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Thread: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

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    Thumbs up Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    The American Dietetic Association has released its updated position with regard to vegetarian and vegan diets:

    Abstract
    It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence-based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals. The variability of dietary practices among vegetarians makes individual assessment of dietary adequacy essential. In addition to assessing dietary adequacy, food and nutrition professionals can also play key roles in educating vegetarians about sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and dietary modifications to meet their needs.

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Thanks. It seems they still miss out on informing about an important issue: the many, well documented factors the reduce B12 levels/availability in 'modern times' (nutrient levels in soil, chlorinated water and much more), which vegans and non-vegans need to pay extra attention to.

    IMO they should make another update, and state that even if vegan diets from nature's site would have provided all the B12 we need, supplementation may be needed (as opposed to only being 'useful' in some cases). They seem to be intelligent enough not inform about B12 the way eg. The Vegan Society or Vegan Outreach do, so I'm sure they could write a little something about this in a way that wouldn't put people off from wanting to go vegan.

    With all the info available out there about nutrient levels among people living on standard diets, well informed people already know that vegans don't need to worry about more nutrients than non-vegans - and while the info from the American Dietetic Association helps killing a lot of old myths, a tiny adjustment would make that text even better....

    I don't like the "appropriately planned" part either, but that's another story. It's not a question about keep planning your diet, but about changing your habits!
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Quote Korn View Post
    I don't like the "appropriately planned" part either
    Not entirely sure what you mean, Korn; I think it's quite an important phrase to add, otherwise people might think they can live on junk food and still be healthy, or just eat anything that happens by while missing out on important nutrients, then wonder why they get sick... After all, how many times have we heard people say "I went vegan but gave it up because I got sick"?

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Yes, and I think the ADA also have to cater (as it were) for those stories where people live exclusively on pineapples or something and then the tabloids report it as "vegan gets malnutrition" :-/ It is slightly annoying though inasmuch as it could be taken as implying that vegetarian diets need much more careful planning than other do, and as we know there are plenty of dodgy omnivorous diets.

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Quote fiamma View Post
    Not entirely sure what you mean, Korn; I think it's quite an important phrase to add, otherwise people might think they can live on junk food and still be healthy, or just eat anything that happens by while missing out on important nutrients, then wonder why they get sick...
    'Planning', translated into Norwegian, normally means some actions you do in order for preparing for something else, like in 'what are you planning to eat tomorrow'. Of course vegans need to make sure that they get the nutrients they need, just like non-vegans, but the way I see it, this isn't about making more meal plans than others - and it doesn't in any way represent more work or hassle than what are people are used to from their non-vegan days; except the transitional period where people of course have to change their habits. But whatever important changes people make in their lives; change diet, get a new job, move to another city etc., there will be a transitional period.

    If you are used to getting you protein from meat, and you become a vegan, you may have to 'plan' to get your protein from other sources in the beginning - but since you've learned about vegan protein sources and gotten used to not buy meat, there's no more planning involved - not more than it was before.

    So - not 'planning' anything doesn't mean that I'll live on pasta and ketchup for the rest of their lives if they go vegan, but of course they have to go through an interesting period which includes some learning and experimenting and 'unlearning' of old habits.




    After all, how many times have we heard people say "I went vegan but gave it up because I got sick"?
    In my case, never - but of course I've seen forumers write about just skipping animal products from their old diet and later discover that that's not the way to switch to a vegan diet. Of course people can't just do that, which is a reason this forum exists: to help people find inspiration to try out all the tasty and healthy vegan food they've never tried before.

    Compared with all the non-vegans that have health problems, and knowing that the Western world still is dominated by a diet where animal products are very common - and last, but not least, knowing how little (if any) information that's given in schools and media about healthy, plant based food, I'm kind of surprised that the percentage of people who just try to go vegan without gathering any knowledge about food and nutrition don't get more problems than they do.

    Look at this poll:
    How has the change to a vegan diet affected you?

    Less than 5% report that their health and/or sense of well-being is a little reduced or strongly reduced, circa 10% are neutral (no change), but over 62 % state that their health and/or sense of well-being has improved a lot. 23% answered that their health and/or sense of well-being has improved a little.

    People don't get sick of becoming vegan, but (in terms of diet related illness), they get sick of eating wrong, by missing important nutrients or by eating the right stuff in the wrong amounts. This is of course true for both vegans and non-vegans.

    If a person who is used to live on a vegan diet should stop being a vegan, he would also need a transitional period - which of course would include some 'planning'. Where will he get his fiber from? Antioxidants? Vitamin C? Folate? phytosterols/flavonoids? Once he would have changed his habits, we wouldn't need to plan his meals any more than normal non-vegans do, although whatever he does, he may easily end up with being part of the statistics which show that an average (non-vegan) person is sick about 10 years of his life. But that's a different story.

    So - no, I don't agree about the 'planning' part, although it's important that vegans learn whatever they have to learn in order to live on a healthy and tasty diet. Again, - I see that as a transitional period, not something that will keep requiring require a higher degree of 'well planned' meals than what's true for a non-vegan.

    On the contrary, I think a non-vegan need more time to think about and make sure how he can a) get enough of the nutrients he needs, and b) not get too much of the
    'bad stuff' in animal products. This isn't only due to the studies about nutrient deficiencies about non-vegans I referred to above, but because consuming animal products even in relatively small amounts will mean that people will eat less plant based food, and lots of the stuff we need in order to have a good immune system and remain healthy is more or less only available in plants.

    Remember that meat and dairy products technically are plants that have been eaten once already (meat eaters normally only eat herbivorous animals). Anything that can be interpreted as 'people who go vegan will have an increased risk of being sick' is based on prejudice and not science, and if a vegan becomes sick, it's not because he is a vegan. It could be due to his diet, of course, if he lives on junk food, but one doesn't have to keep 'planning' not to live on junk food.

    IMO it's a big mistake, when informing about vegan nutrition, not to include information about the common nutritional deficiencies among non-vegans. It's also unethical not to make sure that B12 is a special case, for the reasons explained in an earlier post, and not only something that 'may be useful', just like it's wrong to claim that B12 is only found in animal products.

    There are lots more non-vegans than vegans, myths about plant based diets are kept alive by people who haven't dived into all the studies and nutritional info that's available, and there's simply too little emphasis on nuances the way both non-vegans and vegans inform about nutrition, and that's where I think that American Dietetic Association still can improve.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  6. #6
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Quote fiamma View Post
    I think it's quite an important phrase to add, otherwise people might think they can live on junk food and still be healthy, or just eat anything that happens by while missing out on important nutrients, then wonder why they get sick
    Fiamma, I whole heartedly agree. This phrase also protects us from the "baby Shakur killing", nutritionally inept vegan parents who feed their babies only soy milk (not formula) and apple juice and then we get the press reports about "Vegans kill baby".

    Some other vegans, that I like to call "Coca Cola vegans", switch from their ever day SAD dinner of a cheeseburger, Coke, and French fries to a dinner of French fries, coke, and soy ice cream, instead. All they think about is that they have to eliminate beef etc, but they've never heard of soy, tempeh, tofu, seitan, beans and rice, etc. They eliminate their singular high protein food and replace it with other high fat/carbohydrate/sugary foods they already know.

    Also thanks for posting this new update.

    Of course vegans need to make sure that they get the nutrients they need
    This is all that "plans" means to me, Korn. It just means "a tiny bit of thought is needed", nothing elaborate or complex.

  7. #7
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Hi,

    With all the interest in - and threads about - nutrition on this board, I'm sure most people here are aware that vegans, like everybody else, need to make sure they get the nutrients they need. And for me, such a statement is different than indicating that vegans need more planning* than people eating standard food. Is this where our viewpoints differ?

    If there isn't nore planning involved, I simply don't think we should use the word planning, because this only strengthens a myth that some people believe in, namly that it's difficult to survive well on a vegan diet without a lot of extra work. I'm all for keeping info about veganism simple and straight forward, which in this case is simple: if what we mean is that vegans (again - like everyone else) need to make sure they get the nutrients they need, let's just say that.




    *
    Dictionary: plan (plăn)

    A scheme, program, or method worked out beforehand for the accomplishment of an objective.

    For people who already are vegans, maybe the difference between these two ways of saying the same thing doesn't seem significant. For others, who may assume that living on a plant based diet needs a lot of work, a statement posted from people who already are vegans confirming which more or less confirms the myth that eating vegan = extra work may keep some people away from trying to go vegan.

    But then again, I read an excellent book many moons ago called something a la "The Power of Language" (by Rolv Mikkel Blakar, professor in social psychology, specializing in the psychology of language), which focused on how we communicate and constantly influence each others not by what we say, but how we are saying it. After I read that book, I saw a lot of linguistic "half empty bottle/half full bottle" situations everywhere, and it seems that sometimes, there's more "power" in the messages we send between the lines, because by saying things without really saying them, people are less aware (if aware at all) that they actually are being influenced.

    OTOH, if any of you actually are eating according to "a scheme, program, or method worked out beforehand for the accomplishment of an objective", this post is highly irrelevant!

    Quote Mahk View Post
    All they think about is that they have to eliminate beef etc, but they've never heard of soy, tempeh, tofu, seitan, beans and rice, etc.
    Well... I'm sure they've heard about rice and beans, and the other stuff you mention - soy, tempeh, tofu, and seitan is something they may or may not have heard of, but also something they don't need.

    What people on any diet need is to get the nutrients they need: this is not something that special for vegans. I haven't seen anything that suggests that vegans lack more nutrients than others, the difference is that whenever someone changes his/her eating habits, they need to find new sources for some nutrients - the nutrients they primarily got from some of the food they don't eat anymore.

    This isn't something special for people who go vegan, and if you look at studies about nutrient levels in people living on standard food, you'll know what I mean: in lack of having lived on that diet for years, even grown up on it, they are missing out on a lot of nutrients. In other words: even if they have not changed their diet, they seem to need 'planning (to use that word) in order to upgrade their eating habits to a level where they get the nutrients they assume they get - but don't.
    Last edited by Korn; Sep 8th, 2009 at 07:20 AM. Reason: Adding info about book
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  8. #8
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Quote Korn View Post
    whenever someone changes his/her eating habits, they need to find new sources for some nutrients - the nutrients they primarily got from some of the food they don't eat anymore.
    = planning; "a method worked out beforehand"
    ---

    Korn, you plan all the time. You have knowledge in which vegan foods contain for instance protein, calcium, vitamins B12, and D2, but only because you researched that info; you weren't taught it in basic school. Ask 99% of Americans to name a vegan food source with substantial amounts of those four nutrients and they will draw a blank. For most Americans if they are told to stop eating animal products and they aren't allowed to research anything about nutrition (that's called planning) they'll end up on a diet identical to the one they had before, except the animal compounds are removed. Instead of a cheeseburger and a milkshake for lunch they will eat french fries, deep fried onion rings, and Coke. That's hardly nutritious and void of calcium, protein, vitamin B12 or D, for example. That's what these guidelines are warning against, IMHO, by suggesting "planning", that's all.

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Here's how I see it: If you need to change your habits, some "planning" is need, or at least, a little research. It's like moving to a new place: you used to buy your falafel at a certain place, but that place doesn't exist on your new location. So you find another place to get falafel. Once you have found that place, you don't need to 'plan' where to get falafel any more than you did where you lived before.

    My whole point is that planning/research/learning or whatever you want to call it is needed in a transitional phase: it's not something you have to keep doing. Since some people seem to assume that if they go vegan, they have to keeping ****ing even after having been through the transitional period, I think it's important to let them know that this isn't the case. Since non-vegans in large amounts are missing out on essential nutrients, they also need planning/learning/research, so it's important to let them know that even of they would never go vegan, they would still benefit from finding out if they get the nutrients they need, and if not - where to get them from.

    Please have another look at the Nutrient deficiencies more common in meat eaters than in vegans? thread and see if you agree that most people need some 'planning' (I'd rather call it learning). I simply suggest that it's...

    a) wrong to give the impression than vegans need more planning than others, and...
    b) wrong to give the impression that 'planning' (learning) is something vegans need to keep doing.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Quote fiamma View Post
    The American Dietetic Association has released its updated position with regard to vegetarian and vegan diets:

    Abstract
    It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence-based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals. The variability of dietary practices among vegetarians makes individual assessment of dietary adequacy essential. In addition to assessing dietary adequacy, food and nutrition professionals can also play key roles in educating vegetarians about sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and dietary modifications to meet their needs.
    Semantics aside, I think it's very good news

  11. #11
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Quote Korn View Post
    Here's how I see it: If you need to change your habits, some "planning" is need, or at least, a little research.
    Yes, that's all they mean. They aren't saying you need to plan each days' meals in advance for the rest of your life, but rather do a one time research and you should be all set. They are not suggesting that people on a vegan diet should engage in daily meal planning, at all.

    Yes, to answer your question, most people of all diets would do better with more research, aka planning.

    a) wrong to give the impression than vegans need more planning than others
    I disagree. Before ever becoming any kind of vegetarian, were you made aware from basic schooling which vegan foods were rich in calcium, Vitamin D, and vitamin B12? Here in America a basic nutrition course as a school child would never contain even a single suggestion of a vegan food high in any of those nutrients. The only way one could learn that is through private research, aka planning.


    b) wrong to give the impression that 'planning' (learning) is something vegans need to keep doing.
    [emphasis mine] They never said that. They said:

    "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes."

    "Planned" is in the past tense, it is history, so this implies one should do it and then move on. There's no need to continually research. Perhaps you would prefer this wording [it is saying the exact same thing, though]:

    It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately designed vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well designed vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.

    "planned" mean "thoughtfully designed"

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Non-vegans need as much 'planning' to get the nutrients they need, if not more, so any statement that creates or confirms a myth about vegans need more 'planning' than others is IMO misleading. A vegan diet doesn't need to be more 'well planned' or 'thoughtfully designed' than a standard diet. It's obvious that someone who is changing his diet needs some re-learning.

    We could go on like this, Mahk, but I'd rather not.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  13. #13
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Quote Mahk View Post
    Before ever becoming any kind of vegetarian, were you made aware from basic schooling which vegan foods were rich in calcium, Vitamin D, and vitamin B12?
    The difference Korn is that in your more advanced schools I'm sure you were taught which vegan foods are rich sources of calcium, B12, and D. You'll have to take my word for it that schools here in America don't teach this to school children. American schools teach children that dairy and meat are the only sources for these nutrients. Therefor to learn otherwise takes an applied bit of research, aka planning.

    so any statement that creates or confirms a myth about vegans need more 'planning' than others is IMO misleading.
    By definition anything that is a "myth" is misleading. Since you don't seem to want to believe or trust The American Dietetic Association that the diet of a veg*n ought to be thoughtfully designed compared to most, out of curiosity have you decided this notion is a "myth" based on your own research? or can you cite some other, non-agenda driven, general nutrition advocacy/medical group that calls this a myth?

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update from American Dietetic Association on vegetarian diets

    Most likely, most adults don't remember all the details about which food that contain which nutrients - or; if they do, they somehow ignore it. Otherwise, I doubt that so many people are lacking in so many nutrients.

    Quote Mahk View Post
    in your more advanced schools I'm sure you were taught which vegan foods are rich sources of calcium, B12, and D.
    I'm not saying that vegans don't need to learn about nutrients: I'm saying that both vegans and non-vegans need to do that. But I'm repeating myself now.

    Since you don't seem to want to believe or trust The American Dietetic Association that the diet of a veg*n ought to be thoughtfully designed compared to most
    I'll repeat myself more: due to a number of reasons, both vegans and non-vegans need knowledge about nutrition in order to get the nutrients they need.

    I'm not saying that vegans represent an exception, but if my doctor would ask me if I live on a thoughtfully designed diet (she has more or less done that, after having seen my blood tests), I'd say absolutely not. I just have some basic knowledge about nutrition, gathered a long time ago, and like many others, I feel that if there's something I need more of, I'm often attracted to food that contains that 'something'. I've seen different requests for meal plans on this forum, but I've never followed one, and don't think one needs to 'thoughtfully design' a food plan at all.

    The situation may be different for others. Some people smoke, drink, use a lot of coffee etc., I happen to not do that. People who consume a high amount of "nutrient-killers" may have to thoughtfully compensate for the reduced amount of nutrients they experience as a result of their lifestyle - but that's true for non-vegans as well.


    out of curiosity have you decided this notion is a "myth" based on your own research?
    I haven't seen any scientific facts supporting that it ("it" being a claim that vegans need more planning in order to get all the nutrients they need than others) is true. If you have seen such studies, please start a new thread with links to these comparative studies.

    Unless someone can prove that something is a fact, I don't consider it a fact.


    A few posts ago you posted that we more or less agree, and that the confusion was more or less based on semantics:
    Korn: If you need to change your habits, some "planning" is need, or at least, a little research.
    Mahk: Yes, that's all they mean.
    ...and now you are suggesting that I "don't want to" believe or trust American Dietetic Association. Hmf.

    I see planning as different from learning, and maybe you don't - but nenver mind. I think the wording in the text above could have been better, like I've explained several times. It would IMO be better if they wrote something that made it clear that learning about nutrients (and living according to what one has learned) is essential for both non-vegans and vegans. I think their intentions are good, and what they write is a useful text to refer to for people who know nothing about plant based food. I just think it should focus more on the importance of B12 (and explain why). I also think the text should focus more on making sure that a vegan diet (as opposed to what most people may assume) have healthy levels of nutrients that non-vegans often are low in, and make it crystal clear that while people who go vegan need to gather some new knowledge about their new diet, non-vegans in general seem to need to worry at least as much about nutrients than vegans, in spite of having had a good chance to learn about the diet they live on.

    A statement like "Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes" sounds good, and many would say the same thing about standard, non-veg*n diets, but it's too bad if women who plan to become pregnant read this and ins't informed about the special importance of folate (for non-vegans) and B12 (for vegans). I'm talking about the importance of having healthy levels of both these nutrients before a pregnancy is discovered here. For reasons discussed in several other threads, supplementing is sometimes needed for both vegans and non-vegans.

    Since this thread is going in circles already, I'm closing it now. Please start a new thread if needed...
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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