Operation Pancake: Undercover Investigation of LA Vegan Restaurants

**Frank** · Jul 2nd, 2009, 12:49 AM

Operation Pancake: Undercover Investigation of LA Vegan Restaurants

Thought you guys might like to read and discuss this:

http://www.quarrygirl.com/2009/06/28...n-restaurants/

If I visited a vegan food serving outlet and knew there was a doubt about items brought in – I would voice my concern. Maybe this type of feedback would help the owners to be more careful about outside suppliers or to brief them on what is needed to meet vegan based food requirements.

Nothing I guess is better than freshly made on-site food from original ingredients.

**Mr Flibble** · Jul 2nd, 2009, 04:49 PM

Do any Londoners find it strange that the vegan chinese restaurant chain give out non vegetarian sweets at the end of the meal? Doesn't inspire confidence.

Mahk · Jul 3rd, 2009, 02:11 AM

^ What is it exactly they give out, Mr F.?
---

[The following is not addressed to anyone in particular]

I find it hard to believe all these restaurants that tested positive for animal products are deliberately sneaking known animal compounds into their food. Cross contamination seems much more likely to me and can occur at any number of locations even before the goods make it to the restaurant, for example. Maybe the cheeze company for instance also makes a casein based dairy-free cheese and the cutting machine which turns it into slices can't be cleaned between batches to the parts per million molecular detection level. Who knows?

Me personally, I worry about animals, not molecules. The vast majority of "cross contamination" fears and "corrective measures" I read about in no way contribute to or diminish animal harm by insisting the company uses a separate production line for the vegan goods only. In fact, at the end of the day, by insisting they double their use of rubber gloves (latex often being processed with animal compounds) and cleaning soaps (think they only buy "vegan soap"?) for the cookware because we've insisted they have two sets, not one, we are contributing to animal death.

[Think the table clothes at the vegan restuarants we eat at are washed in "vegan soap" for that matter? hmmm.....]

edit to add: I'm also suspicious of the accuracy of these hand held "detection devices" which look analogous to early pregnancy test kits. Who makes them? What's their accuracy? Can they show false positives from similar proteins?

**Tigerlily** · Jul 3rd, 2009, 04:13 AM

Shellfish contamination is very possible if the dish has seaweed in it. A lot of Japanese and Asian style foods use various seaweeds (for flavour). Due to nature of harvesting seaweed, small crustaceans ("insects of the sea") may get caught in the netting and processed along with it. But it's the same for plants and grains that often have insects in it when being collected. It's not uncommon.

The egg and milk proteins are unsettling. I often wonder how many veg*n restaurants are really owned by actual veg*ns!

Cross contamination at veg*n restaurants shouldn't be tolerated. My father is the kitchen manager at a very omni seafood restaurant. When he knows I'm popping in on my way to work (as I often do), I get vegan food made for me. My dad is actually quite cute about it. ("Don't worry Na, I made this myself, it's only vegetable oil and spices. It's vegawn, I made it all myself and used the vegetable cutting board.") I have seen it and I know it's safe. My dad is all about making sure the knife wasn't used on anything else before it cut my food up.

Mahk · Jul 3rd, 2009, 04:26 AM

Tigerlily

I often wonder how many veg*n restaurants are really owned by actual veg*ns!

A good question. Another potential for contamination is the food the workers bring in themselves for their own consumption for their lunch break. Are they all veg*ns? I certainly know of a vegan restaurant where the entire wait staff is not vegan for sure (I asked the two people behind the counter and one said, "I used to be") . In the US, for any business larger than 15 people, it is illegal to discriminate employment to any qualified applicant based on race, skin color, religion, or I would assume "diet and lifestyle", so the waitstaff and kitchen crew etc is most likely partly non-vegan at many vegan restaurants.

My dad is all about making sure the knife wasn't used on anything else before it cut my food up.

I've heard automatic dish-washing machines, which I would assume some restaurants may use, are known to not properly remove and clean all utensils/plates 100% and there is a certain degree of "caked on" residual food though. [I've never owned such a machine but I've seen them mention this concept in dish-washing machine detergent TV commercials.] Hence cross contamination at the molecular level may occur unless there is a dedicated knife section that only cuts vegetables and a different set of knives for cutting omni foods. That doesn't seem likely to me and a "visual inspection" of each knife before each use by every employee may fail to show residual omni molecules. They are invisible after all.

**Tigerlily** · Jul 3rd, 2009, 04:25 PM

Molecular levels are pointless. And it's not about the molecular level (for me anyway). It's a huge kitchen and there is a specific "vegetable cutting section" where those knives are kept there. There are other knives for cutting the meats and seafood. Now of course I'm sure the vegetable knives were used to cut animal foods at various times, probably quite frequently. As long as they were washed before cutting my food, I'm fine with it.

Some restaurants wash by hand, some use dishwashers. The dishwashers are different than the ones you find in homes. It's washed with steaming hot water and a bleach based solution.

But of course, I'm sure you're just being difficult. Cross-contanimation is an issue for MANY vegans. Just because you are happy eating "vegan food" that may not be really vegan, that's fine. But trying to defend that practice to a very large percentage of people who do not think it's acceptable, is just being annoyingly defensive. It's like going on a drug-free forum and trying to argue that inhaling marijuana smoke in a room full of stoners is okay and if you accidentally get high from it, it doesn't matter, it's already been done.

When serving vegetarians, vegans, and other people with food preferences, it's VERY important to make sure you are doing it correct. It's the restaurant's responsibility to make sure. Some vegans are fine with cross contamination. Some vegans are fine with eating foods that may or may not be vegan, but they were told it was vegan. Some vegans won't eat at all restaurants where meat is being prepared. Some vegans don't even want their vegan food held in the same fridge as meaty foods. In my opinion, it's the restaurant owner's responsibility to make sure that their products are vegan for everyone. No cross contamination, no meat lunches from workers being eaten during food prep, no honey, no "little bit of casein", etc etc. A Jewish person who was promised his food was kosher would not tolerate it if he found out it wasn't kosher! Why should vegans have to tolerate it? Which is what you are implying, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to get the "stop complaining and being difficult " vibe from your posts.

Mahk · Jul 4th, 2009, 01:16 AM

Tigerlily

But of course, I'm sure you're just being difficult. Cross-contamination is an issue for MANY vegans.

I'm just trying to be factual. In my opinion any food which is prepared, processed, or packaged in an omni environment, be it a restaurant or a pre-packaged food like "cheeze", should be assumed to be potentially cross contaminated, at least at the molecular level (which is all this Operation Pancake thing has "proved"). Should a vegan restaurant not be allowed to call their food vegan if they buy their vegan cheeze from a company that also makes casein based, dairy free cheese at the same facility? That seems to be a preposterous demand to make, IMO, and the Vegan Society concurs with me. They specifically have gone on record to say that they register and label food as being vegan with their trademark symbol even if it is made in a facility that also makes non-vegan food and hence may have molecular contamination.

Just because you are happy eating "vegan food" that may not be really vegan, that's fine.

You mean by your personal definition of "vegan". The organization which coined the term disagrees with you. I am eating vegan food, even if it is made in a facility that also produces non-vegan food, thank you very much.

Which is what you are implying, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to get the "stop complaining and being difficult " vibe from your post

Actually my point is that people who call themselves "vegan" and insist that additional extra animals be killed on their behalf to make the 5 million molecules of additional, extra soap to wash the secondary, redundant, production line equipment are contributing to animal death demand. The vegan and omni "cheeze" company has to buy more soap at twice the rate they used to in order to clean the secondary, redundant apparatus.

A Jewish person who was promised his food was kosher would not tolerate it if he found out it wasn't kosher!

Sorry, your analogy is somewhat flawed, IMO. Kosher Jews and allergy sufferers are indeed worried about molecular contamination but for unrelated issues to wanting to be animal friendly. They in theory could hunt a wild boar for sport, for example, they just aren't allowed to eat it. Our motivation is to kill as few animals as possible; they don't care about the animals at all, they care about having as few pig molecules entering their bodies as possible but would gladly kill many, many pigs to ensure that. We wouldn't.

**RubyDuby** · Jul 8th, 2009, 09:47 PM

I actually don't find it as hard to believe.

Green Leaves was the only restaurant that outright failed. I was eating there once and was served the wrong sandwich. When I told the waitress she offered a complimentary scoop of ice cream, with the warning that the green tea flavor had milk in it. They are supposed to be a vegan restaurant... It is not listed as having milk in the menu (at least it wasn't at that time) and she told me as an after thought.

Also, did you see the pic of the cheese in the quesadilla? That's not from cross contamination.