a Catholic' and I would have had to tell him that at no point had I been Catholic since at no point had I believed in god. It didn't matter how many 'Catholic things' I did, without a belief in god, I wasn't a Catholic.

Donald Watson broke away from the Vegetarian Society UK and helped found the Vegan Society because for him, life was more than what he ate, or what he wore. It was about having an ethic of compassion towards all living creatures. Without that ethic, it's not veganism, it's vegetarianism, a 'diet thing'.

[Zero]

Hi Sarabi
Your Catholic friend did not go vegan for Lent, he just extended his vegetarian diet to a total vegetarian diet. In other words, it wasn't a change in fundamental belief, just a change in his diet.

Indeed, we did discuss that on the first page of the thread, I think Sarabi was just trying to keep it punchy and give people an introduction to veganism just in terms of the diet, that is the part that people freak out about when first approaching veganism, however once you get there you soon realize that actually that is the easiest part

As Shrapnel rightly points out at least it has broken down one of his misconceptions about vegans and perhaps in the near future he may see the broader view of veganism and the ethical reasoning behind it.

[harpy]

As Shrapnel rightly points out at least it has broken down one of his misconceptions about vegans and perhaps in the near future he may see the broader view of veganism and the ethical reasoning behind it.

I agree - anything that makes you think about what you consume and whether it's necessary is probably a step in the right direction; most people probably don't think much about it at all.

And you never know, the chap may find that animal products have lost some of their appeal after a break from them.

[Sarabi]

I agree with last three comments. I don't know what misconceptions it has "broken down." He said that he was feeling weaker. Well, the vegan bodybuilder is coming on the 29th. *crosses fingers* It's quite fortunate that I put this week during Lent, not that I even thought of that at the time of planning.

[leedsveg]

Hi Harpy And Zero. I agree fully with your point, also I should have read page 1 of the thread before posting. I do hope however that my comparison of veganism and Catholicism may be of interest to readers of the thread.

[Sarabi]

Hi Harpy And Zero. I agree fully with your point, also I should have read page 1 of the thread before posting. I do hope however that my comparison of veganism and Catholicism may be of interest to readers of the thread.

Yes, I do like your comparison! But I don't know how that would go over with my friend if I told him that...

[Shrapnel]

Hi Harpy And Zero. I agree fully with your point, also I should have read page 1 of the thread before posting. I do hope however that my comparison of veganism and Catholicism may be of interest to readers of the thread.

I think it was a good comparison and example of 'going through the motions' versus actually taking on a belief =)

[harpy]

I don't know what misconceptions it has "broken down." He said that he was feeling weaker.

Yes, but you said that he'd told you he would definitely consume less non-vegan products, so presumably he realises that he doesn't really need to eat as much as he was doing, and thinks he shouldn't Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Sarabi]

Yes, but you said that he'd told you he would definitely consume less non-vegan products, so presumably he realises that he doesn't really need to eat as much as he was doing, and thinks he shouldn't Rome wasn't built in a day.

Hmm, I guess that makes sense. But on the other hand he thinks that he needs to eat more than he is now. So if something was broken down, something else was reified?

I am just feeling a bit pessimistic lately since someone first expressed to me an interest in veganism and then came back to me two days later and said he wasn't buying it and was unreceptive to it. But maybe my friend will come around nonetheless.

[harpy]

It sounds as though you're putting a lot of vegan information about, so if even a few people who see it are influenced by it to think about becoming vegan, or even just start reducing their consumption of animal produce, you're making a difference. So please try not to get downhearted about individual cases, even though it's hard not to, and keep up the good work

[Sarabi]

It sounds as though you're putting a lot of vegan information about, so if even a few people who see it are influenced by it to think about becoming vegan, or even just start reducing their consumption of animal produce, you're making a difference. So please try not to get downhearted about individual cases, even though it's hard not to, and keep up the good work

Yeah. Thanks for the encouragement. I know day-to-day life is about individual cases. I spend so much time thinking about the universal aspects of veganism, and it's easy to feel that one or a small number of cases is the whole world because I want that something larger, but I'm dealing with something smaller. Maybe it doesn't always matter. Maybe persistence is key.

But I have been thinking about just getting together a group of people already interested in vegan activism so I won't be alone when doing it anymore. And it would establish community before having those conversations about whether or not to make that individual choice. I feel you need individuals AND community support... hope I get that Compassion Over Killing internship because I really need that community right now!